[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[Blackwater Revenant]

33 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

1) There was enough dialogue already in the season to explain why she didn't attack King's Landing.

First off, the comment you are responding to, specifically stated "when the negotiations broke down."

Second, Yes it was explained, and that dialogue stayed true to the only consistencies found throughout the entire show; In that it was stupid, illogical, and contrived. One must completely shut off their brain in order to buy the explanation that was given.

And third, this is an inappropriate thread to be defending and honey-potting over the plot holes found in the show.

[Blackwater Revenant]

8 minutes ago, Verily said:

The move has a lot of potential for turning the city and other regions against Dany, thus hurting the effort against the AiD.

You mean similarly to the way blowing up the Sept, and murdering many high lords, the beloved Queen, etc. turned everyone against Cercei?

[plastic throne]

2 minutes ago, Verily said:

Because the point of the gathering was to establish a truce and join forces. Roasting the queen in a backstabbing dishonorable move would turn/scatter her forces and Dany would be no better than Cersei. The move has a lot of potential for turning the city and other regions against Dany, thus hurting the effort against the AiD. Such a move could even turn Jon and Tryion against her as well. 

What other forces though? She has zero.

Also, why would the people resent and rebell vs Danny (as powerful as she is) for burning few unpopular tyrants but they can't do the same for Cersei and she has blown the Vatican of Westeros along with thousands of innocents and popular queen. Also Cersei, unlike Danny, has zero support. No houses, no army,... 

In fact, I'm baffled how she is even alive at this point. She should been overthrown long ago with the city either falling into total chaos or someone else, an oportunist crowned as king.

[Nowy Tends]

4 minutes ago, Verily said:

 The move has a lot of potential for turning the city and other regions against Dany,

The city and the regions who didn't say a word when Cersei blowned up the Great Sept of Baelor, killing the Queen, the Queen's family, the religious leader, hundreds of people? KL is populated by cowardly sheeps, what's the risk?

[Armand Gargalen]

10 minutes ago, Verily said:

Cept the population doesn't know Cersei did it. Many suspect, but there is no proof. When Cersei talks with Tarly and the other lords they allude to knowing she did it, but no proof she did. 

 

I guess Hot Pie has an impressive spy network in KL then

 

[Dragonslack]

Welcome to the world of westeros, where a disease called naivete invaded the body of the dead jon and quickly spread to all around him. That and stupidity, consequence of the brain damage suffered before resurrection. He was even not all that smart from the beginning. 

How else to explain the cockamamie plan of the wight/cerci? They all believe the insane, liar, enemy, murderer, heretic upstart queen?

The smart and sophisticated dwarf was obviously taken over by the greenseer nk and is now playing all angles for the undead cause. Nobody notices due to the jon disease also created by the nk. There is nothing that guy can't do, once he stopped running around in circles that is.

 

How about Sam tries to convince the maesters but they need proof. The meeting is held there and as they said, call upon all the lords of the land to help? Also they research everything and provide much needed support and technology?

It would also be easy for bran to prove his powers, but why is he the one writing, it should be the king of the north and all the witnesses he can get, like all of the night's watch. If sam can get to winterfell so easily so can a maester go and take a look at the wall.

By the way they have no reaction to qyburn and his abomination? That alone would entice them to action.

 

How about sansa leads lf on, because that is his weakness but then tricks him completely and finds a way to take over the influence of the whole vale forces? She uses bran knowledge but only in the background, to find ideas and proof. She uses arya's skills but also in the background making lf a fool by changing faces. Maybe because that would make sansa clever or evil and lf the victim, I guess.

[Nowy Tends]

44 minutes ago, Verily said:

Cept the population doesn't know Cersei did it. Many suspect, but there is no proof.

It was HER trial and she's the only one who wasn't killed because she wasn't present; her son commits suicide (and not in the most discreet manner), and bingo! she gets herself crowned by a deposed maester… if that's not a proof…

[Oursisthechicken]

I´ve been lurking in these threads for 5 years,

But after this season I need to rant too.

Oh boy, where shall I start... 

- Why are the kingsguard all wearing black?

- Is there even a kingsguard?

- Drogon could/should've roasted Cersei and Euron right there, according to show logic when the head of the house dies all their armies commit mass suicide, for reference see the Reach and Dorne armies being non existant.

