[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[Paid Debt Lannister]

I don't mind the bad dialogue... I don't mind some actings not being the best (I do think that all actors and actresses do at least a fine job anyway)... Jonaerys incest probably comes from the books, so no complains there either.

But the script. Ooohhhh for fuck's sake. How the hell does this makes into television. What a wasted opportunity to come with the best scenes in show history, and all they do with the dragonpit scene is Cersei changing her mind like 4 times, and at the end reveal she was gonna trick them anyway (how did she and Euron even agree to that? "Look I don't believe in zombies but just in case hey are real, pretend to be scared and escape but it won't be true byyyee"

I expected some sort of conflict to erupt. Cersei being the traito she is. Shooting at the dragons, Cleganebowl. They should have finished this KL storyline this season. But dragging it to season 8 basically firms it as the final conflict, I guess. They will fight the NK and then will face Cersei and the GC. So bad.

And btw, are we all sure Tyrion will betray Dany? I expect a crossbow dart right on her pregnant belly. Utter unecessary and gruesome (AND OH THE SHOCK)

[LyannaKuku]

Mirri Maz Durr to dany : No children for you!

Dany : *will most likely have children bc they keep bringing up heir*

Maggy to cersei : No more than 3 children for you!

Cersei : *is pregnant again*

 

Really now? Can we trust any of the prophecies? Or do they mean nothing?

[darmody]

22 hours ago, Hoo said:

Cmon man.  He led her down the path like she's dumb yet she is smart enough to see through it?

LF was in service to Sansa, her servant and advisor.  She could tell him what to do, order him, and consult with him.  But she played him to kill him, a servant.  And he was not even a threat.

When Cersei killed she killed threats.  This murder is just wild.

 

Littlefinger was by no means Sansa's servant. He was Lord Protector of the Vale, looking after the interests of Sweetrobin Arryn. 

[Blackwater Revenant]

Good post, I was with you right up until this part.

14 hours ago, iprayiam said:

 (though this is likely on GRRM the most)

 

14 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

So stupid, that could have been the worst scene in the entire series.  

It certainly could have been...then again, there isn't a category in which this show excels in as much as this one. There is a lot of strong competition for that title.

[teej6]

2 hours ago, darmody said:

But those people--Brandon, Rickard, Ned, and Robert--were killed or called to be killed directly or indirectly because of the kidnapping, weren't they? Aerys didn't just start a murder spree for the heck of it. 

If you read my post I was taking issue with that stupid line they have Bran say, "RR was built on a lie" based on the fact that Rhaegar actually loved Lyanna and did not kidnap her. But Rhaegar and Lyanna's elopment didn't start the war, neither did Brandon or Rickard's deaths. And no, Aerys didn't summon Brandon to be killed. The idiot charged into the Red Keep and asked for Rhaegar (who wasn't there) to come out and fight him. Did the kidnapping cause him to do that? Yes. But that was his call. And even after Brandon and Rickard were killed, there was no war. Ned did not call his banners. Robert did not call his banners. The war started because Aerys was batshit crazy. Aerys calling for Ned and Robert's heads and Jon Arryn refusing to obey and declaring war is what started RR. So no you are wrong and besides this is a rant thread. If you read the rules of this thread, you'd know it's not a discussion thread. So if you want to defend the show, you are on the wrong thread.

[teej6]

2 hours ago, darmody said:

Well, it did technically start because Robert's betrothed was supposedly abducted. Robert wanted his wife-to-be back. Ned's father and brother were killed because they demanded justice. The king called for Ned's head because Ned was their son and brother. John Arryn jumped in because Ned and Robert were his wards. That's three armies--from the North, the Stormlands, and the Vale--motivated directly by what Bran says was a lie. Other houses, like the Lannisters, joined for personal and strategic reasons. 

The North or the Stormlands did not call their banners or declare war after Lyanna went missing or even after Brandon and Rickard were killed. It was Jon Arryn who first called his banners because he defied the King and the IT in refusing to hand over Ned and Robert. So RR was about getting rid of a mad king who had just killed a high lord for no cause and was asking for heads of his son and heir and another high lord. So no, RR's was not built on a lie. RR started because a paranoid and unstable monarch began executing his vassals without cause.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I've only seen clips online, not the full episode, but I have some mini-rants.

