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Cron

The Seven Blessings of 707

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10 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

I'd say so.  When you watch it again, watch the grin on Theon's face when he realizes he has gained an advantage.  Priceless.

Yeah, good stuff.

I watched it again last night, and saw the guy kick Theon 3 or 4 times.

Dunno HOW I missed that before.  Must've just looked away from the t.v. at the wrong moments or something.

 

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10 minutes ago, Cron said:

Yeah, good stuff.

I watched it again last night, and saw the guy kick Theon 3 or 4 times.

Dunno HOW I missed that before.  Must've just looked away from the t.v. at the wrong moments or something.

 

I did feel that scene was a little cheeseball, but I'll say the set-up for it was AMAZING.  One of my favorite parts of a great episode was the dialogue between Jon and Theon.  That's something that felt really true and genuine to the characters.  Loved it.  

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11 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

You can't understand why everyone acted so scared because we've seen them so many times, and they're only on screen. I think we would be scared out of our wits if we witnessed something like that close up and in person, and especially for the first time.  I think your comments shows a real lack of imagination.

I think the scariest thing about the wight was how whacked out it was.

Drogon is ultra powerful, that's true, but he is under control (Dany's control)

Gregor is big and strong, but he is under control, too (Cersei's control)

But what wight was just whacked out, totally out of control.

And we have to remember that Dany said she saw at least 100,000 of them. 

Sure, Drogon is big and powerful, but he does not threaten the whole realm all by himself.  Same with Gregor (not even CLOSE to threatening the entire realm, in fact)

But the wights, collectively, DO threaten the entire realm, and in fact they threaten every living thing on Planetos.

I think that's a huge, key, distinction.

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26 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

I did feel that scene was a little cheeseball, but I'll say the set-up for it was AMAZING.  One of my favorite parts of a great episode was the dialogue between Jon and Theon.  That's something that felt really true and genuine to the characters.  Loved it.  

Completely agree, I thought the Theon scene with the Ironborn was cheesy as hell, but I absolutely loved the Theon and Jon 1 on 1 chat.  It perfectly defined Theon and allowed Jon to see how the terrible choices he made were a struggle for him to make.  He didn't ask for forgiveness, and I think Jon's words lit a fire in him, for Jon to tell him he is a Greyjoy and Stark after everything he did to betray Robb and the Starks, and to tell him that Ned Stark was in him as well, I don't think anyone including Yara could have said anything to him more powerful than that.  Plus it's a little foreshadowing for Jon as well.  

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16 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

Not to mention how close he came to Cersei and she was truly scared for once.  Very satisfying.

Yes, that's a great point.

In fact, thinking back on the series, I think that may have been the closest Cersei has ever been to actual physical danger to her person.

During the Battle of Blackwater Bay, she was prepared to commit suicide rather than be mistreated by conquering forces, but they were never even int he same room as her.

When she was on the Walk of Shame she was embarrassed and humiliated, but there was no indication that any of those people actually wanted to kill her.

Maybe the closest she has otherwise come is when she was returning from the docks after seeing Myrcella off, and the mob became extremely hostile.  Even then, though, I do not recall imminent danger to her personally (Sansa nearly got raped, but I don't recall anything like that for Cersei)

Maybe I'm forgetting something, though...

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I believe you are correct.  She is always well protected, not to mention she rarely leaves the Red Keep.  It wasn't just physical danger to herself that scared her, it was also for her baby.  It wasn't until she was talking to Tyrion that I believed she was even pregnant.

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7 hours ago, Cron said:

I think the scariest thing about the wight was how whacked out it was.

Drogon is ultra powerful, that's true, but he is under control (Dany's control)

Gregor is big and strong, but he is under control, too (Cersei's control)

But what wight was just whacked out, totally out of control.

And we have to remember that Dany said she saw at least 100,000 of them. 

Sure, Drogon is big and powerful, but he does not threaten the whole realm all by himself.  Same with Gregor (not even CLOSE to threatening the entire realm, in fact)

But the wights, collectively, DO threaten the entire realm, and in fact they threaten every living thing on Planetos.

I think that's a huge, key, distinction.

Good points, all.

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7 hours ago, Cron said:

Yeah, good stuff.

I watched it again last night, and saw the guy kick Theon 3 or 4 times.

Dunno HOW I missed that before.  Must've just looked away from the t.v. at the wrong moments or something.

 

Tell your mom not to talk to you during the show!!!  hah!

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8 hours ago, Cron said:

It was an interesting comment by Arya.

But frankly, even if Arya really believed it's true herself, I don't believe it.

