Ariana Martell and Arys Oakheart: A love story?

[apovsic]

I was just re-reading AFfC and came to the chapter of Ariana's imprisonment in a tower, where she has thoughts of Arys.I don't have an English book with me, so there will be no quotes, so there may be some mistakes in my train of thought.

First of all, let me tell that, despite many dislike him, I quite like Arys as a character(maybe not so much as a person). Deep inside he is,I think, a good man,who knows right from wrong and would do the right thing ... in his mind. He is also quite easy to manipulate and seems to try to do things that other people do, just so that he would blend in (for example, laughing at Barristan at his dismissal, when all others also laugh). We see all that in his POV chapter (which many believe that is completely unnecessary, but for me, beside other things, brought some emotional investment when he dies)  , when he is full of doubt about his relationship with Ariane, but then he is quite easily persuaded not just to continue their love affair, but also to "kidnap" Myrcella. So we can conclude that he was in love with Ariane.

On the other hand, there is Ariane. At first read I thought that she is just playing with him, like a pawn, to get Myrcella. She is basically just using her body for her goals (like Cersei with Kettleback). But her thoughts of Arys after her death("her brave knight" or smth along those lines) had me thinking, that she felt something more than that. Was it love? I doubt it because, really she thinks about him, but not nearly enough, if he was her love.

So  what do you think? Was Ariane in love with Arys? Or was she just fond of him as a person, not as a lover? Maybe she fell for him a bit during their affair, after initially she just wanted to use him?

[SeanF]

 

13 minutes ago, apovsic said:

I was just re-reading AFfC and came to the chapter of Ariana's imprisonment in a tower, where she has thoughts of Arys.I don't have an English book with me, so there will be no quotes, so there may be some mistakes in my train of thought.

First of all, let me tell that, despite many dislike him, I quite like Arys as a character(maybe not so much as a person). Deep inside he is,I think, a good man,who knows right from wrong and would do the right thing ... in his mind. He is also quite easy to manipulate and seems to try to do things that other people do, just so that he would blend in (for example, laughing at Barristan at his dismissal, when all others also laugh). We see all that in his POV chapter (which many believe that is completely unnecessary, but for me, beside other things, brought some emotional investment when he dies)  , when he is full of doubt about his relationship with Ariane, but then he is quite easily persuaded not just to continue their love affair, but also to "kidnap" Myrcella. So we can conclude that he was in love with Ariane.

On the other hand, there is Ariane. At first read I thought that she is just playing with him, like a pawn, to get Myrcella. She is basically just using her body for her goals (like Cersei with Kettleback). But her thoughts of Arys after her death("her brave knight" or smth along those lines) had me thinking, that she felt something more than that. Was it love? I doubt it because, really she thinks about him, but not nearly enough, if he was her love.

So  what do you think? Was Ariane in love with Arys? Or was she just fond of him as a person, not as a lover? Maybe she fell for him a bit during their affair, after initially she just wanted to use him?

 

Arianne did manipulate Ser Arys but she was (as far as she knew) in a desperate position.  She believed that she had been disinherited in favour of Quentyn, and that her father was not even prepared to allow her to make a good marriage.  Her future looked bleak.  Marriage to a minor lord at best, or exile, imprisonment, perhaps even execution, after her brother became Prince of Dorne, at worst.   So, she was determined to roll the dice, in order to secure her birthright, by crowning Myrcella.  That required the involvement of Ser Arys Oakheart.

However, Arianne lacks Cersei's cruelty and selfishness.  She does feel genuine remorse for Ser Arys's death, which she never wanted.  Indeed, she didn't want anyone to get hurt, although this was almost inevitable as a consequence of her actions.

[Ser Petyr Parker]

I found myself wondering about this. I think Arianne genuinely does care for Arys a lot, but it's quite noticeable that she doesn't give him much thought when locked up after he's killed. I think he's someone she likes, but she values him more as a piece in her plot than as a lover, and more as a lover than as a friend.

[fiatlux]

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

well, I'm not sure she would have that eager to seduce Meryn Trant or Boros Blount... she might have found other ways to get  them help her...

 

[apovsic]

Well she might not be eager, but desperate enough to try. Even though I don't know if it would work. I would say that it would be easier to manipulate Boros than Meryn. Also, if we're talking about changing KG's role, what would happen if Boros and Arys changed roles - would Arys gave Tommen away so easily? 

