Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Col Cinders

Tyrion - Sansa reunion

Recommended Posts

I can see Tyrion and Sansa as friends, not as a marital couple. I don't know that Sansa ends up with anyone in life or should. Lady of Winterfell carries lots of political implications. She would need a political marriage again to ensure the guy doesn't take Winterfell right from under her, but that their kids inherit. She probably had enough of those arranged marriages. As for love, I think she's become too cynical to believe in that anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/28/2017 at 4:29 AM, Zombies That Were Promised said:

The show dwelled on the Tyrion-Sansa union enough in S3 it actually fills me with dread that is their endgame.  Plus, who else could Sansa even end up with?  Not that she HAS to, but marriage has been kind of a huge part of her arc.  As Lady of Winterfell she has to produce babies to carry on the Stark name since Bran won't assume his responsibilities.  She deserves a happy ending, too, after all the bullshit she's been through.

Thinking of the politics of it, though, if Sansa wants to stay at Winterfell, that would pretty much rule out any union, right? Much has been made in Season 7 of how the Lannisters are unwelcome in the North (...although the revelation that the whole war was started due to Littlefinger's lies may ease those tensions somewhat). Sansa already worries about the Northern lords' fickleness. Why would she remarry someone the North considers an enemy, when she already worries about how her previous marriage to that same person was perceived? Also, Tyrion probably has little to no desire to remain at Winterfell if Casterly Rock is an option, and why would he? 

There's also the issue--not just for Tyrion but for any possible romantic interest--is that Sansa is a traumatized rape survivor. Her S7 costuming, according to Michele Clapton, is designed so that she is physically inaccessible (the wide, tight belt, sidelaced dresses, etc.). She has no intention of being touched by anyone anytime soon, maybe even ever. It's very unlikely that Sansa is going to open up that way to anyone over the course of six measly episodes. She could get married several years down the road, past the end of the series, but she's not going to be interested in romance anytime soon with anyone.

Also in a more general sense (not specific to Tyrion), Sansa has made it clear that her preference is not to be controlled by or beholden to anyone, which is understandable given her previous experiences as a pawn and a prisoner. She hates having to kowtow to Jon as KITN, and she much prefers to run things by herself without interference from others. Marrying would mean giving up some of that control, especially in the very patriarchal Westeros. I doubt Sansa would have any interest in doing anything that would mean giving up that control, so the likelihood of her being interested in marriage is low. Why remarry when she can rule Winterfell by herself? 

 

On 8/28/2017 at 4:32 AM, Pandean said:

I think she always recognized Tyrion was kind to her despite the situation.

Sure, but that never made a difference before in whether or not she wanted to be married to him.

To be fair, the show has made it very clear that the TV versions of Sansa and Tyrion appreciate and care about each other: Tyrion almost immediately asks after Sansa when he meets Jon, Sansa has praised Tyrion's kindness to her a few times, etc. That needn't translate into anything romantic, though; they can form a friendship without dragging marriage into it, and indeed from what we've seen of Sansa, she'd likely be much happier with a friendship free of any expectations or sexual and political baggage associated with marriage. 

 

On 8/28/2017 at 6:49 AM, The Bard of Banefort said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the show had Tyrion and Sansa get back together; in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up as king and queen in the end. However, this all depends on how closely they plan on following George's outline, since I don't see a reconciliation between the two happening in the books. 

The show has made much of Sansa's supposed political acumen. That could just be to set her up as a competent endgame Lady of Winterfell, though.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Starks killed LF.  They should have no good will towards the Lannisters.  It's about survival, them or us.  Tyrion will slip up on something.  He is already losing Dany's ear.

i don't expect anyone to be able to save Jamie or Tyrion.  Unless Jon or Dany dies and Starks Targs bond is broken.  Then maybe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could definitely see some sort of friendship developing, or at least some acknowledgement of each other as survivors. I sincerely hope, though, they won't end up married, books and/or show. It would only validate the incredibly hurtful claim that Sansa was a shallow girl who just needed to grow up, see past Tyrion's outside appearance to see him for who he really is and be grateful that he was always so kind to her. 

