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Corvinus

Will we get Connington next season? (books spoilers)

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Can we be real here for a minute? D&D get a lot of criticism here, much of it justified, but cutting FAegon and JonCon from the story is a substantial improvement, from a storytelling POV, over what GRRM offered up by including them.

GRRM had a good simple story going, he got too clever, and then five books in, decided to include a whole new storyline that everybody knows is going nowhere. How the show handled Varys and the Golden Company is one of the very few areas where they have substantially improved GRRM's work by cutting out some of the self-indulgent stuff he included.

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no way they are gonna do anything like that

there is no time

the last season will just focus on the great war and then the civil war with Cersei

THE END

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13 minutes ago, Johnimus said:

Can we be real here for a minute? D&D get a lot of criticism here, much of it justified, but cutting FAegon and JonCon from the story is a substantial improvement, from a storytelling POV, over what GRRM offered up by including them.

GRRM had a good simple story going, he got too clever, and then five books in, decided to include a whole new storyline that everybody knows is going nowhere. How the show handled Varys and the Golden Company is one of the very few areas where they have substantially improved GRRM's work by cutting out some of the self-indulgent stuff he included.

I kind of disagree, not about the shows decision but on GRRMs decision.  I think the inclusion just allowed more fan theories and everything in between but I thought he tied it in decently so far with the overarching story (FAegon and GC that is).

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12 minutes ago, Johnimus said:

Can we be real here for a minute? D&D get a lot of criticism here, much of it justified, but cutting FAegon and JonCon from the story is a substantial improvement, from a storytelling POV, over what GRRM offered up by including them.

GRRM had a good simple story going, he got too clever, and then five books in, decided to include a whole new storyline that everybody knows is going nowhere. How the show handled Varys and the Golden Company is one of the very few areas where they have substantially improved GRRM's work by cutting out some of the self-indulgent stuff he included.

Isn't the point of Aegon for the Dance of the Dragons 2.0?

I kinda liked the plot of f/Aegon in the books. I thought it was interesting. But I don't disagree with you about being cut from the show. D&D have basically nothing to work with in regards to Aegon, so it's better to just not have him then try to fumble through with the character. Though if they are merging Jon with the character, I don't know if I agree with that either.

But I guess that depends on how it all ends really.

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16 minutes ago, Johnimus said:

Can we be real here for a minute? D&D get a lot of criticism here, much of it justified, but cutting FAegon and JonCon from the story is a substantial improvement, from a storytelling POV, over what GRRM offered up by including them.

GRRM had a good simple story going, he got too clever, and then five books in, decided to include a whole new storyline that everybody knows is going nowhere. How the show handled Varys and the Golden Company is one of the very few areas where they have substantially improved GRRM's work by cutting out some of the self-indulgent stuff he included.

I disagree. I thought much of it was quite well done, but again, the problem is, with all this time between the books, it's bound that some of the theories will hit close to the mark about will happen. And you call him fAegon, but say that five books in, GRRM decided to do this. Which is simply not true. Hints about the mummer's dragon have been given since Dany's vision in the House of the Undying, so GRRM had this in mind for a long time.

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8 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

define "book snobs".

 

I'll bite, so a "book snob" could be someone who consistently rates the show less than a 5 on a scale of 1-10 because ________ was different from the books or _______ from the books was omitted. 

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9 hours ago, Corvinus said:

Eh? When was this mentioned?

At least in S4E07:

  • Didn't you fight for the Golden Company before pledging your sword to my brother?
  • I did.

In the books, I believe we don't know which sellsword company he fought with except that it's not the Second Sons and they fought the Braavosi at some point.

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8 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

define "book snobs".

Here's how you tell the difference. When the show reveals someone named Tyene Sand, or Jon's real name being Aegon, there are three possible reactions:

  • No reaction to the name. These are unsullied.
  • "Damnit, that's not Tyene/Young Griff/etc." These are book snobs.
  • "Cool, it's Tyene/Aegon/etc." These people do not exist, but every once in a while D&D seem to forget that.

 

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Oh god, please no. 

First of all, Jon Con should have been edited out of the books too. It's a god awful storyline and a blatantly obvious and redundant detour for the plot. 

Second of all, no sane person would introduce a new character in the least season of a show, especially if they are reluctant to kill the existing characters. There were like twenty goddamn named characters at the summit. ("Dany", Aegon, Davos, Brienne, Podrick, Bronn, Theon, Varys, The most moral man in the world,  Jaime, Cersei, the Hound, Gregor, Qyburn, Euron, Missandei, Grey Worm - okay 17) Half of these characters should be dead already. If they introduce more characters, they won't be able to fit them into a single shot anymore. For fuck's sake just kill people.

Third of all, it really bloody doesn't matter because the plot demands the good guys to win and the bad guys to lose. There are no stakes. "Dany" and Aegon will win against the dead and against Cersei regardless of the Golden Company's role. They can fill two episodes with them to delay the inevitable, but it really serves no purpose whatsoever. 

Fourth of all, the show doesn't really care about Rhaegar's backstory, they care about creating a context in which Aegon the chosen boy who lived, the legitimate prince that was promised, Isildur's heir and bringer of balance to the force can defeat the walking dead with his magic sword, and return to the throne of gondor. Which they did, once Gilly read that's rheggar annulled his marriage and married someone else. Nothing else matters. 

