Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Wildling Queen

That look on Tyrion's face

Recommended Posts

As a side note concerning Tyrion, how is it Jorah contracted Greyscale by reaching into the water to save Tyrion but Tyrion was unaffected? I know this is a cornerstone in the Tyrion is a secret Targ theory and I also don't believe they're going that route in the show but it seems odd never to address it. I realize this was given to Jorah in lieu of Connington but it seems Tyrion would have been susceptible. For that matter, Jorah also made physical contact with Dany in the fighting pits and she too was unaffected. I know in the books Targs are supposedly immune so that could explain away Danny's contact it doesn't do much for quelling the Tyrion Targaryen notions though. That or Greyscale isn't as contagious in the show.

 

Edit: Fwiw I prefer Tyrion to be a Lannister. It makes the dynamic between Tywin and Tyrion much better. Plus, I like to think of Tyrion as the embodiment of Lann the Clever. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, jandslegate said:

As a side note concerning Tyrion, how is it Jorah contracted Greyscale by reaching into the water to save Tyrion but Tyrion was unaffected? I know this is a cornerstone in the Tyrion is a secret Targ theory and I also don't believe they're going that route in the show but it seems odd never to address it. I realize this was given to Jorah in lieu of Connington but it seems Tyrion would have been susceptible. For that matter, Jorah also made physical contact with Dany in the fighting pits and she too was unaffected. I know in the books Targs are supposedly immune so that could explain away Danny's contact it doesn't do much for quelling the Tyrion Targaryen notions though. That or Greyscale isn't as contagious in the show.

Same reason Connington got it and Tyrion did not: plot. It was meant to be that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Wildling Queen said:

"this writing is so sophisticated"  hahahahah lol kkkk batshit crazy      Seriously, in what world would not cerci kill the dwarf immediately (at request!)?

 

It is the look of a traitor maybe, remember the visions? He is loyal to Jaime and the unborn child, family. He has done really nothing for Danny who is slipping from his influence.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dragonslack said:

"this writing is so sophisticated"  hahahahah lol kkkk batshit crazy      Seriously, in what world would not cerci kill the dwarf immediately (at request!)

Killing the Hand of Queen Daenerys, while she has 2 dragons above the city and and a massive army outside the city walls?

Killing Tyrion would've also prevented her from selling the lie about coming north to help.

Good enough reasons for her not to kill Tyrion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I noticed a "look" first in season 6 episode 10. Right after the Mad King's daughter breaks up with Dario, Tyrion consoles her saying "He wasn't the first to you love and he won't be the last". And the camera stays on him a tad longer than required. And when she speaks he's, sort of, stirred out of a stupor that he had fallen into while uttering those words. Very subtle. But maybe I'm wrong. There's already Jorah for the 'unrequited love' plot - no writer would unnecessarily complicate things unless GRRM himself is going in that direction.

But there's another look of Tyrion which persistently runs throughout season 7. A look that Cersei betrayed once when she admitted that she could not 'control' Joffrey (infant murders episode). Maybe Tyrion is becoming aware about the insanity lurking underneath Daenerys' rational exterior (the unfairness of using Dragons in a war, burning lords alive while claiming to end slavery - bend the knee or burn in no choice at all, come on!). It was already getting difficult to control her and now that Jon is there it'll be even more so. Tyrion himself admits to Cersei (Season 7 finale) that the (only?) difference between her and Daenerys is that she has chosen a counsel who will check her worst impulses (but he is unable to impose that check as he himself acknowledged to Varys after Tarly Roast incident). With Jon in the middle (filling up her head with impracticalities like morality and honesty), his task becomes more difficult. (I don't think he knows that Jon's the rightful heir). #BoatLook is maybe the extension of the same worry.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The director of the episode explains it with respect to what has happened. The Jon/Dany sex was unplanned and now that this has happened, there is no clear way to know what the consequences of it will be. Jon and Dany themselves, he says, realize that perhaps they shouldn't be doing this, but are too overpowered by their feelings and passions, unable to stop. The vibe I get is that both of them seem to have taken complete leave of their senses and jumped into something without knowing where it will go. Tyrion, realizing where things have gone now has to think about this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/29/2017 at 2:35 AM, princess brittany said:

you think sansa will be on the throne?

