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Cron

The Seven Blessings of 707

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7 hours ago, ummester said:

Drogon and the Mountain were scarier than the wight - I have no idea why everyone acted afraid of it. Stupid, stupid plot element - that amounted to an underwhelming scene, other than the way Qyburn enjoyed the animated hand.

interesting.  Personally, I'd rather face the wight than Drogon, but I'd rather face Gregor than the wight (assuming I had no Dragonglass, or Valyrian steel, or fire handy against the wight)

But part of what I liked about the wight was how whacked out he was.  That was kind of disturbing in and of itself.

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15 hours ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

I would have loved if they named him Jaehaerys Targaryen. Because Jaehaerys and Daenerys just sound so right! They flow from the tongue like sweet summer wine. :D Man, Rhaegar looked just like Viserys :P which is a new touch since, incest n whatnot. :D

I would have preferred it if "jon" had been in his name somewhere.  I think it would have been cool if we had all been calling him some nickname from his real name all along without even knowing it.

Regarding Rhaegar's appearance, yeah, I was surprised at first, but word is (with quotes from the book that I've seen) that when Dany first saw Rhaegar in a vision in the House of the Undying, she at first mistook him for Viserys.  Meaning they actually DID look a lot alike.  Which means that, apparently, the show DID get it right, which I like.

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20 hours ago, Cron said:

Interesting.  I believe Theon will be fully redeemed by the end of the series, but frankly I have trouble drumming up sympathy for him, even now.

What he did at Winterfell was just horrendous.

Now, that does not mean I think he "deserved" what Ramsay did to him, but I don't feel sorry for Theon about the fact that he's been a coward far more often than not ever since..

That whole scene with Jon alone was foreshadowing for Jon.  Jon said "you're a greyjoy, and you're a Stark" 

Jon is going to have to heed his own words.  

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19 hours ago, Cron said:

I've read some great theories that, in the end, Brienne will also be Captain of the Queen's Guard in King's Landing, filling in Jaime's pages in the White Book.

I like this theory a lot!  I also believe that Jaime will probably kill Cersei, and even more likely be the one who delivers the realm saving blow to defeat the white walkers once and for all (likely dying in the process) but I am not on board with him and Brienne having sex or conceiving a child.

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1 hour ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

That whole scene with Jon alone was foreshadowing for Jon.  Jon said "you're a greyjoy, and you're a Stark" 

Jon is going to have to heed his own words.  

What do you mean Jon will have to heed his own words? To the effect that Jon is a Stark and a Targaryen?

(By the way, I'm not really sure how helpful Jon's words were as a practical matter.  How helpful would those words have been to Theon when he was faced wit a situation where one of the families (Greyjoys) was attacking the other (Starks)?  Not very helpful at all.)

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14 minutes ago, Cron said:

What do you mean Jon will have to heed his own words? To the effect that Jon is a Stark and a Targaryen?

(By the way, I'm not really sure how helpful Jon's words were as a practical matter.  How helpful would those words have been to Theon when he was faced wit a situation where one of the families (Greyjoys) was attacking the other (Starks)?  Not very helpful at all.)

Because Jon is going to have to face a similar situation.  Theon said he felt he had to choose between the family that raised him and being a Greyjoy.  Jon said you are a Greyjoy and a Stark.  Well when Jon finds out he is a Targ and Stark, I think he will not make the same mistake Theon made, Jon will not choose, he will accept and embrace that he is both and will fight and maybe even die to protect the Targaryean line and the Stark line.  Something Theon could not do.  

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1 hour ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

I like this theory a lot!  I also believe that Jaime will probably kill Cersei, and even more likely be the one who delivers the realm saving blow to defeat the white walkers once and for all (likely dying in the process) but I am not on board with him and Brienne having sex or conceiving a child.

Really?  Why not?  There seems to be a pretty strong and mutual attraction between them.

Well, how about Tormund and Brienne, then?  I've also been predicting for quite a while that once Jaime is dead, Brienne will end up with Tormund.  I think it would be pretty neat to see him all bathed and cleaned up, new clothes, haircut, fresh shaven, and Brienne being pleasantly surprised by his appearance.

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22 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

1.The last scene between the Stark Sisters. Was good to finally portray them as having at least some respect towards one another. I'd just preferred it if it had gone more along the lines of:

"I wouldn't have survived the things you did."

"I wouldn't have survived the things you did either."

That's what I was expecting Sansa to say, but really telling Arya "you're the strongest person I know" was I think the greatest complement she could have given her, because I think loyalty and strength are the 2 things Arya values above else.

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12 hours ago, Cron said:

Repeatedly, huh?  And I failed to realize that?  Wow, I'm embarrassed.

