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What is the role of Gendry?

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8 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Is he? I believe, he isn't, at least not in the show.

Tywin Lannister explains to Jamie that he brought a Volantene blacksmith to King's Landing to reforge the Valyrian steel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCItXEFnen0

That scene doesn't actually say WHEN Tywin invited him over. I agree the show hasn't made much about the connection between Gendry and Mott the forger of the swords, but book learning via Sam is no doubt going to play a role in the production of new weapons as well. The show will likely just emphasize that aspect.

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2 minutes ago, Hippocras said:

I agree the show hasn't made much about the connection between Gendry and Mott the forger of the swords

In the show Mott (more or less clearly) is not the forger of Oathkeeper. Mott is well known in King's Landing and Tywin explains he "invited a blacksmith from Volantis". This does not at all sound like he used the well-established blacksmith of King's Landing.

Do you believe Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail will be reforged into Ice? I don't believe that. I think they will be happy to have as many good warriors with Valyrian weapons they can get. At least for the great war. 

Some "reforging of Lightbringer" is quite probably, I agree. It has been mentioned in the show, But why does it have to be Ice?

The important part of the "forging" seems to be quenching it in the heart of a loved one. It doesn't say the the sword itself is ancestral or Valyrian or whatever.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

In the show Mott (more or less clearly) is not the forger of Oathkeeper. Mott is well known in King's Landing and Tywin explains he "invited a blacksmith from Volantis". This does not at all sound like he used the well-established blacksmith of King's Landing.

Do you believe Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail will be reforged into Ice? I don't believe that. I think they will be happy to have as many good warriors with Valyrian weapons they can get. At least for the great war. 

Some "reforging of Lightbringer" is quite probably, I agree. It has been mentioned in the show, But why does it have to be Ice?

The important part of the "forging" seems to be quenching it in the heart of a loved one. It doesn't say the the sword itself is ancestral or Valyrian or whatever.

Again, it doesn't say when.

My point is, Tywin might have invited him over quite a long time ago. His ambition, for a very long time was to obtain a Valyrian steel sword for his family. He no doubt always had the intention of reworking it, once obtained, to make a special new Lannister sword. That's enough time for Mott to establish himself.

Where in the show does Tobho Mott get mentioned by name at all? Certainly the show gives him no back story.

Edited by Hippocras

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1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

Is he? I believe, he isn't, at least not in the show.

Tywin Lannister explains to Jamie that he brought a Volantene blacksmith to King's Landing to reforge the Valyrian steel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCItXEFnen0

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tobho_Mott

A Storm of Swords

At Lord Tywin Lannister's request Tobho melts Eddard's Valyrian steel sword, Ice, to forge two new swords. The armorer admits that he tried to color the swords the crimson of House Lannister, but despite his spells the steel darkened to grey and red patterns.[4]

One sword is given to King Joffrey I Baratheon, who names it Widow's Wail.[8] The other is given to Ser Jaime Lannister, who names it Oathkeeper when he gives it in turn to Brienne of Tarth.[9]

 

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1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

In the show Mott (more or less clearly) is not the forger of Oathkeeper. Mott is well known in King's Landing and Tywin explains he "invited a blacksmith from Volantis". This does not at all sound like he used the well-established blacksmith of King's Landing.

Do you believe Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail will be reforged into Ice? I don't believe that. I think they will be happy to have as many good warriors with Valyrian weapons they can get. At least for the great war. 

Some "reforging of Lightbringer" is quite probably, I agree. It has been mentioned in the show, But why does it have to be Ice?

The important part of the "forging" seems to be quenching it in the heart of a loved one. It doesn't say the the sword itself is ancestral or Valyrian or whatever.

It's inconclusive on the show, But Tywin said he invited him over, this could have happened years about when Tywin was Hand for the mad king. It wouldn't make much sense otherwise, not only would he have to bring the smith over, the smith would have to set up a forge, etc etc. Pretty pricey when one was already here. 

