[Poll] How would you rate episode 707?

[Sielk]

32 minutes ago, Valandil said:

This quote perfectly encapsulates what's going on in this forum. Ridiculous, petty stuff. As a book reader since 96 and long time theoriser on this board and its many previous iterations I am delighted to be seeing the resolution of so many story threads. Jon is Aegon Targaryen and legitimate heir, Sansa was on to little finger and has disposed of him, there is an ice dragon, the wall has come down, jaime has left cersei and gone north, and much more. Be in no doubt that George gave them these plot points. This is what he intends to happen. George will never finish these books at current pace. Having the story finished by the most spectacular tv show in history is to be welcomed. Compare it to the vast bulk of rubbish that constitutes most tv! This is a gem! 10! 10!

I agree. I have also read the books even if I am not one of those who read it countless times.

Of course not everything in the show is well done and some criticism is justified but what some of the users are doing here is not serious criticism, it's blatant hate.

It's one thing to complain about plot holes when wights who can't cross a small gap in the ice suddenly pull a giant dragon out of the water but when people rant about every single episode and every detail in it that's not constructive anymore.

If you know beforehand that you will never like anything that's not written in the books stop watching the show. But don't start ranting here after every new episode because yes, we have understood that there are people who can't stand the show and reading the whole hate posts over and over is just annoying.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Sielk

[elder brother jonothor dar]

Satisfying 

Gave it a 10 expectations where low after last 2 episodes, dialog heavy which I was not expecting but we are back to the good old days of political intrigue and back stabbing which we have missed this season in the relentless march to get on with things.

 

Overall found this seaon very good, certain events/character meetings have been forced but desire to come to a conclusion has been admirably done something GRRM should think about.  CGI and battles have blown me away.

Great end to set up next season

 

[Cron]

49 minutes ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

9/10 for me.

A good deal new was learned--Jon's true name, Cersei's plan with Euron, what happens when the NK reanimates a dragon, how The Wall looks tumbling down, what it looks like when KINT and his aunt bump nasties, and how LF dies.  All that coupled with the great Dragon Pitt scene/reunions and you've got a winning episode in my book.

I guess technically now that the Dothraki are on Westeros that's true.

It felt like it came 3 episodes too late. Basically the whole LF/Arya/Sansa plot was drawn out drama that was well telegraphed and led to a very predictable conclusion. The whole dagger plot was just glossed over in the litany of LF's crimes. It felt a bit anticlimactic. It's a subpar scene in terms of writing compared to S1-5; however, in terms of performance, it is on point. And with all that being said, I liked seeing the Starks score a win. 

Yeah, I think you're probably right, it came about 3 episodes later than it should have.

I think it would have been much more realistic for Bran to show up and tell Sansa "Uhhhhh...you know that guy's evil, right??  Oh, no, you didn't know that, not really?  Well, lemme tell you what he's been up to for the last 6 or 7 years..."  After which LF would have been crossed off within about 30 minutes or so of Bran being wheeled into Winterfell.

But they saved it for the finale, and I thought it was worth it when it finally came.

[Leto Atreides]

This episode was ok, but "bring Cercei a wight" is still the dumbest thing ever. Why would she or anyone in King's Landing care about that living corpse after seeing the zombie Mountain for months and 2 flying dragons?

This whole truce attempt made no sense. Cercei is cornered and could be ended quickly by Dany at this point, I hate how they pretend she's somehow an equal opposition.

Edited August 29, 2017 by Leto Atreides

[plastic throne]

2 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

In the spirit of Jon Snow, let's be honest.  This forum existed long before the show and is well known for being the most fanatical ASOIAF and GRRM fan site on the internet.

The moment GRRM seemed to distance himself from the show, so did a lot of people on this forum.

Most of the rants are instantly dismissible because they're either extremely petty or obviously from posters who are extremely bitter that one of their favourite stories is being spoiled (in their eyes ruined) before the books finish the series.  They have it in for the show and will never give the show any credit.  The sad thing is that many of them seem to make it their mission to try their hardest to prejudice other people against the show also.  To what aim, I have no idea.  I personally think it's all rather pathetic.

I could say some stuff for 10/10 posters and their reasoning behind it but choose not to.

Some can ignore all the bad (and there's A LOT of it) and get hyped because some line of text or something (like dragons)... But many can't because it breaks their immersion. Many people ask question regarding the show they watch, seek answers and do not take everything and every explanation as the logical one.

But saying that the show is high quality in writing, that is just plain lie, blindness or w/e reason. But mostly just being unable to recognize quality, after all, a quick glance at popular culture is more than enough for me. All surface, no depth.

