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Col Cinders

Tyrion - Sansa reunion

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41 minutes ago, greensleeves said:

Sandor in the books is significantly younger

All three of them are (Tyrion in his early twenties, Sandor in his late twenties, LF around thirty), but this doesn't really help since Sansa is a child in the books and Martin has given up on a time skip.

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In my opinion, Tyrion and Sansa will be king and queen of Westeros by the end of the series (the book series, at least).

Their entire story is about learning how to rule. Not about conquering Westeros, not about saving the world, just playing the game of thrones the right way. At the moment Tyrion's got quite a claim to the thrones in the show through Cersei. I still hope they play this the smart way around and Tyrion will have his own motives next season (and not the showrunners' ones).

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2 hours ago, Newstar said:

Sandor and Tyrion are close to the same age in the books--AWOIAF estimates Sandor's a little over 30 and Tyrion's a little under 30--but they're still much older than Sansa. Both Rory McCann and Peter Dinklage are currently 48, but TV Tyrion is significantly younger than the actor playing him (he was 36 in Season 4); they both would have been around 39 when they were first cast.

 

2 hours ago, Tianzi said:

All three of them are (Tyrion in his early twenties, Sandor in his late twenties, LF around thirty), but this doesn't really help since Sansa is a child in the books and Martin has given up on a time skip.

I forgot that Tyrion was so young. And to think of Littlefinger as being not much older... weird.

 

2 hours ago, Newstar said:

I'm not convinced that the fact that a somewhat goofy-looking 40 year old was cast instead of a 20something hottie means in of itself that endgame SanSan is off the menu. It's two straight guys who ultimately decided whether or not to cast him, after all. Based on the way the pairing has been written in the show (or not written, I guess you could say), I don't think SanSan is likely, but the fact that they cast the "Yarp" dude from Hot Fuzz instead of, say, getting a Sam Heughan type is not determinative one way or another as far as I'm concerned.

Lol. True. They really need more (any?) women on staff.

 

2 hours ago, Newstar said:

 

Oh yes. Jon/Sansa is probably the worst offender in the "no canon book interactions but who cares?" category, though.

At least Jon and Sansa have had interactions on the show? There was that almost marriage to Willas and that one line from Jaime about Gendry (though imo that was really about Arya). :dunno:

I think (and hope) Sansa will end up alive and in charge of Winterfell in the end. Theoretically, she'll be eventually obliged to produce heirs but I don't think we'll necessarily get to see that before the end of the show/books. Whatever choice she makes (and I do hope it is her choice) I think she'll remain at Winterfell.

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15 hours ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

 

I have a brand new theory, and even though it was born from the very slender support of a brief, friendly conversation between Sandor and Brienne in 7-10, I think it's fairly solid.

They "met cute." GRRM has a show biz background, and in the movies they make a big deal out of having couples meet in a memorable way. Well . . . not only did S&B meet in a memorable way, it was in a way that says just about all you need to know about EITHER of their personalities.

Second, they have a tremendous amount in common. Physically, they're two of the finest swords[persons] in the realm, and they will make humongous babies. Psychologically, they both have a powerful sense of duty, they both tend to hang out on the side and not say much, they're both pretty gruff when they do speak, they have shared memories of being disliked for their looks, and they're both on the same political team now and will be pretty sure to be fighting alongside each other to give love a chance to blossom.

Don't know how this never occurred to me before, but I think it makes a LOT of sense. In fact, I'd say without a 2nd thought there's a better chance she ends up with the Hound than with Jaime. After all, do you really think Jaime is going to survive Season 8? I've got a bridge to sell you if you do.

Having said all that, I wouldn't rule out San-San.

Hound-Brienne have no story in common, except the love to protect Arya, it won't happen.

Jaime might die, but Brienne would not marry the first man she mets after that.

SanSan could happen, I've seen hints of a reunion this season (LF mentioning him and she reacting with the eyes), so they might go with the developing romance of the books. If it happens, it will be Sansa that makes the first step and it won't be rushed; it's Sansa who will decide who she wants to love (and Sandor has a thing for gingers, that's why we had that dialogue with Tormund). The friendship is already built-up and strong.

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On 28/8/2017 at 5:16 PM, hatcheeks said:

Is it possible Sansa could end up with Gendry?