With Dany and Jon dead? Yes, but she will be more the president of the new republic of westeros than a Queen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/29/2017 at 7:36 PM, Tadco26 said:

Emphasis is completely yours.  Why would he keep Tyrion around if he knew he was a bastard, he hates that he is a dwarf and his child birth caused the death of his wife?  He never bothers to tell Tyrion or anyone else when he could lawfully disown him and no one would say a word?

Exactly. There is a reason why he kept him. Son or not he hates the guts of him. But he let him leave, not out of fatherly love.

This is not the point. The point is: he treats him like Tyrion were not his son, very much like Cat treated Jon. And perhaps he suspected he wasn't but kept him nevertheless. Because he's a Lannister -he doesn't say the more obvious: because you're my son. 

Tywin says to jaime and Cersei often enough that they are his son and daughter. But Tyrion is always a Lannister (which doesn't make him his son).

There are other hints throughout the series, quite obvious, IMO:

a) From Tyrion himself: "All dwarfs are bastards in their father's eyes"

2) Tyrion fascination with dragons (which Jon doesn't have until he sees one)

3) How Tyrion interacts with dragons in S6E2 - Doesn't anybody sees a parallel with Jon petting Drogon? Tyrion literally hypnotizes two starved, angry dragons with his words. And he pets one of them too before letting them free. Can just anybody do that? Dany was not there with him, I add.

True, the show did not hint at any familiarity of the Mad King with Joanna, but doesn't need to. Tyrion is proof enough, I believe.

And I add one more thing, and this is my observation alone: a striking parallelism in the lives of Jon, Dany and Tyrion: all three lost their mother at birth, all three were mistreated from brother, father and stepmother. All three exiled (Jon to the Wall, Tyrion after killing his father, Dany from her birth). All three with a love lost.  

I could continue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Ranger Kragin said:

Exactly. There is a reason why he kept him. Son or not he hates the guts of him. But he let him leave, not out of fatherly love.

This is not the point. The point is: he treats him like Tyrion were not his son, very much like Cat treated Jon. And perhaps he suspected he wasn't but kept him nevertheless. Because he's a Lannister -he doesn't say the more obvious: because you're my son. 

Tywin says to jaime and Cersei often enough that they are his son and daughter. But Tyrion is always a Lannister (which doesn't make him his son).

There are other hints throughout the series, quite obvious, IMO:

a) From Tyrion himself: "All dwarfs are bastards in their father's eyes"

2) Tyrion fascination with dragons (which Jon doesn't have until he sees one)

3) How Tyrion interacts with dragons in S6E2 - Doesn't anybody sees a parallel with Jon petting Drogon? Tyrion literally hypnotizes two starved, angry dragons with his words. And he pets one of them too before letting them free. Can just anybody do that? Dany was not there with him, I add.

True, the show did not hint at any familiarity of the Mad King with Joanna, but doesn't need to. Tyrion is proof enough, I believe.

And I add one more thing, and this is my observation alone: a striking parallelism in the lives of Jon, Dany and Tyrion: all three lost their mother at birth, all three were mistreated from brother, father and stepmother. All three exiled (Jon to the Wall, Tyrion after killing his father, Dany from her birth). All three with a love lost.  

I could continue.

Those aren't hints that Tyrion isn't Tywin's son.  To the contrary they are showing how much Tywin hates that Tyrion is his son.  And he does say Tyrion is his son when he sends him to be Hand in King's Landing:

 

"Why me?" he asked, cocking his head to one side. "Why not my uncle? Why not Ser Addam or Ser Flement or Lord Serrett? Why not a... bigger man?"