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https://iceandfire.fandom.com/wiki/Valyrian_steel

Only the greatest weaponsmiths can reforge swords from existing Valyrian steel, but the secret of creating such an alloy was apparently lost with Valyria, making those remaining weapons highly treasured and extremely rare. The blacksmiths of Qohor claim to know how to reforge Valyrian steel, and Tobho Mott did reforge Ice at the request of the Lannisters, in King's Landing.

 

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

and Tobho Mott did reforge Ice at the request of the Lannisters

In the show this is not true as far as we know.

The cited wiki is bad and unreliable.

34 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

t's inconclusive on the show, But Tywin said he invited him over

Well, all know Tobo Mott. If it was him, Tywin would have simply said it. He told Jamie he invited on of only three living smiths to reforge the Ice. This sounds different than "I had Mott reforge them".

Of course, if can be true in the books. The westeros wiki is probabyl a reliable source, giving citations.

Edited by Kajjo

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Posted (edited)

Actually the show audience doesn't really know him. 

I think it is not a detail to get worked up about. If the show needs Gendry to reforge Valyrian steel they will find a way for him to learn or have learned in the past how.

Edited by Hippocras

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Hippocras said:

Actually the show audience doesn't really know him. 

We know only a little: https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Tobho_Mott

in the show: "a blacksmith invited from Volantis"

in the books: "Tobho Mott, a blacksmith from Qohor"

Show and book differ and we have to settle with that. 

Edited by Kajjo

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11 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

We know only a little: https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Tobho_Mott

in the show: "a blacksmith invited from Volantis"

in the books: "Tobho Mott, a blacksmith from Qohor"

Show and book differ and we have to settle with that. 

It makes sense they changed it. Qohor was never introduced in the show. 

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Arya and Gendry:

And then there’s also Gendry’s reunion with Arya (Maisie Williams), who he last saw in season 3. “He’s reunited with Arya again. So a lot for Gendry is those two catching up and reconnecting and finding out what they’ve been doing. I really enjoyed working with Maisie in seasons 1-3 and I even said back then she’s one of the most talented actors I’ve ever worked with — not just young actors, but actors in general. To watch her get even better, not just Thrones but in various other things, I was looking forward to getting back on set with Maisisie

Warrrior:

You become nocturnal. Every night there’s a tipping point around 2 a.m. where everybody starts behaving a little bit weird. The stuff we were shooting was incredible to be a part of. Whenever anybody asked over the years, ‘What would you like for Gendry?’ I’ve always sort of said that all I really want was to be there for the end game. So to be swinging a mace around — that’s my weapon this year — it’s in the middle of the night. You’re out there with 200 actors, freezing cold… it’s no acting required. We’re probably never going to see something like this again.”

https://ew.com/tv/2019/04/05/game-of-thrones-gendry-joe-dempsie/

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52 minutes ago, Hippocras said:

It makes sense they changed it. Qohor was never introduced in the show. 

Yes, changing Qohor to Volantis makes sense in the show, but not saying it was Tobho Mott makes no sense at all. It would have been a simple sentence. The change must be intentional. So maybe the connection is not important?

 

40 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

He’s reunited with Arya again. So a lot for Gendry is those two catching up and reconnecting and finding out what they’ve been doing.

It clear that they meet in S8. Both will be in Winterfell. The teasers confirmed that. No speculation needed.

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16 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Yes, changing Qohor to Volantis makes sense in the show, but not saying it was Tobho Mott makes no sense at all. It would have been a simple sentence. The change must be intentional. So maybe the connection is not important?

 

It clear that they meet in S8. Both will be in Winterfell. The teasers confirmed that. No speculation needed.

It was not my intention to trigger speculation on that possibility, but to inform about it, and maybe, some people would like to speculate on the nature of those reunions.

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It's REALLy interesting, btw, how Joe uses the words "A LOT FOR GENDRY" when speaking about Arya and his character.

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1 hour ago, Kajjo said:

Yes, changing Qohor to Volantis makes sense in the show, but not saying it was Tobho Mott makes no sense at all. It would have been a simple sentence. The change must be intentional. So maybe the connection is not important?

