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Meera of Tarth

We had seen the javelin before...

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In this episode the KN kills poor Viserion with a spear, as if he was a competent javelin sportsman.

But this is not the first time we have seen this in Game of Thrones.

In season 6, episode 5, Meera Reed kills a White Walker with the same style, short distance

-Is it possible that the WW discovered this because they learnt from Meera? That would mean they learn not only from the human's errors but also from their triumphs, meaning that they are

competent at war, (we saw how they knew that dragons are valuable). SO my question is....are WWs really intelligent beings? How would they behave in the wars to come?

Because, on the one hand, we see they are defeated very easily, but from the other, they show war skills (especially the NK). Maybe the closer circle of the NK are the most intelligent ones?

-Could Meera return and teach the others this technique as a means of defeating the WWs (appart from swords, dragons, daggers). We have to take into account that bows and obisidian arrows, as well as spears, could be used effectively at large distance.

What are your thoughts on this?

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1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

-Could Meera return and teach the others this technique as a means of defeating the WWs (appart from swords, dragons, daggers). We have to take into account that bows and obisidian arrows, as well as spears, could be used effectively at large distance.

This technique? Launching a spear is one of the oldest gesture of mankind…  Meera kills a WW because the spear had a dragonglass blade, not because she knows  a technique…

I doubt the Unsullied or the wildlings need Meera to know how to throw a spear…

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Just now, Nowy Tends said:

This technique? Launching a spear is one of the oldest gesture of mankind…  Meera kills a WW because the spear had a dragonglass blade, not because she knows  a technique…

I doubt the Unsullied or the wildlings need Meera to know how to throw a spear…

but what does it tell us about the Intelligence of the wws? My take is that only the closest circle of the NK has military capable intelligent members. We saw that in Hardome. In this episode the WW showed almost no resistance to being killed and he was very likely there because the NK commanded him to be there. I don't know I it's possible that the show is giving us clues about they behavior in regards to the wars to come....how intelligent they really are and thus who are the military minds of the NK.

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3 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

 

In season 6, episode 5, Meera Reed kills a White Walker with the same style, short distance

Because, on the one hand, we see they are defeated very easily, but from the other, they show war skills (especially the NK). Maybe the closer circle of the NK are the most intelligent ones?

I haven't yet composed a full answer to if the WWs are adaptive beings, BUT your comment about their physical arrangement reminded me immediately of the spiral patterns we have seen before, most recently in the cave on Dragonstone.  I think those cave drawings are the first we have seen indicating that the children and man and the WWs experienced time and conflict together.  Looking at spirals, if the WW 'Captains' are in the tighter part of the spiral, that would be safer than the wights would be on the streaming tails. But have we seen the WWs or any other use of the spiral patterns? 

I had forgotten the Meera scene, ty for the reminder.

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Just now, lakin1013 said:

I haven't yet composed a full answer to if the WWs are adaptive beings, BUT your comment about their physical arrangement reminded me immediately of the spiral patterns we have seen before, most recently in the cave on Dragonstone.  I think those cave drawings are the first we have seen indicating that the children and man and the WWs experienced time and conflict together.  Looking at spirals, if the WW 'Captains' are in the tighter part of the spiral, that would be safer than the wights would be on the streaming tails. But have we seen the WWs or any other use of the spiral patterns? 

I had forgotten the Meera scene, ty for the reminder.

oh the spiral pattern, that's very interesting!

I had never interpreted it this way, but it could very well be.

I am a bit confused about their hierarchy Iirc in the first seasons we see how the WWs create new wws from the Craster's babies. Does anybody remember how many of them are there?

Also their physical appearance nmight be revealing. Now I only recall one type of ww /the long-haired type/ apart from the NK. Bit did we see other ones in Hardhome next to the NK?

 

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2 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

In this episode the KN kills poor Viserion with a spear, as if he was a competent javelin sportsman.

But this is not the first time we have seen this in Game of Thrones.

In season 6, episode 5, Meera Reed kills a White Walker with the same style, short distance

-Is it possible that the WW discovered this because they learnt from Meera? That would mean they learn not only from the human's errors but also from their triumphs, meaning that they are

competent at war, (we saw how they knew that dragons are valuable). SO my question is....are WWs really intelligent beings? How would they behave in the wars to come?

Because, on the one hand, we see they are defeated very easily, but from the other, they show war skills (especially the NK). Maybe the closer circle of the NK are the most intelligent ones?

-Could Meera return and teach the others this technique as a means of defeating the WWs (appart from swords, dragons, daggers). We have to take into account that bows and obisidian arrows, as well as spears, could be used effectively at large distance.

What are your thoughts on this?

Hi Meera!  :)

There's a precedent for killing a dragon (or two or three...) with a sharp white projectile in the books:

Quote

The Sworn Sword

"So close a thing . . . if Daemon had ridden over Gwayne Corbray and left him to his fate, he might have broken Maekar's left before Bloodraven could take the ridge. The day would have belonged to the black dragons then, with the Hand slain and the road to King's Landing open before them. Daemon might have been sitting on the Iron Throne by the time Prince Baelor could come up with his stormlords and his Dornishmen.