- Why is Cersei still alive? Why is she queen? My guess is that in the show if you kill someone you inherit all their titles, the sand snakes killed doran and Dorne was ruled by a bunch of bastards for awhile, I guess Arya is now the new lord protector of the Vale and Lord Paramount of the Trident. 

- Why is Bronze Yohn still in the north, there are two mad queens with teleporting armies raging war all over the country but the Vale army sees no need to protect their home and liege lord.

- Where are all the lords? Who controls the riverlands? Walder Frey is dead, LF the lord paramount is also dead and Edmure is MIA. Who controls the Stormlands? Who controls Dorne? There 7 Kingdoms and  yet in the show it seems Westeros is the size of a football field.

- Where is the night's watch?

- Arya trained to be an assassin! The main prerogative of being an assassin is killing your victims with stealth not challenge them to a duel, she has no business fighting on equal footing with the likes of Brienne.

- SO MUUUUUCCHHHH FAN SERVICE!! And memes WTF am I watching. One of my favorite characters from the book ( Lord Davos Seaworth) was turned into a meme machine sidekick.

- Robert's Rebellion was based on a lie??? ( I said this in the proper thread but I'll say it here too) The only lie about RR is the death of Prince Lewin Martel,l the man fought to protect the rights of his niece and grandnephew. But guess what Lewin? You died side by side with a douche that disowned Elia and her children and he didnt even had the guts to tell you, what a class act that Rhaegar guy was...

- Sam Tarly cured the motherfcking plague!!! A disease that has been killing people for centuries yet in this shitshow that fact was completly glossed over, like it happens every other tuesday.

- Emilia Clarke CANT ACT!! Watch any thing shes in and cringe,shes not just terrible has Dany, she was a terrible Sarah Connor and she was also terrible in Jude Law's Dom Hemingway.

- Mr Viserionchtev tear down that wall ( The night king is Ronald Reagan). Now seriously if he hadnt been gifted a dragon what was the plan? Roam the frozen wastes till some guy ( there is no nights watch) letf a door through the wall open?

- The show became boring, predictable and dumb, the exact opposite of ASOIAF. 

- Finally when you sacrifice plot consistence and logic to have cool cinematic shots ( the chains, the wight in KL not moving or making any noises and so) you enter the realm of the Fast and Furious franchise and that is not quality TV, why this garbage praised?

Thank you guys for five years of laughter hope to participate more in 2019 when S8 hits and hope that we all have TWoW in our homes by then.

Edit: Phrasing (Boom!) and syntax

[Tadco26]

The most reasonable explanation for most of the bad scenes and adaptations is the writers want to consolidate as many scenes as possible and reduce the number of different locations and separate story lines.  They want to do this and still hit certain plot points from the book that they like, regardless of whether the plot point still makes sense after the other changes they made.  Some of that is understandable.  You can't have an unlimited cast and you have limited screen time, and you can't have high paid actors go multiple episodes with no scenes, so combining them where possible reduces that problem. And any change they make is going to draw some criticism from some fans.  I'm sympathetic to that challenge.  I'm just not a fan of the way they often drastically change things and then force plot points from the book in when the changes they made no longer make that plot point logical. 

Or that they have a map as the opening credits and ignore the logistics of travel completely.  Which certainly doesn't mean we need to watch the entire trip on screen, and yes time can pass without explicitly stating how much time... But things like Gendry running back to the wall, someone writing and sending a raven, it arriving in Dragon Stone, getting delivered to Dany, she debates what to do with Tyrion, then flies half a continent away to save Jon's party which she locates in land she has never been to before...  Then we leave the White Walkers at that spot which is a distance Gendry ran in less than a day, and Sam reaches Winterfell from Old Town faster than the wights reach the wall to tear it down...  Or consistency in what it takes to kill a wight.  In season 1, a single wight has to be burned for Jon to defeat him. In Hardhome they shift from sometimes dying from a single swing of Jon's sword to being stabbed by Longclaw and shot by arrows for no effect, to dying from one swing from every character this season.  Consistency goes a long way in helping to suspend disbelief, especially in a fantasy setting.  Or logical character motivations.  I get that any change is going to be criticized, but we are beyond the books and too many scenes feel like they happen because the writers want them to, rather than any consideration of why the characters would logically behave that way.

