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2 hours ago, Yukle said:

I also think that Aiden Gillen and Conleth Hill are absolutely outstanding as Petyr and Varys. All of those extra scenes with them chatting added for the show that weren't in the book were magnificent.

Even now, the line, "Chaos isn't a pit... it's a ladder..." gives me chills.

Gillen's performance as Littlefinger breaking down when he realises all of his schemes have led to his ruin, and he is revealed as the coward who always hid behind the actions of others (which he of course manipulates) was outstanding.

The scene itself... well, not so good, but I was completely taken in by how well he acted it. His acting was the scene's saving grace.

Hehe, thanks. :P 

Yeah, I love that original "Chaos is a ladder" conversation between Varys and LF (from the episode "The Climb"), especially when LF is talking and they show a bunch of the characters and what they are doing, and then it ends with Jon and Ygritte at the top of the Wall.

I thought that was fantastic, and this week's scene with Bran's voiceover while we saw other characters was pretty cool, too.

You didn't like the rest of the LF death scene, though, huh?  Any particular reason, or just a general dislike for what happened? 

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17 minutes ago, Cron said:

You didn't like the rest of the LF death scene, though, huh?  Any particular reason, or just a general dislike for what happened? 

There didn't seem to be any particular reason that the Starks out-thought him. He was on top and had them at loggerheads one episode, and the next he had lost.

It felt like they wanted to surprise the audience but couldn't think of how to do it, so just never filled in the blanks and thought that was good enough.

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54 minutes ago, Yukle said:

There didn't seem to be any particular reason that the Starks out-thought him. He was on top and had them at loggerheads one episode, and the next he had lost.

It felt like they wanted to surprise the audience but couldn't think of how to do it, so just never filled in the blanks and thought that was good enough.

Very interesting points.

Yeah, I guess it would be kind of like the difference between a good magician who can pull off a trick while your eyes are open. the lights are on, and you are watching him, versus a magician who says to his audience "Now, I'm going to turn off the light in this room so it's completely dark, then make this coin in my hand disappear, and when I turn the light back on you will be amazed to see that the coin is gone!!!"

HAR!!

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1 hour ago, Yukle said:

There didn't seem to be any particular reason that the Starks out-thought him. He was on top and had them at loggerheads one episode, and the next he had lost.

It felt like they wanted to surprise the audience but couldn't think of how to do it, so just never filled in the blanks and thought that was good enough.

We can't be sure they weren't on to him sooner - that's been a much debated topic.  Bran obviously filled in the blanks. Why he didn't do it sooner (besides providing suspense) is hard to say logically.  Maybe was hoping to wait until Jon was there so Sansa could be spared having to deal with it.  Or being the 3ER he somehow knew the best time to reveal his information. 

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On 8/31/2017 at 1:23 AM, Cron said:

Yeah, that's great stuff.

The scenes where Arya was travelling with Sandor are some of my absolute favorites in books and show.

If GRRM had written 3 books with nothing else besides "The Adventures of Arya and Sandor", I would have gladly read it all.

Now that would be a good TV spinoff too! Too bad they're not doing the future events of the characters' lives. I can see Arya leaving Winterfell again and Sandor would make an excellent travel buddy. They can sail around Westeros killing baddies and eating all the chicken he can eat. 

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16 hours ago, Cron said:

Hmmmm...VERY interesting.

So, you think Tyrion might betray Dany, cuz he's upset that she's with Jon and not Tyrion?

Oh, what a tangled web we weave!!!  Could make for good storytelling!!! (Quite a few characters have flipped from good to bad and bad to good, why not Tyrion?!!?!)

But I don't think that's Jaime's baby in Cersei.  I think it's Euron's.  Time will tell...

(P.S.  By the way, I like your name.  Is it something you can tell me where you got it from?)

My name is just something I came up with pretty quickly. There's no good story behind it.

I don't think the baby is Jaime's, if there's one.

Maybe I'm overthinking, but there has to be a reason why they wanted to show Tyrion behind the door. It could be possible that Tyrion has matured and is not like in the early show. IMO they could lead this story to any direction now regarding Tyrion. Has anyone betrayed Dany yet? 

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He called her bluff, that she wasn't actually gonna go trough with it and kill him then and there.

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2 hours ago, Sand11751 said:

Now that would be a good TV spinoff too! Too bad they're not doing the future events of the characters' lives. I can see Arya leaving Winterfell again and Sandor would make an excellent travel buddy. They can sail around Westeros killing baddies and eating all the chicken he can eat. 