"The singers can go on about their hammer and their anvil, ser, but it was the kinslayer who turned the tide with a white arrow and a black spell. [Brynden Rivers]

It's weirwood magic:

Quote

ADWD - Brandon III

After that the glimpses came faster and faster, till Bran was feeling lost and dizzy. He saw no more of his father, nor the girl who looked like Arya, but a woman heavy with child emerged naked and dripping from the black pool, knelt before the tree, and begged the old gods for a son who would avenge her. Then there came a brown-haired girl slender as a spear who stood on the tips of her toes to kiss the lips of a young knight as tall as Hodor. A dark-eyed youth, pale and fierce, sliced three branches off the weirwood and shaped them into arrows. [Brandon Snow]

 

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1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

Hi Meera!  :)

There's a precedent for killing a dragon (or two or three...) with a sharp white projectile in the books:

It's weirwood magic:

 

INTERESTING!

so our greenseer could think of which weapons to use in the wars to come...he might suggest this kind to defat them especially now that we have wightViserion..?

btw I'm not good at family trees...who was Brandon Snow?

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Just now, Meera of Tarth said:

INTERESTING!

so our greenseer could think of which weapons to use in the wars to come...he might suggest this kind to defat them especially now that we have wightViserion..?

You mean Bran?  I'm not sure anymore what show-Bran's motivation is!  'Fire dragons' and 'wight/ice dragons' are probably killed with different weapons, white/ice and black/fire projectiles respectively.

Just now, Meera of Tarth said:

btw I'm not good at family trees...who was Brandon Snow?

He was Torrhen Stark's (the king who knelt's) bastard brother.  He wanted to kill Aegon's dragons at the Trident, instead of submitting to Aegon Targaryen and surrendering the north.  His brother, however, persuaded him to relent and treat with Aegon to forge a peace, upon which the Targaryen dominion over the seven kingdoms was based -- a peace which Aegon's ancestor Aerys broke by burning Rickard and strangling Brandon when he summoned them to King's Landing.

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6 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

You mean Bran?  I'm not sure anymore what show-Bran's motivation is!  'Fire dragons' and 'wight/ice dragons' are probably killed with different weapons, white/ice and black/fire projectiles respectively.

He was Torrhen Stark's (the king who knelt's) bastard brother.  He wanted to kill Aegon's dragons at the Trident, instead of submitting to Aegon Targaryen and surrendering the north.  His brother, however, persuaded him to relent and treat with Aegon to forge a peace, upon which the Targaryen dominion over the seven kingdoms was based -- a peace which Aegon's ancestor Aerys broke by burning Rickard and strangling Brandon when he summoned them to King's Landing.

yes, Bran!

Thanks!

btw...I was watching a video on theories....

and in the cave episode the WWs have spears!

it's basically their weapon!

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7 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

In this episode the KN kills poor Viserion with a spear, as if he was a competent javelin sportsman.

But this is not the first time we have seen this in Game of Thrones.

In season 6, episode 5, Meera Reed kills a White Walker with the same style, short distance

-Is it possible that the WW discovered this because they learnt from Meera? That would mean they learn not only from the human's errors but also from their triumphs, meaning that they are

competent at war, (we saw how they knew that dragons are valuable). SO my question is....are WWs really intelligent beings? How would they behave in the wars to come?

Because, on the one hand, we see they are defeated very easily, but from the other, they show war skills (especially the NK). Maybe the closer circle of the NK are the most intelligent ones?

-Could Meera return and teach the others this technique as a means of defeating the WWs (appart from swords, dragons, daggers). We have to take into account that bows and obisidian arrows, as well as spears, could be used effectively at large distance.

What are your thoughts on this?

Great, great thread!

I love discussions that make connections between seemingly disparate bits of information (and I think they are particularly well-suited to ASoIAF/GoT, cuz GRRM loaded up the books with little puzzles to be solved by connecting dots that are sometimes separated by many pages, involving matters which SEEM to be totally unconnected)

On this particular issue, yeah, I would love to see Meera return and play a big role in crossing off the WW/Others.

Spears and javelins are fine, but I especially liked your suggestion about the arrowheads.  (I THINK there were dragonglass arrowheads in the books, but haven't been used yet, and I can't recall if they are present in the show or not)

But oh yeah, I think they should have put dragonglass arrowheads into mass production at Dragonstone immediately, and then begun fitting them onto arrows.  Then bring on the longbowmen!!

(Of course, this sort of  talk makes me sad about Ygritte all over again, since she was a GREAT archer, and I really liked her a lot for other reasons, too.  She would have been perfect to lead the archer squads.  But hey, Arya could, too, she's got some skills and experience.  I believe this would be a great role for Arya in the final battle(s), but I think it's more likely she'll be using melee weapons)

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