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What is the role of Gendry?

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10 minutes ago, goldenmaps said:

I think Gendry will make a great ruler.  Especially with Arya since those two complement each other and work well together.  And both are better than the last few rulers of Westeros.  At least they care about justice and about smallfolk.  But, I highly doubt that Gendry will be the ruler of Westeros.  It seems that the show and books are heading to a Targ restoration. 

My tinfoil hat wild speculation about Gendry is that he will be the Lord of the Stormlands AND Arya will be the ruler of the Riverlands and that they will rule both kingdoms together as equals.

I doubt it as well, but it can still happen, and it  would certainly be great. And yes, Arya would be  agreat ruler as well.

I'm also inclined to think that if the continent is still standing on by the end of the series, he'd possibly be Lord of the StormLands.

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I have a tinfoil hat theory on Gendry's mother.  All we know about her is that she died when he was young, she worked in a tavern, sang to him and has yellow hair.  And I'm not going with Cersei being his mother because Gendry's claim to the throne is through Robert.  And Robert's claim to the throne is through his grandmother who was a Targ.  And both Jon and Dany have a stronger blood claim to the throne even if Gendry is trueborn.

But what if Gendry has a stronger claim to the throne through his mother

I've been wondering lately why Varys saved him in the first place.  He didn't need him anymore in his schemes.  He served his purpose in showing that Cersei's children were not Robert's children.  And Varys was deeply involved in getting Gendry his apprenticeship in the first place and he did it in disguise and not as a representative of the crown. 

It's been speculated before that Varys is a Blackfyre.  And it's been speculated before that Aegon in the books is also a Blackfyre.  What if Gendry's mother is a Blackfyre.  Varys and Illyrio it seems planned to put Aegon on the throne.  At the time Gendry was conceived Westeros has been through a civil war with Robert on the throne.  And it's been known that Robert will sleep with almost anyone.  And it would be easy to get a Blackfyre in Robert's bed especially if he didn't know that she is a Blackfyre.  And the plan was probably for Gendry to be a girl and to marry Aegon when they were both older and once Aegon secured the throne.  The Blackfyre than would have the King and Queen be Blackfyres with Aegon supposedly being the son of the popular Rhaegar and Gendry being the daughter of the rebels.  It would have seemed easy because the only other claimant to the throne would be Viserys who is the son of the Mad King.

Except i think this plan failed because Gendry turned out to be a boy and Dany was conceived.  So Varys and Illyrio turned their attentions to Dany.  Also, Gendry would still be family to Varys and Varys would want to make sure that he will be ok.  And he could still be useful to Varys and his schemes especially if Aegon did not work out.

If Gendry is descended from the Blackfyres that would mean his blood claim to the throne would also be stronger and will also make him more of a contender for the Iron Throne. 

Of course this is all pure supposition and Gendry's mother could just be somebody who just worked in a tavern.  But, wouldn't it be cool if Gendry has more royal blood. 

It also seems also Henry Tudor-ish in a way because Henry Tudor had a stronger claim to the throne through his mother who was descended from the Beauforts who were a bastard line of the Lancastrian dynasty. 

I still don't think that Gendry will be king, but it will be interesting if he has more royal blood than he previously thought.  And if Varys is a relative to Gendry he can learn more about his mother which would be nice.

I still think that Gendry and Arya will be good rulers.  They both lived as smallfolk and probably are the most sympathetic to the needs.

 

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Since there are only 6 episodes, some of the Gendry theories just cannot be introduced, developed, and wrapped up in so short a time. I do think Martin wrote his characters so that we could see a better future and fairer thinking for Westeros.  Arya, Brienne, Dany, and Lyana M. are pushing against the mold for what women can do.  Gendry and Jon show us the strength of bloodlines, even while being a bastard. Tyrion shows the value of all life.  The point is that we should be left with the strongest, most clear-eyed rulers and each family should be represented.  That gives us Sansa, Tyrion, Gendry, and one yet-to-be named Targaryen.

 

Note: The speculation into Gendry's mother being other than Cersei is fascinating, but more for the books.  I would vote that Gendry comes from the same lineage as Val.  See http://branvras.free.fr/HuisClos/Queen.html  for a discussion of guesses about Val's lineage.

