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Lady Fevre Dream

[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

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Just now, Sir Dingleberry said:

I think she meant those banners left in the Stormlands and Riverlands (that have been completely forgotten) and the remaining people in the Reach.

I agree that's who she was likely referring to, but again, she has been at war with Dany this entire season. Shouldn't she have called her banners from the get go? But like you said....they have been completely forgotten. I'm surprised the map she had painted at KL just skipped the Stormlands and left it off the map. Like old medieval maps that didn't include the Americas because they didn't know they existed.

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1 hour ago, Iotun said:

I felt this episode was a lot better than the last 2 ones. Although I do have things to complain about, it was definitely not as horrendous as the one from last week.

Still, the main things that annoyed me:

1) The meeting between all the characters still makes no sense whatsoever. They're supposedly all at the meeting because they just want to get a truce, and don't expect the Lannisters to march with them... and fully expect to continue the fight after the war in the North... which still makes no sense, as it's still easier to end the war in the South with a single decisive battle now, that they themselves admit they'll still need to fight in the future.

But fine - but then what do they expect out of Cersei? What are they there for? They want her to promise not to regroup while in the North, so that they can have a fair fight when they return back to the South? Is that realistic? Are they not going to prepare themselves for a fight, after they defeat the White Walkers? Do they really expect Cersei not to prepare to defend herself after their campaign in the North, when they freely admit to her that the war will continue in the future?

And they're then mad at Jon, for getting Cersei to walk out in anger... but what for? Didn't they already get everything they wanted out of Cersei? If they're apparently not there to try and get the Lannisters to march north, and they're still admitting that they'll need to continue to fight afterwards, the only point of the meeting seems to just be to declare to Cersei that 'We're marching North, bye, we'll come later'... I just don't understand what they expect to get our of it, and what they're so angry anout when Cersei first walks out?

Then Cersei keeps talking on and on about her moving back her 'armies'... what armies? The Lannister army should have suffered significant weaknesses by this point, and Cersei should be a hated leader, who faces off against the combined might of practically all other great houses, plus the Dothraki, Unsullied, and 3 dragons... and for all Dany's side knows, they've also just witnessed Euron abandoning her, so Cersei loses her own advantage, which is naval superiority. Dany could literally take the city probably within hours, and yet we're also asked to believe that the Iron Bank will back Cersei, rather than the obvious winning side?

The complete pointlessness of this meeting and this plot, out of which everything else in this season has derived, remains the season's biggest challenge.

2) Why does Tyrion claim responsibility for the deaths of Tommen and Myrcella? That seems completely pointless.

3) The Bran exposition scene was completely pointless. It feels like the show is treating us like idiots. The show should have made it absilutely clear by now that Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and that he was a legitimized son of Rhaegar. The show actually did a good job of 'showing' us this up to this point, why have to spell it out for us in such an obvious way?

4) Finally, I thought the blue fire dragon with the Night King riding it looked too fake, and too computer gamey for me. 

Everything about this. 

1. The truce meeting was useless.  How Dany or anyone for that matter didn't laugh when Cersei talked about her armies.  I don't understand how Bronn can tell Jamie they're fucked when the armies arrive and yet no one on Dany's side can figure that out.  And Euron leaving was some terrible acting.  I don't understand why no one on Dany's side would want to actually you know follow him and verify that but I am assuming that Theon's new storyline is supposed to follow that.

2. This part made me laugh.  He sent Marcella away to keep her safe and Cersei/Tywins trial made the entire murder of her occur.  I guess some blame could be put on Tyrion for placing her there but it seems minor compared.  And we've established Joffrey's death wasn't his.  And she blames him for Tommen's because he killed her dad.  Seems logical even though he bitches constantly about being the only one who learned how to rule from Tywin and yet accepts no responsibility for her failing at ruling and leaving the family vulnerable.

3. Why have we still not seen Jon and Arya reunion. One of the only ones I care about.

4. Too bad no one knows about scuba Wights or Euron would be a little more scared.

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24 minutes ago, PrinceOfTheSummerIsles said:

So the only surviving character in the series till now: Night King. The irony!

