Tyrion - Sansa reunion

[Meera of Tarth]

3 hours ago, Hodor's Dragon said:

No, Brienne will not be looking to marry the first man she meets, but between now and the end--at least on the show--there is every indication that she and Sandor will be fighting alongside each other, and I dare say they will make a great combo. Sharing a stressful experience is a primo way to forge a strong emotional bond.

I wouldn't bet on it happening with even odds, but I think it's a fairly strong possibility. 

There's no time to develop a romance from zero between these two, especially considering that it took 6 years to reach the final act of the JBC triangle and Brienne will only have eyes for Jaime.

[Morgana Lannister]

3 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

There's no time to develop a romance from zero between these two, especially considering that it took 6 years to reach the final act of the JBC triangle and Brienne will only have eyes for Jaime.

I agree that the Brienne/Jaime thing has been strongly hinted at and it is my preferred pair for both of them.  Still I could see how starting on a very bad note can be sexy and how they would have a lot of stuff in common had Jaime not gotten there first lol

[Meera of Tarth]

25 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

I agree that the Brienne/Jaime thing has been strongly hinted at and it is my preferred pair for both of them.  Still I could see how starting on a very bad note can be sexy and how they would have a lot of stuff in common had Jaime not gotten there first lol

Yes, the relationship is extremely romantic and sexy. Jaime would be one of my favourite characters if he had not been responsible for the Bran event. Still, I find him one of the most interesting characters of the series and I love the JB relationship.

55 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Sure re costumes for this season.  I doubt Michele Clapton knows what is going to happen in season 8.   I don't believe even the actors know yet so this could change.  Okay, it would seem sudden but I really don't believe she will end up single forever, especially because otherwise it will be left to Bran (who is currently pretty spaced out) and Arya (who is even more independent and apparently George said she doesn't end up with Gendry - which I thought it was were this was going) to produce an heir for WF.

Exactly, costumes changes from season to season. While it might have made sense for the costume designer to make her wear a costume that is indicative of this possible state of mind it has nothing to do with Sansa in s8. Maybe that costume was to show Sansa in a more serious, "Lady in charge" way, with her season arc ending with  LF 's execution.

Martin didn't say such a thing about Gendry, see my post above

9 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Okay, lots of interesting points to comment on.

This is certainly one of the reunions I am looking forward to.  I was hoping it would happen this season but thinking about it I think the fact that he is heading for WF and this has been left for the end makes me more inclined to think that they have saved this for the last season for a reason.

Yes, it is true that the show has assumed the marriage annulled without following any set procedure but both have made references to it, so it is far from being forgotten.

I think the moment they meet again is likely to be awkward though.  They may even actively avoid one another but they won't be able to do so for long.  I think they will both say something on the lines of "I'm glad to hear you are alive and well," or something like that.

Yes, in the show Sansa showed kindness to him over the cupbearer scene etc.  Also in that scene walking through the gardens they were definitely warming up to one another.  I don't think that Sansa was simply shallow in rejecting him.  She did not completely trust him and he was a Lannister prisoner at the time.  If she decides to give this relationship a go it will be her choice this time and well, if he gets Casterly Rock, all the better.  That would prove to her that he is not just simply after WF.  In the books he clearly stated that yes, he wanted WF but he wanted her as well and not just sexually but to make her smile etc although he also admitted that he fancied her.  The circumstances are different now, both parties are more powerful but also more equal.

The first bolded: that's exactly what I predict it will happen in s8. The show has highlighted a more friendly connection between these two than in the books, so I think they'll both say "hello", and probably work together  in order to make Jonerys stay down to Earth since they both have acquired political skills.

I don't think a romance is going to blossom though. Tyrion also said this season that the marriage was not their idea, they were obligued to it.

