What is the role of Gendry?

[sweetsunray]

The smithy scene was a reworked version of the smithy scene in aSoS:

"You're getting better"

"You too...uh... I mean you look good." (in the book she wears a dress and Gendry's eyes are opened and he says she looks nice)

ASOS smithy scene: They talk about swords then (Thoros' flamesword trick) and how Gendry wants to make one someday, 'cause he didn't get to finish the sword he was making in KL.

Here we have them talking weapons too: she shows him a drawing of what she wants him to make and he asks to see her Valyrian steel dagger.

ASOS smithy scene: It ends with a tickle fight, which he instigates by taunting her and the m'lady ritual, but she wins and she walks off in victory

Here: Gendry taunts her several times. This time she doesn't kick him, but flirtily tells him he doesn't know any other rich girls and she walks off in victory

Some of it is reversed, but that's mainly because the show made Gendry clueless of her child-crush on him in the show. She tagged after him, and he was the tall, strong, older boy protecting her, but still young enough to tease her and such. He thought of her as a child then. He's first startled at seeing her as young woman now, it gets awkward for a moment, then he tries to be businesslike, but tests the teasing ground as of-old, but the stupified stare he does when she flirts with him and moves away... She took him off-guard there. He has to check whether he had understood it correctly whether she had just flirted with him. And she sort of "dances" away, walking backwards, and you can almost see him think, "she is. she was flirting with me!"

Those two actors have chemistry.

And Dany better not have Drogon kill Gendry. Because if she does, Arya can go all faceless woman on her for all I care. I don't think that's what those shifts mean though. After all, Gendry is both times handling dragonglass: frozen fire or taming fire.

[sweetsunray]

On 4/17/2019 at 2:26 AM, Kajjo said:

Aryas arc is from sweet tomboy to toughened assassine. Yes, that's right. At least in the show we have no indication at all that Arya lost any of her humanity.

I never beleived she has lost her humanity, neither in the show nor in the books, nor will she. But she has crafted a personna to disconnect from her Arya-self when she is in assassin mode, which is logical, since killing or hurting a person ain't an easy thing to do if you are deeply empathic by nature. To kill she has to go in this shut-everything-off mode. That's what her time at Braavos taught her. She still does it though only to people she feels have proven they are rotten, such as with the sadistic pedophile KG and the Waif and with LF.

The problem is that she had to stay in this mode for such a long time, it becomes harder to naturally turn Arya back on. It hasn't changed her morals. Those are still Arya's. But she has grown more used to this no-one stealthy personna she wears like a cloak than to be Arya. She has to shed the cloak, and pack it in a backpack for when it's necessary only. There were glimmers of it to Sansa in S7, when she wasn't playing her who's lying game. I also think Sansa came to understand that Arya just needs time and home and family to accomplish that. Jon's hug helps. But it's far easier for her to shed the cloak with Gendry, exactly because she's less afraid of him rejecting her as a person for having a killing list and using Needle, and having a Valyrian steel dagger (somethign she didn't show Jon). He knows she used Needle. He knows she has a kill list. (As does the Hound.)

It's also a nice touch they had that reunion in the smithy. Gendry mentions how it's a nice castle, if it wasn't that "cold", and she reminds him to stay near the fires of the forge then to keep warm. It's not just about Gendry though. We literally see her warm up again. She stepped in icy cold (the Hound's "cold bitch") but she leaves smiling, half dancing and warm. It's not that she's cold on the inside truly. It's that she's allowing her warm self to show to loved ones.

On 4/17/2019 at 2:26 AM, Kajjo said:

But yes, we saw her flirting with Gendry, reliving some moments of the past, becoming a little bit the "rich noble girl" of the past. Maybe a nice feeling for her. 

I think it is.

[HouseLancaster]

On 4/10/2019 at 4:35 PM, Hippocras said:

I already responded to this objection. Did you read my posts above? Tywin did not say WHEN. So he invited Mott from Volantis way back when he was Hand to Aerys because he has wanted a Valyrian steel sword for a VERY long time. He has had the goal of buying or taking one for decades and always intended to rework it to make a Lannister sword.

Mott, having been brought over decades ago, had plenty of time to become established in KL.

I think this is reaching. Tywin's statement makes it sound like it wasn't Mott. And given how heavy handed D&D are with giving out information - I think this is the case.

