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What is the role of Gendry?


JMMapelwood

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Gender probably has something to do with his blacksmith abilities, t rained by one of the few that could reforge valerian steel.

I think that is his destiny, to reforge some kind of sword/weapon (Ice?) to use.

He might meet Arya, but I don't think he will have much to do with her, he is to hot headed and angry about different stuff (eager to leave, wanted to kill Lannister guards, much hate towards BwB). I believe Arya needs Sandor, and that her survival and we'll being depends on Sandor. 

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1 hour ago, Johannes Nilsson said:

he is to hot headed and angry about different stuff (eager to leave, wanted to kill Lannister guards, much hate towards BwB).

You do know that Arya is hot headed too, right? She was on her way to kill Cersei Lannister at the start of this season, and Beric used to be a name on her list.

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51 minutes ago, Johannes Nilsson said:

I mean that in order for Arya to mature and grow up, Sandor is better then Gendry. Gender might reinforce those parts of Arya that doesn't need to be reinforced like hot-headded and vengeance searching.

But I think the show is trying to tell us that Arya is mature and grown up. Hence, she doesn't need Sandor anymore.

She chose her list over HoBaW, and she chose family and home over her list, and reconciled with Sansa. Granted D&D tend to do this in a way that often tends to give the opposite impression. Kindof like last season was all about how blind Arya was being beaten by a stick and failed her assignments, gets stabbed in the gut multiple times, but in the end managed it and pulled off Frey Pies, wearing faces, and killing all of House Frey males. 

As for Gendry, the parallels serve more to show us that Gendry is capable of empathizing with her anger and not judge her for it, but simultaneously able to stop her. For example, we have Gendry clinging to his grudge about the BwB, but inthe scene of the wight-bear attack, he is actually the one beside Beric at Thoros's side. Gendry's the one who opens the clothes to check his wounds, the one who gives him the flask, and who helps him up. When she's hitting the cage of prisoners with a stick during the trek with Yoren, Gendry's the one who coaxes her away from them. He also holds her back when they hide behind the bushes and Amory has Yoren shot with an arrow. Although afterwards he ends up being the one racing right into battle with Amory's soldiers. Meanwhile with Sandor's trial of combat and winning it, he's the one who instantly gets she intends to kill Sandor herself, but runs after her, jumps her and holds her tight, ignoring her plea to let her go. Arya never resents him for that. And yet, when he learns of her list and how Jaquen promised her three names at the start of S3, he's also the one asking "why didn't you tell him to kill Tywin and Joffrey? The war would be over if you had done so."

So, adding it all up, Gendry understands her, actually knows about her list, doesn't judge her for it other than who should be a priority, but is also the one who steps in between her anger and her target without thinking ill of her and able to walk away from that alive and without her resenting him for it.

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On 8/26/2017 at 10:58 PM, Booknerd2 said:

I also understand with tv limitations that Arya has to be shown to change due to her experiences, especially the more brutal ones like from Braavos and display the passage of time as well. And then we have Eager Beaver sunny and ready to please. I think the two extremes are connected, and Gendry might be the walking, er, Sprinting Antidote, for down the road.

Oh hey Bookie, good to see you talking Arya and Gendry! Also I note that Hot Pie said Arya is pretty! Time for the Stark sisters to explore the fun side of men and relationships with their bull and hound. I note their men had interplay with both their brother and each other. Loved the interplay between Sandor and Gendry (even though what happened with Mel was terrible), Sandor (who has a ginger on his mind) is like, naked with a woman, sounds good! And Gendry is like... still a little stupid stupid stupid... but yeah, let me think about that some more! :lol:

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1 minute ago, Le Cygne said:

Oh hey Bookie, good to see you talking Arya and Gendry! Also I note that Hot Pie said Arya is pretty! Time for the Stark sisters to explore the fun side of men and relationships with their bull and hound. I note their men had interplay with both their brother and each other. Loved the interplay between Sandor and Gendry (even though the scene with Mel was terrible), Sandor (who has a ginger on his mind) is like, naked with a woman, sounds good! And Gendry is like... still a little stupid stupid stupid... but yeah, let me think about that some more. :lol:

Interesting parallel! Gendry's experience with Gingers is not good as well, while Sandor's is (he clearly has her on her mind then) while Gendry is just terified about witches, let's him have his ideal match finally!

