The curse of Arya Stark

[The Sleeper]

There has been a curse of Harrenhal and of those who held the castle, have come to a bad end. It seems to me that those who have held or in whose charge Arya has been, end up dead as well, whether benign or hostile.

Starting with Ned, Yoren, the Mountain, Tywin, Amory Lorch, Vargo Hoat and Beric Dondarrion have all met their ends. There are two exceptions: Roose Bolton and the Hound.

Now, @sweetsunray has a thread about Arya presenting the attitudes of a valkyrie, in which at some point it is discussed that in some cases they had the role of kingmakers, which was expressed by presenting cups to drink from. (I am probably getting details wrong, I am not familiar with the mythology). She was Bolton's cupbearer and she gave the Hound water to drink. In the first case she poured wine for Bolton which led to his rise to power, while the water she served the Hound wound up with him being transformed.

She has poured for the Faceless Men on to seperate occasions. On the first it was unspecified what she poured. On the second she held the flagon with the water.

[elder brother jonothor dar]

I believe the hound has died and was brought back by Thoros, but I won't go into that.

Bolton is not long for this world, the kindly man could be killed when she departs Bravos.

Would you class Syrio, Jaqen and Meralyn as such more so than Vargo, Weese also died.

[The Sleeper]

Vargo was co castellan with Amory Lorch, though he doesn't necessarily fit. Syrio maybe, Jaqen definitely not and Weese was just an underling himself.

Who the hell is Meralyn.

[elder brother jonothor dar]

Vargo was castellan but was not concious of Arya as far as I know. Lorch on the other hand was the one to capture her.  Weese was in charge of Arya on a daily basis.

Jaqen probably not but was a protector/mentor/inspiration and Jaqen died.

Meralyn runs the brothel in Bravos

 

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

I find it interesting that everyone on Arya's list is destined to die a horrible death of some sort. Yet not by Arya's hand, but her wishes are getting fulfilled. Maybe the Many Faced God is doing her a huge favor expecting something in return?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

When did The Mountain have Arya?

ETA: Beric shouldn't count because he was dead already multiple times before Arya showed up, and because his next death was similarly temporary.

[elder brother jonothor dar]

3 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

I find it interesting that everyone on Arya's list is destined to die a horrible death of some sort. Yet not by Arya's hand, but her wishes are getting fulfilled. Maybe the Many Faced God is doing her a huge favor expecting something in return?

Spoiler

I can think of 1 she kills with her own hands

I have been tempted to go through the books and compile a list of all the wishes that have come true and those that have yet to happen, a lot of people have had what they wanted or thought they wanted in many cases come to pass.

[Curled Finger]

Arya makes me a lot more sad than cheering.   For all her badassery, she's still just a little girl.  She's still a little girl in Winds, but maybe more cunning?  Her wish list is just that, a wish list.  Yes, it's curious that those named die and the 1 removed from the list miraculously lives--probably.  I think it would be futile to hope for happily ever after for Arya.  She's a casualty of the wars of her time.  This engagement with the Faceless Men is no doubt to give her skills to become a fabulous killer, but I think it would be better to teach her a conscience.   Bran, Jon and Sansa all have to control their actions very carefully where their sister seems to be liberated to the point of childish abandonment.   There are a thousand better ways her story can go than cruel lesson or story book ending.   

The connections between wine and water being poured are interesting.   I have no doubt that Roose Bolton will find his own end probably very early in Winds, hopefully at Stannis' hands.   Not Arya's.  It is The Hound's removal from Arya's list that give me hope for both of them.  She may not be too far gone.  

[Lady Blizzardborn]

53 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Arya makes me a lot more sad than cheering.   For all her badassery, she's still just a little girl.  She's still a little girl in Winds, but maybe more cunning?  Her wish list is just that, a wish list.  Yes, it's curious that those named die and the 1 removed from the list miraculously lives--probably.  I think it would be futile to hope for happily ever after for Arya.  She's a casualty of the wars of her time.  This engagement with the Faceless Men is no doubt to give her skills to become a fabulous killer, but I think it would be better to teach her a conscience.   Bran, Jon and Sansa all have to control their actions very carefully where their sister seems to be liberated to the point of childish abandonment.   There are a thousand better ways her story can go than cruel lesson or story book ending.   

The connections between wine and water being poured are interesting.   I have no doubt that Roose Bolton will find his own end probably very early in Winds, hopefully at Stannis' hands.   Not Arya's.  It is The Hound's removal from Arya's list that give me hope for both of them.  She may not be too far gone.  

CF, do you really want Roose to die without knowing that his cupbearer from Harrenhal is the real Arya Stark? He could have had the genuine article for Ramsay, but he never figured it out.

I wouldn't want Roose to die at Arya's hand either, but I'm kind of looking forward to their reunion and her calling him "m'lord."

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

CF, do you really want Roose to die without knowing that his cupbearer from Harrenhal is the real Arya Stark? He could have had the genuine article for Ramsay, but he never figured it out.

I wouldn't want Roose to die at Arya's hand either, but I'm kind of looking forward to their reunion and her calling him "m'lord."