My man was always destined to be the stories best character :D

I also think the Rhaegar/Lyanna awe shuck they were married and in love moment was cheesy crap, with a total disregard for the issue that Rhaegar had to dump his wife and kids to have that cheesy moment. Imagine if Luke Skywalker or Harry Potter found out their mum was a slutty homewrecker and their dad abandoned an entire family to make them - that's where this story is headed, it seems.

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10 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

I agree that's who she was likely referring to, but again, she has been at war with Dany this entire season. Shouldn't she have called her banners from the get go? But like you said....they have been completely forgotten. I'm surprised the map she had painted at KL just skipped the Stormlands and left it off the map. Like old medieval maps that didn't include the Americas because they didn't know they existed.

I mean you would think so but the Golden company is such a big curveball that they have to trump everything lol. 

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9 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

And next season opens with Jaime having sex with Cersei and saying, "I'm glad I turned around."

CTHU I darnnnear Spit my water out!

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2 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

The Theon scene with the Ironborn was 100 percent cheese.  God that scene sucked ass.  

I never wanted to fast forward live TV as much as I did right then...

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I've always had a major problem with Jon leaving the Watch. It ruined his character, and every episode reconfirms it for me with his growing Choseniest of the Chosen Ones role.

Jon grew up with a chip on his shoulder about not being true-born. His first lesson at the Night's Watch was to let that go and understand that name, rank, and titles don't make a man. It's what he does in the life he's given.

This whole Aegon Rhaegar things reverses that completely, making "who he is"  extremely significant, to the point of ensuring his legitimacy. It undermines, what was originally a subversion of the Chosen One trope, to instead play it so straight and fan servicey that it is nauseating. 

Don't get me wrong, it's fine that Jon is Targaryean by birth and the PTWP. But the interesting subversion would have been that he never even knows and ends up defeating the WWs as a nobody under a humble oath that he stays true too.

It's interesting because you would compare the life that "could have been": Crown Prince, inherits the Targaryean throne and defeats the WW with glory, honor, and recognition. Instead he achieves the same great task as a simple Watchman, an unsung hero by virtue of his character, not his name. And the same man (Ned) that helped destroy the first scenario was the man who shaped him into the person he needed to be for the second.

It would have been an awesome flip on the secret prince trope, chosen ones, prophesies, happy endings, etc. 

But NO. We get the fan-servicey King Hero who both EARNED IT AND INHERITED IT with constant lip service from every other character in Westeros about how great and cool he is.

What a wasted opportunity (though this is likely on GRRM the most)

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7 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

The Theon scene with the Ironborn was 100 percent cheese.  God that scene sucked ass.  

Yep. Really bad. The scene itself was just awful, and then they top it off with the knees to the man patch and Theon smiling. As if getting kneed by a large man just in general wasn't enough to do anything to an already beaten man.

If he kneed Theon in the stomach would he also react the same way because he doesn't have a dick and balls on his stomach?

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1 minute ago, SuperMario said:

Yep. Really bad. The scene itself was just awful, and then they top it off with the knees to the man patch and Theon smiling. As if getting kneed by a large man just in general wasn't enough to do anything to an already beaten man.

If he kneed Theon in the stomach would he also react the same way because he doesn't have a dick and balls on his stomach?

And what about the Ironborn there that just immediately followed him like a bunch of brainless idiots.  Lol.  Chanting Yara!!! So stupid, that could have been the worst scene in the entire series.  

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7 minutes ago, iprayiam said:

I've always had a major problem with Jon leaving the Watch. It ruined his character, and every episode reconfirms it for me with his growing Choseniest of the Chosen Ones role.

Jon grew up with a chip on his shoulder about not being true-born. His first lesson at the Night's Watch was to let that go and understand that name, rank, and titles don't make a man. It's what he does in the life he's given.

This whole Aegon Rhaegar things reverses that completely, making "who he is"  extremely significant, to the point of ensuring his legitimacy. It undermines, what was originally a subversion of the Chosen One trope, to instead play it so straight and fan servicey that it is nauseating. 