I think the guy from Volantis and Tobho Mott are one and the same. But Mott was never a character on the show. Just a bit role played by someone way back in season 1 that 90% of viewers have completely forgotten about. Most viewers would have no idea what you were talking about if you said his name. This is why there was no need whatsoever for Tywin to say his name. 

As for Gendry, if the show needs him to rework Valyrian steel it is very easy for a couple lines of dialogue to establish that he learned something about this from his master way back, or alternately, for Sam to read about it in a book and tell Gendry how. So Tobho Mott's differences and insignificance in the show are not indicative of anything when it comes to the future of Gendry.

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1 hour ago, Hippocras said:

insignificance in the show are not indicative of anything when it comes to the future of Gendry.

With this I agree. 

Whether Gendry forging Valyrian steel makes sense, is a different issue. But it is not entirely impossible. There is a chance that it will play out that way. 

1 hour ago, Hippocras said:

This is why there was no need whatsoever for Tywin to say his name.

Yes, the name might not be known or important, but stating "Only three can do it and I invited one of them from Volantis" is quite a lengthy explanation instead of simply telling Jamie, that their own blacksmith was able to do it. Jamies knows Tobho Mott. Not, this is either a plot-hole or intentionally changed. Let's hope for the latter.

1 hour ago, Hippocras said:

if the show needs him to rework Valyrian steel it is very easy for a couple lines of dialogue to establish that he learned something about this from his master way back

True, but I would feel it to be a mistake, a plot-hole. A minor one, but a plot-hole.

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7 hours ago, Kajjo said:

We know only a little: https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Tobho_Mott

in the show: "a blacksmith invited from Volantis"

in the books: "Tobho Mott, a blacksmith from Qohor"

Show and book differ and we have to settle with that. 

Have you ever allowed for the fact Tywin might be stretching the truth a little in order to impress Jamie? 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Kajjo said:

With this I agree. 

Whether Gendry forging Valyrian steel makes sense, is a different issue. But it is not entirely impossible. There is a chance that it will play out that way. 

Yes, the name might not be known or important, but stating "Only three can do it and I invited one of them from Volantis" is quite a lengthy explanation instead of simply telling Jamie, that their own blacksmith was able to do it. Jamies knows Tobho Mott. Not, this is either a plot-hole or intentionally changed. Let's hope for the latter.

True, but I would feel it to be a mistake, a plot-hole. A minor one, but a plot-hole.

Well if I had to speculate, if the change is intentional it is because the show has been slowly setting up Volants as the centre of Red Priest magic. Asshai was never mentioned. But Volantis has had a presence for a very long time. Robb’s wife came from there and it was specifically described as a slave city. Mel was headed there last season and may have a scene or two there before returning. Not sure where the Golden Company gets picked up by Euron but very possibly Volantis. If so there could be some interesting dynamics given that the Red Priests are clearly behind the Northern coalition, not Cersei and frankly Euron doesn’t really seem to believe Cersei is the most beautiful woman in the world after seeing Dany on her dragon.

So, Volantis is the centre of fire related magic now, and Valyrian steel involves a kind of fire magic. So in the show they decided the steel worker should come from there.

Edited by Hippocras

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Hippocras said:

So, Volantis is the centre of fire related magic now, and Valyrian steel involves a kind of fire magic. So in the show they decided the steel worker should come from there.

Yes, I see no problem with that. Volantis is fine for me. I focus on the show here.

My problem is that Tywin tells Jamie he invited a blacksmith from Volantis. And Tobho Mott had his shop since many years and is well known to both Tywin and Jamie. Mott is a very good blacksmith. So, if it was Mott in the show, Tywin intentionally hold back the truth or it is not Mott in the show.

12 hours ago, Error-504 said:

Have you ever allowed for the fact Tywin might be stretching the truth a little in order to impress Jamie? 

No really. Why should he?  But yes, it's possible. Or it might be a plot-hole due to dumb dialogue writing in this instance.

Edited by Kajjo

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