Lord Tywin rose abruptly. "You are my son."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/28/2017 at 0:21 AM, tallTale said:

We still haven't concluded all of Quaith's prophecies, so who knows maybe Tyrion betrays her for love lol

My thoughts exactly! But I always thought it would have been for the love of his family. E.g. like when Jamie was on the battle field, lets say he gets captured after to trying to kill Dany instead of the stupid swim seen, Tyrion manages to convince Dany to not roast Jamie on the spot because he's a valuable political prison only to sneak him out like Jamie did for him. Thereby betraying Dany for familial love.

I pray to the old Gods and the new that it's not a fucking love triangle out of left field to play out on only 5 episodes left. 

All I can hope for is it's just a "concern-angst" face like the one he was sporting during the battle against the Lannister army. Like I don't like this, they're not considering the consequences, etc face. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Technically, Tyrion has already betrayed Daenerys in a way by delaying her conquest of Kings Landing, just for the sake of saving his own family (or more precisely, Jamie.) 

As for Quaith's prophecies, they are never actually mentioned in the show, so they will most likely not have an impact in the show either.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/29/2017 at 2:24 PM, jandslegate said:

As a side note concerning Tyrion, how is it Jorah contracted Greyscale by reaching into the water to save Tyrion but Tyrion was unaffected? I know this is a cornerstone in the Tyrion is a secret Targ theory and I also don't believe they're going that route in the show but it seems odd never to address it. I realize this was given to Jorah in lieu of Connington but it seems Tyrion would have been susceptible. For that matter, Jorah also made physical contact with Dany in the fighting pits and she too was unaffected. I know in the books Targs are supposedly immune so that could explain away Danny's contact it doesn't do much for quelling the Tyrion Targaryen notions though. That or Greyscale isn't as contagious in the show.

 

Edit: Fwiw I prefer Tyrion to be a Lannister. It makes the dynamic between Tywin and Tyrion much better. Plus, I like to think of Tyrion as the embodiment of Lann the Clever. 

I think jorah got touched by one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MinscS2 said:

As for Quaith's prophecies, they are never actually mentioned in the show, so they will most likely not have an impact in the show either.

To play devil's advocate for a moment, I'm not sure D&D are keeping very good track of which prophecies they did and didn't cut.

For example, on the show, Mirri's prophecy didn't mention Dany giving birth at all, but this season, they made it pretty clear that Dany's belief that she can't get pregnant is entirely based on the full book version of Mirri's prophecy anyway. I'm not sure if they've forgotten they cut that line, or decided that 99% of the viewers won't remember and will just accept that there was something about barrenness in that prophecy, but it's got to be one of the two. So, we can't rule out 100% that they'd guide things by Quaithe's prophecies.

Turning off devil's advocate mode, it does seem like much more of a stretch to throw in Quaithe's prophecies than to throw in one cut line from a prophecy that they did otherwise include and make a big deal out of, so I think you're probably right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Technically, Tyrion has already betrayed Daenerys in a way by delaying her conquest of Kings Landing, just for the sake of saving his own family (or more precisely, Jamie.) 

As for Quaith's prophecies, they are never actually mentioned in the show, so they will most likely not have an impact in the show either.
 

I personally think it would be beyond stupid on Tyrion's part to side up with Cersei and betray Dany for any reason at all, even if he was mad at her for whatever the reason now that he knows the dead are coming and she is the one with dragons lol  However, I think it is very much in Tyrion's style to give some concession to the opposite party and I would not be surprised if he promised Cersei to try and find a good position for her unborn child if she accepted the truce, or even to try to groom the child up for rule.  He seems to truly believe that Dany cannot have children.  Still he didn't know that Cersei was pregnant so the talk about succession with Dany could not have been preparing the field for that.

Now, whether this is betrayal or not... To me the term betrayal is too strong in this instance.  Switching sides or trying to take away her power for her or her descendants if there were any when the action took place would have been done but Dany may see it differently...