[Meera of Tarth]

I give it a 4

What I liked in this episode

-Theon's having strength enough to do what he wants to do (although I'd have preferred more scenes)

-Sam and Bran's chemistry

-Jaime exchanging looks with Brienne, and Cersei with Brienne

-Jaime giving up on Cersei, the way Nikolaj played it:

Is “I don’t believe you” saying “I don’t love you” or “I don’t believe I’m going to die.” My subjects as an actor was “This is it. I don’t believe in you anymore. I don’t believe in this, you and me. I don’t love you anymore.” That’s how I played it.

-The last scene in the Wall

-Tyrion and Jaime acknowledging they are not so smart

What I didn't like...

-The wight exhibition

-Jon destroying the purpose of the wight exhibition and the wight hunt (not that I liked them)

-The trial

-The scene in which Jon and Dany have sex

-The fact that we know that Jon's name is Aegon, meaning that Rhaegar didn't care about his other children

Edited August 29, 2017 by Meera of Tarth

[SansaJonRule]

14 hours ago, the tower of albion said:

I really wish tv shows would just stop it with the cliff hangar endings I really It used to be a way to tempt the audience back for the Autumn line up. This show is beyond the rating system yet they just can't let that particular gimmick go. Didn't give a wit for Littlefingers demise - hopefully in the books it will have more reason to it as we get a final explanation to his misdeeds. Jon and Dany hooking up via a booty call was just not sexy or romantic. Rhaegar and Lyanna flash back deserved to be longer, and why was Tyrion lurking? No way they are finishing this in another six episodes. I got a bad feeling next season will lead into a movie spin off. Just don't see it finishing in six more episodes. 8.5 out of 10.

Jon Snow (Knock knock.) "Hey. You up?"

That is not what I would call a cliffhanger.  More of a wrap up of some story arcs and just setting up next season.

LF did everything he did with one goal in mind - the Iron Throne.  He told Sansa that after the BotB when they were standing under the weirwood tree.  Did you forget that scene? 

Booty call?  Did you not see the way they were looking at each other in earlier scenes?

Why do you feel the Rhaegar and Lyanna flasbacks needed to be longer?  It was enough to explain Jon's legitimate parentage.  That was it's purpose.

13 hours ago, StepStark said:

Emilia Clark was often ridiculed for her acting, but most probably she was just told to act so one-dimensionaly because D&D probably wanted her to be a big powerful woman all the time. But this season Dany is surrounded by her equals and Emilia is showing that she's not as bad as everyone was saying. She's not brilliant either, but she's easily superior to Lena Heady, whose acting is just terrible. In the negotiation scene she was literally chewing the scenery with her teeth, which is what she always does by the way, though this time it was more obvious exactly because she was acting opposite Emilia. Whatever you can say about Emilia's acting, she easily better than Lena.

And to think that Lena is D&D's most favorite actors and that they changed Cersei, and therefore the entire main plot, just to accommodate Lena, that's simply mind-blowing.

Emilia is much better as when she is being tender hearted than trying to be a badass.  I think Lena Heady's facial expressions are great, but I have always hated the way she talks, but I have never been able to describe it.  Chewing is perfect! 

19 hours ago, LucyMormont said:

Finally a fantastic episode, I enjoyed it very much. 
The whole scene in the dragon pit was great (I'll set aside Jon's stupidity, finally I've come to accept that the writers hate him, so I don't have any hope left that they'll ever write a whole episode in which Jon does not do a dumb thing). 
The storyline in Winterfell yay! Very satisfying to see  Littlefinger's fall at hands of the Stark pack. 
I loved the  face to face conversations of different characters, where they finally talked to each other and looked like normal people... this is what I missed so much lately, and it brought back the Game of Thrones feel to a show that had turned in a sort of superhero movie with no plot. The best one was Tyrion-Cersei,   kudos to Lena's performance, I hate her character and think it should have long gone, but this kind of performance is a gift to the viewer, so thank you!. 
I also liked Theon -Jon's face to face, and Arya-Sansa's at the end. 
Glad to see Theon and Jaime finally embracing their redemption arcs, better late than never.
The  dead Viserion and the fall of the Wall were visually great.

Since I enjoyed every minute of it, I could give it a 10, but on second thought, no episode without Ghost deserves a 10. So, I'll give it a 9, and it's my highest this season.

What was Jon supposed to do?  He had to be true to his nature, esp after Cersei just said that she knew Ned Stark’s son would keep his word.  It also set up Tyrion’s need to talk to Cersei privately.

A lot of people on here complain when there is a lot of conversation, but do they think a story as complex as this can be accomplished with mostly action?