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Admittedly there are a lot of variables still up in the air but still.  At one point I was of the mind that Ned assumed that Bran couldn't have children but couldn't be sure about it and I have always liked Meera for him.  The show may be trolling us by sending Meera away in such a cold way or they may not.  Bran is certainly not the same person he was when he was left to act as Lord, he seems to have lost a lot of his humanity.  It could be that this is a temporary state of mind (hope so) but I wouldn't start counting my chickens.  Okay, this leaves Arya.  Arya will probably marry (my vote goes to Gendry) but she is not first online for WF plus I think she is ill suited as a castle ruler.  She is brave and courageous etc but I think she would be bored to death listening to petitioners for instance, also despite the sisters working together to bring down LF she still seems to be a bit of a loose canon.  On the plus side if she were to end up with WF at least the Northern Lords would have to think twice before rebelling lol.  So either Bran or Arya produced the heir of WF or Sansa will have to

I have the feeling that indeed, they mght be trolling us. From the one hand, in the preliminary -lekaed-script they said that Meera was out of the series, but I've examined the other preliminary scripts and there are many changes, so I think it's plausible that Meera will return. Whether she will be Bran's endgame, I think it's more unlikely but not impossible, since they might not have known it from Martin before (we have to bear in mind that there lots of characters). Also, when Reading the other preliminary scripts I also noticed that sometimes they were writing in a way as if they really believed that characers who are gonna survive would be dying (they did it with Brienne, especially in episode 6 in the wight hunt-she was supposed to be there- and they wrote some sentences as if "knew" she was dying; and with JOn), so maybe they were trying to emphasize the sad atmosphere of the scene saying Meera was out.

As for Bran, his endgame might be about being "a robot" and that might be the reason why they did it many episodes before the endgame, but I doubt it. I think that Sam will heal him as he did with Jorah and they will become Friends and work together in the strategist department. In a twist, Bran will become Bran again and then he'll do whatever he has to do, be it a good thing or a tragic ending. People would not care about him if he is always a robot and they want to show us drama and schocking moments.

As for Arya, I think we can't discard her as a posible ruler of WF, since she is the only one who has never ruled it from the living Starks.

[Ashes Of Westeros]

33 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Oh, would love to see that, do you have a link? (Rory's audition)

Here you go: 

Rory starts at 6:12

36 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Still, I feel that, especially when the man is the older one, there is a tendency in our times to think of him as creepy, with almost abuser connotations.

I agree. Many readers/viewers don't like the idea of SanSan based on the age difference. But this is not the main obstacle for this potential pairing. 

[Newstar]

 

1 hour ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Sure re costumes for this season.  I doubt Michele Clapton knows what is going to happen in season 8.  

Sure, but Michele Clapton knew in S7 that it was important to convey that Sansa is trussing herself up in tight, confining dresses to ensure that no one can touch her. It's reasonable to assume that someone who's so traumatized that she's trying to cut off the possibility of physical touch is not likely to be receptive to or initiate romantic advances.

 

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It could well be that she marries someone she can manipulate instead of someone more savvy like Tyrion but I personally think she would be bored to tears with someone she cannot brainstorm with.  

It depends. If Sansa, consummate game player that she is, decides that she needs to marry to produce an heir but is also loath to give up any power of her own, the smart thing to do would be to marry someone too stupid and weak to pose any threat to her power and who would allow her to scheme, plot, and run the show in peace. The risk of course in procreating with a stupid and weak man is producing an equally stupid and weak son who would lead the family to ruin, which is in fact what happened with Olenna. I don't know how happy such unions are--Genna Lannister and Emmon Frey seemed pretty miserable--but it depends on how much Sansa values her autonomy.

In the books, she already has Sweetrobin if she decides to make that choice. (TV Robin doesn't seem particularly attached to Sansa one way or another.)

 

53 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Yes, but that could be about their current situation in the books, meaning that they'd not meet very soon.

I don't think so. I believe GRRM shot down the Gendry/Arya pairing. He's been similarly blunt before; in Russia when asked if Jorah would ever get out of the friendzone, GRRM replied "I wouldn't bet on it." He essentially told the shipper's friend "They're not going to wind up together." I guess he took pity on the friend, LOL.

 

27 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Exactly, costumes changes from season to season. While it might have made sense for the costume designer to make her wear a costume that is indicative of this possible state of mind it has nothing to do with Sansa in s8. Maybe that costume was to show Sansa in a more serious, "Lady in charge" way, with her season arc ending with  LF 's execution.