And that is something I REALLY hope both book and show will avoid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here we go again~

I'm interested in Sansa-Tyrion dynamic, but after seeing Brienne-Hound, Tyrion-Jaime, Gendry-Beric and so on reunions, I don't have high hopes.

Also, can we stop acting like the only reason why Sansa wouldn't want to let Tyrion in her pants could be her 'lack of maturity'?

18 minutes ago, Lady Sansa Stark said:

I could definitely see some sort of friendship developing, or at least some acknowledgement of each other as survivors. I sincerely hope, though, they won't end up married, books and/or show. It would only validate the incredibly hurtful claim that Sansa was a shallow girl who just needed to grow up, see past Tyrion's outside appearance to see him for who he really is and be grateful that he was always so kind to her. 

And that is something I REALLY hope both book and show will avoid.

This.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They won't end up with anyone. Queen Cersei isn't married. Queen Dany is not Married. King Jon is not married. See a trend? Lyanna Mormont is not married. Theon...Euron...Yara...not married. Robyn either.  No one is. I'm sure things will change in Westeros regarding these things after whoever survives the real war gets things back in order. It won't be Cersei either. 

The more interesting aspect of the question is about ALL of the reunions about to happen if they all arrive in Winterfell before the NK Army. 

Jaime and Bran. Whoa. Jon and Arya. Tyrion and Sansa. The Hound and Sansa. The Hound and Arya. Jon and Sam. Jon and Bran. Hopefully ghost shows up. 

Jaime...not sure if or how they play that reunion out. The rest are rely on them getting to WF before the NK.

 

Things look to be coming to a head in Winterfell. Everyone except Cersei, Theon, Euron, Yara are headed there. Everyone. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Newstar said:

 

Sure, but that never made a difference before in whether or not she wanted to be married to him.

To be fair, the show has made it very clear that the TV versions of Sansa and Tyrion appreciate and care about each other: Tyrion almost immediately asks after Sansa when he meets Jon, Sansa has praised Tyrion's kindness to her a few times, etc. That needn't translate into anything romantic, though; they can form a friendship without dragging marriage into it, and indeed from what we've seen of Sansa, she'd likely be much happier with a friendship free of any expectations or sexual and political baggage associated with marriage. 

Yeah, that's what I was going for. I don't see them going into a relationship/marriage or anything. But I can see them becoming friends. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would hope that Sansa remains the lady of winterfell. If she has to marry again, I hope it is some northman. I don't see Tyrion marrying her again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 8/28/2017 at 3:58 AM, The Prince who was not pro said:

No, until I see the eighth season I will continue to believe that sansa will end up with Sandor.

I have a brand new theory, and even though it was born from the very slender support of a brief, friendly conversation between Sandor and Brienne in 7-10, I think it's fairly solid.

They "met cute." GRRM has a show biz background, and in the movies they make a big deal out of having couples meet in a memorable way. Well . . . not only did S&B meet in a memorable way, it was in a way that says just about all you need to know about EITHER of their personalities.

Second, they have a tremendous amount in common. Physically, they're two of the finest swords[persons] in the realm, and they will make humongous babies. Psychologically, they both have a powerful sense of duty, they both tend to hang out on the side and not say much, they're both pretty gruff when they do speak, they have shared memories of being disliked for their looks, and they're both on the same political team now and will be pretty sure to be fighting alongside each other to give love a chance to blossom.

Don't know how this never occurred to me before, but I think it makes a LOT of sense. In fact, I'd say without a 2nd thought there's a better chance she ends up with the Hound than with Jaime. After all, do you really think Jaime is going to survive Season 8? I've got a bridge to sell you if you do.

Having said all that, I wouldn't rule out San-San.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/28/2017 at 0:06 PM, Azmodael said:

Technically, Bran is still the head of House Stark even if he doesn't acknowledge it. If he self stop pitying and gets a wife and a baby he can still be the Three-eyed-freak and his son can be Lord Stark.

We'll have to wait and see what happens in Season 8 with the Wall. It will not magically disappear because it has a hole in it and neither will the world suddenly warm up and melt it down. If the Night King is permanently slain (unlikely) the Watch might dissolve, but otherwise their watch continues.