[Verily]

5 hours ago, Armand Gargalen said:

I guess Hot Pie has an impressive spy network in KL then

 

I'll concede that. I initially took it like when the rumors spread about her children, wildly believed but of course no official acknowledgement by Cersei. If she did acknowledge her part in the Sept outside of her inner circle I don't recall the scene. 

[Maid So Fair]

7 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

1) There was enough dialogue already in the season to explain why she didn't attack King's Landing.

2) I'd imagine the army was brought down for two purposes.  Firstly as a demonstration of power.  Secondly as a deterrent for Cersei to pull a "Mad King".

1, They talked about it, sure, but the reasons didn't exactly make a lot of sense. Trying to preserve lives is nice and all, but people were always going to die in a war and when faced with the proposition of potentially fighting war on two fronts then it becomes even more nonsensical. Cersei, by rejecting the truce, is directly endangering lives of millions of people. A quick, surgical strike against her is going to lead to a lot less casualties that any alternative.

2, If you fear an attack and don't trust your opponent, why would you ever agree to a meeting that involves your enemy bringing thousands of troops to your gates? It's just stupid. Then again it never made sense why they were meeting in KL - generally, you would expect them to meet at neutral ground, with each party only bringing X men (and definitely no dragons). Theres literally nothing stopping Dany from turning around and sacking KL once the negotiations break down (which was apparently a part of Cersei's plan all along), which is apparent even if you're not completely paranoid like Cersei is supposed to be. 

[Maid So Fair]

6 hours ago, Armand Gargalen said:

I guess Hot Pie has an impressive spy network in KL then

 

Hot Pie is a faceless man confirmed. I think he's going to become the next Varys, using his contacts in bakeries around the world to gather intelligence, sending secret messages baked into croissants.

[Ser Quork]

7 hours ago, Snormund said:

Pretty sure I came up with Todd Snow on my own

You were the first I saw using it.  Apply ™ to it.  

[Armand Gargalen]

4 hours ago, Oursisthechicken said:

I´ve been lurking in these threads for 5 years,

But after this season I need to rant too.

Oh boy, where shall I start... 

- Why are the kingsguard all wearing black?

- Is there even a kingsguard?

- Drogon could/should've roasted Cersei and Euron right there, according to show logic when the head of the house dies all their armies commit mass suicide, for reference see the Reach and Dorne armies being non existant.

- Why is Cersei still alive? Why is she queen? My guess is that in the show if you kill someone you inherit all their titles, the sand snakes killed doran and Dorne was ruled by a bunch of bastards for awhile, I guess Arya is now the new lord protector of the Vale and Lord Paramount of the Trident. 

- Why is Bronze Yohn still in the north, there are two mad queens with teleporting armies raging war all over the country but the Vale army sees no need to protect their home and liege lord.

- Where are all the lords? Who controls the riverlands? Walder Frey is dead, LF the lord paramount is also dead and Edmure is MIA. Who controls the Stormlands? Who controls Dorne? There 7 Kingdoms and  yet in the show it seems Westeros is the size of a football field.

- Where is the night's watch?

- Arya trained to be an assassin! The main prerogative of being an assassin is killing your victims with stealth not challenge them to a duel, she has no business fighting on equal footing with the likes of Brienne.

- SO MUUUUUCCHHHH FAN SERVICE!! And memes WTF am I watching. One of my favorite characters from the book ( Lord Davos Seaworth) was turned into a meme machine sidekick.

- Robert's Rebellion was based on a lie??? ( I said this in the proper thread but I'll say it here too) The only lie about RR is the death of Prince Lewin Martel,l the man fought to protect the rights of his niece and grandnephew. But guess what Lewin? You died side by side with a douche that disowned Elia and her children and he didnt even had the guts to tell you, what a class act that Rhaegar guy was...

- Sam Tarly cured the motherfcking plague!!! A disease that has been killing people for centuries yet in this shitshow that fact was completly glossed over, like it happens every other tuesday.

- Emilia Clarke CANT ACT!! Watch any thing shes in and cringe,shes not just terrible has Dany, she was a terrible Sarah Connor and she was also terrible in Jude Law's Dom Hemingway.

- Mr Viserionchtev tear down that wall ( The night king is Ronald Reagan). Now seriously if he hadnt been gifted a dragon what was the plan? Roam the frozen wastes till some guy ( there is no nights watch) letf a door through the wall open?

- The show became boring, predictable and dumb, the exact opposite of ASOIAF. 