Clapton specifically said that the costuming showed Sansa closing herself off from the possibility of being touched. How can it have "nothing to do with Sansa in S8"? She'll still have been raped many times in S8, and she'll still be affected by it. That's not magically going to go away next season. Sansa's not going to go from dressing in a way that ensures no one can touch her to falling in love or into bed with someone in S8.

 

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Martin didn't say such a thing about Gendry, see my post above

 

He did, in not so many words, if the Gendry/Arya shipper--someone who had every reason to discount or doubt what he said--is to be believed. "Separate futures" is pretty explicit.

 

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As for Arya, I think we can't discard her as a posible ruler of WF, since she is the only one who has never ruled it from the living Starks.

Bryan Cogman said that the Arya/Nymeria scene was foreshadowing for Arya (or words to that effect). Arya realizing that Nymeria was too wild to be shut up at Winterfell seems like foreshadowing Arya's ultimate departure from Winterfell to do her own exploring.

[Meera of Tarth]

46 minutes ago, Newstar said:

 

I don't think so. I believe GRRM shot down the Gendry/Arya pairing. He's been similarly blunt before; in Russia when asked if Jorah would ever get out of the friendzone, GRRM replied "I wouldn't bet on it." He essentially told the shipper's friend "They're not going to wind up together." I guess he took pity on the friend, LOL

He did, in not so many words, if the Gendry/Arya shipper--someone who had every reason to discount or doubt what he said--is to be believed. "Separate futures" is pretty explicit.

 

so that post from 2012 where it says he doesn't know if they meet so the person should keep Reading means the pairing is 100% confirmed not to happen, but the one from 2016 that says that the meeting has actually been confirmed  as well as the fact that "they are still very Young" and "he doesn't want to spoil anything" doesn't count for you.... fine.

[Meera of Tarth]

47 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Bryan Cogman said that the Arya/Nymeria scene was foreshadowing for Arya (or words to that effect). Arya realizing that Nymeria was too wild to be shut up at Winterfell seems like foreshadowing Arya's ultimate departure from Winterfell to do her own exploring.

I agree with that possibility, to me that scene might mean many things:

a)being herself. That means, an unconventional Lady, or possibly departing from Winterfell, exploring new worlds.

b)ultimately leading her pack is more important. That means, being responsible, a leader (that could happen in both scenearios), and the pack thing, maybe finding love, also compatible with both places.

[Meera of Tarth]

56 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Clapton specifically said that the costuming showed Sansa closing herself off from the possibility of being touched. How can it have "nothing to do with Sansa in S8"? She'll still have been raped many times in S8, and she'll still be affected by it. That's not magically going to go away next season. Sansa's not going to go from dressing in a way that ensures no one can touch her to falling in love or into bed with someone in S8.

Characters change from season to season. The only one that has been consistent on that matter (abuse) during years is Theon. The person that sold her to Ramsay is dead and now she can't be manipulated any more, and Ramsay is dead as well. I am not saying people who have been raped or suffered sexual abuse can be recovered very quickly, but it will depend on the case and this is fiction. Actually, Sansa showed a lot of strenght since s6, she even gave the order to kill both Ramsay, the sadistic raper, and LF, her mentor in game of thrones and sex trafficker.

Also, maybe s8 covers a lot of time in case the WWs get lost and/or Dany has a child from Jon. Apart from that, she could also experience love and being loved and don't sleep with someone in case she still had issues with sex, which I don't think it will be the case, but could be.

Moreover, the writers are the showrunners and Martin, not the costume designer. She doesn't know the endgame yet. 

[Morgana Lannister]

1 hour ago, Newstar said:

 

Sure, but Michele Clapton knew in S7 that it was important to convey that Sansa is trussing herself up in tight, confining dresses to ensure that no one can touch her. It's reasonable to assume that someone who's so traumatized that she's trying to cut off the possibility of physical touch is not likely to be receptive to or initiate romantic advances.

