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How would you rate episode 707?  

423 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best?

    • 1
      27
    • 2
      26
    • 3
      25
    • 4
      26
    • 5
      31
    • 6
      24
    • 7
      34
    • 8
      58
    • 9
      67
    • 10
      105


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53 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

CGI? I'm not talking about CGI...GOT is universally praised for its technical perfection, in fact is one of the few things even the most hardcore haters admit. Sound design, camera work, photography...GOT excels in every one of these categories.

I also disagree with your statement about the CGI, by the way. I know many movies that have worse CGI than GOT, the Hobbit trilogy being an example of it. Drogon is 184728392 times better done than Smaug.

An example? You have plenty. Watch Hardhome again, or the Battle of the Bastards (there's one tracking shot in there that's just pure gold) to watch outstanding camera work, CGI, photography, etc. Montage? Watch the first 15 minutes of Winds of Winter. Sound design? Dead Viserion screaming last episode.

And I could go on and on about it. I'm just talking about recent episodes and giving a few examples, there are actually hundreds of it.. Even back in Season 1 and 2 GOT was extraordinary in those aspects, Blackwater was unique and even more considering it was released in 2012.

I wasn't joking about GOT being taught in film schools. It's already being done, at least here in Spain where I'm from, and I can assure you that.

Interesting, thanks! I agree that the dragons are great, I also like them better than Smaug. Sound and Set Design are great as well, no question. I'm not sure about the camera work and Montage, but I'll have a look at the scenes you suggested. I can't remember any tracking shots that came near the chase scene in S3 of "Black Sails" or the raid in S1 of "True Detective", but maybe I remember badly.

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2 minutes ago, Gargarax said:

Interesting, thanks! I agree that the dragons are great, I also like them better than Smaug. Sound and Set Design are great as well, no question. I'm not sure about the camera work and Montage, but I'll have a look at the scenes you suggested. I can't remember any tracking shots that came near the chase scene in S3 of "Black Sails" or the raid in S1 of "True Detective", but maybe I remember badly.

Watch them, I assure you you will see what I mean. The tracking shot of True Detective is my favorite ever by the way, but well, Season 1 of True Detective might be my favorite piece of cinema.

This is the tracking shot I was talking about, from 3:02 to 4:02 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsFeIVJfKsA

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3 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

Nitpicking isn't insightful.  The flaws in the show are obvious and most people (show snobs!) that can be arsed to try and defend the show will freely admit that.

But most people don't try and defend the show because they can't be bothered to argue over something they're actually enjoying (those with an axe to grind will always have more to say and more motivation to say it) and on this forum at least they get beaten down but the very vocal minority.  And they are a minority as clearly demonstrated by the actual ratings in the ratings thread as opposed to the posts (the vast majority of which are negative about the show).

I have several gripes about the show.  But I also understand that the show will never be as rich in content as the books and the visual medium will always struggle with subtlety over a book (e.g. you really have to make things obvious to the viewer).

But my ultimate point remains the same.  AGOT is massively popular and well received so it's not a failure.  And my secondary point is that the show is far from perfect but nowhere near as bad as the majority of regular posters on this forum try to make out.

 

 

This was very well written. 

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27 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

As I point out elsewhere, non-book readers I have spoken to (who love the show) point to seasons 1 to 4 as being too slow and most of them prefer the later seasons.  I personally don't agree with them but the sheer arrogance so many book fans have at dismissing the opinions of the Unsullied (which in itself is such an arrogant pathetic thing to call someone) is pathetic.

I still don't know why you think their opinions are being dismissed. 1. Quality in storytelling has nothing to do with opinion - see all analogies above. 2. Please become aware of your double standards; dismissing the opinion of book fans is just as stupid as dismissing those of Unsullied - you are doing yourself what you criticise in others, which is just as pathetic.

Your demographics argument is a good point, though - this is the only thing that gives the show a hint of "cultural phenomenon".

As for your predictions: I would bet a lot of money things are not gonna happen in even remotely a similar way in the books as they happen in the show show. Say about the later books of the series what you will, but Martin makes very few mistakes with plot development, plot points and characters arc, while the shows fails epically most of the time. Even if LF dies in WF, being sentenced to death by Sansa, the circumstances will be entirely different and the similarity superficial at best. I will eat my hat if Arya passes the sentence - nothing in Martin's universe would make this even remotely likely. D&D have outright admitted that they made that nonsensical shit up to create a bit of tension in WF. I would be surprise if even 1 in 5 plot points would be from Martin's outline.

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11 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Watch them, I assure you you will see what I mean. The tracking shot of True Detective is my favorite ever by the way, but well, Season 1 of True Detective might be my favorite piece of cinema.

This is the tracking shot I was talking about, from 3:02 to 4:02 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsFeIVJfKsA

Okay, I agree, this is well done, and impressive production value for a TV series. Still, as examples for tracking shots, I would go with True Detective or the opening of "The Revenant". And I agree, True Detective S1 is a fabulous example for camera work in general - clearly better than GoT in my opinion.

