Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

falcotron

Why is Jon's name Aegon?

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Or Arthur Dayne's...

If Arthur Dayne was the father, I think it would've been harder for Rhaegar to convince him to guard Lyanna and not his own children. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Or Arthur Dayne's...

Well, I must admit I had not thought about that. Yes, they could be Dayne's as well, although I don't see Elia as the cheating type.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

The woman in the vision is definitely Elia. Ran's HoTU entry at The Citadel says that Martin confirmed the vision to be Elia, Rhaegar and new born Aegon so there is really no reason to entertain any other alternatives unless one considers Ran to be lying.

Why would George spill the beans on his big reveal? Why not just ask him to tell us all the secrets left in the books.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, good girl said:

Why would George spill the beans on his big reveal? Why not just ask him to tell us all the secrets left in the books.

 

Because the woman in the vision being Elia is not intended to be a mystery. Martin knows how to be evasion when he wants to be. When something was intended to be clear in the books, he is willing to state what he had intended to be clear. Only the elaborate overthinking of readers makes the identity of the woman in the vision a mystery. The identity is not supposed to be a mystery -- it is Elia. If the identity was supposed to be unclear or a "twist" then Martin would have been more evasive in his answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

Because the woman in the vision being Elia is not intended to be a mystery. Martin knows how to be evasion when he wants to be. When something was intended to be clear in the books, he is willing to state what he had intended to be clear. Only the elaborate overthinking of readers makes the identity of the woman in the vision a mystery. The identity is not supposed to be a mystery -- it is Elia. If the identity was supposed to be unclear or a "twist" then Martin would have been more evasive in his answer.

But if someone asks and he is evasive then it becomes clear the woman isn't Elia and gives the game away.

Does anyone have a link to George confirming this other than the note on Elio's blog entry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, good girl said:

But if someone asks and he is evasive then it becomes clear the woman isn't Elia and gives the game away.

Does anyone have a link to George confirming this other than the note on Elio's blog entry.

I also do not think I got your answer to explain Rhaegar naming Jon Aegon while the other Aegon still lived. Did Rhaegar really expect to have two sons with the same name (even if from different mothers)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, good girl said:

Why would George spill the beans on his big reveal? Why not just ask him to tell us all the secrets left in the books.

Why don't you ask that question to Ran because, how the hell should I know? Obviously if Martin was comfortable revealing this info to Ran and Ran was comfortable including this info in the citadel entry then it stands to reason that the identities of the people in the vision are not meant to be a "big secret" requiring a "big reveal.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Why don't you ask that question to Ran because, how the hell should I know? Obviously if Martin was comfortable revealing this info to Ran and Ran was comfortable including this info in the citadel entry then it stands to reason that the identities of the people in the vision are not meant to be a "big secret" requiring a "big reveal.

 

I like it better when we agree -- we have been disagreeing too much lately.

ETA: :cheers:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

I like it better when we agree -- we have been disagreeing too much lately.

ETA: :cheers:

It's more fun being contrarian though. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

If Arthur Dayne was the father, I think it would've been harder for Rhaegar to convince him to guard Lyanna and not his own children. 

Isn't that exactly the type of moral complexities Martin likes to create. Arthur Dayne, torn by guilt, deciding to honor his oath rather than abandoning his duty, ending up protecting the child of the man whose wife he fathered children with.

28 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Well, I must admit I had not thought about that. Yes, they could be Dayne's as well, although I don't see Elia as the cheating type.

Elia was Dornish. The Dornish are promiscuous and fond of paramours. She is Arriane's aunt, and Arriane was captivated by the beauty of Gerold Dayne.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Jaime F Lannister said:

Why is Jon's name Aegon? Due to sheer indifference and lack of imagination by both, biological and foster parents. Aegon was in Valyria what Jon was in winterfell, what John is in the present day US ;)

That would be cute if true -- unfortunately, it does not appear to be. The best evidence for names in the North would be the Stark family tree, and the name Jon does not appear on it at all (Brandon and then Benjen appear to be most common). The two characters other than Jon Snow that are introduced to the readers are from the Vale (Jon Arryn) or the stormlands (Jon Connington).

While Aegon is the most common Targ name -- I don't think we have any evidence that it was the most common Valyrian name -- but I will give you half credit as it is the most common Targ name, after all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Isn't that exactly the type of moral complexities Martin likes to create. Arthur Dayne, torn by guilt, deciding to honor his oath rather than abandoning his duty, ending up protecting the child of the man whose wife he fathered children with.

Elia was Dornish. The Dornish are promiscuous and fond of paramours. She is Arriane's aunt, and Arriane was captivated by the beauty of Gerold Dayne.

Just to clarify, Arianne was captivated by the beauty of Gerold Dayne because he looks like a dragon lord. 

By this logic, should not Elia really love Rhaegar instead of Arthur?

Or you mean Arthur is more beautiful than Rhaegar?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, UnmaskedLurker said:

I also do not think I got your answer to explain Rhaegar naming Jon Aegon while the other Aegon still lived. Did Rhaegar really expect to have two sons with the same name (even if from different mothers)?

He actions are clearly driven by prophecy and that is why they don't make rational sense. Why take a second wife in Lyanna when he has Elia. How can you apply any sense to actions that make none.

He thought the Prince that was Promised should be named Aegon so that is what he named his son (and presumably his heir). I don't think we need to look further for reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm betting he sticks with Jon.  He just needs Sam or Arya or someone to tell him that "this doesn't change who you are, you'll always be Jon to me" and then it'll be fine.

Hell, Ser Robert Strong went back to being "The Mountain" and "Ser Gregor Clegane" after one episode of having a new name.  Even if Jon takes a new name and sticks with it in the books they won't switch it up in the show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, good girl said:

He actions are clearly driven by prophecy and that is why they don't make rational sense. Why take a second wife in Lyanna when he has Elia. How can you apply any sense to actions that make none.

He thought the Prince that was Promised should be named Aegon so that is what he named his son (and presumably his heir). I don't think we need to look further for reasons.

Do you really think Jon's name is Aegon in the book?

GRRM created thousands of named characters and hundreds of family trees, can you name one case that two siblings share a same name?

you are using book material (polygamy, Rhaegar's prophecy) to explain this name in the show.

it is just like you are using motivation of Jeyne Westerling to explain motivation of Talisa Maegyar.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, purple-eyes said:

Do you really think Jon's name is Aegon in the book?

GRRM created thousands of named characters and hundreds of family trees, can you name one case that two siblings share a same name?

you are using book material (polygamy, Rhaegar's prophecy) to explain this name in the show.

it is just like you are using motivation of Jeyne Westerling to explain motivation of Talisa Maegyar.  

Yes I think the vision of Rhaegar, a woman and a baby in the HotU is Jon's birth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

.

Elia was Dornish. The Dornish are promiscuous and fond of paramours. She is Arriane's aunt, and Arriane was captivated by the beauty of Gerold Dayne.

Yes, but we are also told she was kind, fragile and sweet...I just don't see it, though Martin could go that way.

I guess we'll have to wait for Winds, just like with everything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

Do you really think Jon's name is Aegon in the book?

GRRM created thousands of named characters and hundreds of family trees, can you name one case that two siblings share a same name?

you are using book material (polygamy, Rhaegar's prophecy) to explain this name in the show.

it is just like you are using motivation of Jeyne Westerling to explain motivation of Talisa Maegyar.  

Even if we go by just what has happened in the show, Rhaegar annulled his marriage to Elia for some reason, and it is quite possible that he wanted his son by Lyanna to have a star targ name, thus trying to establish his claim over his son by Elia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×