As for delaying a full attack on Kingslanding although I am sure he was looking out for Jaime I honestly believe that he didn't want a massacre of civilian, on the one hand for humanitarian reasons and in another because strategically this would put the people against Dany not in her favour and would come to prove that she is not different to her father so no other advice was really possible I don't think.

If Dany were to execute Jaime without giving him the chance to explain himself this may push him over the edge or if she goes all Mad Queen but I doubt this is going to happen really.  In the worse case scenario he has to stay on that team due to necessity even if his heart wasn't in it (although I think he genuinely thinks that Dany is the best option).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Morgana Lannister said:

As for delaying a full attack on Kingslanding although I am sure he was looking out for Jaime I honestly believe that he didn't want a massacre of civilian, on the one hand for humanitarian reasons and in another because strategically this would put the people against Dany not in her favour and would come to prove that she is not different to her father so no other advice was really possible I don't think.

He wanted to siege (and starve) the capital though. The civilians, especially the poor, would've been the first to suffer anyway.

But I agree, I don't think (and I hope) that Tyrion isn't actually thinking about betraying Dany. I can buy the producers explanation that his expression was supposed to show worry and disapproval, that he knows that a romance between Jon and Dany will complicate things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/29/2017 at 2:31 PM, Jaime F Lannister said:

 

I noticed a "look" first in season 6 episode 10. Right after the Mad King's daughter breaks up with Dario, Tyrion consoles her saying "He wasn't the first to you love and he won't be the last". And the camera stays on him a tad longer than required. And when she speaks he's, sort of, stirred out of a stupor that he had fallen into while uttering those words. Very subtle. But maybe I'm wrong. There's already Jorah for the 'unrequited love' plot - no writer would unnecessarily complicate things unless GRRM himself is going in that direction.

But there's another look of Tyrion which persistently runs throughout season 7. A look that Cersei betrayed once when she admitted that she could not 'control' Joffrey (infant murders episode). Maybe Tyrion is becoming aware about the insanity lurking underneath Daenerys' rational exterior (the unfairness of using Dragons in a war, burning lords alive while claiming to end slavery - bend the knee or burn in no choice at all, come on!). It was already getting difficult to control her and now that Jon is there it'll be even more so. Tyrion himself admits to Cersei (Season 7 finale) that the (only?) difference between her and Daenerys is that she has chosen a counsel who will check her worst impulses (but he is unable to impose that check as he himself acknowledged to Varys after Tarly Roast incident). With Jon in the middle (filling up her head with impracticalities like morality and honesty), his task becomes more difficult. (I don't think he knows that Jon's the rightful heir). #BoatLook is maybe the extension of the same worry.

 

There can only be 1 Lord Friendzone and his name is Jorah Mormount 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/29/2017 at 11:14 AM, Ingelheim said:

I see three possibilities here.

1-He loves Dany and is jealous.

2-He knows Jon + Dany is going to cause a lot of problems for everyone

3-He's made some kind of pact with Cersei and Jon+Dany screws it up.

You forgot the fourth option.  That the showrunners are purposefully misleading the audience in order to generate discussion but which will ultimately lead to nothing.  

See also:

Arya stabbed theories

Arya vs Sansa theories

 

The showrunners were given the corner and edge pieces to a very complex jigsaw puzzle and they're doing their best to fill in the entire picture.  Unfortunately the disparity between the quality of storytelling is very noticeable.  

The only thing we can really do is sit back and try to enjoy the spectacle.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MinscS2 said:

He wanted to siege (and starve) the capital though. The civilians, especially the poor, would've been the first to suffer anyway.

But I agree, I don't think (and I hope) that Tyrion isn't actually thinking about betraying Dany. I can buy the producers explanation that his expression was supposed to show worry and disapproval, that he knows that a romance between Jon and Dany will complicate things.