Thus I also think its fair to say the Mott Valaryen Steel Gendry connection will not be part of the show (pretty sure he didn't know in the books either). Forging Dragon Glass, Arya and fighting is a lot in the final season for a recently popped up Gendry. He doesn't need to also make a magic weopn with 5 eps to go. Could be wrong though 

[Hippocras]

2 hours ago, HouseLancaster said:

I think this is reaching. Tywin's statement makes it sound like it wasn't Mott. And given how heavy handed D&D are with giving out information - I think this is the case.

Thus I also think its fair to say the Mott Valaryen Steel Gendry connection will not be part of the show (pretty sure he didn't know in the books either). Forging Dragon Glass, Arya and fighting is a lot in the final season for a recently popped up Gendry. He doesn't need to also make a magic weopn with 5 eps to go. Could be wrong though 

Let’s put it this way:

If Gendry wasn’t destined to actually use his blacksmith skills in a way that is very important to the story events, Martin would not have made the character a blacksmith. All he needed to be was Robert’s bastard, a boy, hiding by going with Yoren. There is nothing at all about his arc with Arya that required him to be a blacksmith. Martin chose the profession for him for a reason that is not just about Arya.

[joaozinm]

7 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I never beleived she has lost her humanity, neither in the show nor in the books, nor will she. But she has crafted a personna to disconnect from her Arya-self when she is in assassin mode, which is logical, since killing or hurting a person ain't an easy thing to do if you are deeply empathic by nature. To kill she has to go in this shut-everything-off mode. That's what her time at Braavos taught her. She still does it though only to people she feels have proven they are rotten, such as with the sadistic pedophile KG and the Waif and with LF.

The problem is that she had to stay in this mode for such a long time, it becomes harder to naturally turn Arya back on. It hasn't changed her morals. Those are still Arya's. But she has grown more used to this no-one stealthy personna she wears like a cloak than to be Arya. She has to shed the cloak, and pack it in a backpack for when it's necessary only. There were glimmers of it to Sansa in S7, when she wasn't playing her who's lying game. I also think Sansa came to understand that Arya just needs time and home and family to accomplish that. Jon's hug helps. But it's far easier for her to shed the cloak with Gendry, exactly because she's less afraid of him rejecting her as a person for having a killing list and using Needle, and having a Valyrian steel dagger (somethign she didn't show Jon). He knows she used Needle. He knows she has a kill list. (As does the Hound.)

It's also a nice touch they had that reunion in the smithy. Gendry mentions how it's a nice castle, if it wasn't that "cold", and she reminds him to stay near the fires of the forge then to keep warm. It's not just about Gendry though. We literally see her warm up again. She stepped in icy cold (the Hound's "cold bitch") but she leaves smiling, half dancing and warm. It's not that she's cold on the inside truly. It's that she's allowing her warm self to show to loved ones.

I think it is.

Lets not forget that she killed some freys and then cooked them into a pie and served them to the lord.

Being creepy to her own sister.

Slitting The throat of enemies while watching them die as the blood pours out.

Thats far from humanity even for medieval standards.

Now the show is selling human Arya, but after all of these... I Just cant buy it

 

[Kajjo]

6 hours ago, joaozinm said:

Thats far from humanity even for medieval standards.

Slitting throats is pretty common in seasons 1 to 7. It is one of the preferred methods for killing. It's a sensible method for a physically tiny girl.

"Being creepy" is not "far from humanity". What a weird combination. I guess many people are creepy from time to time. All far from humanity? 

I say it here again: We all love the series because it is not black-and-white, but with subtlety, complexity and nuances oft grey. Please do not mess this up by arguing black-and-white. Arya was never "far away from humanity" just because she killed for revenge like Polliver, Meryn Trant or the Freys.

Baking a pie from the body parts is a reference to a story told by Old Nan. It mocks Walder Frey with having violated the guest right. It fits perfectly to the story. Arya just demonstrates that she knows her literature and legends. It closes a circle and emphasises the importance of guest-and-host customs.

[HouseLancaster]

8 hours ago, Hippocras said:

Let’s put it this way:

If Gendry wasn’t destined to actually use his blacksmith skills in a way that is very important to the story events, Martin would not have made the character a blacksmith. All he needed to be was Robert’s bastard, a boy, hiding by going with Yoren. There is nothing at all about his arc with Arya that required him to be a blacksmith. Martin chose the profession for him for a reason that is not just about Arya.

Yes, he would!