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On 8/25/2017 at 8:33 AM, Jaehaerys Stark said:

I think what we are forgetting here is that a royal decree trumps all, right?  Was Ramsay documented somewhere as being Roose Bolton's bastard?  I don't remember having seen that anywhere.  Yet, Joffrey issued a decree legitimizing Ramsay, just so Ramsay could kill his father and become Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, albeit temporarily.  Jon Arryn, Ned and Joffrey all knew about Gendry, so it was either written down somewhere, or accepted as truth.  Either way, if the reigning king/queen decrees that Gendry is legit and a lord, then he's legit and a lord/warden. With Robert being dead along with his "heirs", and Stannis and Renly dead without living heirs,  who is around to contest it or say otherwise?

Well, we have several witnesses to the truth of Gendry, and it all comes back to Jon, and he will be the one to legitimize him. Arya knew long ago when the King's men were hunting for him, so her word would be enough. Then we have the brotherhood, along with Melissandre, and then Davos, who is Jon's main adviser. 

As for Gendry's purpose, he has several. He's a familiar and likable face coming back and has a very useful trade being a blacksmith, who also was taught by one of the last blacksmiths who knew how to forge and work with Valeryian steel. This is a talent that will be needed for the fight against the white walkers.

And then, his rapport he forged with Arya, and the possibility that King Robert's wish of his son marrying Ned's daughter will come true after all, but it just wasn't the pairing he had in mind. Like others have said, Arya has gone down a dark path where she takes pleasure in killing and torturing people, and I think it will be Gendry to bring her back to see the light. 

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On 9/4/2017 at 6:38 AM, Johannes Nilsson said:

I mean that in order for Arya to mature and grow up, Sandor is better then Gendry. Gender might reinforce those parts of Arya that doesn't need to be reinforced like hot-headded and vengeance searching.

While I do agree with you that Sandor will have a major impact on Arya's point of view, it will be more from the eyes of a father than a lover. But, we are forgetting about someone else she was close to and loves very much who kills people, but does not like it. Jon. I think it will be a combination of Jon, her closest sibling, Sandor, the closest thing she has as a father that is living, and Gendry, who I think is her true soul mate, that will help her out of her darkness.

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On 9/6/2017 at 4:01 AM, MrJay said:

Love interest for Arya. 

 

Let's face it, 6 episodes is not enough to be very creative. They could have Gendry, Daeny and Jon have a conflict over the throne. Toss on Tyrion having love for family (cause he is a loyal lannister and never bets against family) and you have a whole new can of worms that can easily fill a season or two. 

 

But I don't see it in them. Gendry will bow out of tye game and at best be new lord of storms end with Arya as his lady. 

 

I'm okay with that. Not my first choice, but I like the kid. He reminds me of a young Robert. So long as Arya doesn't run off with anyone and kick off a new rebellion, all will be well. 

 

I just want to point out. The fact that we see this coming a mile away is something that game of thrones is supposed to NOT be known for. 

Well, it could go a much harsher path. Arya sees Gendry and is in love with him, but he's not in love with her, but does fall in love with Sansa, and that fuels the jealousy she had for her sister even more. She knows she is in a dangerous position with her hot head, so she leaves Winterfel and goes to King's Landing to finish her list.

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On 9/29/2017 at 8:26 AM, Фейсал said:

What makes you think Dany is politically savvy? all her decisions in Essos were boneheaded; and if not for her council and consorts she'd have likely made even bigger missteps. She sees things in black and white; as evident by her senselessly killing the Tarlys.

I think legitimizing Gendry would be a big character moment for her - overcoming all the stories/biases Viserys fed her as a child about the Usurper and her hate for the Baratheons for the greater good. Giving the Stormlands an heir who would be indebted to her would certainly help her gain their allegiance.

I agree with this as well. Jon was already challenged with this decision about returning lands to families who have fought against him and the Starks. Sansa wanted to kick them out, but he did not, and in doing so, he gained new allies that were originally against him, and force the people to work together and support eachother, not turn on eachother. Unity is needed, not more division.

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On 8/27/2017 at 1:09 AM, Meera of Tarth said:

I like the Exodus idea, and I think it would be an amazing ending for her arc.. I have thought about it since Arya said that line of "West of Westeros" in season 6 with Lady Crane, though....I still think it's too beautiful for it to be true.