- Finally when you sacrifice plot consistence and logic to have cool cinematic shots ( the chains, the wight in KL not moving or making any noises and so) you enter the realm of the Fast and Furious franchise and that is not quality TV, why this garbage praised?

Thank you guys for five years of laughter hope to participate more in 2019 when S8 hits and hope that we all have TWoW in our homes by then.

Edit: Phrasing (Boom!) and syntax

Welcome to the forums and the ranters thread. 

[darmody]

22 hours ago, Fiery Heart said:

I'm confused why anything thinks Littlefinger had a trial, clearly he did not. He was  guilty of his crimes, Sansa and Arya know this as fact, so was executed. What the hell would be the point of a trial

If we had omniscient, magical, tree-worshiping raven-people in real life, then we wouldn't need trials. But that doesn't exist in this world, nor was it known to exist in the Universe-os until like two seconds ago.

We don't even know if Sansa and Arya know about Bran's superpowers, let alone the whole court. There's no reason for most people to believe they know for sure Littlefinger is guilty of most of the crimes of which he's accused. 

Even if Littlefinger confesses, which he did to killing Auntie Lysa, there would still be an official process, I should think. Which is a good thing, no matter how certain are those passing judgement. 

[darmody]

19 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, if anything they should have executed Sandra as LF's primary accomplice. Well past any lack of choice on her part, she enabled his nefarious plans. She chose to go along with him, lying for him to the Vale lords and withholding the truth from the Lord of the Vale, covering up for him every step of the way, enabling his plans in the Vale, with the Boltons, and with Winterfell, taking Winterfell with the Vale troops, which as he said to her and to Cersei he intended to do all along anyway. She deliberately withheld the troops from Jon and the North that led to many deaths. She should have been on trial, if there was going to be a trial, which there was not.

And of course never addressed is that LF said flat out on the show he's the one who had Sandra wear the poisoned necklace that killed Joffrey. He also gave Ros to Joffrey, I mean, if they wanted to actually nail him for what he really did, then why not say it all? And since it was a kangaroo court, and could have happened at any point, why not kill him at the beginning of season 6, Robert Arryn sent the troops for her ("she's my cousin") and all they had to do was tell him LF lied and was the one who delivered her to the Boltons instead of taking her to the Fingers (which Bronze Yohn knows he also lied about).

And the slow learner stuff, that was just to cover up that she was his accomplice and more stupid than is necessary to sustain life.

If they killed him off at the beginning of Season Six, they couldn't do what passes for character development on this show, which was to show Sansa was capable of being sneaky with Littlefinger (which she already did in previous seasons) and was a Strong, Independent Woman who could save the day after Jon--who still knows nothing--almost screwed everything up. 

In actual fact, they made her a whiney know-it-all who gives vague, useless advice then pouts when she doesn't get her way and commits what's tantamount to treason because she doesn't trust her own kind. None of which she has to answer for, by the way. She gets to continue to pout and share unmeaningful looks with Pete "leans-on-walls" Littlefinger for another season. 

[darmody]

12 hours ago, Tadco26 said:

The answer is like most things that make little sense in the show; because the writers said so, they knew there wasn't going to be a betrayal so no reason to think about how it would logically be prevented by either side.  Speaking of the meeting, why wasn't Littlefinger invited as Lord Protector of the Vale?

Why wasn't Edmure Tully present, for that matter? Oh yeah, he's stuck in the Twilight Zone. 

There should also be empty chairs for the Stormlands (or bring Gendry for the heck of it?), the Reach, and Dorne. 

[darmody]

10 hours ago, Maid So Fair said:

I'm still baffled why Dany didn't immediately attack KL when the negotiations broke down. Also, who brings their entire army to a peace conference? And what idiot allows it? The KL annual midle-managment conference was just so bad.

Just think of the logistics. They're acting like the Army of Dead is coming tomorrow. (And they're right, thanks to the dragon they gifted to it!) Before going North, they travel to King's Landing. Which isn't far from Dragonstone, relatively speaking. But it is far from Eastwatch, where Dany and Jon were a second ago.

It's pretty far away from Casterly Rock, where the Unsullied were hanging out last we checked. The Dothraki were nearby, having recently destroyed the Lannister/Reach army. (I think?) But there are like 100,000 or whatever of them. At least that's a figure I remember hearing once. They have to ride in, screaming for some reason, to sit before they match where they're needed. 