Yes, my personal favorite spin-off would have focused on Arya, Lyanna Mormont, Gendry, Pod Payne, and a few others (also younger characters), bringing in the "old guard" (Dany, Jon, Tyrion) from time to time for cameo appearances.  (This will also save HBO a lot of money on actors.  My strong understanding is that the 5 most expensive actors are all older:  Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Jaime, and Cersei, all of whom get paid the same money per episode, last I heard) 

And I know we've been told the first spin-off will NOT be a direct sequel, but in my opinion we WILL see that eventually.  There's just too much money to be made for them to never pursue it, even if it's on the back burner for 5 or 10 years.

I predict there will be AT LEAST two spin-offs, maybe more, and one of them WILL be a sequel to the current series (definitely including Arya, at a bare minimum).

Look at the Star Wars franchise.  There were 32 years between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens, but we DID finally get a sequel for Luke, Leia and Han Solo.

(By the way, I also confidently predict Harry Potter will eventually get a direct sequel, too.  There's just too much money to be made for it to never happen.  Slap something together, "get the band back together," and BOOM, here comes another several billion dollars, easy as pie)

And I'm now also predicting A Dream of Spring WILL eventually be published, even if takes 10 years and GRRM is just a co-author with another co-author.  Too much money to be made for it to not happen.  Eventually, the demand will be so great that it WILL happen, even if it amounts to the publisher telling GRRM something like "Look, you give us the rough draft of an outline in the next 60 to 90 days, just broad strokes, and we'll give you $20 million and a co-author will do 95% of the work, with you retaining final say and creative control."  And if that happens, in my strong opinion, that book WILL be rolling off of printing presses (or whatever) within 12 months, maybe a lot sooner.

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1 hour ago, Deminelle said:

My name is just something I came up with pretty quickly. There's no good story behind it.

Well, I like it.  It sounds like "powerful female" to me. The first part, "Demi" makes me think of a demigod or demigoddess (and thus, "powerful"), and the ending ("elle") is, of course, quite feminine, so all together it makes me think "powerful female.",

Are you sure that's not what you were thinking when you coined it, maybe even subconsciously?

1 hour ago, Deminelle said:

I don't think the baby is Jaime's, if there's one.

Agreed. There's GOT to be a major plot twist with that baby, otherwise the story is just too linear and simple.   And the ultimate twist would be...Jaime is not the father.   Euron is the father, which will cause Jaime to blow his stack.

(This has already been set up with Euron's antagonistic needling of Jaime, and in fact that needling even involved Euron talking about having sex with Cersei.  So it's a double whammy to Jaime.  Not only is he betrayed by Cersei, but she did it with EURON.  By the way, I would LOVE to see Bran reveal this to Jaime when they finally meet in person.  Bran:  "Hey, uh, you know you're not the father of Cersei's baby, right?  Just sayin', dude.  Bro to bro, ya know?"  That would be VERY fitting, given the history between Bran, Jaime and Cersei going all the way back to Episode 101, when Bran caught Jaime and Cersei having sex, and Jaime pushed Bran from the window.  If Bran tells Jaime that Jaime is not the father of Cersei's baby, that would connect to 101 and bring it all full circle.)

1 hour ago, Deminelle said:

Maybe I'm overthinking, but there has to be a reason why they wanted to show Tyrion behind the door. It could be possible that Tyrion has matured and is not like in the early show. IMO they could lead this story to any direction now regarding Tyrion. Has anyone betrayed Dany yet? 

Naw, I don't think you're overthinking it.  I think there IS some significance to Tyrion lurking around there.  I'm hoping Tyrion is just jealous, though, cuz if Tyrion IS planning to betray Jon and Dany, I FULLY expect Bran to expose that fact within 5 minutes of Jon arriving in Winterfell.  And then Tyrion would probably be executed within 5 minutes after that, so that would be sad.

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I think it's simply him just being concerned because now isn't the best time for hanky panky when you are trying to sell an alliance to the subjects of the North.  If word gets out Jon and Dany are sitting in a tree... k.i.s.s.i.n.g. Then people will think Jon bent the knee because she gave him a taste of dragon snatch.  We already saw Littlefinger put that thought in Sansa's head.  

