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JMMapelwood

What is the role of Gendry?

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5 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Willing suspension of disbelief fucked like a Season 1 whore.

Seriously, can you imagine a scene from Seasons 1-4 where such cringe-worthy dank memery was allowed to reach the final cut? It's legitimately turning GoT into a joke, which some people think D&D are doing deliberately.

Eh, best to embrace the asshattery at this point.

I don't think D&D are doing it on purpose, but if people said they just don't care anymore and are just rushing toward an end and trying to make as many feminism points as possible, break twitter moments and whatever else is popular in today's culture, I would believe that.
Wouldn't surprise me if in season 8 they have a guy go to jail for sexually assaulting a female and all of the town's females can just torture him for days, because there are no repercussions for females on the show anymore...

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9 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

trying to make as many feminism points as possible

Worst thing is, if you check sites like the Fandomentals, even they, relatively die-hard feminists, can see how shallow their attempts at doing this are, and actually hate GoT more because of it.

As they put it, Weisseroff has a 'magical disappearing patriarchy', which exists when they want a SHOCKING™ rape scene or five, but doesn't when they want Lyanna Mormont to be sassy or Arya to be BADASS™. The Fandomentals, to their credit, distinguish depiction and endorsement and say something along the lines of 'If you're gonna depict patriarchy, do all sides; like Arya saying she doesn't want to be wife to a lord and Ned going 'that's nice, but you're going to' in a caring fatherly tone as well as all the edgy rape shit'.

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12 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Worst thing is, if you check sites like the Fandomentals, even they, relatively die-hard feminists, can see how shallow their attempts at doing this are, and actually hate GoT more because of it.

As they put it, Weisseroff has a 'magical disappearing patriarchy', which exists when they want a SHOCKING™ rape scene or five, but doesn't when they want Lyanna Mormont to be sassy or Arya to be BADASS™. The Fandomentals, to their credit, distinguish depiction and endorsement and say something along the lines of 'If you're gonna depict patriarchy, do all sides; like Arya saying she doesn't want to be wife to a lord and Ned going 'that's nice, but you're going to' in a caring fatherly tone as well as all the edgy rape shit'.

Did Ned say that in the books?

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21 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Did Ned say that in the books?

Yeah, and he did in Season 1, despite him also humouring her swordplay (in the books he mentally notes it as 'just a phase', more or less, but cares about his daughter's happiness). The Fandomentals seem quite fond of the earlier seasons and the books, mainly because they're consistent with what prejudices exist and how true they are.

Along with the magical disappearing patriarchy, they also take issue with how they treat the Dornish; namely, the books have it so the Dornish have this stereotype, and while Oberyn sticks to some, he notably deviates. The show did Oberyn justice in some sense, but really made him a Dornish stereotype. In the later books, however, the Dornish are shown to... have their own wills and whims, like anyone anywhere in the world, and aren't this 'fuck and fight, fight and fuck' culture people stereotype them as.

In the show? 'LOL ALL DORNISH WOMEN ARE HORNY WANNABE MEN WITH NICE TITS JUST LIKE THE STEREOTYPES THIS IS EMPOWERMENT AMIRITE?'

As I said, Fandomentals is sometimes too gung-ho in the 'calling everything sexist' camp, but underneath that are some pretty darn cogent criticisms.

Edited by Beardy the Wildling

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19 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Yeah, and he did in Season 1, despite him also humouring her swordplay (in the books he mentally notes it as 'just a phase', more or less, but cares about his daughter's happiness). The Fandomentals seem quite fond of the earlier seasons and the books, mainly because they're consistent with what prejudices exist and how true they are.

Along with the magical disappearing patriarchy, they also take issue with how they treat the Dornish; namely, the books have it so the Dornish have this stereotype, and while Oberyn sticks to some, he notably deviates. The show did Oberyn justice in some sense, but really made him a Dornish stereotype. In the later books, however, the Dornish are shown to... have their own wills and whims, like anyone anywhere in the world, and aren't this 'fuck and fight, fight and fuck' culture people stereotype them as.

In the show? 'LOL ALL DORNISH WOMEN ARE HORNY WANNABE MEN WITH NICE TITS JUST LIKE THE STEREOTYPES THIS IS EMPOWERMENT AMIRITE?'

As I said, Fandomentals is sometimes too gung-ho in the 'calling everything sexist' camp, but underneath that are some pretty darn cogent criticisms.

I would have to read it to have a better opinion. I think even within a patriarchal society different characters can have different opinions on things and attitudes can change over time provided a reason is being given for the change and nothing is inconsistent. 

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29 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

I would have to read it to have a better opinion. I think even within a patriarchal society different characters can have different opinions on things and attitudes can change over time provided a reason is being given for the change and nothing is inconsistent. 

It's more when one culture is shown to value one thing, then immediately discard it later (like Sam's sister being forced to marry an older man and complaining about it one scene, only for her mother to boldly tell off the man who threatened to kill his son for not adhering to gender roles scot-free, or the Dothraki valuing Vaes Dothrak as a holy place and mistrusting maegi, before falling down and bowing a maegi, treacherous ex-khaleesi who burnt down their holy place).