I also think his status could change and be the great Lord he used to be as a kid....hopefully with Meera Reed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/28/2017 at 5:58 AM, JonSansaBranArya said:

Nobody wants to mention the obvious but it COULD be Jon. 

Are you assuming Jon's Targaryen identity becomes public knowledge, Dany takes the throne, and she confirms Sansa as Lady Paramount of the North?

In the short term it looks good. Nobody can challenge Sansa as Lady Paramount with the former King in the North as her husband. But it sets up for some complicated succession in the future. Assuming Dany dies without heirs (what with Sansa taking away the magic Jon-sperm that could have cured his infertility), presumably Sansa and Jon's first son is heir presumptive to the IT and will take on the Targaryen name, while their second son inherits the North as a Stark. I suppose it makes Sansa a sort of Sophia of Hanover figure—no matter how things turn out, it's all her family, so her family is guaranteed to win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, lots of interesting points to comment on.

This is certainly one of the reunions I am looking forward to.  I was hoping it would happen this season but thinking about it I think the fact that he is heading for WF and this has been left for the end makes me more inclined to think that they have saved this for the last season for a reason.

Yes, it is true that the show has assumed the marriage annulled without following any set procedure but both have made references to it, so it is far from being forgotten.

I think the moment they meet again is likely to be awkward though.  They may even actively avoid one another but they won't be able to do so for long.  I think they will both say something on the lines of "I'm glad to hear you are alive and well," or something like that.

Yes, in the show Sansa showed kindness to him over the cupbearer scene etc.  Also in that scene walking through the gardens they were definitely warming up to one another.  I don't think that Sansa was simply shallow in rejecting him.  She did not completely trust him and he was a Lannister prisoner at the time.  If she decides to give this relationship a go it will be her choice this time and well, if he gets Casterly Rock, all the better.  That would prove to her that he is not just simply after WF.  In the books he clearly stated that yes, he wanted WF but he wanted her as well and not just sexually but to make her smile etc although he also admitted that he fancied her.  The circumstances are different now, both parties are more powerful but also more equal.

I can understand that she likes to do her own thing and that some of Jon's decisions annoyed her etc but this is always going to happen unless one is to rule (kingdom or castle or whatever) without taking into account advice from anyone.  Both her and Tyrion are politicians rather than say warriors both are skilled at persuading others without the use of force.  I imagine they would try and influence each other rather than imposed their sheer will on the other.

I think there are also merits to the fact that a Lannister/Stark marriage would send the right peace message, although granted yes they would become very powerful together and I can see many Lords being pretty unhappy with this.  Still, the Northern Lords have proved tricky so far but now that the dead are coming I think they are going to have to eat humble pie and pay homage to whoever saves their butts.

Whether she ends up Lady of WF or not and despite the horrible experiences she has been through I cannot see her unmarried with no chances of producing heirs.  She may marry someone else but my vote goes for her marrying.  Despite her coming to her own she does have a duty, if not to a husband, to her legacy and she is the dutiful type.  If she does not have heirs then who will eventually rule WF?  

Admittedly there are a lot of variables still up in the air but still.  At one point I was of the mind that Ned assumed that Bran couldn't have children but couldn't be sure about it and I have always liked Meera for him.  The show may be trolling us by sending Meera away in such a cold way or they may not.  Bran is certainly not the same person he was when he was left to act as Lord, he seems to have lost a lot of his humanity.  It could be that this is a temporary state of mind (hope so) but I wouldn't start counting my chickens.  Okay, this leaves Arya.  Arya will probably marry (my vote goes to Gendry) but she is not first online for WF plus I think she is ill suited as a castle ruler.  She is brave and courageous etc but I think she would be bored to death listening to petitioners for instance, also despite the sisters working together to bring down LF she still seems to be a bit of a loose canon.  On the plus side if she were to end up with WF at least the Northern Lords would have to think twice before rebelling lol.  So either Bran or Arya produced the heir of WF or Sansa will have to.