[Makk]

I think it was more a mild affection and regret that she used him to the cost of his life rather than love. I think it's clear that Arianne is a lot more empathetic than Cersei. I like her character and I think GRRM has built her up and tested her in a similar manner to Jon, Daenerys, and Tyrion. Not quite to the same degree, but I think she will play a significant role in the rest of the story. 

[naseridrl]

I think she had some affection for him  but not love. She certainly felt guilt and regret over how he died.  She's not a total cold hearted manipulator, they got to know each other during her seduction of him so she probably grew to like him or at least have some sort of fondness for him.  She certainly clearly didn't want him to die like he did.  She used him but I don't think she ever wanted anything bad to happen to him or anyone involved in her plans.  She doesn't seem cruel in anyway at all, she feels remorse over it.

[essosi watch]

Warning! This is just my own private crackpottery.

I think all these Arys and Areo storylines are here only because they are inversions/echoes/parallels of past events. I don't expect them to make much sense or have any exceptional depth. 

The titled chapters are Under the sea. 

Under the sea, the smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black.

In The Soiled Knight bubble we have these ingredients:

A princess, a knight from the Reach, a girl who would become a queen,  sexual relationship where one uses the other.

Inverse these and we would get:

A prince, a lady from Dorne (from Dorne bc in this chapter Arys muses how unlikely is for Oakheart even be in Dorne and how there is longtime enmity between Oakhearts and Dornishmen), a girl who was the Queen of love and beauty;  sexual relationship, probably one sided.

Throw these in a pot and you have a rebellion stew.

In The Princess in the Tower bubble we have:

The same princess unwillingly in a tower. Her father ignoring her and letting her stew in her own sauce. Servants wouldn't talk to her. Books are boring. She fasts until Areo Hotah brings her to her father.

Now imagine this:

The same prince as before, willingly in a tower, ignoring his father, letting him stew a bit. The prince wouldn't listen to servants nor lords who would try to impress him with feasts. You know, opposite of fast. He is more interested in books. Finally The Captain of Guards arrives and persuades the prince to meet his father. 

Sounds familiar?

So I would not expect the characters in titled chapters to act like the POVs we are used to bc they are the smoke bubbles botched to rise slowly to the surface from the inverted green and blue and black flames.

[Springwatch]

On 26/08/2017 at 5:14 PM, essosi watch said:

<snip> In The Princess in the Tower bubble we have:

The same princess unwillingly in a tower. Her father ignoring her and letting her stew in her own sauce. Servants wouldn't talk to her. Books are boring. She fasts until Areo Hotah brings her to her father.

Now imagine this:

The same prince as before, willingly in a tower, ignoring his father, letting him stew a bit. The prince wouldn't listen to servants nor lords who would try to impress him with feasts. You know, opposite of fast. He is more interested in books. Finally The Captain of Guards arrives and persuades the prince to meet his father. 

Sounds familiar?

So I would not expect the characters in titled chapters to act like the POVs we are used to bc they are the smoke bubbles botched to rise slowly to the surface from the inverted green and blue and black flames.

Love the idea of 'inverted' flame colours in Patchface - it goes well the snow that falls upward, and stuff like that.

I do see that Arianne and Rhaegar in their towers are an inverted pair (this looks good) - but I don't see why they should be paired. Maybe, as suggested, it's just there to emphasise that inversions and echoes are happening, but it could just be coincidence, because the image of the prince/ss in the tower is echoed round in so many variations. (Everyone has their tower moment - working out who they are? - and they come down flying or falling.)

So I don't think the inversions are the 'titled' chapters, but they might be the key to Patchface - the legends and heroes of old will come again, but inverted, unrecognisable.

[essosi watch]

1 hour ago, Springwatch said:

Love the idea of 'inverted' flame colours in Patchface - it goes well the snow that falls upward, and stuff like that.

I do see that Arianne and Rhaegar in their towers are an inverted pair (this looks good) - but I don't see why they should be paired. Maybe, as suggested, it's just there to emphasise that inversions and echoes are happening, but it could just be coincidence, because the image of the prince/ss in the tower is echoed round in so many variations. (Everyone has their tower moment - working out who they are? - and they come down flying or falling.)

So I don't think the inversions are the 'titled' chapters, but they might be the key to Patchface - the legends and heroes of old will come again, but inverted, unrecognisable.

I should clarify myself I don't say Rhaegar and Arianne are paired.  My Lady from Dorne is Ashara Dayne. Arys Oakheart is imo inversed and slightly changed version of Ashara, sister of Dornish Kingsguard. Arianne represents Rhaegar. This chapter throws some light on their relationship, most likely one-sided.