Arya is VERY mentally tough, and I really don't see how she could have failed to survive what Sansa survived.  Sure, Sansa had to endure some really bad stuff, but Arya had to be a LOT more self-reliant and independent for a lot longer, and had to use skills to survive that Sansa could never have mustered up (Sansa simply didn't have the interest in learning such skills, going way back in their history)

But hey, I'm not saying Arya "lied" when she said she couldn't have survived what Sansa did.  I think she "believed" it in a more general sense, as in an acknowledgement that what happened to Sansa was really, REALLY bad stuff, and could not imagine having to go through it herself.

 

People have different perceptions of what would be the worst thing they could possibly endure. Also, Arya has always been very impulsive.  If she had been put in the situations Sansa had at the same age (13), with the same previous life experiences, she may very well have lost her head and gotten herself killed.  That is how I interpret Arya's statement to Sansa, in addition to acknowledging that Sansa went through a lot of horrific stuff.  I don't think either Arya or Sansa could have survived when the other went through.  Each girl's self preservation instincts were actually what they each needed to get them through their individual trials.

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13 hours ago, ummester said:

I think the lack of imagination is the other way around :D Jamie knows the dragon can toast a whole bunch of troops in a fly by and then, when Cersie sees the size of the thing, surely she must be thinking, 'fuck me, that is dangerous'.

No-one other than Cersie, Jamie and Qyburn had really seen the mountain close up. His eyes are ugly, not like the wights pretty blue eyes and, as mentioned, he must stink being a huge lump of reanimated flesh stuck in armour. The wight has some kind of frozen preservation so must not stink as much.

Seriously, it's like comparing a fire breathing T-rex to Jason Vorhees to a run of the mill zombie - and you find the zombie scariest? I'd take my chances with the zombie any day - it was small and even in the dark you could see where it is because of it's eyes.

Okay, I understand your point of view much better, so my apologies for the saying you lack imagination.  :)  But do you really think you would stand any better chance with the dragon than with an army of zombies?  I don't. 

I think Cron's assessment below is really good.

7 hours ago, Cron said:

I think the scariest thing about the wight was how whacked out it was.

Drogon is ultra powerful, that's true, but he is under control (Dany's control)

Gregor is big and strong, but he is under control, too (Cersei's control)

But what wight was just whacked out, totally out of control.

And we have to remember that Dany said she saw at least 100,000 of them. 

Sure, Drogon is big and powerful, but he does not threaten the whole realm all by himself.  Same with Gregor (not even CLOSE to threatening the entire realm, in fact)

But the wights, collectively, DO threaten the entire realm, and in fact they threaten every living thing on Planetos.

I think that's a huge, key, distinction.

 

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19 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

Hmmm, it's hard to imagine Tormund allowing a razor within 10 feet of him!  His wild look is part of his appeal.  I sure hope he survived the destruction of the wall.  I think he did because it was crumbling away from him.

Yeah, I'm sure Tormund is fine.  At least it looked like it to me.  My guess is that if he was done, we'd know about it for sure.

But then, maybe not, I suppose.  Some people INSIST that Tyene is dead, even though we have NOT been given that information (MAYBE she has been poisoned, sure, but there are multiple ways she might have gotten out of that)

And I guess Tormund might just be simply done in the show, but I find that hard to believe.  Still, though, there are people who say they've read that when Meera left Bran, that's it, she's done in the show for good.  I find that REALLY hard to believe, especially since we are supposed to see Howland Reed next season, but that's what I've heard.

Dunno for sure.

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9 hours ago, Cron said:

I think the scariest thing about the wight was how whacked out it was.

Drogon is ultra powerful, that's true, but he is under control (Dany's control)

Gregor is big and strong, but he is under control, too (Cersei's control)

But what wight was just whacked out, totally out of control.

And we have to remember that Dany said she saw at least 100,000 of them. 

Sure, Drogon is big and powerful, but he does not threaten the whole realm all by himself.  Same with Gregor (not even CLOSE to threatening the entire realm, in fact)

But the wights, collectively, DO threaten the entire realm, and in fact they threaten every living thing on Planetos.

I think that's a huge, key, distinction.

 

Do we know that Gregor is under Cersei's control?  If he is why didn't he step between her and the wight?  That thing came close to her.  Is it possible something prevents him from fighting other zombies?  We have seen Gregor step up to protect her numerous times, even when she wasn't being threatened, most recently Euron's first arrival at KL, and he wasn't even close to her.  But Gregor doesn't move an inch when the wight charges her.  Doesn't make sense.

Apoligies for posting this premise twice.  

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20 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

This is basically what I would like to see happen with Theon's arc, except that I would like to see him be Yara's advisor, based on the idea that in the process of his redemption he finally learns how to determine the right thing to do, like he told Jon he always wanted to do .  I think that conversation might have been about more than just Jon helping him to resolve his identity crisis (and foreshadowing Jon's forthcoming dilemna).