Nope, it would be a miserable political marriage. Sansa won't marry again for duty. She will either end up alone or marrying for love. Gendry will either end up alone or with Arya (as a lover or marrying her, or as a romantic tragedy). It's with her sister that he has a story with. And in the show Arya had a crush on him.

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31 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Hound-Brienne have no story in common, except the love to protect Arya, it won't happen.

Jaime might die, but Brienne would not marry the first man she mets after that.

SanSan could happen, I've seen hints of a reunion this season (LF mentioning him and she reacting with the eyes), so they might go with the developing romance of the books. If it happens, it will be Sansa that makes the first step and it won't be rushed; it's Sansa who will decide who she wants to love (and Sandor has a thing for gingers, that's why we had that dialogue with Tormund). The friendship is already built-up and strong.

No, Brienne will not be looking to marry the first man she meets, but between now and the end--at least on the show--there is every indication that she and Sandor will be fighting alongside each other, and I dare say they will make a great combo. Sharing a stressful experience is a primo way to forge a strong emotional bond.

I wouldn't bet on it happening with even odds, but I think it's a fairly strong possibility. 

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1 hour ago, greensleeves said:

I forgot that Tyrion was so young. And to think of Littlefinger as being not much older... weird.

It's because GRRM writes Tyrion in the voice of a lecherous, grumpy old man. He "sounds" 20+ years older than he actually is.

 

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At least Jon and Sansa have had interactions on the show?

True, and to be fair, Jon and Sansa's S6 interactions have fueled a lot of the fanfiction. The ship existed well before S6, though. Sansa deserves a young, hot Targ prince who knows how to treat a lady, doncha know, canon be damned. *eyeroll*

 

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I think (and hope) Sansa will end up alive and in charge of Winterfell in the end. Theoretically, she'll be eventually obliged to produce heirs but I don't think we'll necessarily get to see that before the end of the show/books.

There's really no need to marry Sansa off before the end of the show. I think things are tending towards Sansa as the single endgame Lady of Winterfell. Maybe she marries some anonymous Northern lord at some point past the end of the show, maybe she doesn't. Given what happened with Ramsay, and what the show has identified as TV Sansa's need for independence and control, I think it's very unlikely that she's going to be interested in romance in Season 8, let alone marriage. 

Also, the show is pretty full up with established romances anyway: star-crossed and passionate (Jon/Dany), tender and sweet (Grey Worm/Missandei), comfortable and all-but-married (Sam/Gilly), etc. It's unlikely we'll see a bunch of previously unattached characters suddenly falling in love or into bed, with the possible exception of Jaime/Brienne, much less a traumatized rape survivor like Sansa who's made it very clear she has no interest in being touched by anyone. There's a war to fight, etc. etc.

 

55 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Jaime might die

LOL, "might."

 

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SanSan could happen,

Highly unlikely. 

 

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Gendry will either end up alone or with Arya (as a lover or marrying her, or as a romantic tragedy)

Gendry and Arya have separate futures, and GRRM has said as much.

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9 minutes ago, Newstar said:

True, and to be fair, Jon and Sansa's S6 interactions have fueled a lot of the fanfiction. The ship existed well before S6, though. Sansa deserves a young, hot Targ prince who knows how to treat a lady, doncha know, canon be damned. *eyeroll*

Gendry and Arya have separate futures, and GRRM has said as much.

Well, to be fair, much of the shipping thinks that way, canon be damned. Because while there's a good chunk of Jon/Sansa people who think they are somehow endgame, I daresay many of them just ship them for many other and various reasons. I don't really see a problem with it. 

Also. Gendry and Arya. I'd always thought they'd end up together somehow. Where did GRRM say that?

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15 minutes ago, Lady Sansa Stark said:

Well, to be fair, much of the shipping thinks that way, canon be damned. Because while there's a good chunk of Jon/Sansa people who think they are somehow endgame, I daresay many of them just ship them for many other and various reasons. I don't really see a problem with it. 

"I think X and Y would be cute together, even though I know it's a crackship, so I'm going to write fanfic based on the pairing"-type shipping is fine. Convincing yourself that your ship is 100% endgame based on things like TV camera angles in episodes and getting into fights online with anyone who points out that your ship has little or no basis in book canon or is doomed based on known TV spoilers is...not fine.

 

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Also. Gendry and Arya. I'd always thought they'd end up together somehow. Where did GRRM say that?