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1 hour ago, Cron said:

Yes, my personal favorite spin-off would have focused on Arya, Lyanna Mormont, Gendry, Pod Payne, and a few others (also younger characters), bringing in the "old guard" (Dany, Jon, Tyrion) from time to time for cameo appearances.  (This will also save HBO a lot of money on actors.  My strong understanding is that the 5 most expensive actors are all older:  Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Jaime, and Cersei, all of whom get paid the same money per episode, last I heard) 

And I know we've been told the first spin-off will NOT be a direct sequel, but in my opinion we WILL see that eventually.  There's just too much money to be made for them to never pursue it, even if it's on the back burner for 5 or 10 years.

I predict there will be AT LEAST two spin-offs, maybe more, and one of them WILL be a sequel to the current series (definitely including Arya, at a bare minimum).

Look at the Star Wars franchise.  There were 32 years between Return of the Jedi and The Force Awakens, but we DID finally get a sequel for Luke, Leia and Han Solo.

(By the way, I also confidently predict Harry Potter will eventually get a direct sequel, too.  There's just too much money to be made for it to never happen.  Slap something together, "get the band back together," and BOOM, here comes another several billion dollars, easy as pie)

And I'm now also predicting A Dream of Spring WILL eventually be published, even if takes 10 years and GRRM is just a co-author with another co-author.  Too much money to be made for it to not happen.  Eventually, the demand will be so great that it WILL happen, even if it amounts to the publisher telling GRRM something like "Look, you give us the rough draft of an outline in the next 60 to 90 days, just broad strokes, and we'll give you $20 million and a co-author will do 95% of the work, with you retaining final say and creative control."  And if that happens, in my strong opinion, that book WILL be rolling off of printing presses (or whatever) within 12 months, maybe a lot sooner.

May all your predictions be true. Even for the flaws, there are still many things I've enjoyed about this adaptation and I'd like to see more of Martin's world on the screen. 

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2 hours ago, Cron said:

Well, I like it.  It sounds like "powerful female" to me. The first part, "Demi" makes me think of a demigod or demigoddess (and thus, "powerful"), and the ending ("elle") is, of course, quite feminine, so all together it makes me think "powerful female.",

Are you sure that's not what you were thinking when you coined it, maybe even subconsciously?

Agreed. There's GOT to be a major plot twist with that baby, otherwise the story is just too linear and simple.   And the ultimate twist would be...Jaime is not the father.   Euron is the father, which will cause Jaime to blow his stack.

(This has already been set up with Euron's antagonistic needling of Jaime, and in fact that needling even involved Euron talking about having sex with Cersei.  So it's a double whammy to Jaime.  Not only is he betrayed by Cersei, but she did it with EURON.  By the way, I would LOVE to see Bran reveal this to Jaime when they finally meet in person.  Bran:  "Hey, uh, you know you're not the father of Cersei's baby, right?  Just sayin', dude.  Bro to bro, ya know?"  That would be VERY fitting, given the history between Bran, Jaime and Cersei going all the way back to Episode 101, when Bran caught Jaime and Cersei having sex, and Jaime pushed Bran from the window.  If Bran tells Jaime that Jaime is not the father of Cersei's baby, that would connect to 101 and bring it all full circle.)

Naw, I don't think you're overthinking it.  I think there IS some significance to Tyrion lurking around there.  I'm hoping Tyrion is just jealous, though, cuz if Tyrion IS planning to betray Jon and Dany, I FULLY expect Bran to expose that fact within 5 minutes of Jon arriving in Winterfell.  And then Tyrion would probably be executed within 5 minutes after that, so that would be sad.

Yes, I was looking for a feminine name, hence "elle" in the end fits well. Demi is a familiar female name. It was all subconscious in that sense. I never knew about this "demigoddess" thing but it sounds really cool!

Wikipedia tells me: Demi is also a prefix meaning "half", loaned from French; for example, demi frère which means "half brother" or demi soeur which means "half sister". Pretty interesting detail as well. Thanks for making me search. ;)

Re Euron and Cersei: they gave us enough clues to gather it's Euron. Cersei told Jaime not to betray her again. She was done with Jaime a long time ago. Why did she even bother to pretend afterwards? She was quick to let him go after the meeting anyway. What if she only needed to get in touch with Tyrion after all?

Can Bran see anything like that, if Tyrion has only plans and he hasn't done anything yet? What triggers Bran to see certain events? He could see if Cersei and Tyrion agreed on something that could harm Jon/Dany but how would he know to view that certain event?

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14 hours ago, Yukle said:

He was on top and had them at loggerheads one episode, and the next he had lost.