Okay, yes if Tyrion ends up with Casterly then still no heir for WF.  I think the system will change somehow when all is done and dusted although not in huge ways but some customs may change to cater for new needs. I don't think is inconceivable that if a couple ends up with two important regions they could not pass the title of the husband's one to the first born and the other to the second.  Yes, this concentrates the power with one family  It was pointed out that although this was typical in medieval Europe not so in Westeros.  Of the top of my head Lysa wanted to marry Sansa to Robin.  At the time (if I recall correctly) Bran and Rickon were presumed dead and Robb was also dead so this would have been the same sort of situation with the heirs of two important families.  This is slightly off topic but I am inclined to think that even a lot of power is concentrated in one monarch or couple or whatever the Council will be much stronger and there would me more mechanisms to make these super powerful people accountable.

As for the succession with Casterly Rock, well as it stands Cersei and Jaime have a child on the way.  However, the fact that Jaime has broken from her in the books makes it unlikely to happen there and I feel that the succession of the Westerlands is too important to end differently in the show.  I am inclined to think that she may not carry the baby to term or something.  Even if she does, this child is openly the product of out of wedlock incest so would he or she be able to inherit???  Now, in the show Jaime is not longer in the King/Queen's Guard as he was dismissed.  Say if he were to marry Brienne or something and have a child I reckon the child would be heir and not Tyrion, still too many ifs here... Still, Dany & Co seem to have taken the castle after the original disaster (unless it is still under siege despite the bigger threat of the WWs)... in that case I guess Dany, if she gets the crown, will be able to give it to whomsoever she wishes and Tyrion seems a likely candidate.  I know there has been some tension between them but I think this is a red herring just like the Arya/Sansa dynamics and I am not at all convinced that he will betray her unless there is a very good reason for it.  I am also not sold on her killing Jaime.  I am sure he will die but heroically in the battle.  Dany just killing him would be anti-climatic in my view but hey anything is possible.

Jon and Sansa?  My view is no.  It seems pretty clear that this late in the game the show has established him and Dany as endgame.  One of both may die though but no time for her to say die and him recover enough to set up with someone he grew up as a sibling with kind of out of the blue...

Something else that made me think last season was that Tyrion was hell bent on Dany being available for a political marriage.  Okay, he could be a total hypocrite but if he considers political alliances so important he would make sense if he followed his own counsel.

With regard to the other part of the OP, yes I am also really looking forward to Sandor's reunion with Arya, Sansa and Brienne.  I am not 100% convinced that he will survive the series but I think making peace with Arya and Brienne is in order and something likely to happen.

I know San/San is a very popular pairing (unlike Tyrion/Sansa) but for one thing she is very ambitious and he is not high up enough in the nobility plus I really don't think they are that compatible TBH.  She likes the game and he doesn't.  Okay, opposites can attract but I see more attraction than real compatibility there...

Okay, I guess we will find out eventually although not for quite a while yet :(

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/28/2017 at 11:16 AM, hatcheeks said:

Is it possible Sansa could end up with Gendry?

No. Next question.

...In all seriousness, what's with this reflexive pairing of Sansa with dudes she has absolutely no relationship with for no other reason than they're young and attractive? It's bad enough with Jon/Sansa shippers, but at least they've met and have some sort of pre-existing relationship to speak of. I get that canon has paired Sansa with not one, not two, but three creepy older guys (two of whom are unattractive to put it mildly), but there's fanfic to fix that.

It's also been all but spelled out in the books that Gendry is going to end up with Willow Heddle, a lower-class version of Arya (brown hair, skinny, natural leader), and given the chip on his shoulder about his low birth, that's probably for the best. 

 

10 hours ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

Don't know how this never occurred to me before, but I think it makes a LOT of sense. In fact, I'd say without a 2nd thought there's a better chance she ends up with the Hound than with Jaime. After all, do you really think Jaime is going to survive Season 8? I've got a bridge to sell you if you do.

Who's to say Brienne ends up with anyone? Assuming she survives, she seems likely to get absorbed into the Kingsguard/Queensguard. Not to mention that she'll likely be devastated by Jaime's inevitable death.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Newstar said:

I get that canon has paired Sansa with not one, not two, but three creepy older guys (two of whom are unattractive to put it mildly),

I'm trying to figure out who you mean here.