Well, maybe it's too beautiful, but I still believe in it. That would make a lot of sense. Arya survives, but without an important position after all. I cannot figure Arya dying (being GRRM favorite), nor being queen ("that's not me") ans season 7 surely did not prepare us for a matured queen-like Arya. She stil is knight-ish, tomboy-ish.

With regards to Gendry, I believe he will not have an important role, probably being on the side of Jon for the war. Maybe Gendry's ability as Smith wil be important? Forging any special sword? Who knows.

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7 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Well, maybe it's too beautiful, but I still believe in it. That would make a lot of sense. Arya survives, but without an important position after all. I cannot figure Arya dying (being GRRM favorite), nor being queen ("that's not me") ans season 7 surely did not prepare us for a matured queen-like Arya. She stil is knight-ish, tomboy-ish.

I think so, it's one of the fitting possibilities in terms of narrative. And since it's possible that Westeros gets destroyed, that could be.

As for her line, you are right, but it's also true that in the books there are lots of Queen References to her as well.

I think that Arya's fate is quite.....difficult to guess IMO.

7 hours ago, Kajjo said:

With regards to Gendry, I believe he will not have an important role, probably being on the side of Jon for the war. Maybe Gendry's ability as Smith wil be important? Forging any special sword? Who knows.

Well that  could definitely be a possibility. And even if it was not important in the books, I'm sure the showrunners could invent a little bit of that. Not sure, though. There is an answer from Martin in the SSM saying that he thought that the question of him forging swords would be interesting.

I also think he could have the role of a warrior. @sweetsunray has made really good essays on that regard.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/30/2018 at 9:07 AM, Kajjo said:

Well, maybe it's too beautiful, but I still believe in it. That would make a lot of sense. Arya survives, but without an important position after all. I cannot figure Arya dying (being GRRM favorite), nor being queen ("that's not me") ans season 7 surely did not prepare us for a matured queen-like Arya.

Maisie Williams said something about how after reading the S8 scripts she had to go back to Season 1 to understand Arya's arc, to see it as having a beginning, middle, and an end. To me, anyway, that seems to imply that Arya's ending came as a surprise to Maisie and was something that she really had to think about to make sense of. So if we take Maisie's statements at face value, I think we can expect an ending that may seem like a significant departure for Arya given everything that came from Seasons 1 through 7, and so endgames like Arya Goes Wandering or Arya Goes West of Westeros seem less likely, since those have been hinted at.

Seasons 1 through 7 seem to position Sansa as the endgame Lady of Winterfell--Season 7 even ends with Arya saying that she doesn't mind Sansa being LOW and that she was never going to be a lady, etc. etc.--so maybe the big shocker for Maisie was that Arya ends up with Winterfell and as "a lady in a castle" after all.

Edited by Newstar

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35 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Maisie Williams said something about how after reading the S8 scripts she had to go back to Season 1 to understand Arya's arc

Well, I like Maisie and particularly how she plays Arya, but I believe she once stated that she didn't read the books and, generally, I have the perception that Maisie is not so tremendously into the wider storyline, but was more focused on her badass character. No offense implied. Arya is one of my favorite characters of the books and also of the first four seasons.

38 minutes ago, Newstar said:

had to go back to Season 1 to understand Arya's arc, to see it as having a beginning, middle, and an end

Well, what we know from the first season is the famous qoute "It's not me.", mirrored with Nymeria in season 7 "It's not you." So going back there could mean Arya does not see herself as lady or queen, but as knight or adventurer. Of course, the opposite could be her fate, ending up in somehow an important position. Everything is possible. I still don't like this scenario.

The hint "West of Westeros" is only one single hint and I still believe it makes a lot of sense.

41 minutes ago, Newstar said:

so maybe the big shocker for Maisie was that Arya ends up with Winterfell and as "a lady in a castle" after all

Yes, could be. Queen of the North? Hmmm... strange feeling with this. But again, not impossible.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Well, I like Maisie and particularly how she plays Arya, but I believe she once stated that she didn't read the books and, generally, I have the perception that Maisie is not so tremendously into the wider storyline, but was more focused on her badass character. No offense implied. Arya is one of my favorite characters of the books and also of the first four seasons.

Well, what we know from the first season is the famous qoute "It's not me.", mirrored with Nymeria in season 7 "It's not you." So going back there could mean Arya does not see herself as lady or queen, but as knight or adventurer. Of course, the opposite could be her fate, ending up in somehow an important position. Everything is possible. I still don't like this scenario.