[SansaJonRule]

I thought this episode was wonderful!  A solid 9.  I felt like it wrapped up a lot of story arcs, and there was a lot of good dialogue.

Good reunions in KL.  Dragon Pit scene was great.  Loved Dany's entrance and then after Cersei's terse "We've been here for some time" she says "My apologies", like oops, my bad.

Loved Tyrion and Theon dissing Euron’s dwarf joke.

After the wight was let out and everyone came to full realization of what they just saw, I was reminded of The Lord of the Rings when Elrond calls the meeting and shock on everyone's faces after Gimli's axe is shattered when he tries to destroy the ring.  It was so satisfying to see real fear on Cersei's face!  And then there is Qybburn, "hmmm, this is interesting."

Tyrion and Cersei scene was TREMENDOUS!  So good to see Tyrion back in fine form.  And Cersei - you could see the battle on her face- she wants to kill him but she can't (just like her father).  I don’t know why so many people think they should have gotten rid of Cersei’s character by now.  Without her on the throne, how could it still be Game of Thrones?

I was SO happy to see Jamie finally give up on Cersei and turn his back on her.  Hopefully he survives and both he and the Hound get to redeem themselves.

It was so satisfying to see LF on his knees, crying no less, begging for his life, and being executed with his own knife by a member of the family he betrayed and hurt the worst.  That’s what I call poetic justice.   My only regret is that he didn’t suffer.  But that’s part of what makes good guys good; they don’t torture people.  And I thought the way they had Sansa summarize how LF’s betrayal started the whole Lannister-Stark conflict was well done. 

Arya and Sansa on the rampart, acknowledging each other’s strengths and the fact that they need to stick together, finishing with their fathers’ words – that was touching.

I loved the way they tied Rhaegar and Lyanna to Jon and Dany.  I was wondering if they would get together this season or next season, but after the way theRhaegar and Lyanna to Jon and Dany.  It will be interesting to see how Jon and Dany deal with the truth of his parentage next season.

I wondered if the WW were going to have to freeze the water and go around the wall, or if they were going to find a way to destroy it.  So, I guess dragon fire is more powerful than the magic the CotF used to build the wall?  (Magic which some people seem to have forgotten is what prevents the WWs from crossing it)  At any rate, that was some awesome CGI!

[SansaJonRule]

2 hours ago, Valandil said:

This quote perfectly encapsulates what's going on in this forum. Ridiculous, petty stuff. As a book reader since 96 and long time theoriser on this board and its many previous iterations I am delighted to be seeing the resolution of so many story threads. Jon is Aegon Targaryen and legitimate heir, Sansa was on to little finger and has disposed of him, there is an ice dragon, the wall has come down, jaime has left cersei and gone north, and much more. Be in no doubt that George gave them these plot points. This is what he intends to happen. George will never finish these books at current pace. Having the story finished by the most spectacular tv show in history is to be welcomed. Compare it to the vast bulk of rubbish that constitutes most tv! This is a gem! 10! 10!

 

1 hour ago, Sielk said:

I agree. I have also read the books even if I am not one of those who read it countless times.

Of course not everything in the show is well done and some criticism is justified but what some of the users are doing here is not serious criticism, it's blatant hate.

It's one thing to complain about plot holes when wights who can't cross a small gap in the ice suddenly pull a giant dragon out of the water but when people rant about every single episode and every detail in it that's not constructive anymore.

If you know beforehand that you will never like anything that's not written in the books stop watching the show. But don't start ranting here after every new episode because yes, we have understood that there are people who can't stand the show and reading the whole hate posts over and over is just annoying.

I agree as well.  No movie/tv show is ever as good as the books and if you're going to expect it to be you are setting yourself up for disappointment.  Some of the complaints on here are so petty and it just makes more crap to wade through to find the worthwhile comments.

[Son_of_Feanor]

bookfags need to get over their ridiculous expectations that a TV show could ever replicate the subtlety and characterization of the novels.

two different art forms.  two different sets of strengths and limitations.

I get it...i'm a total Tolkien need who did not appreciate the liberties taken by Peter Jackson.  but I stopped well short of accusing all fans of the movies of being mindless climate change denyjng ombies with no appreciation for beauty.  lol 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Son_of_Feanor

[LucyMormont]

46 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

What was Jon supposed to do?  He had to be true to his nature, esp after Cersei just said that she knew Ned Stark’s son would keep his word.  It also set up Tyrion’s need to talk to Cersei privately.