I have been conflicted about Theon for a long time.  He was put in a difficult position as a child and it's easy to see why he was at war with himself, so I have some sympathy for him.  But he went too far in trying to prove himself to his father with what he did at Winterfell.  It seems he could have found another way to prove himself.  And what Ramsey did to him was far more than he deserved.

Good stuff.

I'm starting to think Theon is on a redemption arc VERY similar to Jaime, and that it won't be complete in the end unless and until they sacrifice their lives.

I'll be stunned if Jaime survives the series, and I'm starting to feel the same way about Theon, too.

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22 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

Jon's decision will be a easier.  He only has to accept that his true parentage, whereas Theon was only a ward of the Starks.

Good point.

Also, it's FAR less likely that the Targaryens will be fighting the Starks, but of course MOST Ironborn are STILL at war with the Starks.

I wonder what Jon's reaction would be if Dany suddenly attacked Winterfell with her dragons, though (after Jon finds out he is half Targaryen)

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22 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

Me too.

Oh, there had to have been.  Perhaps it could have been as simple as Tyrion saying "for the sake of your unborn child, we must defeat the army of the dead or it may never be born." and that would seem reasonable enough persuasion for her to pretend to change her mind. 

I'm sure you're correct, but the only blunder I can think of at the moment is convincing Sansa to marry Ramsey, because although she may not have had much trust for him before that, she had none after.  I think he had an uncanny ability to redirect his schemes when he did blunder, in fact I am sure he had multiple back up plans.

Oh, Littlefinger has made MANY more blunders than.  (1)  He set chaos into motion he couldn't control, and it led to the death of the only person he "loved," Cat.  In fact, I believe Cat was his "end goal," one fo the major reasons he did what he did in the first place.  I believe he wanted Ned dead, and dreamed on being on the Iron Throne with Cat at his side, but no.  She died along the way. OOPS! (2)  Trusting an unstable person like Lysa Arryn, and bringing her into his plots.  Big mistake, and as I recall eh decided he "had" to kill her when she was blurting out what they had done, so he killed her in no small part to silence her, which led to OTHER problems, as we saw in 707. (3)  His stupid lie about the dagger, claiming that the dagger changed hands in a bet in which Tyrion bet against Jaime.  That was an obvious lie, cuz Tyrion would NEVER bet against Jaime, and LF's lie was exposed b/c of it. (4) You mentioned this, but I'm gonna touch on it anyway.  Giving Sansa to the Boltons.  Uhhhhhh...she was horrendously mistreated and abused, and she lost faith in him b/c of it.  And so his plots brought great harm to ANOTHER Tully/Stark woman he claimed to love.  OOPS AGAIN!  (5) Failure to realize and appreciate that he was in EXTREME danger when Bran made the "Chaos is a ladder" comment.  Final OOPS, and that one cost him his life.

Good chance I'm forgetting some other stuff, too. 

22 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

Obtuse, or just so arrogant and overly confident that he couldn't even consider the possibility?

I never thought they would.  I totally expected conflict.  I know this is GoT, and one of them might die in the end, but not at each other's hands.

I was so hoping to see Jon and Arya's reunion this season.  :(

Looks like you were right! Good job!

I'm not saying I thought it made SENSE for Arya and Sansa to try to kill each other, but I did think there was a real possibility the show would go in that direction anyway.  Guess not, though, and I'm glad.

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2 hours ago, Cron said:

Good point.

Also, it's FAR less likely that the Targaryens will be fighting the Starks, but of course MOST Ironborn are STILL at war with the Starks.

I wonder what Jon's reaction would be if Dany suddenly attacked Winterfell with her dragons, though (after Jon finds out he is half Targaryen)

Defend the Starks.  I have no doubt.  He may be half Targ, but he was raised a Stark.  Plus he would consider that a tremendous betrayal.

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1 hour ago, Cron said:

Oh, Littlefinger has made MANY more blunders than.  (1)  He set chaos into motion he couldn't control, and it led to the death of the only person he "loved," Cat.  In fact, I believe Cat was his "end goal," one fo the major reasons he did what he did in the first place.  I believe he wanted Ned dead, and dreamed on being on the Iron Throne with Cat at his side, but no.  She died along the way. OOPS! (2)  Trusting an unstable person like Lysa Arryn, and bringing her into his plots.  Big mistake, and as I recall eh decided he "had" to kill her when she was blurting out what they had done, so he killed her in no small part to silence her, which led to OTHER problems, as we saw in 707. (3)  His stupid lie about the dagger, claiming that the dagger changed hands in a bet in which Tyrion bet against Jaime.  That was an obvious lie, cuz Tyrion would NEVER bet against Jaime, and LF's lie was exposed b/c of it. (4) You mentioned this, but I'm gonna touch on it anyway.  Giving Sansa to the Boltons.  Uhhhhhh...she was horrendously mistreated and abused, and she lost faith in him b/c of it.  And so his plots brought great harm to ANOTHER Tully/Stark woman he claimed to love.  OOPS AGAIN!  (5) Failure to realize and appreciate that he was in EXTREME danger when Bran made the "Chaos is a ladder" comment.  Final OOPS, and that one cost him his life.