Sad Sack Theon is getting on my nerves. Sad Sack Theon defeating Ironborn Mid-level Manager #3 was stupid, but luckily all the Ironborn flunkies were even more stupid so Theon has a crew now. Maybe he'll cheer up?

Tyrion's been an idiot.

Jaime's been an idiot. But he's finally maybe fixing that.

Cersei's been an evil idiot.

Euron is so disappointing, the only way he can redeem himself in my eyes is if he goes to collect the GC and then heads north because he's decided he's going to be the hero. And really that would kind of suck too, but at least he'd be interesting.

Lost count of the times I've seen references online to epic boatsex. That was not epic. But I would like to know what hairspray Dany uses because those braids were locked in place, despite the rolling around and hands in the hair. Could it be that famous old Valyrian recipe Voila Dohairys?

Ice-wighted dragons should not be able to breathe fire. White Walker dragons also should not be able to breathe fire. Turning it blue is also stupid. D&D have never heard of Tessarion, apparently. And while we're on the subject, ice preserves, so unless those holes in Viserion's wings are from spear-dodging practice, something is messed up in here.

LF's death was probably the biggest letdown for me. I get why they had Arya be the one to kill him, after all they gave Ramsay to Sansa. But they really missed some great opportunities. Establish Bran's credibility as a witness by having him mention LF's accusing Lord Royce of disloyalty back in the Vale last season. Add a little extra by having Bran say that LF was the one who convinced Joffrey to go with execution for Ned.

Sam and Bran, between the two of them should have figured out that Bran's weirnet download currently makes him like an encyclopedia. He has the info but he has to look it up. Think of the fun they could have with Sam asking for different articles like "How to defeat the Night King for Dummies."

No Arya and Gendry reunion? No Ghost? No Nymeria rallying her troops to go north and fight? No logic either apparently.

[darmody]

19 hours ago, Yukle said:

Lyanna: What if he dies?

Rhaegar: Well, I can't imagine how I would ever overcome the grief of that, nor would I function as a human any more, I'd be so overwhelmed with sadness. Naming my next boy Aegon would be a direct blow to my heart, a mortal stab to my emotions that I cannot imagine.

Lyanna: I'll take that as a yes

I don't know how common it was in the Middle Ages, but back when more babies died it was a Thing for parents to reuse names. To honor the dead ones, or for the same reason they gave the first one the name. In this case, to honor Aegon.

Alexander Hamilton had two sons named Philip for similar reasons. Just saying. 

I don't know the timeline,exactly, if Jon was named after the first son died. But even if he wasn't, the first son was delegitimized by the annulment. May be Rhaegar really wanted his heir to be named Aegon. 

[darmody]

34 minutes ago, teej6 said:

The North or the Stormlands did not call their banners or declare war after Lyanna went missing or even after Brandon and Rickard were killed. It was Jon Arryn who first called his banners because he defied the King and the IT in refusing to hand over Ned and Robert. So RR was about getting rid of a mad king who had just killed a high lord for no cause and was asking for heads of his son and heir and another high lord. So no, RR's was not built on a lie. RR started because a paranoid and unstable monarch began executing his vassals without cause.

Without cause, yes. But only after Starks showed up demanding justice for Lyanna. And Robert and Ned weren't vassal lords picked at random. Both were directly tied to the abduction scandal. Robert was her intended and Ned was the next Stark in line and Lyanna's brother. The Mad King was getting rid of everyone who could be expected to cause trouble on account of Lyanna. 

I don't want to downplay the rebellion being about the king's mental unfitness to rule. That was probably the deciding factor. But let's not ignore the fact that the chain of events leading to the Arryn-Stark-Baratheon alliance wasn't the king killing random lords. It was the king killing lords who came to protest a particular issue, then calling for the heads of the next family member in line and another guy intimately tied to that particular issue. 

[Hoo]

1 hour ago, darmody said:

Littlefinger was by no means Sansa's servant. He was Lord Protector of the Vale, looking after the interests of Sweetrobin Arryn. 

I don't know about that.