Here's an example of their articles, you'll see what I mean about them being... gung-ho with their feminism at times.

https://www.thefandomentals.com/game-of-thrones-101/

However, their point on the 'magical disappearing partriarchy' is a larger point on why the setting as a whole is bloody inconsistent, which doesn't bode well overall.

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Heaven forbid that a 17 year old girl explores her feelings and sexual desires for the hot guy she cares for.  That's  not normal  behavior for a teenager.

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 (like Sam's sister being forced to marry an older man and complaining about it one scene, only for her mother to boldly tell off the man who threatened to kill his son for not adhering to gender roles scot-free, or the Dothraki valuing Vaes Dothrak as a holy place and mistrusting maegi, before falling down and bowing a maegi, treacherous ex-khaleesi who burnt down their holy place).

Randyll's daughter has a different status than his wife, being forced to marry doesn't automatically mean you have no other rights at all, and a patriarchal society is very much capable of valuing women's safety more than men's (making it, for instance, more difficult for Randyll to kill a son for not being a man, than a woman) - it depends on the specific rules, amount of chivalry etc.

Same with the Dothraki thing - some of them already decided to follow her at the end of S1, and a religious culture isn't generally supposed to treat all "magic" the same; but depending on where it supposedly comes from.


Some people on here apparently can't tell between 1) two pieces of information contradicting each other, and 2) a piece of information missing altogether.

Both these instances lack information about the respective cultures and motivations, there's no way to tell either way.

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On 8/25/2017 at 1:08 AM, JMMapelwood said:

Why did they go to all the trouble saving an at first sight unimportant character? What difference will  Gendry's life  make in long run? Your thoughts please!

Fan service. They even worked the "still rowing" line in there.

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30 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Fan service. They even worked the "still rowing" line in there.

Fan service for that yes, but he would not be back just for a few random scenes, he must have an important role in the endgame

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47 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Fan service. They even worked the "still rowing" line in there.

Yeah, that would've been cool if it also made sense for Davos to say that in-universe - but I don't think it really did, so it was a weird 4th wall breaking moment.

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1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Fan service for that yes, but he would not be back just for a few random scenes, he must have an important role in the endgame

They brought him back and he helped Jon.  That must mean something.  

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23 minutes ago, goldenmaps said:

They brought him back and he helped Jon.  That must mean something.  

They also made sure that he introduced himself to Jon and they got along since the first moment as well!

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4 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Fan service for that yes, but he would not be back just for a few random scenes, he must have an important role in the endgame

Eh, I really don't think they thought it through beyond giving a fangasm moment and someone else to add to the Westerosi Avengers.

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38 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Eh, I really don't think they thought it through beyond giving a fangasm moment and someone else to add to the Westerosi Avengers.

no, he is not just back so as that the Avengers team have seven members instead of six in one episode.

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10 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

no, he is not just back so as that the Avengers team have seven members instead of six in one episode.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I really just picture D&D sitting at a table mulling over needing one more person for the team, then a lightbulb flashing over their head thinking of Gendry and how the fans would love them over it. :P Maybe they'll make him Lord of the Stormlands or something, but I can't see Dany being interested in any Baratheon restoration given what happened.

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11 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I really just picture D&D sitting at a table mulling over needing one more person for the team, then a lightbulb flashing over their head thinking of Gendry and how the fans would love them over it. :P Maybe they'll make him Lord of the Stormlands or something, but I can't see Dany being interested in any Baratheon restoration given what happened.

It's obvious that they focus more on stupid missions and polar bears that the actual plot, but they had a plan for him due to the original/canon ending; he has an important role to play in the books), it's just that season 7 was basically filler and they decided that they could bring him back then. They had also said that they wanted to bring him back earlier but it didn't fit the plot at that point.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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46 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

It's obvious that they focus more on stupid missions and polar bears that the actual plot, but they had a plan for him due to the original/canon ending; he has an important role to play in the books), it's just that season 7 was basically filler and they decided that they could bring him back then. They had also said that they wanted to bring him back earlier but it didn't fit the plot at that point.

Yes, the timing of season 7 to bring him back reinforces the lack of an overall plan to me. It's pretty much all action sequences and fan service with little build up. Teleportation is a thing, there aren't many consequences, and the only build up was really towards the obligatory climax. Which sadly will likely be more eye candy and less substance as well. I mentioned on the book board before maybe Gendry's learned to work Valyrian steel at some point and that could be useful to have around. Other than that all he brings to the table is his Baratheon blood(which doesn't qualify this uneducated peasant to be a lord of anything) and the ability to hit things with his hammer.

Edited by Lord Lannister

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4 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

or marrying Arya or something else we don't know yet.

Maybe. Hard to see Arya settling down though. He could be Azor Ahai, reborn amidst the salt of rowing blackwater bay and the smoke of the street of steel. :P

Edited by Lord Lannister

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