 

It depends. If Sansa, consummate game player that she is, decides that she needs to marry to produce an heir but is also loath to give up any power of her own, the smart thing to do would be to marry someone too stupid and weak to pose any threat to her power and who would allow her to scheme, plot, and run the show in peace. The risk of course in procreating with a stupid and weak man is producing an equally stupid and weak son who would lead the family to ruin, which is in fact what happened with Olenna. I don't know how happy such unions are--Genna Lannister and Emmon Frey seemed pretty miserable--but it depends on how much Sansa values her autonomy.

In the books, she already has Sweetrobin if she decides to make that choice. (TV Robin doesn't seem particularly attached to Sansa one way or another.)

 

I don't think so. I believe GRRM shot down the Gendry/Arya pairing. He's been similarly blunt before; in Russia when asked if Jorah would ever get out of the friendzone, GRRM replied "I wouldn't bet on it." He essentially told the shipper's friend "They're not going to wind up together." I guess he took pity on the friend, LOL.

 

Clapton specifically said that the costuming showed Sansa closing herself off from the possibility of being touched. How can it have "nothing to do with Sansa in S8"? She'll still have been raped many times in S8, and she'll still be affected by it. That's not magically going to go away next season. Sansa's not going to go from dressing in a way that ensures no one can touch her to falling in love or into bed with someone in S8.

 

He did, in not so many words, if the Gendry/Arya shipper--someone who had every reason to discount or doubt what he said--is to be believed. "Separate futures" is pretty explicit.

 

Bryan Cogman said that the Arya/Nymeria scene was foreshadowing for Arya (or words to that effect). Arya realizing that Nymeria was too wild to be shut up at Winterfell seems like foreshadowing Arya's ultimate departure from Winterfell to do her own exploring.

Well, given the few episodes we have left and how fast some things happen, and mostly the fact that being a victim of rape doesn't necessarily condemn you to a life with no sex whatsoever, especially given the "no heir" implication in a world ruled by well rulling families I am voting for "it will change" but we shall see.   Okay this being said I don't see Sansa as hugely seeking just sexual gratification lol

In the books, she is playful and very teasy and very aware of her sexuality in the TWOW chapter released.  Okay, she was not abused in the books but, thinking that the endings for about 10 main characters or say, maybe fewer, are extremely likely to be the same, with route variations, I am definitely going for married Sansa. (not necessarily to Tyrion but okay, yes, pretty much my candidate lol).

If she were to marry someone with less ability than her and weak that would be a means to and end.  Don't put it past her, especially after being a pawn as a younger person but I am more aiming at a political marriage with someone not totally abhorrent to her mentally.  Now, for the sex this would require someone skilled, compassionate (at least with her for whatever the reasons - even selfish ones) who can pull it off in terms of easing her.  Tyrion was truly tempted and some people see that as super creepy.  To me that is just very human.  There is little literary merit in going past a cake shop when not hungry and not steal a cake! lol  He was tempted but he respected that she could not possibly be ready despite her being ready to do her duty! (he understood she didn't want him, she just wanted to survive, which is more than fine lol).  However, he did try to make her life as comfortable as possible.  I grant, he should have come clean about Shae, that was certainly a mistake on his part.  Still, in both books and show they seem to remember each other fondly albeit briefly for now... As for skilled, I think in the show Marg made a point...  He proved before that, no matter how aroused by her, he could contained himself (or wank instead of whatever it is he had to do).  She knows that.  He is safety, if anyone has to be chosen...

I personally feel, but could be wrong, that now that she has had a taste of power and now that she has seen how well meaning people could make terrible decisions in terms of consequences for themselves (Ned, Rob, Jon???) and feels frustrated that she cannot just tell them what her right or wrong mind says is the "correct advice."  If absolute autonomy and girl power is how she intends to rule even a castle, she is out of her depth.  I think she will finally realise that yes other people should have their say too (like Jon), maybe in private too but hey she is still learning  If she is to be the ruler I believe she is being groomed for by the plot, she needs to allow herself to trust more, delegate more and listen to others too! No-one can rule alone!  I am not saying without a partner, but without opposition lol. If she continues to want "no opposition" her life will be short and shallow and that is not what I predict for her; much more of a learning curve.

