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norwaywolf123

Jon bending the knee changing Daenerys potential marriage partner?

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3 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

What is a lion to me, ser? When the Lord of Light shines in the heavens above? Your gods have betrayed you, abandoned you. Mine have thrust a flaming sword into my hand, risen me from the sleep of oblivion to fight the Great Other. Lions and sheep... how inconsequential.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnuCsp_tVs0

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There are many potential husbands for Dany in the novel but HBO was so intent on making Jon important that they eliminated the others from the plot.  The best candidates in the real story are:  Wylas Tyrell, Trystane Martell, Gerold Dayne, and Aegon Blackfyre.  The show wrote all of those out of the plot so that leaves Snowflake. 

Jaime is not a good candidate.  Dany should roast that asshole for being a pain in the ass.  The Lannisters have lost their gold mines.  The Lannister gold has been tarnished.  Euron can never be trusted and the iron fleet is not a big enough prize. 

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Yeah ... in terms of the show, the (surviving) eligible bachelors are basically Jon, Robyn Arryn, and Jorah, Lord of Friendzone.

If Jaime's lucky, she doesn't have him killed, and permits him to take the Black. That's about as much as he can hope for (or death in battle).

Tyrion is (a) nominally already married to Sansa (maybe), (b) sufficiently onboard with her that marrying him doesn't gain anything for her.

Euron's batshit crazy, and she's basically promised to help kill him anyways.

Jorah is Lord of Friendzone, and wouldn't gain her anything. Might even cost her some support.

Robyn Arryn, supposedly sickly and nowhere near strongwilled enough to stand up to her - she'd walk all over him, which isn't what she's looking for. Robyn couldn't serve as her swordarm, if she needed him to. Politically, reasonably advantageous.

Jon's a capable warrior, strong-willed enough to stand up to her as an equal, and a politically advantageous match, even if he's already bent the knee - it would solidify probably shakey support from the North and Vale. Also, Drogon likes him, and he seems to like her dragons well enough - certainly well enough to pet Drogon.

 

 

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6 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

But if Jon bends the knee to Daenerys as he told her he would daenerys would be free to marry someone else, i am asking who that other person could be. My guess is on Jaime as the show released him from his kingsguard vows, opening up the possiblitly of a marriage for Jaime. I also think that Daenerys will take the last Cersei holds dear(Jaime) after cersei has a miscarriage.

Marrying Jon would probably appease the northerners who wouldn't want to be ruled by the south. So there is definitely some advantage there, not to mention the AoD is in the north.

It always struck me that the show released Jaime from the KG. Not sure where they are going with it yet.

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2 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

Marrying Jon would probably appease the northerners who wouldn't want to be ruled by the south. So there is definitely some advantage there, not to mention the AoD is in the north.

It always struck me that the show released Jaime from the KG. Not sure where they are going with it yet.

The northerners are in more hurry and danger therefor more willing to make concessions compared with sourtjon lords like Jaime.

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10 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

What about Jaime? He has been dismissed from the kingsguard, freeing him to marry, why would the show writers do that if not for marrying him to someone?

Well, it also gives him the claim to the Westerlands. In fact, it could be not even part of Jaime's story, but Tyrion's. Because Jaime's claim is now better than Tyrion's. Tyrion started this whole mess motivated by the fact that he was the rightful heir to the West but his father refused to acknowledge it. If he asks Dany to spare his brother, knowing that it means giving up the claim that drove everything he's done, that's a big turning point for him. Tyrion could end up inheriting the West anyway because Jaime rejects it or dies taking down Cersei or something; it would still be a major beat in his character arc.

(Of course if that happens, a horde of book fans will quite rightly point out that Tyrion could have just suggested Jaime be spared but sent to the Wall, or into exile, or be stripped of his inheritance. But the show is hardly above oversimplifying things like this.)

But there's also the option of the show marrying Jaime to Brienne, or just revisiting the possibility but not following through with it.

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3 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

Marrying Jon would probably appease the northerners who wouldn't want to be ruled by the south. So there is definitely some advantage there, not to mention the AoD is in the north.

Yes, this is something that Tyrion and/or Davos should have mentioned as soon as Jon arrived, or at least as soon as they hit a roadblock with Dany insisting Jon bend the knee and Jon refusing because his lords might abandon him. I don't know why the show had Tyrion and Davos play wingman and say "Hey, that Queen's got a nice ass, eh?" instead of playing medieval negotiator and say "Your lords would be all for supporting a Northern King of Westeros, and she'd have a much better reason to defend the North if it were for her husband and their loyal subjects".

Maybe they plan to have Tyrion or Davos suggest a marriage once Jon's ancestry is revealed, and they didn't want to have two similar discussions?