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3 minutes ago, Gargarax said:

Okay, I agree, this is well done, and impressive production value for a TV series. Still, as examples for tracking shots, I would go with True Detective or the opening of "The Revenant". And I agree, True Detective S1 is a fabulous example for camera work in general - clearly better than GoT in my opinion.

Agreed. Fukunaga did one hell of a job with TD. But what Sapochnik did for Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards or Winds of Winter cannnot be set aside: he's the best directo GOT's ever had, and I wish he had directed at least one episode this Season.

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As a standalone I would rate this episode 9/10 (thought it just dragged on a bit too long. Could have been shortened by 15 minutes or so without losing anything). However, I simply cannot just ignore the nonsense setup in the previous episodes which makes me want to rate this episode 5/10. But I decided to split the difference and go with 7/10. Set design - great; costuming - very good; music - excellent; CGI - top notch; acting - mostly good, but a turd of a script continues to drag the show down. And this is the most frustrating thing about GoT for me: the show could have been so much more if only the same amount of care, effort and attention to detail that goes into set and costume design, music choices and CGI was put into the writing.

4/10 for the season. Weakest season of GoT saved only by a big budget.

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7 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

As a standalone I would rate this episode 9/10 (thought it just dragged on a bit too long. Could have been shortened by 15 minutes or so without losing anything). However, I simply cannot just ignore the nonsense setup in the previous episodes which makes me want to rate this episode 5/10. But I decided to split the difference and go with 7/10. Set design - great; costuming - very good; music - excellent; CGI - top notch; acting - mostly good, but a turd of a script continues to drag the show down. And this is the most frustrating thing about GoT for me: the show could have been so much more if only the same amount of care, effort and attention to detail that goes into set and costume design, music choices and CGI was put into the writing.

4/10 for the season. Weakest season of GoT saved only by a big budget.

I agree! It's not like the show is incapable of being good. It still has its moments for sure and is almost always entertaining. My rankings are based on comparison to the plots of the  book and earlier seasons. They have gotten lazy and fanservice-y. 

 

I ranked this episode a 1 mainly because of the incest and the way we're expected to cheer for it tbqh. I hate it so much 

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21 minutes ago, Gargarax said:

I still don't know why you think their opinions are being dismissed. 1. Quality in storytelling has nothing to do with opinion - see all analogies above. 2. Please become aware of your double standards; dismissing the opinion of book fans is just as stupid as dismissing those of Unsullied - you are doing yourself what you criticise in others, which is just as pathetic.

While I absolutely agree that it is wrong to dismiss the opinions of book readers, one has to admit that these forums are filled with negativity towards the show. Valid criticisms are one things, but a constant onslaught of nitpicking is another. One would be hard pressed to find a thread devoid of discussion about how the show is the worst thing in the world. While the show is by no means perfect, it's really good. The majority of show watchers haven't read the books, so I think it's fine that the show doesn't delve into details about the books. The books are the books and the show is the show.

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12 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

While I absolutely agree that it is wrong to dismiss the opinions of book readers, one has to admit that these forums are filled with negativity towards the show. Valid criticisms are one things, but a constant onslaught of nitpicking is another. One would be hard pressed to find a thread devoid of discussion about how the show is the worst thing in the world. While the show is by no means perfect, it's really good. The majority of show watchers haven't read the books, so I think it's fine that the show doesn't delve into details about the books. The books are the books and the show is the show.

Sorry but I think that people are not taking in consideration something. We ALL like the show. It is obvious to me that people will have a higher trend to point the finger to what was bad than to the good (as we assume that it must be good).

To watch a episode that I like does not surprise me.. because it is what I expect. Sometimes I will be surprised by how much better the show was against my expectations (i.e. spoils of war episode, last season's the door, BoB or the season finale). But to see something worst, (and sometimes much worse than what we expected) then people are vocal about it... 

So the perception is that most people view the show in a negative way, when I don't think it is the case.

Edited by King Louis II (KLII)

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3 minutes ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

Sorry but I think that people are not taking in consideration something. We ALL like the show. It is obvious to me that people will have a higher trend to point the finger to what was bad than to the good (as we assume that it must be good).

To watch a episode that I like does not surprise me.. because it is what I expect. Sometimes I will be surprised by how much better the show was against my expectations (i.e. spoils of war episode, last season's the door, BoB or the season finale). But to see something worst, (and sometimes much worse than what we expected) then people are vocal about it... 

So the perception is that most people view the show in a negative way, when I don't think it is the case.

Maybe what you say is true, but that's not the feeling I get. Yes, I can see how easily one can be frustrated by something that could've been done better, but one has to admit that repeating those frustrations over and over again can make the atmosphere rather negative, which is how I see the forums.

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1 hour ago, Gargarax said:

I still don't know why you think their opinions are being dismissed. 1. Quality in storytelling has nothing to do with opinion - see all analogies above. 2. Please become aware of your double standards; dismissing the opinion of book fans is just as stupid as dismissing those of Unsullied - you are doing yourself what you criticise in others, which is just as pathetic.

Your demographics argument is a good point, though - this is the only thing that gives the show a hint of "cultural phenomenon".