I assume Tyrion, Ramsay, and Littlefinger? But then which two of those count as "unattractive to put it mildly"?   Show!Tyrion isn't nearly as bad as Book!Tyrion. Aiden Gillan ain't that bad. Ramsay's actor is downright hot.

Joffrey was older but I wouldn't think he counts as an "older guy".

Dontos used to make her kiss him in the books (which isn't dissimilar to Little Fingers game). And then there was that singer that tried to rape her in the books.

Also she was briefly engaged to SweetRobin (but he's younger). Then there's Harrold Hardyng who ain't a peach but at least he's not Ramsay.

Sansa hasn't had romantic pairings so much as a series of awful men assaulting her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, greensleeves said:

I'm trying to figure out who you mean here.

I assume Tyrion, Ramsay, and Littlefinger? But then which two of those count as "unattractive to put it mildly"?   Show!Tyrion isn't nearly as bad as Book!Tyrion. Aiden Gillan ain't that bad. Ramsay's actor is downright hot.

Joffrey was older but I wouldn't think he counts as an "older guy".

Dontos used to make her kiss him in the books (which isn't dissimilar to Little Fingers game). And then there was that singer that tried to rape her in the books.

Also she was briefly engaged to SweetRobin (but he's younger). Then there's Harrold Hardyng who ain't a peach but at least he's not Ramsay.

Sansa hasn't had romantic pairings so much as a series of awful men assaulting her.

The three main men in Sansa's life in the books, are the Hound, Tyrion, and Littlefinger. They aren't romantic pairings, except SanSan if you ship it I guess, but they're the guys she has dealings with; they're her most significant male relationships in the books.

Not surprisingly, a lot of fans find these characters unappealing and these canon interactions abusive or at the very least gross, so they ship Sansa with age-appropriate, good-hearted, good-looking guys she has very little or no relationship with: Jon, Gendry, Willas Tyrell, etc. I can't blame them for writing fanfic substituting Jon or Gendry for the Hound or Littlefinger--because who wants to read about Sansa banging some creepy, sketchy dude 15 years her senior?--but those pairings have no place in actual canon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Newstar said:

...

Ah, I see! I'd put Joffrey in there too. (Though it seems like ages ago now.)

Sandor in the books is significantly younger; I think they killed any hope for a show!romance between them when they cast such an old actor. I think that's also why they ended up giving so many of Sandor's lines to Littlefinger.  The Sansan book relationship has romantic undertones, but I kinda doubt it will go anywhere significant even in the books. 

I wasn't aware people shipped her with Gendry or Willas. Book!Tyrion is really awful when it comes to women; I would be really upset if he ends up with Sansa. He's not that bad in the show, but the show is supposed to end up somewhat like the books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, greensleeves said:

Ah, I see! I'd put Joffrey in there too. (Though it seems like ages ago now.)

Sandor in the books is significantly younger; I think they killed any hope for a show!romance between them when they cast such an old actor. I think that's also why they ended up giving so many of Sandor's lines to Littlefinger.  The Sansan book relationship has romantic undertones, but I kinda doubt it will go anywhere significant even in the books. 

Sandor and Tyrion are close to the same age in the books--AWOIAF estimates Sandor's a little over 30 and Tyrion's a little under 30--but they're still much older than Sansa. Both Rory McCann and Peter Dinklage are currently 48, but TV Tyrion is significantly younger than the actor playing him (he was 36 in Season 4); they both would have been around 39 when they were first cast.

I'm not convinced that the fact that a somewhat goofy-looking 40 year old was cast instead of a 20something hottie means in of itself that endgame SanSan is off the menu. It's two straight guys who ultimately decided whether or not to cast him, after all. Based on the way the pairing has been written in the show (or not written, I guess you could say), I don't think SanSan is likely, but the fact that they cast the "Yarp" dude from Hot Fuzz instead of, say, getting a Sam Heughan type is not determinative one way or another as far as I'm concerned.

 

Quote

I wasn't aware people shipped her with Gendry or Willas.

Oh yes. Jon/Sansa is probably the worst offender in the "no canon book interactions but who cares?" category, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×