Don't get me wrong, it's fine that Jon is Targaryean by birth and the PTWP. But the interesting subversion would have been that he never even knows and ends up defeating the WWs as a nobody under a humble oath that he stays true too.

It's interesting because you would compare the life that "could have been": Crown Prince, inherits the Targaryean throne and defeats the WW with glory, honor, and recognition. Instead he achieves the same great task as a simple Watchman, an unsung hero by virtue of his character, not his name. And the same man (Ned) that helped destroy the first scenario was the man who shaped him into the person he needed to be for the second.

It would have been an awesome flip on the secret prince trope, chosen ones, prophesies, happy endings, etc. 

But NO. We get the fan-servicey King Hero who both EARNED IT AND INHERITED IT with constant lip service from every other character in Westeros about how great and cool he is.

What a wasted opportunity (though this is likely on GRRM the most)

I completely agree.  I had thought we as readers would learn of his parentage but perhaps he would not whilst Dany and (f)Aegon did the second dance of dragons, unaware of his existence.  I like that scenario a lot.

3 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

And what about the Ironborn there that just immediately followed him like a bunch of brainless idiots.  Lol.  Chanting Yara!!! So stupid, that could have been the worst scene in the entire series.  

Competition for that title is strong for this season, let alone the series as a whole. 

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9 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

And what about the Ironborn there that just immediately followed him like a bunch of brainless idiots.  Lol.  Chanting Yara!!! So stupid, that could have been the worst scene in the entire series.  

Yeah, they certainly have short memories as about 38 seconds before that, they were laughing at Theon when he talked about saving Yara.

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2. This part made me laugh.  He sent Marcella away to keep her safe and Cersei/Tywins trial made the entire murder of her occur.  I guess some blame could be put on Tyrion for placing her there but it seems minor compared.  And we've established Joffrey's death wasn't his.  And she blames him for Tommen's because he killed her dad.  Seems logical even though he bitches constantly about being the only one who learned how to rule from Tywin and yet accepts no responsibility for her failing at ruling and leaving the family vulnerable.

It's ironic. Tommen killed himself because Cersei gave the High Sparrow to much power and then had only one chance to rescue her skin and kill the thread by blowing up the Great Sept with Margaery in it. So her actions led to the suicide of her son Tommen. Of course Cersei cannot admit this and therefore she blames Tyrion, who had killed her father who would have never let der do dumb things if he was alive. So she indirectly admits that her actions were dumb and that she needed Tywin to stop her from doing dumb things.

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I have been left feeling like they just do not care about fleshing out the plot, and for me the show (particularly this season) has suffered for it. I don't care if GRRM has not finished the books so they're winging it, it is their show and even an adaptation needs people capable enough to flesh out the story arcs for a television audience.

There were good moments, but it just felt like one of those budget fantasy series that show up at 2am on Channel 5 or a similarly low budget channel. It frustrates me because if they had fleshed it out a little, spent a bit more time in developing the plot, showing character development, heck just a little bit more than what I viewed as simply whizzing through it to get to the "good stuff" then it could have been good.

And that is what annoys me.

For all the faults, for all the nonsensical aspects, it had potential to be a fairly decent season. All it would have taken is a little time spent on fleshing out the plot, giving it time, letting us see what is going on. If not everything, then at least in a semi-decent fashion. I mean, the whole Winterfell plot... you're telling me that someone as cunning and shrewd as Littlefinger, relaxed enough to not even get a whiff that the entire trial was meant for him not Arya? You're telling me Littlefinger, who had his fingers in all the pies, was so blinded by trying to split the two Stark girls apart and overthrow Jon that he failed to follow his own advice? No. That is a sloppy end. It was a sloppy plot.

On the subject of Jon. I have no time for his character anymore. He is a ridiculously poor leader, he does not consult the Northern lords or acting Lady of Winterfell on his decision to submit to the upstart dragon tamer, does not consider that *actually* her going by dragon would probably be better. What are her dragons doing? Picking off Dothraki mounts, killing sheep, toasting more children?