As for your predictions: I would bet a lot of money things are not gonna happen in even remotely a similar way in the books as they happen in the show show. Say about the later books of the series what you will, but Martin makes very few mistakes with plot development, plot points and characters arc, while the shows fails epically most of the time. Even if LF dies in WF, being sentenced to death by Sansa, the circumstances will be entirely different and the similarity superficial at best. I will eat my hat if Arya passes the sentence - nothing in Martin's universe would make this even remotely likely. D&D have outright admitted that they made that nonsensical shit up to create a bit of tension in WF. I would be surprise if even 1 in 5 plot points would be from Martin's outline.

Sadly will never find out what was going to be in the books.

As for GRRM makes very mistakes with plot development?  The reason the story has got away from him is because of some major flaws in the plot developments.  In fact the reason why we'll never see the complete series in book form is because of his poor plot planning and character arcs.

Martin also has years to write, scrap, re-write, scrap, tell everyone that he is only working on TWOW and nothing else, edit wildcards, open a cinema, write some more TWOW, scrap, re-write, scrap, do a talkshow, decide to write and release yet another world building book most people don't give a toss about, do a bit more wild card editing, write some more TWOW, scrap etc. etc.  The show HAS to be done yearly.  The time constraint is much more aggressive.  If only the show runners had had the complete source material to work from......

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2 hours ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

LOST had a bigger average audience in the first season than GoT in the current season. And the internet was not what is today them...

Was that global viewing figures and was Lost on cable only? (I am from the UK so wouldn't know).

Lost was huge though.  I never actually watched it but it seemed EVERYONE was talking about it.  The funny thing is I read an article about it in the Radio Terms and thought instantly they were clearly in some kind of purgatory.  I heard that wasn't the case though and the show also lost it's way (no pun intended).

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14 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Was that global viewing figures and was Lost on cable only? (I am from the UK so wouldn't know).

Lost was huge though.  I never actually watched it but it seemed EVERYONE was talking about it.  The funny thing is I read an article about it in the Radio Terms and thought instantly they were clearly in some kind of purgatory.  I heard that wasn't the case though and the show also lost it's way (no pun intended).

Yep.. but look what happened with the number of viewers when the storytelling dropped and the show's logic went downhill (after season 3 when the flashfoewards began:

In millions:

S1=15.69; S2=15.50; S3=17.84; S4=13.40; S5=10.94; S6=10.08

Still big numbers at the end, but to decrease from 17 million to 10 when it should have increased is a proof of how bad storytelling can affect an audience...

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_(TV_series)

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Apoplexy said:

Maybe what you say is true, but that's not the feeling I get. Yes, I can see how easily one can be frustrated by something that could've been done better, but one has to admit that repeating those frustrations over and over again can make the atmosphere rather negative, which is how I see the forums.

You have a point there...

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Really enjoyed it. LF's end and Jaime FINALLY waking up were two of the things I wanted the most the entire season. To me it was just irritating what they were doing to Jaime, my favorite character from the books. Looks like they're finally getting him to the place he's already at in the books soooo I'm happy :)

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3 hours ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

Yep.. but look what happened with the number of viewers when the storytelling dropped and the show's logic went downhill (after season 3 when the flashfoewards began:

In millions:

S1=15.69; S2=15.50; S3=17.84; S4=13.40; S5=10.94; S6=10.08

Still big numbers at the end, but to decrease from 17 million to 10 when it should have increased is a proof of how bad storytelling can affect an audience...

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_(TV_series)

 

 

 

Of course storytelling can affect an audience, it should actually. That is exactly what's special about GOT: even when the quality of the storytelling has dropped with each season (something I admit, and I'm a huge fan of the Show), the audience has grown larger with each year. And not only larger. This Season's finale had almost twice the audience Season 6 finale had, and GOT was already the biggest Show on TV by Season 5.

GOT is unique: it's a cultural phenomenon like no other. Its demographics also are crazy: everyone, no matter the age, the social class, race, sex, etc watches it.

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Last week the rate thread had better dialogue than the episode, and I understood the positions. Same compared this show with a huge budget and backstory and fantastic things to ordinary cheap shows, and other noticed the tremendous bad writing.

This week I do not understand why the scoring is higher. A 4 to be generous.

The fantastic/FX this episode was nothing compared to the previous one and even less compared to the dragons munching on lannisters. The NK riding that dragon looked like a scooby doo cartoon, embarrassing. Obviously their money and time was mostly spent on the main dragon. The skeleton was not scary at all, undead queensguard could eat it for lunch.

How can anybody give that mess of a plot a perfect 10?! Looking at the comments here, I guess it's the dumb and dumber logic, just give people the payouts they want, logic be damned! "I wanted to see this so badly..." Fan service in the end turns a show into one of those spoof movies. That is why they want to end this quickly.

The dialogue was not witty or clever at all, it was terrible. Previous episode at least it was entertaining at times. Now it has become monty python. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ser Lady Stark Martell said:

Really enjoyed it. LF's end and Jaime FINALLY waking up were two of the things I wanted the most the entire season. To me it was just irritating what they were doing to Jaime, my favorite character from the books. Looks like they're finally getting him to the place he's already at in the books soooo I'm happy :)

finallly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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