May be when Cersei said "In return, the King in the North will extend this truce. He will remain in the North where he belongs. He will not take up arms against the Lannisters. He will not choose sides" he could have answered
"As I said, the Great War  is the only war that matters... I've already chosen a side, I fight for the Living. It's pointless to make promises about a future that might never come"  instead of saying "I cannot serve two queens. I've already pledged myself to the other "   Which two queens?? He was being asked to not serve any, not to choose between the two. He didn't need to serve any, he would have sticked to that, and the plot shouldnt have put him in a position of doing otherwise. That's on the writers, they want to create a bunch of new false struggles (as if we need more of those), and we'll have to thank all those upcoming false struggles (Jon-the North, Dany-Jon when they'll discover who he is,Jon-his Stark family, etc ) to that senseless "I'd bend the knee" of episode 6. 

48 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

A lot of people on here complain when there is a lot of conversation, but do they think a story as complex as this can be accomplished with mostly action?

Yes, I know, I've read people complaining about "boring dialog" in the rate thread of each episode, lol.  But those are the fans who don't care about the story, they are just happy with battles and dragons breathing fire. I do not watch this show for that. I enjoy the battles and the dragons too, but what makes it interesting for me are the characters and the story. 

[SansaJonRule]

24 minutes ago, LucyMormont said:

May be when Cersei said "In return, the King in the North will extend this truce. He will remain in the North where he belongs. He will not take up arms against the Lannisters. He will not choose sides" he could have answered
"As I said, the Great War  is the only war that matters... I've already chosen a side, I fight for the Living. It's pointless to make promises about a future that might never come"  instead of saying "I cannot serve two queens. I've already pledged myself to the other "   Which two queens?? He was being asked to not serve any, not to choose between the two. He didn't need to serve any, he would have sticked to that, and the plot shouldnt have put him in a position of doing otherwise. That's on the writers, they want to create a bunch of new false struggles (as if we need more of those), and we'll have to thank all those upcoming false struggles (Jon-the North, Dany-Jon when they'll discover who he is,Jon-his Stark family, etc ) to that senseless "I'd bend the knee" of episode 6.

She demanded that he not choose sides.  He could have tried dithering like you suggested, but she would not have accepted that, then he still would have had to admit that he had already chosen sides.  That might have made him sound more diplomatic, but remember, she had just said that she would believe him because he was Ned Stark's son, so they made him act just like his father who always cut straight to the point  (incidentally, just like Cersei and her father as well).  I think that was the point of him doing that - to show how much of Ned Stark he has in him, which will then be relevant when he finds out he is not Ned's son and he will have to recall what he told Theon.

Quote

Yes, I know, I've read people complaining about "boring dialog" in the rate thread of each episode, lol.  But those are the fans who don't care about the story, they are just happy with battles and dragons breathing fire. I do not watch this show for that. I enjoy the battles and the dragons too, but what makes it interesting for me are the characters and the story. 

How did those people make it through the first few seasons??

Edited August 29, 2017 by SansaJonRule

[Meera of Tarth]

33 minutes ago, LucyMormont said:

May be when Cersei said "In return, the King in the North will extend this truce. He will remain in the North where he belongs. He will not take up arms against the Lannisters. He will not choose sides" he could have answered
"As I said, the Great War  is the only war that matters... I've already chosen a side, I fight for the Living. It's pointless to make promises about a future that might never come"  instead of saying "I cannot serve two queens. I've already pledged myself to the other "   Which two queens?? He was being asked to not serve any, not to choose between the two. He didn't need to serve any, he would have sticked to that, and the plot shouldnt have put him in a position of doing otherwise. That's on the writers, they want to create a bunch of new false struggles (as if we need more of those), and we'll have to thank all those upcoming false struggles (Jon-the North, Dany-Jon when they'll discover who he is,Jon-his Stark family, etc ) to that senseless "I'd bend the knee" of episode 6. 

Touche. I already knew the spoilers but was clueless about this part, or barely remembered that Jon had to say it, and honestly, it felt so awckward. I didn't get why he had to say that. It made me feel so angry, because they risked their lives for this absurd plan, some men died, Viserion died, and then when it is working (in theory) he throws it away.

Jon should not be King in the North. Two seasons of incomptence. I have never been a fan of him, but I liked him in the first seasons. Now he is portrayed as totally dumb. I'm fine that he is honourable and good-hearted, but I can't believe they are writing him in such a way and that he has to lead everyone when the NK arrives...

Edited August 29, 2017 by Meera of Tarth

[Gomagoti]

I'm just relieved its over, and we got some major plot points confirmed.

[Gargarax]

5/10.