Funnily enough I am one of the few people who doesn't criticise her for keeping the "Vale help" a secret.  I saw that as insight into Jon, who would have opposed such move and make it impossible for her to pull it off...

In short, much as I would like it, maybe Ty and her are not it but someone of his mental acumen from a leading family would have to be.  We have gone on the merits of the single super powerful gal but that leaves WF with much lesser chances for an heir... and in that world, reforms or not that will continue to be important, especially after the blood shed we are about to witness next...  My two cents...

[Verily]

Depending on the outcomes of the wars to follow and who survives, there maybe an overhaul on the ruling systems in place throughout the 7 kingdoms. Tryion discussed with Dany about possible solutions for breaking the wheel, such as what the knight watch or Iron Islands practiced. 

Many of the long standing houses in Westeros have either been wiped out or are on their last legs (Tyrell, Tarly, Frey, Tully, Baratheon, Martell, Lannister, etc). Either new family alliances or houses rise up to fill the power vacuum, or new systems are put in place to determine governance of the various regions. 

[Morgana Lannister]

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Characters change from season to season. The only one that has been consistent on that matter (abuse) during years is Theon. The person that sold her to Ramsay is dead and now she can't be manipulated any more, and Ramsay is dead as well. I am not saying people who have been raped or suffered sexual abuse can be recovered very quickly, but it will depend on the case and this is fiction. Actually, Sansa showed a lot of strenght since s6, she even gave the order to kill both Ramsay, the sadistic raper, and LF, her mentor in game of thrones and sex trafficker.

Also, maybe s8 covers a lot of time in case the WWs get lost and/or Dany has a child from Jon. Apart from that, she could also experience love and being loved and don't sleep with someone in case she still had issues with sex, which I don't think it will be the case, but could be.

Moreover, the writers are the showrunners and Martin, not the costume designer. She doesn't know the endgame yet. 

I could pm you both; I was orally raped (made to do a blow job by fear of a knife whilst walking back from my ex-husbands place),  You will never believe this because I didn't either, at the time.  I was a little drunk after a gathering and a complete stranger, who didn't even attempt to talk to me took me from behind with a knife!!!  I always thought I would have just submitted so I didn't get killed... I didn't!  I shouted my lungs out!!!  Like in HBO, the right guys came to save me!!!  Seriously, reality is way better than fiction lol!  I shouted so hard a neighbour call the police.  When the police arrived, the abuser wanted me to say I was his girlfirend!  Fuck no!!! He made stories up, like I was a prostitute.  Futile since I am a lawyer, picked on the wrong victim lol and I pointed out to the Jury that even if that had been the case, it is irrelevant since the issue is consent lol

Okay, where I am going from here.  Okay, no way that my ordeal was anything like Ramsay to Sansa but no way that has put me off men or sex, simply off people who use sexual violence as a weapon to make themselves feel better...

My story was on the local paper and can provide evidence if anyone, not saying, but in case, thinks I am being a drama queen or something.

Rape, even lower level rape is horrible and very different from, say, someone kissing you in a club tentatively or something and you telling them to fuck off, not remotely the same!

To me, wishing for and fancying is no crime at all if you don't act upon it...

BTW, since he was so intent on denying medical evidence, he got originally 14 years for his troubles!!!  Lol way too much; even I could see that. used more tax-payers money and got it down to 7 eventually lol but I would have liked to see his face when he was told of the first sentence.  He pissed the Judge well and truly by his lies and overall misogyny (judge was male by the way)

lol almost forgot the point I was making; okay nothing like what Sansa in the show went through but after all that, although not in a hurry to meet anyone, if the right person comes alone...  If I were never to have sex again, people like the rapist would have won!!!

[Jane99]

7 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Sansa won't marry again for duty. She will either end up alone or marrying for love. 

I tend to think that duty will be the only thing to get her to marry again. She's certainly got no personal inclination for it at the moment - who can blame her - and the very thoughtful costuming is an indication of that, as I think someone already pointed out.