Or maybe they thought their viewers would be confused and/or turned off by medieval marriage diplomacy? Personally, I think the journey from helpless girl who's sold into marriage for someone else's selfish benefit to powerful Queen who sells herself into marriage to benefit both herself and her realm would be a pretty good arc, but maybe a lot of viewers would disagree, and D&D are worried about that.

Or maybe they couldn't think of a way to make it feel like a progression from Hizdahr instead of just a repeat?

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10 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

What about Jaime? He has been dismissed from the kingsguard, freeing him to marry, why would the show writers do that if not for marrying him to someone? Maggys prophecy also foreshadows cersei losing jaime to a younger more beautiful queen.

I see what you did there, but that's not the way of it. It states, "You'll be Queen for a time, and then replaced by another, younger, more beautiful Queen." This can ONLY lead to Dany as she has been spoken of in the books and in the show as "The most beautiful woman in the world." Personal opinion, this season, they have really stepped up their Dany beauty!

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She's going to marry Bronn.

Dany is the gift promised to Bronn by Tyrion and Jamie.

Huge castle and hot too.

Bronn will finally get his castle and sexy high born lady.

Fandom goes wild with approval.

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5 hours ago, Texas Hold Em said:

Jaime is not a good candidate.  Dany should roast that asshole for being a pain in the ass.  The Lannisters have lost their gold mines.  The Lannister gold has been tarnished.  Euron can never be trusted and the iron fleet is not a big enough prize. 

This. So much this. Hard to admit it, but I ship Jonareys. There is no other real match at this point in the story. By the way, GRRM has said this entire story is about the two of them getting together. 

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14 minutes ago, Lord Okra said:

She's going to marry Bronn.

Dany is the gift promised to Bronn by Tyrion and Jamie.

Huge castle and hot too.

Bronn will finally get his castle and sexy high born lady.

Fandom goes wild with approval.

Bronn may want the good Queen, but he needs the bad pussy.

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40 minutes ago, A man has no name said:

 Personal opinion, this season, they have really stepped up their Dany beauty!

Emilia is like a fine wine. :)

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32 minutes ago, A man has no name said:

This. So much this. Hard to admit it, but I ship Jonareys. There is no other real match at this point in the story. By the way, GRRM has said this entire story is about the two of them getting together. 

Where did he say that? Got a link?

In theory, I believe it. But then again, I subscribe to the theory that Daenerys is the ultimate antagonist of the series, and will have to be defeated by Jon. :P

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2 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

Where did he say that? Got a link?

In theory, I believe it. But then again, I subscribe to the theory that Daenerys is the ultimate antagonist of the series, and will have to be defeated by Jon. :P

Apologies brother, I listened to the GoT podcast, Bingemode podcast, and a cast of kings podcast. All three had hosts that confirmed GRRM said it. I usually read all the weekly garbage as well. Man, I'm gonna try to find it for you now that you asked.  

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21 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

Where did he say that? Got a link?

In theory, I believe it. But then again, I subscribe to the theory that Daenerys is the ultimate antagonist of the series, and will have to be defeated by Jon. :P

I don't have a link, but I recall reading that in an interview as well (or rather, several).
He basically more or less confirmed that Jon and Dany are the two main protagonists of the entire saga and that everything ultimately was leading down to them meeting, falling in love and teaming up with each other.

As for Daenerys ending up as the main antagonist, while that would've been quite original, interesting and unexpected, I never fully believed in that theory.
It was somewhat plausible, and in a "parallel universe" it might very well happen that she ends up an evil tyrant.
Any (small) belief I might have had that this would happen in the "current GoT universe" however, quickly got crushed in in season 7. She's firmly in the "good guys"-camp now, and she kinda always has been, even if her impulsiveness, strict sense of morality and earlier naivety which caused her to sometimes take a very black and white approach to things occasionally made her look cruel and ruthless.

But then, if I dare bring up the DnD-alignments, Daenerys has never really been considered Lawful Good either. She's never been above deceit and murder when dealing with those she considers evil.

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She's been portrayed as good for the most part so far, but remember, Aerys was once considered a good king until he went insane, at which point he became the worst villain known in Westeros. 

Watching the show, even if Martin goes that route in the books, I'm thinking the showrunners are going to go for a cheaper, safer ending. As for the books, I still think that's likely. Martin has spent way too much time critiquing Lord of the Rings clones just to make his own with its own Dark Lord and everything.

My personal theory is that one of the main inspirations for A Song of Ice and Fire is the scene in Lord of the Rings when Galadriel is tempted by the One Ring. Remember that scene? For a minute there it's terrifying what she's on the cusp of becoming, but then she regains control and doesn't give in to the temptation. In the case of Daenerys, however, I think that's the end goal. A character who starts off like Galadriel, BUT who succumbs to the temptation of the One Ring and goes dark. That, I think is Martin's end goal (And yeah, I very much doubt he'd basically spoil the ending of his 20+ year novel series. Misdirect, yes, but outright spoil?).