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14 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Interesting parallel! Gendry's experience with Gingers is not good as well, while Sandor's is (he clearly has her on her mind then) while Gendry is just terified about witches, let's him have his ideal match finally!

Yeah, Sandor is all up for the naked with a ginger thing! And he's putting the idea out there for Gendry (future brother in law) that with the right one (Arya) that might not be so bad.

I also liked that Sandor and Gendry had good moments with Jon, like Sandor checks to see Jon is OK and even falls asleep against him, and Gendry and Jon bond over their fathers.

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10 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, Sandor is all up for the naked with a ginger thing!  And he's putting the idea out there for Gendry (future brother in law) that with the right one (Arya) that might not be so bad.

Yes, totally! I had not seen that in that way. I'm discovering more subtleties of the dialogue every time I check other's opinions!

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I also liked that Sandor and Gendry had good moments with Jon, like Sandor checks to see Jon is OK and even falls asleep against him, and Gendry and Jon bond over their fathers.

yes, they befriended the brother!

Also, Gendry doesn't want to leave Jon! Some people might say that means nothing, but I think having established those bonds are an important thing for then in s8 make the romances blossom in even a more natural way!

Jon will have to like it

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55 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, they brought them back to circle back to the beginning and reconnect, Arya and Gendry, Sansa and Sandor. And the Stark sisters are also on the same page now. They got the bad stuff out of the way, and now they can go forward.

I'm really excited because we've waited so much for this to happen, and I think it will, the path is now clean for all of them to be free, this can't be a coincidence?...... at least we'll have the version of the TV show. (unless Winds comes out first and something happens there).

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On 2/9/2017 at 0:07 AM, BalerionTheCat said:

Robert said to Ned: "You have a daughter. My Joff and your Sansa shall join our houses, as Lyanna and I might once have done." Except Joffrey was not his son. But poor Bob will have his wish with Gendry and Arya. The Baratheons will survive with Gendry. And join blood with the Starks.

Yep, and they kept that scene in the show.

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On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 7:36 PM, sweetsunray said:

Well, euhm swords have a dual meaning of course. It is not finished yet, but nearly. I tend to think the sword is more of a hint by George that he's almost a grown man, not exactly a young boy anymore.

I agree that a hammer is a good weapon for him. In the show, Sandor chucking it away is more a sign to me that he doesn't need to be a legitimized Baratheon. As you said, family comes up a great deal. I've been going over s2-S3 scenes in relation to the 2 episodes we had with him. His mother died when he was young and he never knew his father. He had no siblings, no family. Tobho Mott was his "family/father" for a while, but in the show Tobho sold him to the watch. Yoren acts the father to Arya and Gendry both, instructing them that if the battle with Amory goes wrong they should "both run away". Then they come across the Brotherhood. This was the family he chose, and 4 times we get a "I/he wanted to be one of you", once said by Arya, repeated in almost the exact same words when he's hoisted up Mel's cart, and then we get that twice again in S7. Then he actually arrives at Dragonstone with his uncle Stannis. This must be family and Mel seduces him, but then it turns out it's because she wants to leech him and burn him and his uncle is going along with that. Davos is the new adopted father and true, but he seeks a bro-relationship with Jon as he heard Ned and Robert used to have, but not a bro-mance. And then Jon sends him to Eastwatch again, Tormund has him give up the hammer (he'll be faster without it) and Arya's stand-in father chucks the Baratheon hammer away. It's the sigil that's thrown away imo. It's enough for him to know who he is, but he doesn't need to be legalized, nor be an official Baratheon, nor a castle, in order to have his family.