I must have been momentarily distracted, I suppose.

I'd say so.  When you watch it again, watch the grin on Theon's face when he realizes he has gained an advantage.  Priceless.

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15 hours ago, ummester said:

Drogon and the Mountain were scarier than the wight - I have no idea why everyone acted afraid of it. Stupid, stupid plot element - that amounted to an underwhelming scene, other than the way Qyburn enjoyed the animated hand.

You can't understand why everyone acted so scared because we've seen them so many times, and they're only on screen. I think we would be scared out of our wits if we witnessed something like that close up and in person, and especially for the first time.  I think your comments shows a real lack of imagination.

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8 hours ago, Cron said:

interesting.  Personally, I'd rather face the wight than Drogon, but I'd rather face Gregor than the wight (assuming I had no Dragonglass, or Valyrian steel, or fire handy against the wight)

But part of what I liked about the wight was how whacked out he was.  That was kind of disturbing in and of itself.

Not to mention how close he came to Cersei and she was truly scared for once.  Very satisfying.

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1 hour ago, Cron said:

Really?  Why not?  There seems to be a pretty strong and mutual attraction between them.

Well, how about Tormund and Brienne, then?  I've also been predicting for quite a while that once Jaime is dead, Brienne will end up with Tormund.  I think it would be pretty neat to see him all bathed and cleaned up, new clothes, haircut, fresh shaven, and Brienne being pleasantly surprised by his appearance.

Hmmm, it's hard to imagine Tormund allowing a razor within 10 feet of him!  His wild look is part of his appeal.  I sure hope he survived the destruction of the wall.  I think he did because it was crumbling away from him.

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23 hours ago, falcotron said:

I like where Jon's lecture to him is leading. My ideal story for Theon would be that he kills Euron, places Yara on the throne, doesn't die a heroic death in doing it, and then has to figure out what to do with the rest of his life. His redemption doesn't make up for everything he did, any more than his torture did. The Starks may still never forgive him, and he has no right to demand that they do. He has to come to terms with all of that, and he has no glorious purpose left to distract him. That would be a great ending to his arc.

This is basically what I would like to see happen with Theon's arc, except that I would like to see him be Yara's advisor, based on the idea that in the process of his redemption he finally learns how to determine the right thing to do, like he told Jon he always wanted to do .  I think that conversation might have been about more than just Jon helping him to resolve his identity crisis (and foreshadowing Jon's forthcoming dilemna).

I have been conflicted about Theon for a long time.  He was put in a difficult position as a child and it's easy to see why he was at war with himself, so I have some sympathy for him.  But he went too far in trying to prove himself to his father with what he did at Winterfell.  It seems he could have found another way to prove himself.  And what Ramsey did to him was far more than he deserved.

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1 hour ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Because Jon is going to have to face a similar situation.  Theon said he felt he had to choose between the family that raised him and being a Greyjoy.  Jon said you are a Greyjoy and a Stark.  Well when Jon finds out he is a Targ and Stark, I think he will not make the same mistake Theon made, Jon will not choose, he will accept and embrace that he is both and will fight and maybe even die to protect the Targaryean line and the Stark line.  Something Theon could not do.  

Jon's decision will be a easier.  He only has to accept that his true parentage, whereas Theon was only a ward of the Starks.

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14 hours ago, Cron said:

I could be wrong, but I interpreted that shot of Jaime pulling a glove onto his golden hand as just an excuse to have a close up that would show us the snow in (or near) King's Landing.

Me too.

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At the same time, though, of course, it makes the fact that Tyrion DOES even superficially trust her all the more implausible.  But hey, who knows, maybe Tyrion's got some plan to deal with her in the end.  And I'm suspicious that very significant things were said between Tyrion and Cersei after we cut away from that scene abruptly.  What are the odds that his meeting ended with "You're pregnant, aren't you?" and then he just walked out of the room, then Cersei emerged and told Dany and company she claimed to have changed her mind?  Naw, I think more was said between Tyrion and Cersei, stuff we weren't shown, and that would change our view of events quite a bit if we knew it.

Oh, there had to have been.  Perhaps it could have been as simple as Tyrion saying "for the sake of your unborn child, we must defeat the army of the dead or it may never be born." and that would seem reasonable enough persuasion for her to pretend to change her mind. 

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In my opinion, LF got WAY too much credit for being a "master game player" (not necessarily from you, cuz I don't know your views on it).  Actually, if we look back, he committed numerous blunders, and had a MAJOR weakness (his "love" for Tully women)

I'm sure you're correct, but the only blunder I can think of at the moment is convincing Sansa to marry Ramsey, because although she may not have had much trust for him before that, she had none after.  I think he had an uncanny ability to redirect his schemes when he did blunder, in fact I am sure he had multiple back up plans.