What you said about setting into motion events he couldn't control, and then "fixing" them is what I meant about him redirecting his schemes.  But it always catches up in the end.  You have some memory to recall all those specific events!

1 hour ago, Cron said:

Good chance I'm forgetting some other stuff, too. 

Looks like you were right! Good job!

yay me!  ha ha :D

1 hour ago, Cron said:

I'm not saying I thought it made SENSE for Arya and Sansa to try to kill each other, but I did think there was a real possibility the show would go in that direction anyway.  Guess not, though, and I'm glad.

 

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On 8/29/2017 at 1:45 AM, SansaJonRule said:

Let’s see, my 7 blessings of 707 (great thread title btw)

1)       The dragon pit scene, especially Dany’s late entrance and “my apologies”, the look of horror on Cersei’s face when the wight lunges for her, and Jon’s speech about better and better lies.

Yeah, Dany's entrance was fantastic. Very dramatic.  The show's dragons look better than anything I've ever seen on screen before, too.  Pretty cool how it was climbing down that wall, like a giant bat. Very creepy (literally)

On 8/29/2017 at 1:45 AM, SansaJonRule said:

2)      The reunions – notably the Hound and Brienne, Tyrion and Bronn, the Hound and the Mountain

Oh, good one about the Hound and Mountain reunion!  I should have mentioned that.

On 8/29/2017 at 1:45 AM, SansaJonRule said:

3)      Cersei and Tyrion’s meeting, and the fact that she couldn’t kill him even though she wanted to.  You could see the struggle on her face.  Well done!

Yeah, that was interesting. I wonder exactly what she was thinking?

On 8/29/2017 at 1:45 AM, SansaJonRule said:

4)      LF’s trial and execution and the way it played out, as Cron said.  Fabulous scene!

...and that's how LF will be remembered, on his knees crying.  HAR!

On 8/29/2017 at 1:45 AM, SansaJonRule said:

5)      Jaime leaving Cersei (finally), and now she is alone.

I don't think Jaime will be going back to her again, either.  I was pretty surprised when he did so this season, in fact.  I felt it was a regression for him, but hopefully that's behind us all for good now.

On 8/29/2017 at 1:45 AM, SansaJonRule said:

6)      Sansa and Arya’s conversation, and the way they remembered their father.

Nice touch, showing Ned's continuing and lasting impact on characters who are sill alive.

On 8/29/2017 at 1:45 AM, SansaJonRule said:

7)      Finally received confirmation of Jon’s parentage and the fact he is the heir to the iron throne.

The wall coming down was spectacular, but as the story arc goes, it was only a matter of time.

I considered including this. Certainly it was a grand spectacle, but I tend to favor dialogue.  Action is great, though, gotta have it at some point, and yeah, that scene was very well done!

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On 8/29/2017 at 5:02 AM, ummester said:

I think the lack of imagination is the other way around :D Jamie knows the dragon can toast a whole bunch of troops in a fly by and then, when Cersie sees the size of the thing, surely she must be thinking, 'fuck me, that is dangerous'.

No-one other than Cersie, Jamie and Qyburn had really seen the mountain close up. His eyes are ugly, not like the wights pretty blue eyes and, as mentioned, he must stink being a huge lump of reanimated flesh stuck in armour. The wight has some kind of frozen preservation so must not stink as much.

Seriously, it's like comparing a fire breathing T-rex to Jason Vorhees to a run of the mill zombie - and you find the zombie scariest? I'd take my chances with the zombie any day - it was small and even in the dark you could see where it is because of it's eyes.

Well, those are interesting thoughts, but I think the thing that made the wight scary was that it was totally whacked out, totally out of control.

Drogon is big and powerful, but Dany controls him, and he is under control.

Gregor is big and powerful, but Cersei controls him, and he is under control.

The wight, on the other hand was totally whacked out.     And that's scary to a lot of people.

Further, note that there is only one Drogon, and only one Gregor, but Dany said there were over 100,000 in the Army of the Dead.

So that's scary, cuz of strength in numbers.

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