Ah Lady, you always make me smile.  Arya is a sensitive subject with me coming off Season 7 and all that regurgitated from Season 6.   In my happier more vengeful Arya cheering moments of course I want what you've described.  I'm just raw from what 1 medium has done to this character hoping against hope that this isn't really where she's headed.    Will snap out of it soon.  

[Julia H.]

On 2017. 08. 25. at 9:47 PM, elder brother jonothor dar said:

 

Jaqen probably not but was a protector/mentor/inspiration and Jaqen died.

 

 

When did Jaqen die?

[elder brother jonothor dar]

“The debt is paid,” Arya agreed reluctantly. She felt a little sad. Now she was just a mouse again. “A god has his due. And now a man must die.” A strange smile touched the lips of Jaqen H’ghar. “Die?” she said, confused. What did he mean? “But I unsaid the name. You don’t need to die now.” “I do. My time is done.” Jaqen passed a hand down his face from forehead to chin, and where it went he changed. His cheeks grew fuller, his eyes closer; his nose hooked, a scar appeared on his right cheek where no scar had been before. And when he shook his head, his long straight hair, half red and half white, dissolved away to reveal a cap of tight black curls."

“Please don’t go, Jaqen.” “Jaqen is as dead as Arry,” he said sadly, “and I have promises to keep. Valar morghulis, Arya Stark. Say it again.”

Arya 9 clash

[Julia H.]

57 minutes ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

“The debt is paid,” Arya agreed reluctantly. She felt a little sad. Now she was just a mouse again. “A god has his due. And now a man must die.” A strange smile touched the lips of Jaqen H’ghar. “Die?” she said, confused. What did he mean? “But I unsaid the name. You don’t need to die now.” “I do. My time is done.” Jaqen passed a hand down his face from forehead to chin, and where it went he changed. His cheeks grew fuller, his eyes closer; his nose hooked, a scar appeared on his right cheek where no scar had been before. And when he shook his head, his long straight hair, half red and half white, dissolved away to reveal a cap of tight black curls."

“Please don’t go, Jaqen.” “Jaqen is as dead as Arry,” he said sadly, “and I have promises to keep. Valar morghulis, Arya Stark. Say it again.”

Arya 9 clash

Oh, but that's just the "death" of one persona of the man! I thought you meant his physical death, not the change of the face and the character personified. OK, so symbolic deaths also count in this theory. But in this case, does it matter that - according to this faceless man - "Arry" is also dead? 

 

[elder brother jonothor dar]

1 hour ago, Julia H. said:

Oh, but that's just the "death" of one persona of the man! I thought you meant his physical death, not the change of the face and the character personified. OK, so symbolic deaths also count in this theory. But in this case, does it matter that - according to this faceless man - "Arry" is also dead? 

 

Not sure the hound has also died symbolically at least, but what is paramount is that Arya Stark refuses to die and her list is a big part of her true self.

She kills Dareon for desertion as the Starks have done through the centuries 

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

17 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I wouldn't want Roose to die at Arya's hand either, but I'm kind of looking forward to their reunion and her calling him "m'lord."

You are not serious? The evil, rapist Roose Bolton? Really?

 

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

18 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Arya makes me a lot more sad than cheering.   For all her badassery, she's still just a little girl...  She's a casualty of the wars of her time.  This engagement with the Faceless Men ...

I very highly doubt Arya is going to end up a "casualty of war." She's not really a "badass" as the show makes her to be. She's a determined survivalist who is just full of anger. She also has a talent for weapons and will probably end up mastering fighting of some sort with the FM, as you say. In the books the kindly man she trains with tries to make her less vengeful and less likely to kill unsuspecting black brothers in alleyways. But her hatred will always stay with her. 

The FM are more than just a groups of assassins for hire. We know they are connected to Old Valyria and Doom somehow. So their role in the ice and fire things to come will be bigger. And Arya would be in the center of it all. Arya was a major character is GRRMs original outline for the books. And I think she will be to the end. She could still die, but not without making a major splash. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

15 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Ah Lady, you always make me smile.  Arya is a sensitive subject with me coming off Season 7 and all that regurgitated from Season 6.   In my happier more vengeful Arya cheering moments of course I want what you've described.  I'm just raw from what 1 medium has done to this character hoping against hope that this isn't really where she's headed.    Will snap out of it soon.  

There, there.  We all go through this. I'm absolutely her certain her arc in TWoW and ADoS will make sense and be better in that at least.

16 minutes ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

You are not serious? The evil, rapist Roose Bolton? Really?

 

GRRM set up their eventual reunion with her being his cupbearer at Harrenhal and him never figuring out who she really was. Add in the fake Arya he married to his son and it's a dead giveaway (no pun intended) that the two of them are coming face to face at some point. I wouldn't be completely upset if Arya kills Roose, I just think it's more important for her to kill Ramsay. As long as someone kills Roose at some point, I'm good. Hey, maybe she can kill them both at the same time. It could be a father-son bonding moment. I could live with that.