Fifth of all, the golden company stuff might be completely abandoned. It's just a door they left open so they have more freedom with the plot next season. They can make Euron screw Cersei over for a balanced scale if they want to. They can bring the golden company and give the storyline half an hour of filler time to pretend they know how to write a complicated story. They can bring back Daario and have a face off among all the characters who crush on "Dany". They can bring back Daario and have him screw Cersei over for a balanced scale.

Either way, if any name character is coming with the golden company, that's going to be Daario. 

 

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21 hours ago, Johnimus said:

Can we be real here for a minute? D&D get a lot of criticism here, much of it justified, but cutting FAegon and JonCon from the story is a substantial improvement, from a storytelling POV, over what GRRM offered up by including them.

GRRM had a good simple story going, he got too clever, and then five books in, decided to include a whole new storyline that everybody knows is going nowhere. How the show handled Varys and the Golden Company is one of the very few areas where they have substantially improved GRRM's work by cutting out some of the self-indulgent stuff he included.

Absolutely agreed.

When I was reading that, I thought, "Oh no... please just die... please no, not another complication."

 

The same goes for all of the bits with Brienne, and the moments in Dorne and the Iron Islands. When that was truncated into about twenty minutes of screen time across the entire series, it was great.

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21 hours ago, Johnimus said:

Can we be real here for a minute? D&D get a lot of criticism here, much of it justified, but cutting FAegon and JonCon from the story is a substantial improvement, from a storytelling POV, over what GRRM offered up by including them.

GRRM had a good simple story going, he got too clever, and then five books in, decided to include a whole new storyline that everybody knows is going nowhere. How the show handled Varys and the Golden Company is one of the very few areas where they have substantially improved GRRM's work by cutting out some of the self-indulgent stuff he included.

I totally agree with this. I, for one, hope they just keep to the idea of the GC being an elite mercenary army, so as to even the odds for Cersei a wee bit.

 

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Just now, Jaime's Wench said:

I totally agree with this. I, for one, hope they just keep to the idea of the GC being an elite mercenary army, so as to even the odds for Cersei a wee bit.

 

That annoys me that it's Cersei who hires them. Her family was allied to the Baratheons - and she turned against them. Tyrion forged an alliance with Dorne, which she turned against. Tywin secured an alliance with the Reach, which she turned against. She literally just allied with the Targaryens and broke that immediately. In fact, she planned on breaking it before she even accepted it!

I see no reason why mercenaries would take the word of somebody who always betrays her allies. There's no good reason they'd fight for her, since they need rock-solid reassurance that they'll be paid, be allowed to keep their loot and won't be chased about afterwards for a refund (a common practice all throughout history).

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The Golden Company would go really well with Jorah/Sam knowing that there is a cure for grayscale.

Like the GC start getting infected, and the others, who are on Dany's side, know the cure (that was NEVER addressed, major plot hole).

Could make a good side story.

 

I'd rule that possibility out, though.

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12 minutes ago, Holly Macaroni said:

The Golden Company would go really well with Jorah/Sam knowing that there is a cure for grayscale.

Like the GC start getting infected, and the others, who are on Dany's side, know the cure (that was NEVER addressed, major plot hole).

Could make a good side story.

 

I'd rule that possibility out, though.

Except that in the show the GC has no link to GS whatsoever, in the books its JC the one who gets infected and put the company at risk, with his part handed to Jorah and his GS already cured it wont make any sense that GS will get to westeros, even less infect the unseen GC.

the BF conspiracy has been in the books since day 1, its not a last minute resource, now the fact that was being used by GRRM to cut the mereneese knot its what seems to give that impression, but in reality the two plots have little to do with each other

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On 8/28/2017 at 9:26 AM, Johnimus said:

Can we be real here for a minute? D&D get a lot of criticism here, much of it justified, but cutting FAegon and JonCon from the story is a substantial improvement, from a storytelling POV, over what GRRM offered up by including them.

GRRM had a good simple story going, he got too clever, and then five books in, decided to include a whole new storyline that everybody knows is going nowhere. How the show handled Varys and the Golden Company is one of the very few areas where they have substantially improved GRRM's work by cutting out some of the self-indulgent stuff he included.

I agree. I don't hate the idea of a Dance of the Dragons 2.0, in fact I think it's somewhat necessary to weaken Dany's forces in order to make the threat of the Others more dire. But Aegon and Connington are awful, boring characters that showed up out of the blue. I think GRRM should've given Aegon's role to Edric Storm or something, so at least it wouldn't have felt like a soap opera twist. 

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I thought Stannis was supposed to get Golden Company to fight for him.

Anyways: they can just mention a thing or two, with JonCon being different than in the books.

What I'd really like to see is an army marching with gold sculls on their pikes and with words "Beneath the gold, the bitter steel" on their banners. What I will get will be more clone soldiers.

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Nope. The whole fAegon storyline was cut from the Show. 

In fact I'm fairly certain we won't get any new character. Season 6 introduced already the ones that matter the most to the story.

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Am I remembering wrong, or was the Golden Company breaking its contract (the first time ever) to go fight FOR Dany in the books?

Plus I also find it humorous that D&D have doubled their size.

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