1) Being a blacksmith is an easy way to mirror Robert's strength and use of hammer

2) if you read between the lines, there's more indication that he's destined to be a fighter than develop his smithin'

3) He had to do something, blacksmith is very obvious low born occupation 

4) I can think of a few other medieval films where the hero in waiting was a blacksmith (without ever crafting a magic weapon)

5) This isn't Gendry's story and it's OK if he doesn't contribute to the narrative in such an integral way. There's not much time left to introduce this concept of him mastering Valeryan steel. I'm not saying it won't happen but if you consider they might be developing his relationship to Arya, adding this function would mean a lot of screen time for a secondary character.

I don't mind if it happens, I just don't think there has been any evidence/hints thus far to suggest it (and in the books, he hadn't even made a sword yet).

[joaozinm]

55 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Slitting throats is pretty common in seasons 1 to 7. It is one of the preferred methods for killing. It's a sensible method for a physically tiny girl.

"Being creepy" is not "far from humanity". What a weird combination. I guess many people are creepy from time to time. All far from humanity? 

I say it here again: We all love the series because it is not black-and-white, but with subtlety, complexity and nuances oft grey. Please do not mess this up by arguing black-and-white. Arya was never "far away from humanity" just because she killed for revenge like Polliver, Meryn Trant or the Freys.

Baking a pie from the body parts is a reference to a story told by Old Nan. It mocks Walder Frey with having violated the guest right. It fits perfectly to the story. Arya just demonstrates that she knows her literature and legends. It closes a circle and emphasises the importance of guest-and-host customs.

You really dont find the slicing human parts baking and serving It to anyone something "odd" not day disgusting?

Few years early she would only swordfightbwith áudio and maybe stab some animal. 

Now the only coeherent course for her is being incapable of love.

Sorry, but you are not convencing me everything she has done is usual or normal.

A love story with gendry would bem Just too much. Use her to kill walkers and its fine

[Hippocras]

1 hour ago, HouseLancaster said:

Yes, he would!

1) Being a blacksmith is an easy way to mirror Robert's strength and use of hammer

2) if you read between the lines, there's more indication that he's destined to be a fighter than develop his smithin'

3) He had to do something, blacksmith is very obvious low born occupation 

4) I can think of a few other medieval films where the hero in waiting was a blacksmith (without ever crafting a magic weapon)

5) This isn't Gendry's story and it's OK if he doesn't contribute to the narrative in such an integral way. There's not much time left to introduce this concept of him mastering Valeryan steel. I'm not saying it won't happen but if you consider they might be developing his relationship to Arya, adding this function would mean a lot of screen time for a secondary character.

I don't mind if it happens, I just don't think there has been any evidence/hints thus far to suggest it (and in the books, he hadn't even made a sword yet).

It is not even just that he is a blacksmith though. It is also that he is connected to the BwB. Beric is an otherwise tertiary character who carries a sword that is not the least bit special except that he can light it on fire. It is pretty clear that Beric being the it and all of the flaming sword arc is just not enough - that is leading somewhere, and Gendry is in place to help it get there. By smithing.

 

[Kajjo]

13 hours ago, joaozinm said:

for her is being incapable of love

How do you come to that conclusion?! You misunderstood completely how they depicted Arya .

She felt something for Lady Crane and didn't want to kill her. She is human.

13 hours ago, joaozinm said:

everything she has done is usual or normal

No, because it's not. These are extreme times. She is an unusally well-trained assassine. Even a y young girl she had to kill and got used to it (boy when fleeing out of the Keep, soldier boasting about Red Wedding, bad man with heart stab, Polliver). Of course this made her somewhat callous to murder. Killing and torturing was all around her (Harrenhal). Mother and father died cruelly. What do you expect?

But to deduce that a girl experiencing violence and having to kill herself is not capable of love... that is just utter nonsense. Would you say the same to current refugees from war zones? Women being raped in Kosovo, escaping by killing their torturers? Child soldiers from Syria or Afrika? Really? Even most professional murderers are capable of love and as surprising as it may be for you have families, wifes, children they love. Your world is much to black-and-white.

13 hours ago, joaozinm said:

You really dont find the slicing human parts baking and serving It to anyone something "odd" not day disgusting?

Of course it is disgusting. As I told you, this relates to a legend about how to react to violated guest right. 

[Meera of Tarth]

so well.....Gendrya sailed. pheow. We knew it, it was written!