Arya specifically says "I could be your family." (not "you can be my family"). Hot Pie meets her at the Crossroads, refers twice to conversations of that long scene between Arya and Gendry when he confronts her about the fact that she's a girl: lady knight, he supposes was a knight because she had armor on, and ending with "can't believe I thought you were a boy, you're pretty!" She leaves for WF, home and family. But then she comes across Nymeria who has her "own pack" now. And there was a black wolf amongst them that got prominently featured. She's home and chooses family over her list. But she's also grown up, not needing protection anymore.

Well, we might even have a mirror elopement. But yeah, Robert had the wrong son and daughter in mind.

The other sword symbolism didn't occur to me, but along with the other hints of the change and the passage of time in the Cameo, it makes sense. 

You gave me a lot to think about with the hammer passed to Tormund and the chucking by Sandor. I have to ask myself why is it being shown? What does it mean for show? For the book?

In both, he is so heavily associated with a bull, while it comes up with Ned and Brienne the comparisons to Robert and Renly which means: Robert & Renly = Baratheon = Stag. We have someone like the Hound who is so associated with one animal, Starks also with wolves, so my thing now is do bull and stag coexist, or will by destiny, he starts leaning towards one more over the other? Out of his control? The stag symbolism, hammer, maybe even a new helm eventually will replace the Bull of his youth? And I'm not even satisfied with how I worded this. Too many questions in my head presently.

So the next thing I did was, hey, at least in book Gendry is not alone. He has two other siblings that we hear about in the books. Can I glean anything by looking at them closer again? So I did. What struck me most was Edric Storm. Little side note: I get a kick that he gets annoyed with Ned Dayne and he has a little brother named Edric too. So in this case, a few things occurred to me when I re-read the Davos chapter when Edric Storm, Shireen, and Davos' kid are taking their lessons on Dragonstone when Davos walks in to talk to the maester.

I observed Edric Storm and I thought of Gendry. 

Edric is immersing himself and mentally molding himself from what he hears and what he thinks is Robert and the "Stagness." Mostly the past glories, and not the full picture. He has had contact with him too though and Gendry has not, limited and small thought it was. Gendry has always had the advantage in my opinion. True, Edric has not had to struggle for basic necessities, nor work, nor worry about danger, but Gendry was able to "forge" his own identity, be his own person, be out there and experience good and bad and see the world, so when all this swoops down on him, he will be ready. Edric hears about it in books and stories of his father, Gendry is actually living it and doing it. Mya has the advantage too of not being so sheltered for what is to come, and just as a future adult in general. Edric wants to be Robert, Gendry wants to be himself and have a purpose, and it seems family or loved ones or something. A place in the world he can be proud of and be productive. I think the show demonstrated a healthy pride and respect and interest in his heritage. I think the book will too. The hero worship by Edric, I think Gendry isn't going to go that route. Good. It's better that way. The show shows him after the shock of finding out surely wears off and how he takes a good attitude towards it. Just a clearing the head and path and a motivation to help and do good. 

The "I won't leave you " in show to Jon, I cringed for a second, but the actor made it work. He really did. It could have gone awry. The aftermath was just showing the character is sweet, loyal, he has a sense of respect for history and past friendships and familial ties, and it means something and he values it, and he is neither self-absorbed nor changed now that he knows who his father is.

In Edric, I saw a small tinge of the Viserys entitlement, he's young, sheltered, and he's not the same personality, but he's not Gendry.

Also, never said nor addressed, but I am damn sure it is because it weighs on him that Jon is Arya's brother. Wait, bro, it's the cousin, more shocking news to come. I swear it felt like Gendry was nailing the first perfect job interview. lol. Somebody was trying for a really good first impression there. But it was his natural, amiable, easy-going personality too, which is why the Cameo sticks out so strongly, that is not his usual demeanor there.

Sandor...well, when he sees Lady of Winterfell, Sansa again, he is going to die from joy. He was all warm and fatherly pride when Brienne brought up Arya. The other runs much deeper. Gendry and Arya meeting again. Well, that is for another time. Too much to post.