LF killed Joffrey.  LF killed Lysa when she threatened Sansa.  LF appointed SweetRobyn to take hold of the army of Vale, to win back the north.

Then LF, took Sansa to Boltons to destroy them.  He told Ramsey not to harm her.  He told Sansa, Stannis is about to attack the Boltons.  He will win and install you as the Queen of the North.  But if Stannis fails, the army of Vale will come and free Sansa.  Then he went to Cersei to tell her that Boltons have betrayed the Lannisters by marrying Ramsey to Sansa, and Cersei gave him permission to attack them.

And LF went and killed Ramsey Bolton.

LF did the most epic stuff on the show, killed Joffrey and Ramsey, and won back the Winterfell for the kids.  And then got killed for it.

[darmody]

Jon-boy says he's committed to the Dragon Queen, and even Tyrion acts like this is news. Jon and Dany didn't bother telling anyone until they were face to face with their enemy? What?

Jon is so very stupid. Dany, the young girl unschooled in the art of everything or whatever, has been shown to at least be competent. Why treat their alliance and his knee-bending like it's a secret affair, or something? 

[teej6]

15 minutes ago, darmody said:

Without cause, yes. But only after Starks showed up demanding justice for Lyanna. And Robert and Ned weren't vassal lords picked at random. Both were directly tied to the abduction scandal. Robert was her intended and Ned was the next Stark in line and Lyanna's brother. The Mad King was getting rid of everyone who could be expected to cause trouble on account of Lyanna. 

I don't want to downplay the rebellion being about the king's mental unfitness to rule. That was probably the deciding factor. But let's not ignore the fact that the chain of events leading to the Arryn-Stark-Baratheon alliance wasn't the king killing random lords. It was the king killing lords who came to protest a particular issue, then calling for the heads of the next family member in line and another guy intimately tied to that particular issue. 

Again, none of your arguments justify the RR was built on a lie line in the show. And it was one hot headed Stark who showed up challenging the crown prince not "the Starks". We are not given any indication in the show or books that Rickard Stark, the Lord of Winterfell, had any intention of challenging the King or the crown prince. Anyway, as I said before this is not a discussion thread.

[darmody]

20 minutes ago, Hoo said:

I don't know about that.

LF killed Joffrey.  LF killed Lysa when she threatened Sansa.  LF appointed SweetRobyn to take hold of the army of Vale, to win back the north.

Then LF, took Sansa to Boltons to destroy them.  He told Ramsey not to harm her.  He told Sansa, Stannis is about to attack the Boltons.  He will win and install you as the Queen of the North.  But if Stannis fails, the army of Vale will come and free Sansa.  Then he went to Cersei to tell her that Boltons have betrayed the Lannisters by marrying Ramsey to Sansa, and Cersei gave him permission to attack them.

And LF went and killed Ramsey Bolton.

LF did the most epic stuff on the show, killed Joffrey and Ramsey, and won back the Winterfell for the kids.  And then got killed for it.

He didn't appoint Sweetrobin. Sweetrobin was Lord of the Vale before the show even started, on account of his father dying. Admittedly, Littlefinger had a hand in killing Jon Arryn, so I suppose he technically made Robin Lord. 

What does giving Sansa to the Boltons have to do with destroying them? I never understood this, and I'm not sure the showrunners do either. He could've negotiated with Stannis to install Sansa as Lady of Winterfell after his victory, should he have won, without her physically being in Winterfell. "Hey, Stan. I've got Ned Stark's trueborn daughter at the Eyrie." Who was he going to install in her place? The Red Witch? 

He could've used the pretense of Sansa being abducted to justify invading the North. But he didn't need justification. He already had it from the Lannisters. Anyway, plenty of people saw Littlefinger bring Sansa to the Boltons. He didn't act like it was a secret. The kidnapping story wouldn't hold. 

Littlefinger saved the day at the Battle of the Bastards through show-magic, because his army teleported north for hundred of miles without being detected. Then he relied on the makeshift army of Jon the Know-Nothing, which lured Ramsey out of his fortress. I'm not sure the Vale army could've gotten into Winterfell otherwise. 

But give Littlefinger credit for killing the worst villains not named Cersei on the show: Joffrey and Ramsey. Yay!