 

IT HAPPENED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sweetsunray]

44 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

so well.....Gendrya sailed. pheow. We knew it, it was written!

 

IT HAPPENED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yup we called it last season, right?

Now I know they seemed to set it up that Gendry has a high risk of dying next episode: he was proven to be protective of her, by delaying the making of her order, suggesting she'd hide in the crypts, his concern when he saw her physical scars, and Sansa telling Dany that men in love tend to do stupid things, and of course the have-sex-then-die trope. But I hope that throw-away line by the Hound about "this may well be a bloody wedding" when Beric shows up, Gendry telling her he's Robert's bastard and this bonding may be signs he's going to survive, so Arya has something to live for after. That Jenny of Oldstones song just reminded me how much ghosts Arya has.

[Error-504]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

Yup we called it last season, right?

Now I know they seemed to set it up that Gendry has a high risk of dying next episode: he was proven to be protective of her, by delaying the making of her order, suggesting she'd hide in the crypts, his concern when he saw her physical scars, and Sansa telling Dany that men in love tend to do stupid things, and of course the have-sex-then-die trope. But I hope that throw-away line by the Hound about "this may well be a bloody wedding" when Beric shows up, Gendry telling her he's Robert's bastard and this bonding may be signs he's going to survive, so Arya has something to live for after. That Jenny of Oldstones song just reminded me how much ghosts Arya has.

Well, at least Gendry is off Dany's hit list for the time being. 

[Meera of Tarth]

11 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Yup we called it last season, right?

Yes, for all those who were on denial! 

11 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Now I know they seemed to set it up that Gendry has a high risk of dying next episode: he was proven to be protective of her, by delaying the making of her order, suggesting she'd hide in the crypts, his concern when he saw her physical scars, and Sansa telling Dany that men in love tend to do stupid things, and of course the have-sex-then-die trope. But I hope that throw-away line by the Hound about "this may well be a bloody wedding" when Beric shows up, Gendry telling her he's Robert's bastard and this bonding may be signs he's going to survive, so Arya has something to live for after. That Jenny of Oldstones song just reminded me how much ghosts Arya has.

They also pointed out more than once if there was an afterwards in general, not to a particular character. I think that Arya's reaction when she knows about Gendry's origins must mean something. Is there an afterwards? And who is the first real ship that sails in this season? Them. With Arya's smile in the first seconds of the season.

[Lord Stannis-The True King]

12 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Yup we called it last season, right?

Now I know they seemed to set it up that Gendry has a high risk of dying next episode: he was proven to be protective of her, by delaying the making of her order, suggesting she'd hide in the crypts, his concern when he saw her physical scars, and Sansa telling Dany that men in love tend to do stupid things, and of course the have-sex-then-die trope. But I hope that throw-away line by the Hound about "this may well be a bloody wedding" when Beric shows up, Gendry telling her he's Robert's bastard and this bonding may be signs he's going to survive, so Arya has something to live for after. That Jenny of Oldstones song just reminded me how much ghosts Arya has.

Gendry is probably the least expendable character there. He is the LAST Baratheon. That means something. Whether you think he'll be legitimized or that he is the True born Baratheon heir he has a part to play as the last of his House.

[joaozinm]

His role was to put a baratheon inside arya's belly and then die like a hero!

[Lord Stannis-The True King]

We'll find out soon enough. However, I must note that in order for your statement to be acurate he would first need to either establish his biological parents as Robert and Cersei or be legitimized. Both seem unlikely to happen in the next episode. Otherwise Arya would just have a baby with the name Snow. Gendry dying would be the single most shocking thing that can happen in the next episode. Wiping one of the four main Noble Houses with little to no purpose.

[Larger than Average Finger]

1 hour ago, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

Gendry is probably the least expendable character there. He is the LAST Baratheon. That means something. Whether you think he'll be legitimized or that he is the True born Baratheon heir he has a part to play as the last of his House.

They just showed him having sex with a core character, he is not the only potential Baratheon. 

[Lord Stannis-The True King]

9 minutes ago, Larger than Average Finger said:

They just showed him having sex with a core character, he is not the only potential Baratheon. 

To whom are you referring? I am unaware of this theory.

[Larger than Average Finger]

15 minutes ago, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

To whom are you referring? I am unaware of this theory.

Same as the other comment, Arya is pregnant and at some point, he is legitimized posthumously or not.