Back to family. Well, crap, I've said for years how much can it slap us awake in the face that Gendry is destined to be brought into the Stark fold, plus the Stag world. Before he meets Arya, he meets Ned (the father) and gets approval, Ned knows who he is instantly, an offer to sell his bull helm which he refused and it says a lot by the act alone and who he refuses, Jon Arryn knows, Stannis knows, he's hanging with Lady Stoneheart where the mission appears to be to find Arya at the Orphanage. It's just too much. The guy can't shake the Starks off if he tried.

Side note: What is up with that black wolf with Nymeria mentioned? Is that like Nymeria's Hand of the Direwolf? lol. Didn't pick up on that. 

 

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50 minutes ago, Booknerd2 said:

I have to ask myself why is it being shown? What does it mean for show? For the book?

They put aside conventional weapons to use dragonglass ones, to kill the wights.

Here's a closer look, it's to honor Gendry's bloodline:

He explains the weapon’s detailing is meant to reflect Gendry’s bloodline: “It has the House Baratheon design sculpted, with the stag sigil on either side.”

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/embrace-the-north-with-this-collection-of-props-and-costumes-from-beyond-the-wall

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7 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Oh hey Bookie, good to see you talking Arya and Gendry! Also I note that Hot Pie said Arya is pretty! Time for the Stark sisters to explore the fun side of men and relationships with their bull and hound. I note their men had interplay with both their brother and each other. Loved the interplay between Sandor and Gendry (even though what happened with Mel was terrible), Sandor (who has a ginger on his mind) is like, naked with a woman, sounds good! And Gendry is like... still a little stupid stupid stupid... but yeah, let me think about that some more! :lol:

 

After so much time it really is cool to see a gist of themes and the visual. Just seeing all three characters interacting was great. And Sansa and Arya, the not being mentioned, it just hangs heavy in the air.  Well, Arya was by Brienne a bit.The hints and the weight of omissions is too much. Oh, the two future brother-in-laws...

Also, what was up with the black horse pulling the wight near Sandor on the way to KL. It threw me a second and then I thought of my favorite horse.

No way, people better not think that was me. I was the wimpy carthorse with the bad teeth in book 3 for that pig feet-peddling peasant ruse. Everyone's going to think it's me. I don't think so. Oh, hell, no

 

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10 minutes ago, Booknerd2 said:

Also, what was up with the black horse pulling the wight near Sandor on the way to KL. It threw me a second and then I thought of my favorite horse.

No way, people better not think that was me. I was the wimpy carthorse with the bad teeth in book 3 for that pig feet-peddling peasant ruse. Everyone's going to think it's me. I don't think so. Oh, hell, no

:lol:  Poor Stranger! Maybe he's waiting in Winterfell. The ginger is feeding him apples.

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2 hours ago, Booknerd2 said:

The other sword symbolism didn't occur to me, but along with the other hints of the change and the passage of time in the Cameo, it makes sense. 

You gave me a lot to think about with the hammer passed to Tormund and the chucking by Sandor. I have to ask myself why is it being shown? What does it mean for show? For the book?

In both, he is so heavily associated with a bull, while it comes up with Ned and Brienne the comparisons to Robert and Renly which means: Robert & Renly = Baratheon = Stag. We have someone like the Hound who is so associated with one animal, Starks also with wolves, so my thing now is do bull and stag coexist, or will by destiny, he starts leaning towards one more over the other? Out of his control? The stag symbolism, hammer, maybe even a new helm eventually will replace the Bull of his youth? And I'm not even satisfied with how I worded this. Too many questions in my head presently.

So the next thing I did was, hey, at least in book Gendry is not alone. He has two other siblings that we hear about in the books. Can I glean anything by looking at them closer again? So I did. What struck me most was Edric Storm. Little side note: I get a kick that he gets annoyed with Ned Dayne and he has a little brother named Edric too. So in this case, a few things occurred to me when I re-read the Davos chapter when Edric Storm, Shireen, and Davos' kid are taking their lessons on Dragonstone when Davos walks in to talk to the maester.

I observed Edric Storm and I thought of Gendry. 