But he didn't get killed for that he got killed for things about which Starks should be expected to care. He killed the Starkies' aunt, though that was actually for Sansa's benefit.

He betrayed Ned.

He tried to have Bran killed.

He played the largest role of any individual, including Joffrey (who cut of poor dead Ned's head) and Cersei/Jaime (who cuckolded the king and put the line of succession in chaos), in causing the War of Five Kings.

He sent Sansa off to be brutalized by a sadist for no good reason. 

Finally, he conspired to have Arya killed. 

[Le Cygne]

3 hours ago, StepStark said:

"Play with her arse"... "You are a serious boy with a serious cock"... "Stannis has personality of a lobster"... "Did you ever make the eight Sir Barristan?"... "I hear that the prince is a right royal prick"... "Think of all those southern girls he gets to stab with his right royal prick"...

That's all from season one, and just from the top of my head. D&D's dialogue was always disastrous, only people didn't really pay attention to it earlier because the plot (taken from the books) was much better than it is today.

Yeah, it's always been bad, but before they had GRRM's good characterization and plotting as a framework.

Also this is from later but reflective of all of it: Nothing isn't better or worse than anything. Nothing is just nothing.

[Blackwater Revenant]

Apparently, what the show runners took out of the five books worth of the developing relationship between Jon and Ghost that GGRM wrote.

A Game of Thrones - Jon I

Quote

 

Jon had started drinking then, and he had not stopped.

Something rubbed against his leg beneath the table. Jon saw red eyes staring up at him. "Hungry again?" he asked. There was still half a honeyed chicken in the center of the table. Jon reached out to tear off a leg, then had a better idea. He knifed the bird whole and let the carcass slide to the floor between his legs. Ghost ripped into it in savage silence. His brothers and sisters had not been permitted to bring their wolves to the banquet, but there were more curs than Jon could count at this end of the hall, and no one had said a word about his pup. He told himself he was fortunate in that too.

 

 

[desire]

EVERY ONE HAS BEARDS 

[Red Hound]

The Mountain is always very quick to move in front of Cersei to deter any aggression by people who have no intention to do so. The very first time that Cersei is in actual danger (the wight), he doesn't move at all.

 

 

[3sm1r]

36 minutes ago, Red Hound said:

The Mountain is always very quick to move in front of Cersei to deter any aggression by people who have no intention to do so. The very first time that Cersei is in actual danger (the wight), he doesn't move at all.

True that. By the way, the wight directly moved precisely toward Cersei as if he was domesticated to do so.

[Yoren Luck]

When Jon and Tyrion were talking on the boat ride into Kings Landing, could they please have had Tyrion say the population was half a million, not a million.  That number is ridiculous unless they mean the entire crownlands, and even then seems way high.  Also, when Jon then responds about why so many people would live there, could they please have had Tyrion not mention brothels ffs.  Say its because there are more jobs (that's a fair point) and then have hims say a quip about how "the weather is better than in the North - it hardly ever snows in Kings Landing"

That way, when Jaime is leaving near the end of the episode and the snow begins to fall, it creates a nice set-up/parallel.  This shit is not hard to write.  Why do they fail so hard and have to include brothels and cocks all the time rather than a nice tidbit that sets up the fact that the winter that is approaching is going to be uncommonly harsh and long.

[Yoren Luck]

On 8/28/2017 at 1:20 AM, The Onion Kniggit said:

If the leaks for the first episode is correct than it looks like they finally remembered the Stormlands existed....

Jesus

 

I responded to this yesterday with a joke about how that should tell you the leaks are fake, since the Stormlands haven't been mentioned in the show in ages...but now that I've had some time to think about it, it would not surprise me if D&D drum up some extra conflict to draw out next season by having Euron back stab Cersei.  Think about it - he goes and gets the Golden Company, and between them and his own men has probably enough of a force to take half of Westeros pretty quickly.  I could easily see D&D doing this, when them landing in the Stormlands and taking the Reach and possibly even the Throne.  Lots of options for shoehorning in more conflict if they want, and it would be the type of 'twist' to the story they are capable of writing (meaning a GRRM plotline they have taken from other characters not in the show, and butchered it to force it into Euron's arc)