Long story short: a Gendry/Arya shipper back in 2012 had a friend ask GRRM about the shipper's fave pairing's prospects at a book signing or a reading or something to that effect, which is when GRRM allegedly informed the friend that Gendry and Arya have separate futures (but as to whether they meet again, the friend would have to keep reading). Friend informed shipper of what GRRM had said, and the heartbroken shipper included this anecdote as an endnote to one of his/her Gendry/Arya fanfics.

AFFC suggested that Gendry would end up with Willow Heddle, and in any event Arya was never that attached to Gendry in the books, so it's not that surprising IMO. 

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6 minutes ago, Newstar said:

"I think X and Y would be cute together, even though I know it's a crackship, so I'm going to write fanfic based on the pairing"-type shipping is fine. Convincing yourself that your ship is 100% endgame based on things like TV camera angles in episodes and getting into fights online with anyone who points out that your ship has little or no basis in book canon or is doomed based on known TV spoilers is...not fine.

 

Long story short: a Gendry/Arya shipper back in 2012 had a friend ask GRRM about the shipper's fave pairing's prospects at a book signing or a reading or something to that effect, which is when GRRM allegedly informed the friend that Gendry and Arya have separate futures (but as to whether they meet again, the friend would have to keep reading). Friend informed shipper of what GRRM had said, and the heartbroken shipper included this anecdote as an endnote to one of his/her Gendry/Arya fanfics.

AFFC suggested that Gendry would end up with Willow Heddle, and in any event Arya was never that attached to Gendry in the books, so it's not that surprising IMO. 

I believe what you say about GRRM and the fan.

There are two things to consider further.  1 GRRM may write something different from what he predicted he would write. 2 D&D are going to finish their version and as you know the final season will not be based upon GRRM source material.

To be fair we have to specify predictions that are showverse and bookverse.

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32 minutes ago, Newstar said:

much less a traumatized rape survivor like Sansa who's made it very clear she has no interest in being touched by anyone. There's a war to fight, etc. etc.

Where has Sansa made it clear that she doesn't want to be touched by anyone? I know you don't mean it this way, but I think it's important to remember that having been raped doesn't preclude a person from being in relationships and liking sex.

I tend to think you're right and that she'll end the series single, but more because there will be a war on and there's no time for that. Whether she's still interested in taking a lover or husband in the future :dunno:

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9 minutes ago, greensleeves said:

Where has Sansa made it clear that she doesn't want to be touched by anyone?

Michele Clapton has said that Sansa's S7 costuming is designed to show Sansa closing herself off from the possibility of physical touch: tightly-laced dresses (laced on the side), corset-like belts, etc. Not unexpected behaviour for a rape survivor.

 

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I tend to think you're right and that she'll end the series single, but more because there will be a war on and there's no time for that. Whether she's still interested in taking a lover or husband in the future

From a character perspective, if Sansa felt compelled to marry out of a sense of duty, she would probably do what Olenna did and marry someone weak and stupid she could steamroll and manipulate. I guess that's where those who think she'll wind up marrying Sweetrobin are coming from; that would be the ultimate cynical choice of husband.

 

12 minutes ago, Col Cinders said:

I believe what you say about GRRM and the fan.

There are two things to consider further.  1 GRRM may write something different from what he predicted he would write. 2 D&D are going to finish their version and as you know the final season will not be based upon GRRM source material.

To be fair we have to specify predictions that are showverse and bookverse.

At the risk of getting off-topic, D&D have made it clear that they're going towards GRRM's endgame. No, it's not going to be 100% the same, nor could it be given that ASOIAF has thousands of characters and multiple large plots that have been eliminated from the show, but all indications are that it will be the same for the major characters. So if Sansa ends up alone in the show, she will in the books. 

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6 hours ago, greensleeves said:

Sandor in the books is significantly younger; I think they killed any hope for a show!romance between them when they cast such an old actor. I think that's also why they ended up giving so many of Sandor's lines to Littlefinger.  The Sansan book relationship has romantic undertones, but I kinda doubt it will go anywhere significant even in the books. 

You can't find Rory Mccann's audition on YT where he tells The Hound's story. It's brilliant! I still don't get why for god's sake they didn't include it in the show (or rather gave his words to LF).

As for age difference, it's more about perception. The Hound is in his late 20s in the books. If you consider that Sansa and Jayne Poole thought that 22 y.o. Beric Dondarrion was awfully old, it makes The Hound almost ancient in their eyes. So for the audience the age difference between show!Sansa and show!Hound is fast the same as between book!Sansa and book!Hound (from Sansa's POV).