Edric is immersing himself and mentally molding himself from what he hears and what he thinks is Robert and the "Stagness." Mostly the past glories, and not the full picture. He has had contact with him too though and Gendry has not, limited and small thought it was. Gendry has always had the advantage in my opinion. True, Edric has not had to struggle for basic necessities, nor work, nor worry about danger, but Gendry was able to "forge" his own identity, be his own person, be out there and experience good and bad and see the world, so when all this swoops down on him, he will be ready. Edric hears about it in books and stories of his father, Gendry is actually living it and doing it. Mya has the advantage too of not being so sheltered for what is to come, and just as a future adult in general. Edric wants to be Robert, Gendry wants to be himself and have a purpose, and it seems family or loved ones or something. A place in the world he can be proud of and be productive. I think the show demonstrated a healthy pride and respect and interest in his heritage. I think the book will too. The hero worship by Edric, I think Gendry isn't going to go that route. Good. It's better that way. The show shows him after the shock of finding out surely wears off and how he takes a good attitude towards it. Just a clearing the head and path and a motivation to help and do good. 

The "I won't leave you " in show to Jon, I cringed for a second, but the actor made it work. He really did. It could have gone awry. The aftermath was just showing the character is sweet, loyal, he has a sense of respect for history and past friendships and familial ties, and it means something and he values it, and he is neither self-absorbed nor changed now that he knows who his father is.

In Edric, I saw a small tinge of the Viserys entitlement, he's young, sheltered, and he's not the same personality, but he's not Gendry.

Also, never said nor addressed, but I am damn sure it is because it weighs on him that Jon is Arya's brother. Wait, bro, it's the cousin, more shocking news to come. I swear it felt like Gendry was nailing the first perfect job interview. lol. Somebody was trying for a really good first impression there. But it was his natural, amiable, easy-going personality too, which is why the Cameo sticks out so strongly, that is not his usual demeanor there.

Sandor...well, when he sees Lady of Winterfell, Sansa again, he is going to die from joy. He was all warm and fatherly pride when Brienne brought up Arya. The other runs much deeper. Gendry and Arya meeting again. Well, that is for another time. Too much to post.

Back to family. Well, crap, I've said for years how much can it slap us awake in the face that Gendry is destined to be brought into the Stark fold, plus the Stag world. Before he meets Arya, he meets Ned (the father) and gets approval, Ned knows who he is instantly, an offer to sell his bull helm which he refused and it says a lot by the act alone and who he refuses, Jon Arryn knows, Stannis knows, he's hanging with Lady Stoneheart where the mission appears to be to find Arya at the Orphanage. It's just too much. The guy can't shake the Starks off if he tried.

The scene in which Gendry befriends Jon is really good. We know that showGendry has no romantic feelings for Arya (yet) but I think that he was also interested in seeing Arya's brother, as she was his friend during an important period of time (and crucial moments).

So it was both things in a way I think, meeting someone who is the son of the father that, even if you didn't meet, you are now proud of (and you have thought about it during these years in the smithy), realising that Jon is also a bastard like you but more importantly, that he is Arya's brother! and he doesn't want to leave him! He knows the importance of relationships and shows it!

That's why he liked meeting him because it's an opportunity to befriend someone new and who has ties with another important friend of yours. Moreover, he still has his strong personality even if he is talking to a King (he was acccustomed to talk normally to a Lady!), but when Jon's reaction is positive that's when they really bond. He doesn't want to be an inferior and I liked it.

And it's indeed a really good first impression for Jon if, in a future, he reunites with Arya again and realizes that these two know each other...very well. He will think he is a good guy. (Same with Sandor).

I wonder what will Arya's reaction will be btw when she sees Jon with Gendry (they have emphasized Arya's bond with Jon again  this season and vice versa....with "his heart will stop" thing)...and Gendry..the last time she saw him she was devastated and was worried about his safety and very angry at Beric!

(I have realised that Arya will meet Beric again maybe :mellow:)

So she will basically meet both of them together as Friends...Lots of emotions!