A giant undertaking for a bit of theater. Especially when, if you have threatened to burn the Red Keep down should negotiations fail, you have your high-speed transportation and Death from Above machines at the ready. 

[RhaenysBee]

5 hours ago, Oursisthechicken said:

I´ve been lurking in these threads for 5 years,

But after this season I need to rant too.

Oh boy, where shall I start... 

- Why are the kingsguard all wearing black?

- Is there even a kingsguard?

- Drogon could/should've roasted Cersei and Euron right there, according to show logic when the head of the house dies all their armies commit mass suicide, for reference see the Reach and Dorne armies being non existant.

- Why is Cersei still alive? Why is she queen? My guess is that in the show if you kill someone you inherit all their titles, the sand snakes killed doran and Dorne was ruled by a bunch of bastards for awhile, I guess Arya is now the new lord protector of the Vale and Lord Paramount of the Trident. 

- Why is Bronze Yohn still in the north, there are two mad queens with teleporting armies raging war all over the country but the Vale army sees no need to protect their home and liege lord.

- Where are all the lords? Who controls the riverlands? Walder Frey is dead, LF the lord paramount is also dead and Edmure is MIA. Who controls the Stormlands? Who controls Dorne? There 7 Kingdoms and  yet in the show it seems Westeros is the size of a football field.

- Where is the night's watch?

- Arya trained to be an assassin! The main prerogative of being an assassin is killing your victims with stealth not challenge them to a duel, she has no business fighting on equal footing with the likes of Brienne.

- SO MUUUUUCCHHHH FAN SERVICE!! And memes WTF am I watching. One of my favorite characters from the book ( Lord Davos Seaworth) was turned into a meme machine sidekick.

- Robert's Rebellion was based on a lie??? ( I said this in the proper thread but I'll say it here too) The only lie about RR is the death of Prince Lewin Martel,l the man fought to protect the rights of his niece and grandnephew. But guess what Lewin? You died side by side with a douche that disowned Elia and her children and he didnt even had the guts to tell you, what a class act that Rhaegar guy was...

- Sam Tarly cured the motherfcking plague!!! A disease that has been killing people for centuries yet in this shitshow that fact was completly glossed over, like it happens every other tuesday.

- Emilia Clarke CANT ACT!! Watch any thing shes in and cringe,shes not just terrible has Dany, she was a terrible Sarah Connor and she was also terrible in Jude Law's Dom Hemingway.

- Mr Viserionchtev tear down that wall ( The night king is Ronald Reagan). Now seriously if he hadnt been gifted a dragon what was the plan? Roam the frozen wastes till some guy ( there is no nights watch) letf a door through the wall open?

- The show became boring, predictable and dumb, the exact opposite of ASOIAF. 

- Finally when you sacrifice plot consistence and logic to have cool cinematic shots ( the chains, the wight in KL not moving or making any noises and so) you enter the realm of the Fast and Furious franchise and that is not quality TV, why this garbage praised?

Thank you guys for five years of laughter hope to participate more in 2019 when S8 hits and hope that we all have TWoW in our homes by then.

Edit: Phrasing (Boom!) and syntax

It is a happy day for the internet that you decided to stop lurking and come forward with a nice rant. 

90% agreed, the show is at this point a parody of itself.

[Ser Quork]

23 hours ago, Fiery Heart said:

I'm confused why anything thinks Littlefinger had a trial, clearly he did not. He was  guilty of his crimes, Sansa and Arya know this as fact, so was executed. What the hell would be the point of a trial?

Remember Tyrion's first trial where he demanded trial by combat even though Robin wanted to see the little man fly?  Remember Tyrion's second trial - the one over a number of episodes?  Cersei was convinced he was guilty but he still had a hearing and was allowed to bring witnesses (although he couldn't get any) and he was entitled to trial by combat if he asked (just as LF would have been in a proper story).  Nowadays though we aren't given any sophistication or detail or character-building, just Branbot exposition (which can't possibly be treated "as fact") and Arya slashing his throat (once LF conveniently kneels so Arya can reach, of course).  

I think a trial of LF could have been interesting if the show-writers had bothered to engage their brains to collate the evidence for real witnesses.  But no, they wanted that daft Perry Mason moment with another psycho-Arya knife-slash.