Re OP. I don't think taht Sansa and Tyrion would end up together. It isn't about appreciation, there was no mutual attraction in the first place.

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On 8/28/2017 at 7:04 AM, Col Cinders said:

In two years we will see Tyrion reunite with his putative wife, Sansa.

Off topic .

is it confirmed that the show will return in 2 years ?

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2 hours ago, Newstar said:

"I think X and Y would be cute together, even though I know it's a crackship, so I'm going to write fanfic based on the pairing"-type shipping is fine. Convincing yourself that your ship is 100% endgame based on things like TV camera angles in episodes and getting into fights online with anyone who points out that your ship has little or no basis in book canon or is doomed based on known TV spoilers is...not fine.

 

Long story short: a Gendry/Arya shipper back in 2012 had a friend ask GRRM about the shipper's fave pairing's prospects at a book signing or a reading or something to that effect, which is when GRRM allegedly informed the friend that Gendry and Arya have separate futures (but as to whether they meet again, the friend would have to keep reading). Friend informed shipper of what GRRM had said, and the heartbroken shipper included this anecdote as an endnote to one of his/her Gendry/Arya fanfics.

AFFC suggested that Gendry would end up with Willow Heddle, and in any event Arya was never that attached to Gendry in the books, so it's not that surprising IMO. 

Personally, I feel that provided posters stay polite to other members there is nothing wrong with believing that something will come to pass either in books or show.  None of us really know the end game regarding parings or who will for definite rule which region/castle etc, or even who will leave or die.  It is after all speculation.  Granted some theories sound to the majority more implausible that others, especially now that we are so far towards the ending in the show.  Still if everything could be 100% predictable and made lots of theories impossible there would be no room whatsoever for unexpected twists basically taking away all room for suspense.

I have to agree that I don't endorse every theory out there and I have said on numerous occasions that something, in my humble opinion, is not going to happen, but I would not go as far as saying that saying something that totally contradicts my predictions is "not fine."

I get what you are coming from though, I think... in terms that if there is something I root for but it is very unlikely to happen it's best left for fanfiction and I could satisfy my cravings for that sort of ending by writing one.  Still, how many people (before the spoilers were doing the rounds) say predicted the Wight Dragon??? yet it did happen in the show.  So I guess no one should be put down by making a prediction, although it is likely that I misconstrued your intentions when you said "not fine."  If so, my apologies.

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2 hours ago, Newstar said:

Michele Clapton has said that Sansa's S7 costuming is designed to show Sansa closing herself off from the possibility of physical touch: tightly-laced dresses (laced on the side), corset-like belts, etc. Not unexpected behaviour for a rape survivor.

 

From a character perspective, if Sansa felt compelled to marry out of a sense of duty, she would probably do what Olenna did and marry someone weak and stupid she could steamroll and manipulate. I guess that's where those who think she'll wind up marrying Sweetrobin are coming from; that would be the ultimate cynical choice of husband.

 

At the risk of getting off-topic, D&D have made it clear that they're going towards GRRM's endgame. No, it's not going to be 100% the same, nor could it be given that ASOIAF has thousands of characters and multiple large plots that have been eliminated from the show, but all indications are that it will be the same for the major characters. So if Sansa ends up alone in the show, she will in the books. 

Sure re costumes for this season.  I doubt Michele Clapton knows what is going to happen in season 8.   I don't believe even the actors know yet so this could change.  Okay, it would seem sudden but I really don't believe she will end up single forever, especially because otherwise it will be left to Bran (who is currently pretty spaced out) and Arya (who is even more independent and apparently George said she doesn't end up with Gendry - which I thought it was were this was going) to produce an heir for WF.

It could well be that she marries someone she can manipulate instead of someone more savvy like Tyrion but I personally think she would be bored to tears with someone she cannot brainstorm with.  Okay, there are only 6 episodes left but I would really like it if she had some further character development in terms of being more accepting of other people's views, trusting other people's views (unlike what Jon and her were like with each other when the show was trying to create a little tension).  She has come a long way from being the naive girl with the fairy tales in mind but I think now she needs to be more open minded to other people's ideas and ruling alone is hard work and dangerous in that anyone can become too engrossed in their own agendas and views and fail to see the greater picture.

Personally I think she is being groomed (by the author and show writers) to be part of a powerful couple not just in terms of land but intellect and I think a game player would suit her best but hey, this is just my opinion.