Quote

Side note: What is up with that black wolf with Nymeria mentioned? Is that like Nymeria's Hand of the Direwolf? lol. Didn't pick up on that. 

I rewatched that scene again and yeah, there is a black Wolf, but I don't know his role in the pack. It seems that two or three of these wolves (the black, the dark grey and I dont remember the colour of the other one) are around Nymeria, so they might be the second ones in importance, maybe they are more brave or something.

Nymeria clearly leads the pack. Who would tell her otherwise?

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44 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

The scene in which Gendry befriends Jon is really good. We know that showGendry has no romantic feelings for Arya (yet) but I think that he was also interested in seeing Arya's brother, as she was his friend during an important period of time (and crucial moments).

So it was both things in a way I think, meeting someone who is the son of the father that, even if you didn't meet, you are now proud of (and you have thought about it during these years in the smithy), realising that Jon is also a bastard like you but more importantly, that he is Arya's brother! and he doesn't want to leave him! He knows the importance of relationships and shows it!

That's why he liked meeting him because it's an opportunity to befriend someone new and who has ties with another important friend of yours. Moreover, he still has his strong personality even if he is talking to a King (he was acccustomed to talk normally to a Lady!), but when Jon's reaction is positive that's when they really bond. He doesn't want to be an inferior and I liked it.

And it's indeed a really good first impression for Jon if, in a future, he reunites with Arya again and realizes that these two know each other...very well. He will think he is a good guy. (Same with Sandor).

I wonder what will Arya's reaction will be btw when she sees Jon with Gendry (they have emphasized Arya's bond with Jon again  this season and vice versa....with "his heart will stop" thing)...and Gendry..the last time she saw him she was devastated and was worried about his safety and very angry at Beric!

(I have realised that Arya will meet Beric again maybe :mellow:)

So she will basically meet both of them together as Friends...Lots of emotions!

I rewatched that scene again and yeah, there is a black Wolf, but I don't know his role in the pack. It seems that two or three of these wolves (the black, the dark grey and I dont remember the colour of the other one) are around Nymeria, so they might be the second ones in importance, maybe they are more brave or something.

Nymeria clearly leads the pack. Who would tell her otherwise?

I think Jon is sold already. And his approval will mean a lot to Arya, plus their past history, and in most film and literature, the abrupt parting of two people under stressful circumstances with time passing usually works out well.

In a series where every many old tropes are turned on their head, Jon and Gendry works. It's not buddy cop movie. Jon is not Ned's son, so it's not corny like... the two sons of the two father's... and everyone in the end goes off to their pretty castles. The audience knows more than the character's do. Some of the dialogue would have been corny under other circumstances, but the actors pulled off most, and the nature of the series anchored it. 

To me, because it is most likely going somewhere in future, the hanging in the air between the four works for tv. Anticlimactic if Sandor and Gendry lined up in front of Jon and went off on the tv show about I know your sister, where is she, blah, blah, blah. Maybe it could have been done, I'm not a screenwriter, but at this point due to time and other issues. Leave me with the books, maybe it's just better they didn't. We may get something in the final season, or I will ask myself why the hints and other small tidbits that happened this season, if it's for nothing. It will be better when they all meet up again, and I am sure a bit of comedy ensues too. It does drive readers nuts, and non-book viewers that either heard some book themes, theories, or did their homework. The not bringing them up may build it up more and help.

I saw people shocked that Gendry didn't bring up Arya to Jon. Other stuff he said to Jon with another actor could have been too much or over the top but Dempsie balanced it somehow. Mentioning Arya, I can't even begin to imagine in such short rushed choppy between characters scenes how the heck that could have happened decently. How do you mention her quick, a big issue, and then stop awkwardly, because there are like other storylines being crammed in and bursting at the seams. I just don't know. 

I give the actor credit, because that could have came off pushy, arrogant, annoying, his scenes with Jon. Maybe even near Viserys Entitlement territory, and it didn't. A bad actor could have ruined the whole thing, but definitely the right person was cast.

Ok, so maybe Big Nyms has a Queen's Guard too? Sounds good to me.

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