The hint "West of Westeros" is only one single hint and I still believe it makes a lot of sense.

Yes, could be. Queen of the North? Hmmm... strange feeling with this. But again, not impossible.

I agree that the bit about "West of Westeros" is a random line unless it's foreshadowing. Ditto for Tyrion's winery dream stated in the same season. And to be fair, an endgame where Arya leaves Winterfell to go wandering again (either to Essos or west of Westeros) would not be some insane departure from the books; Book Arya has toyed with such ideas before.

What gives me pause in the show is that after the episode aired with the Nymeria scene, Bryan Cogman said this:

Quote

Arya and Nymeria do and don’t have the connection they’ve always had. In the end, they’re both lone wolves. They can’t go back to the way things were. And that might be foreshadowing for Arya too.

If it really were foreshadowing for Arya's end, would they really come out and say it? I know the writers are obvious, but that seems a bridge too far even for them. This doesn't seem to be a reference to Season 7, either, since Arya ends it settled in at Winterfell and having made her peace with Sansa, hardly a "lone wolf."

Edited by Newstar

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43 minutes ago, Newstar said:

And to be fair, an endgame where Arya leaves Winterfell to go wandering again (either to Essos or west of Westeros) would not be some insane departure from the books; Book Arya has toyed with such ideas before.

Agreed. This is the way I see it (and like it), but of course it is all speculation.

44 minutes ago, Newstar said:

In the end, they’re both lone wolves.

Yes, and while "the pack survives" play a major role in season 7, Arya still does not seem to be any kind of "second Lady of Winterfell", but simple Arya, the sister. Sansa is Lady of Winterfell and I think I remember a line of Arya along Sansa being better suited to be Lady of Winterfell.

It would conclude a kind of tragic circle if Arya ends up being Queen what she never wished to be. And if that happens, Sansa would have do die? What kind of other solution could there be if Arya would have an important position in the end?

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or she could rnd up vring a lady married to a Lord....but ruling his castle.

who coulf be a potential Lord for her? No One else but Gendry.

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19 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

or she could rnd up vring a lady married to a Lord....but ruling his castle.

 

She could be Lady/Queen without having a spouse. Daenerys could have been queen without joining up with Jon. Cersei is queen without spouse.

 

19 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

 who coulf be a potential Lord for her? No One else but Gendry.

Yes, the only one ever hinted at. Still, Arya doesn't touch me as the romantic girl, nor does the current situation gives rise to falling in love. But, yes, it's not impossible, just unlikely. For me this sounds quite a lot like fan-fiction.

Do you see Sansa dying?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Kajjo said:

She could be Lady/Queen without having a spouse. Daenerys could have been queen without joining up with Jon. Cersei is queen without spouse.

Yes, I agree; but I was referring to somehting previously said in the show/books, that was what was being commented above.

 

Quote

Yes, the only one ever hinted at. Still, Arya doesn't touch me as the romantic girl, nor does the current situation gives rise to falling in love. But, yes, it's not impossible, just unlikely. For me this sounds quite a lot like fan-fiction.

Do you see Sansa dying?

But she doens't have to be a romantic girl to fall in love. She would not stop being who she is, it would be just another part of her human nature...

I don't think Sansa will die. I think all the remaining Starks will survive. If someone had to die, it would be Jon. 

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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22 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I don't think Sansa will die. I think all the remaining Starks will survive. If someone had to die, it would be Jon. 

I agree, I expect Arya and Sansa to live, but Jon to die. I don't really see how Jon could make it and what position he should have afterwards. He was resurrected for a purpose and will most probably fulfill it by dying.

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1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

I agree, I expect Arya and Sansa to live, but Jon to die. I don't really see how Jon could make it and what position he should have afterwards. He was resurrected for a purpose and will most probably fulfill it by dying.

Yeah well, I could see him living outside of the politics as well. But if someone had to die, it would be him...

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On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 12:26 PM, Kajjo said:

Still, Arya doesn't touch me as the romantic girl, nor does the current situation gives rise to falling in love. 

You don't have to be a "romantic girl" to want or have love. Grey Worm doesn't strike anybody as a "romantic man", but he still found love. If it's going to be anybody it probably would be Gendry. 

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