Deus ex Bran

Really unfair to him to have been outdone by omniscient magic rather than wit. 

So in his case chaos was a dagger 

:D

 

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5 hours ago, Sand11751 said:

May all your predictions be true. Even for the flaws, there are still many things I've enjoyed about this adaptation and I'd like to see more of Martin's world on the screen. 

Agreed.   In my view, GoT is the best adaption of a major work of fiction I've ever seen.

When I first heard it was going to be a t.v. show rather than a major motion picture, I was a little disappointed.

But now, looking back, I'm convinced I was wrong to be disappointed.   The available screen time is SO much greater the way HBO has done it, and altogether it's just fantastic, especially the parts that follow the books very closely. (But even now, after they've gone beyond the books, I'm still having a lot of fun!)

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4 minutes ago, Cron said:

Agreed.   In my view, GoT is the best adaption of a major work of fiction I've ever seen

Yes, I have to remind myself to not become too harsh with the show as adapting 5000 plus pages of sacred to the fans material, that is unfinished, to tv must be a challenge. But what irks me is the little things that are easy to do better but they did not. 

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5 hours ago, Deminelle said:

Yes, I was looking for a feminine name, hence "elle" in the end fits well. Demi is a familiar female name. It was all subconscious in that sense. I never knew about this "demigoddess" thing but it sounds really cool!

Oh, you never heard of gods and goddesses, demigods and demigoddesses??  Oh yeah.  In lots of mythology, a "demigod" or a "demigoddess" and one parent who is a god and the other parent is human.  This is especially common in Greek mythology.   Hercules, for example, is a demigod.  So is Perseus.   They have one parent who is a god and one who is hijman, and they themselves are powerful, too.

So, like I said, to me, "Deminelle" means powerful female. 
 

5 hours ago, Deminelle said:

Wikipedia tells me: Demi is also a prefix meaning "half", loaned from French; for example, demi frère which means "half brother" or demi soeur which means "half sister". Pretty interesting detail as well. Thanks for making me search. ;)

Yes, exactly.  Half human and half god.  "Demi"   Still, in mythology, the demigods and demigodesses are VERY powerful, believe me.

5 hours ago, Deminelle said:

Re Euron and Cersei: they gave us enough clues to gather it's Euron. Cersei told Jaime not to betray her again. She was done with Jaime a long time ago. Why did she even bother to pretend afterwards? She was quick to let him go after the meeting anyway. What if she only needed to get in touch with Tyrion after all?

AGREED!  In fact, I made a whole thread about this, but I think most people disagreed with me that Euron is the true father.

Maybe if you come across that thread sometime, you can back me up!  HARR!!!

5 hours ago, Deminelle said:

Can Bran see anything like that, if Tyrion has only plans and he hasn't done anything yet? What triggers Bran to see certain events? He could see if Cersei and Tyrion agreed on something that could harm Jon/Dany but how would he know to view that certain event?

My understanding is that Bran can see the past and future AT WILL.  Meaning, any time he wants, he can see anything he wants, in the past or future.

The real question, to me is "How much control does Bran have about what he sees in the future??"  We know he CAN see at least some future, b/c he saw Drogon over King's Landing long before it happened.  But can he control that/??   And does GoT's have a predetermined future, which can't be changed?  If not, that means there are multiple (if not nearly infinite) possible futures. Can Bran see them all???

 

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I loved this from Sansa to Arya... 'Don't get used to it. You're still very strange and annoying'.

Some people here moan about the writing, but every episode seems to have about a dozen lines that I smile, laugh or cheer at (and sometimes shed a tear). No other TV drama seems to do that so consistently, at least for me.

 

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1 hour ago, #teamNightking said:

Yes, I have to remind myself to not become too harsh with the show as adapting 5000 plus pages of sacred to the fans material, that is unfinished, to tv must be a challenge. But what irks me is the little things that are easy to do better but they did not. 

Yes.  A great recent example was 705, less than 2 weeks ago.

It would have been SO easy to make Dany's arrival in time to rescue the Wight Hunters perfectly plausible.

But no.  Instead, we are left having to assume Gendry can run on foot at about 100 miles per hour, a raven can fly at around 200 or 300 miles per hour, and dragons can fly at around 600 miles per hour with Dany (a) being blown off, (b) freezing to death, or (c) suffocating.

But hey, props to GoT.  As I often say, the got a LOT more right than wrong.

Indeed, overall my episode ratings for Season 7 were quite high.

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