I agree on the last paragraph though.  I think it has been strongly suggested that the fate of the main characters will be pretty much the same.  They may get there in different ways, say maybe LF dies slightly differently or something.  It is even possible that someone's pairing doesn't get the time to be developed with 6 episodes left and that it is in the books but I think as the main 6 or so characters are concerned you are likely to be right.

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1 hour ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

You can't find Rory Mccann's audition on YT where he tells The Hound's story. It's brilliant! I still don't get why for god's sake they didn't include it in the show (or rather gave his words to LF).

As for age difference, it's more about perception. The Hound is in his late 20s in the books. If you consider that Sansa and Jayne Poole thought that 22 y.o. Beric Dondarrion was awfully old, it makes The Hound almost ancient in their eyes. So for the audience the age difference between show!Sansa and show!Hound is fast the same as between book!Sansa and book!Hound (from Sansa's POV).

Re OP. I don't think taht Sansa and Tyrion would end up together. It isn't about appreciation, there was no mutual attraction in the first place.

Oh, would love to see that, do you have a link? (Rory's audition)

Well, when you are quite young everyone, just about, seems ancient to you lol  I do remember ;)  However, I think sometimes people make too much out of age difference.  Also I find in real life as you get older the same age difference is less noticeable mentally.  For instance the gap between a 15 year old and a 25 year old (although largely depending on the life experiences of the individuals concerned seems huge) now between a 35 and a 45 year old not so much.  Still, I feel that, especially when the man is the older one, there is a tendency in our times to think of him as creepy, with almost abuser connotations.  Now, even until relatively recently it was more common for the man to be older.  I guess because financial stability often came from the guy and younger brides come have more kids (thinking more of a say farming community or something).  It seems that the same age pairings became a lot more popular when girls got educated and went to college and University and what not and met their partners there.   This being said, older women even today are labelled nasty things which also make them look like predators such as "cougar" etc which I think it is equally unfair.

 I think that in the society they seem to have in universe, barring Maester Aemon of Pycelle or the like most of the characters would have been considered possible suitors in terms of age, including Baelish (not that I ever shipped them lol) although he must be about Cat's age.  In medieval times that was more the rule than the exception.  Also it is a matter of personal preference, some people prefer older, some younger, some don't mind.  Although I don't ship Sandor/Sansa that "unkiss" in the books seems to imply that she is capable of fantasying about him.  In my opinion because he seems dangerous but possibly kind deep down and "good girls" oftentimes like someone a little rough round the edges but age difference didn't seem to be an issue for her.  Also Wyllas Tyrell was older too.  Granted, she never met the guy but was very eager to leave KL, still I maintain my position that an older man per se should not be an issue with her.

As for the attraction, he is clearly attracted to her but was madly in love with the wrong person at the time lol.  Now, I think, we could well be heading for a more Cat/Ned situation.  Cat clearly was attracted to Brandon not Ned and it grew with them over the years.  I think there will be exceptions, but throughout the books and show they keep hammering onto us how love that grows slowly is less tragic and more long lasting [ insert Lyanna/Rhaegar, Robb/Talisha, possibly Tyrion's dismayed looks at Jon/Dany...]  

Going back to Sansa, sure, she was not remotely attracted to Tyrion but at the time she was a Lannister prisoner, on top of that the Red Wedding happened, hey he is a dwarf to boot!  He may get to see him in a different light and in the show at least the guy is quite hot (IMHO) and they have some compatible traits that could be much more long lasting than mutual attraction.  Sure attraction and passionate liaisons are great but unless based in something much more solid underneath they end up being a summer romance or something, although I am perhaps a bit cynical myself.

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1 hour ago, Danny- said:

Off topic .

is it confirmed that the show will return in 2 years ?

That is what I have read and it is because of the need to film remote locations in various seasons. 

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3 hours ago, Newstar said:

Gendry and Arya have separate futures, and GRRM has said as much.

 

3 hours ago, Lady Sansa Stark said:

. Also. Gendry and Arya. I'd always thought they'd end up together somehow. Where did GRRM say that?

 

Yes, but that could be about their current situation in the books, meaning that they'd not meet very soon. He also told the shipper that she should keep reading to know if they'd meet.

Last year at Balticon Martin said that he'd visit them again so they'll meet, and he also said that they were still very young and didn't want to spoil anything.

 

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