Also at the Wall. They know the army are marching, they know fire is a weakness (and dragonglass, but eh), but they're just standing at the wall with nothing? No fireballs? No ready to light arrows? Nothing? They just watch them march? Something they knew was going to happen.


It's annoying, because I can see the potential, and they just ... slopped it together. 

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Q: They needed to send all their key males...Jon, Jorah,  Hound, Thoros, Tormund, Beric, etc...north of the wall to catch a wight. And in the process they risk, and lose, a dragon. Why did they need to do this????

A: because they need to prove to Cersei Lannister, who has a far outnumbered and inferior army, that the White Walkers exist.

Q: why do they need to prove to Cersei that the White Walkers exist??

A: because they need a truce.

Q: a truce from what exactly?

A: you know, a truce from when she attacked north of kings landing...oh wait, she never attacked north of king's landing. But what about essos, I mean meeer... oh wait...Cersei NEVER ATTACKED ANYBODY OUTSIDE OF KINGS LANDING EXCEPT WHEN DANY WAS CLOSE ENOUGH TO ATTACK KINGS LANDING.

Q: so you're saying they needed to risk everything in order to prove the existence of White Walkers so they could form a truce with a queen who had an inferior army and had literally never posed any threat to anyone outside of kings landing??

A: yes, exactly.

 

what. The. Fuck. What an awful season

 

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The Ironborn thing was dumb - it was like fightclub without a penis :) How did kicking Theon in the nuts (which I suspect he still had and Ramsay just took his cock) suddenly make him cranky enough to win? How did it not hurt him - it's the nuts themselves that hurt when they get hit, not the penis.

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18 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

And what about the Ironborn there that just immediately followed him like a bunch of brainless idiots.  Lol.  Chanting Yara!!! So stupid, that could have been the worst scene in the entire series.  

That's how this show works. None of the minor characters give a damn about logic, motivation, honor, and stuff like that. They follow the guy who beats or, even better, murders their previous leader. Ellaria murdered Doran and become the ruler of Dorne and everyone there was fine with it. Cersei murdered the High Septon and the Tyrells and become Queen with nobody in the capital objecting. Etc, etc.

I can just see how Dany and Jon will kill the Night King and suddenly all ice zombies will start following their orders and fight for them.

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46 minutes ago, Sir Dingleberry said:

2. This part made me laugh.  He sent Marcella away to keep her safe and Cersei/Tywins trial made the entire murder of her occur.  I guess some blame could be put on Tyrion for placing her there but it seems minor compared.  And we've established Joffrey's death wasn't his.  And she blames him for Tommen's because he killed her dad.  Seems logical even though he bitches constantly about being the only one who learned how to rule from Tywin and yet accepts no responsibility for her failing at ruling and leaving the family vulnerable.

Actually, I had forgotten that Tyrion was the one who sent Myrcella to Dorne... now that I remember it, I have to take my criticism back about the scene, as I feel that Tyrion would definitely feel guilty about her murder given that fact, regardless of him not being directly responsible. Also, remember that Tyrion had the chance to take the black during his trial, but chose to allow Oberyn to champion him, regardless of the fact that he knew his death could endanger Myrcella. Is it fair to Tyrion to blame him? Of course not, but his feelings of guilt now make more sense - and make me wish there had been some conflict between him and the Sand Snakes. Anyway, that actually makes me appreciate the scene between Cercei and Tyrion better now.

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8 minutes ago, EverydaySepta said:

Also at the Wall. They know the army are marching, they know fire is a weakness (and dragonglass, but eh), but they're just standing at the wall with nothing? No fireballs? No ready to light arrows? Nothing? They just watch them march? Something they knew was going to happen.


It's annoying, because I can see the potential, and they just ... slopped it together. 

To be fair, we don't know how quickly it has been since the expedition North and then the NK attacking (b/c of time travel and nonsense) but I agree because they have had plenty of time to prepare for them coming at this point.  Why wasn't the whole forest there set and ready to be set ablaze like when the King Beyond the Wall did the same thing before the attack on Castle Black? The only reason the NK is such a threat is because no one will prepare to actually beat the NK lol.

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