Tought one to rate. It was clearly better than last week. The best thing were clearly the sets - the Dragonpit in particular was gorgeous. And there were moments that gave me what I had missed on GoT for quite a while, like the snow falling on Kings Landing and Jaimie witnessing it. Jon talking to Theon was almost acceptable dialogue again, and almost a good character moment. And the CGI was quite alright again, and more atmospheric than last week. Overall, it was really quite a beautiful episode.

However, this didn't change the fact that plotwise, it didn't make any more sense than the episodes before. It became even more clear that there was no reason for the meeting in KL, since Cersei has no army that is worth such a long delay. The winterfell plot introduced one of the most unearned twists in the series so far. And what's with the dick jokes - it's getting so ridiculuous it makes immersion impossible. Who finds that funny. No really, who? And Theon immune to crotch-kick-pain - who writes shit like this into a major TV show?

If the writing was bad, the direction was worse. I think the dragonpit scene was probably directed by the camera guy ("now Euron get up and insult Tyrion - go") - they did stuff that I wouldn't let a highschool drama production get away with. Euron was fucking terrible - this is not a bad actor, but he was unconvincing like no one else. He wasn't the only one, though. There was no chemistry between Jon and Danaerys - they seemed to have sex out of boredom. Arya was terrible. Littlefinger's plea felt so unmotivated, but then Aidan Gillen hasn't had anything to work with for more than two seasons now.

Conclusion: Visually enjoyable with some good moments, but such an awful script and such ininspired acting and directing that I was still majorly disappointed.

[JagLover]

4 hours ago, plastic throne said:

I could say some stuff for 10/10 posters and their reasoning behind it but choose not to.

Some can ignore all the bad (and there's A LOT of it) and get hyped because some line of text or something (like dragons)... But many can't because it breaks their immersion. Many people ask question regarding the show they watch, seek answers and do not take everything and every explanation as the logical one.

But saying that the show is high quality in writing, that is just plain lie, blindness or w/e reason. But mostly just being unable to recognize quality, after all, a quick glance at popular culture is more than enough for me. All surface, no depth.

For me the major problem with the show is the plot arcs and structure.

Aside from a couple of actors the acting ranges from good to very good. There are brilliant costumes, set design, action scenes and CGI. Ep 4 was better than most movies let alone TV shows.

The fundamental problem is that once they moved beyond both the books, and what could be reasonable implied from the books, they seem lost.

10 minutes into Ep5 is where the show ended in terms of developing a logical and coherant plot. For it was then that the plan to "catch a wight" to "convince" your defeated enemy was unveiled. 

Individual episodes can still be decent, the problem is the plot.

D&D almost certainly wont be able to bring this to a satisfying conclusion as it seems they don't care anymore, or just don't have the writing ability. 

Which is a great tragedy as this is the only ending to the story we are ever likely to see. 

Edited August 29, 2017 by JagLover

[GeorgeIAF]

Incredible episode, i enjoyed it a lot and gave it a 9, the montage of Rhaegar and Jon was perfect.

[BigFatCoward]

Who are these insane people who constantly give a TV show 1,2,3,4 etc, and keep watching?  i give up on anything that isn't an 8, if you don't like it stop watching, and then nobody has to listen to angsty f'ing moans. 

[The Knight of Flours]

Bit late this week but...

9/10

Haven't been any 10/10s this season for a change - but a few like this one at 9/10 and pretty good.

 

Guess I will see all the haters back here in a year's time lol

[RSasoiaf]

14 hours ago, Snormund said:

I'm getting really sick of people saying it doesn't matter if an aunt fucks her nephew. 

 

If they have kids there is a strong chance they will be defective. 

People should refrain from saying things for which they do not have proper knowledge.

I am in no way advocating Incest. But genetics do not work in the way you say.

There is indeed a chance of issues but its by no means a strong one at start. It takes generations for the DNA to really get messed up. Because if you dont have generations of Incest behind, your DNA material is still pretty widespread. You likely dont know but DNA material goes back several generations so you can absolutely generate someone who is a copy of your great great uncle.

 

I am no specialist in genetics but I do am a specialist in history.

As example, all greatest Egiptian rullers were born from brother and sister. The first successful female ruller, Hatshepsut was one of such examples. There are many others.

Europe is also full of examples. You maybe will just focus on the Habsburg family which did generate a congenit blood issue. But focusing on the Habsburgs would be to forget there were plenty other families. And by the way, it took the Habsburgs a couple generations to get this trait concentrated that almost everyone had it. 

 

When all is said and done, if you did not have modern medicine, it would be more dangerous to have a kid from a stranger after lets say 35 years old, vs having a kid from your cousin at 20 years old. The first thing would have a far greater chance of killing you and the baby if you did not apply modern medicine.