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And then, of course, in the end, he was utterly obtuse. When Bran made the "Chaos is a ladder" comment to him, you would think warning bells and sirens would have gone off in LF's head along the lines of "UH OH!  This kid knows the truth!!" and he would have fled from Winterfell immediately.  But no..

Obtuse, or just so arrogant and overly confident that he couldn't even consider the possibility?

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Yeah, a great scene. There's been a lot of speculation that Arya and/or Sansa were going to try to kill each other.  Glad to see that didn't happen, and they ended up close.  (Too bad I'm still convinced Sansa is going to die, but hey, who knows, maybe I'm wrong)

I never thought they would.  I totally expected conflict.  I know this is GoT, and one of them might die in the end, but not at each other's hands.

I was so hoping to see Jon and Arya's reunion this season.  :(

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Let’s see, my 7 blessings of 707 (great thread title btw)

1)       The dragon pit scene, especially Dany’s late entrance and “my apologies”, the look of horror on Cersei’s face when the wight lunges for her, and Jon’s speech about better and better lies.

2)      The reunions – notably the Hound and Brienne, Tyrion and Bronn, the Hound and the Mountain

3)      Cersei and Tyrion’s meeting, and the fact that she couldn’t kill him even though she wanted to.  You could see the struggle on her face.  Well done!

4)      LF’s trial and execution and the way it played out, as Cron said.  Fabulous scene!

5)      Jaime leaving Cersei (finally), and now she is alone.

6)      Sansa and Arya’s conversation, and the way they remembered their father.

7)      Finally received confirmation of Jon’s parentage and the fact he is the heir to the iron throne.

The wall coming down was spectacular, but as the story arc goes, it was only a matter of time.

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4 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

You can't understand why everyone acted so scared because we've seen them so many times, and they're only on screen. I think we would be scared out of our wits if we witnessed something like that close up and in person, and especially for the first time.  I think your comments shows a real lack of imagination.

I think the lack of imagination is the other way around :D Jamie knows the dragon can toast a whole bunch of troops in a fly by and then, when Cersie sees the size of the thing, surely she must be thinking, 'fuck me, that is dangerous'.

No-one other than Cersie, Jamie and Qyburn had really seen the mountain close up. His eyes are ugly, not like the wights pretty blue eyes and, as mentioned, he must stink being a huge lump of reanimated flesh stuck in armour. The wight has some kind of frozen preservation so must not stink as much.

Seriously, it's like comparing a fire breathing T-rex to Jason Vorhees to a run of the mill zombie - and you find the zombie scariest? I'd take my chances with the zombie any day - it was small and even in the dark you could see where it is because of it's eyes.

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9 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Because Jon is going to have to face a similar situation.  Theon said he felt he had to choose between the family that raised him and being a Greyjoy.  Jon said you are a Greyjoy and a Stark.  Well when Jon finds out he is a Targ and Stark, I think he will not make the same mistake Theon made, Jon will not choose, he will accept and embrace that he is both and will fight and maybe even die to protect the Targaryean line and the Stark line.  Something Theon could not do.  

Well, that will be fine for Jon, as long as his loyalties to Stark and Targaryen do not come into conflict.  Jon can be willing to fight and die for Starks and willing to fight and die for Targaryens, but what if they somehow go to war with each other?

Then it's not so simple anymore.   And that's the situation Theon faced, when Balon Greyjoy rejected Robb's proposed alliance and chose instead to attack the north.

My guess though is that Jon will never have to face that, at least not in this current series.

(By the way, don't get me wrong, I'm not making excuses for Theon.  I've got big, big problems with what he did.  I'm just saying that I don't think Jon's words to Theon in 707 were very helpful to Theon as a practical matter)

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9 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

That's what I was expecting Sansa to say, but really telling Arya "you're the strongest person I know" was I think the greatest complement she could have given her, because I think loyalty and strength are the 2 things Arya values above else.

It was an interesting comment by Arya.

But frankly, even if Arya really believed it's true herself, I don't believe it.

Arya is VERY mentally tough, and I really don't see how she could have failed to survive what Sansa survived.  Sure, Sansa had to endure some really bad stuff, but Arya had to be a LOT more self-reliant and independent for a lot longer, and had to use skills to survive that Sansa could never have mustered up (Sansa simply didn't have the interest in learning such skills, going way back in their history)

But hey, I'm not saying Arya "lied" when she said she couldn't have survived what Sansa did.  I think she "believed" it in a more general sense, as in an acknowledgement that what happened to Sansa was really, REALLY bad stuff, and could not imagine having to go through it herself.

 

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