Yes, he did favour a siege and yes the poor would suffer but I guess not as much as with being totally blown apart, a siege takes time and thing can change in that time but point granted.

Oh, definitely, I have just posted something on these lines in the Bran needing to make the revelation to Jon now thread.

I don't think the complications will be awfully long lived though since the threat by WWs seems pretty imminent but still and noone is going to have much choice (apart from Cersei it would appear) but to back up the only party with some sort of chance.  Still, for one thing the Northern Lords are going to think that he has sold them off for love or lust... I personally think that making such a big meal about Jon telling Cersei the truth was in preparation for this.  I would certainly advise them to keep this relationship very quiet for now or if they must marry to pass it off as a political marriage not one for love.  Tyrion of all people should know this.  He has been known to be able to go to any lengths for a woman when he is besotted and surely must see how this can end badly, and make you look like an idiot not trustworthy when it comes to ruling.  I personally don't see any reason to believe that he suspects Jon's true parentage but anything is possible.  If he does suspect it OMG sure.  

Still when he talked to Dany in season's 6 finale it sounded to me as if he was not mentioning names but had Jon in mind when he advised Dany to make herself available for a political marriage.  Also when they were talking by the fire (Tyrion and Dany) it seemed to me that he was either playing Cupid or just trying to figure her out re Jon but he didn't appear perturbed by that in any way.  There was a marked change between that scene and the look in s 7 finale.  What had changed??? Pretty much open to speculation but either it is something he promised Cersei (yet still he has no clue that Dany is basing her idea of being barren on some mad witch's saying) so he has no reason to say a possible baby as a threat.  My money is on him thinking that the fact that they are in love and certainly last could make them do impulsive things as he certainly has himself been there and knows what is like.  This topped up by the fact that Jon is proving unable not to speak the truth at all times and I am pretty inclined to think that Tyrion is right actually.  Please Jon do keep this love relationship quite, make it look as a purely political union if you must!

In fact I think that is the reason behind Tyrion's change or heart.  On the one hand he seems (although I could have misread this) almost intend on setting them up together and when they do he freaks, or appears to.  Now, I think he wanted a political marriage and hey if they lived happily ever after in peace times he would be cool with it I am sure but he wanted a political marriage not an unpredictable full blown out romance.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

He wanted to siege (and starve) the capital though. The civilians, especially the poor, would've been the first to suffer anyway.

But I agree, I don't think (and I hope) that Tyrion isn't actually thinking about betraying Dany. I can buy the producers explanation that his expression was supposed to show worry and disapproval, that he knows that a romance between Jon and Dany will complicate things.

There is no way Dany could take King's Landing without serious civilian casualties, no matter what she does. As soon as Cersei would realise that the battle is lost, she would set the city on fire via wildfire. It doesn't matter if she uses Dragons or not, that would be the outcome. Only way to take the KL would be to find a way how to kill Cersei before the siege. Like using the services of Faceless men, meaning Arya.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/28/2017 at 0:07 AM, Sand11751 said:

First thought - Christ, another one who's in love with her? But I'm hoping it means he anticipates some kind of problem, though I can't imagine what. Can't be that he knows Jon's real heritage. So for now, I'll go with jealousy. But really I just want to pretend much of this roughshod pacing and alliances never happened. Like Dallas. We'll all wake up and find it was all a dream. 

I've been wondering in the back of my mind if we are supposed to wonder if Bran and Sam sent a raven (never mind the moving ship thing, the show wouldn't LOL) and Tyrion read some dire warning.  DO NOT BANG YOUR AUNT, JON!!!  I kinda doubt it because I suspect that we'll have to have this shit dragged out next season, but still, I wonder.  There has been off screen comments from show runners and Dinklage, too, I think, that Tyrion loves her, yes.  There's that too.  (If that's the idea, they should try to mention it onscreen, but that isn't the show's strong suit) 

ETA:  YES, I am still in love with your avi.  :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×