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1 minute ago, Thor Odinson said:

 Aerys was once considered a good king until he went insane, at which point he became the worst villain known in Westeros. 

Not in the show though. 
I know that his madness manifested later on in the books, but in the show Aerys has always been portrayed as an "evil man" from the get-go. 
With that said, he's quite underdeveloped in the show.

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1 hour ago, falcotron said:

Yes, this is something that Tyrion and/or Davos should have mentioned as soon as Jon arrived, or at least as soon as they hit a roadblock with Dany insisting Jon bend the knee and Jon refusing because his lords might abandon him. I don't know why the show had Tyrion and Davos play wingman and say "Hey, that Queen's got a nice ass, eh?" instead of playing medieval negotiator and say "Your lords would be all for supporting a Northern King of Westeros, and she'd have a much better reason to defend the North if it were for her husband and their loyal subjects".

Maybe they plan to have Tyrion or Davos suggest a marriage once Jon's ancestry is revealed, and they didn't want to have two similar discussions?

Or maybe they thought their viewers would be confused and/or turned off by medieval marriage diplomacy? Personally, I think the journey from helpless girl who's sold into marriage for someone else's selfish benefit to powerful Queen who sells herself into marriage to benefit both herself and her realm would be a pretty good arc, but maybe a lot of viewers would disagree, and D&D are worried about that.

Or maybe they couldn't think of a way to make it feel like a progression from Hizdahr instead of just a repeat?

Agreed. They explicitly mention the marriage prospect in the S6 finale. It's the reason Tyrion has Dany  tell Daario he can't come with them to Westeros, because she needed to keep herself open for marriage prospects there.

Jon, being King in the North and currently allied with another great and powerful region, The Vale, is the best match for her since day 1. She gains 2 regions instantly in her fight and quite possibly a 3rd if you can get the Riverlands to rise up against their Lannister occupiers (now that the Freys were demolished) as they would most certainly ally with the North again despite their current trashed status. It's a bit strange how the prospect of marriage wasn't even brought up. Instead, as you said, we had to waste time with match-makers and nonsense like that. At least bring the marriage up, shoot it down for whatever reason, and THEN you can start the old song and dance:

"Getting to know you
Getting to know all about you
Getting to like you 

Getting to hope you like me

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1 hour ago, A man has no name said:

This. So much this. Hard to admit it, but I ship Jonareys. There is no other real match at this point in the story. By the way, GRRM has said this entire story is about the two of them getting together. 

I never thought I'd get behind Jon and Dany, but I do think it has been one of the stronger through-lines this whole season.  I definitely think if this was to happen in the books, it'd be a LOT more complicated and there would be issues around it.  Something that I would think GRRM would do which would be interesting is if Jon bends the knee to Dany in the books too, but the Northern lords rebel against it and it just doesn't end well.  

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On 8/25/2017 at 7:19 PM, norwaywolf123 said:
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Jon told Dany that he would bend the knee

Poltical marriages among the nobillity often had the goal of creating or afirming an alliance. Now that Jon has told that he will bend the knee to daenerys, if he goes through with it daenerys could chose to marry him to afirm the alliance. But i dont think that jon would demand anything like it as his main goal is to defeat the nightwalkers, in that way jon is still true to night's watch oath. What other potential spouses are there that could give daenerys a poltical, strategic, economic edge? To me the only ones besides Jon Snow are.

Jaime Lannister

Pros:

- Claim to the titles, priviliges and propertys of house lannister of casterly rock

- Since he is not longer kingsguard he is the rightfull heir of Tywin lannister as males go before women in succesion.

- Is from a background of faith of the seven more connected to the religion of the core of westeros the south. THis makes it easier for the faith and southron lords to accept him

- Could bring the westerlands(and westerlands dominated parts of westeros) into daenerys fold

- Not powerhungry which will give daenerys more room to manuver

Cons:

- killed her father, betraying his kingsguard oath

- Reputation as a sister fucking, oathbreaker

- Rumored to have cuckolded king robert, will potentially be revealed by cersei

Robin Arryn

Pros:

- Is lord paramount of the vale

- Is from a background of faith of the seven more connected to the religion of the core of westeros the south.

Cons:

- Is sickly

Littlefinger

Pros:

- Have significant control over robin arryn

- rich

- Ties to starks of winterfell

Cons:

- Of low birth

Euron Greyjoy

Pros:

- Controls the iron isles

- Has the biggest fleet

- Experienced on sea (raiding, battleing, sailing, navigating)

Cons:

- Follower of the drowned god, makes him unpopular with northmen and southrons. Especially despised by the faith.

Euron Greyjoy does not follow the Drowned God. He "is the Drowned God". Except not really.

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