But one of Sansa's consistent desires throughout the series is for children. And to be blunt, assuming Westeros survives the winter, the Starks need children. There's only three of them left! If they don't start reproducing this is the last generation of House Stark.

Bran can't have kids. Arya has shown no desire for marriage or motherhood and there's no guarantee she'll ever be in a position to have them. That leaves Sansa, who not only wants kids but, as she's Lady of Winterfell, has the responsibility of getting and training an heir resting primarily on her.  

I think if she could find a suitable husband she'd grit her teeth and marry for the survival of her House - but he would have to be suitable. Someone she could control. Someone kind, because she'd not open herself up to that sort of risk again. Someone who's lower than her on the political hierarchy so she retains her name and the control of Winterfell and never has to leave it. That rules out Tyrion and the young Lord Arryn, but surely there's a Northern lord with an appropriate sort of younger son out there.  

[Newstar]

2 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

snip

I've said my piece about Gendry/Arya. Agree to disagree.

 

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I agree with that possibility, to me that scene might mean many things:

(...)

b)ultimately leading her pack is more important. That means, being responsible, a leader (that could happen in both scenearios), and the pack thing, maybe finding love, also compatible with both places.

Could be, but the showrunners and writers when discussing that scene didn't talk about Nymeria as a leader; it was all about her wildness (and Arya's wildness), and how Nymeria is not cut out to be domesticated (no more than Arya is).

 

1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Characters change from season to season. The only one that has been consistent on that matter (abuse) during years is Theon. 

One of the (few) things the writers got right in S7 is acknowledging as they did with Theon that people don't just "get over" trauma. What I see with Michele Clapton's comments is her and I expect the showrunners' understanding that not only has Sansa been profoundly and permanently altered by her experience with Ramsay, but also Sansa isn't going to go from traumatized rape survivor using her clothing to armour herself against others to opening up romantically--let alone sexually--to anyone over the course of a few episodes in S8.

 

1 hour ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Okay, she was not abused in the books but, thinking that the endings for about 10 main characters or say, maybe fewer, are extremely likely to be the same, with route variations, I am definitely going for married Sansa. (not necessarily to Tyrion but okay, yes, pretty much my candidate lol).

It occurred to me that if Sansa is intended to end up single in the books, then that might explain why D&D decided to swap Sansa in for Jeyne in the Winterfell storyline, to "explain" why a young, beautiful woman with options would choose not to remarry. (That would be incredibly gross on D&D's part if indeed that's the case, but I can't put it past them.)

 

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If absolute autonomy and girl power is how she intends to rule even a castle, she is out of her depth.  I think she will finally realise that yes other people should have their say too (like Jon), maybe in private too but hey she is still learning

I think her frustration with Jon refusing to take her advice and the fickle, disloyal Northern lords may actually harden her resolve not to be beholden to anyone.

 

28 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

snip

I'm so sorry that that happened.

[greensleeves]

26 minutes ago, Morgana Lannister said:

lol almost forgot the point I was making; okay nothing like what Sansa in the show went through but after all that, although not in a hurry to meet anyone, if the right person comes alone...  If I were never to have sex again, people like the rapist would have won!!!

Thank you for sharing.  

I think Sansa's clothing choices may be more about expressing her own agency rather than never wanting to be sexually touched again (also that it's really cold). 

From Clapton's Making game of Thrones article:

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“This is her taking back control of her body. I designed it to wrap around over her side-laced dress to represent the absolute removal of any possible physical touch. Her dresses are also tightly-laced on, incredibly difficult to remove; it’s a message to Littlefinger.”

I don't interpret this statement as her not wanting touch... just that she wants to control it. I wonder if her clothing will change at all when Littlefinger is no longer around. 

 

2 hours ago, Newstar said:

It depends. If Sansa, consummate game player that she is, decides that she needs to marry to produce an heir but is also loath to give up any power of her own, the smart thing to do would be to marry someone too stupid and weak to pose any threat to her power and who would allow her to scheme, plot, and run the show in peace. The risk of course in procreating with a stupid and weak man is producing an equally stupid and weak son who would lead the family to ruin, which is in fact what happened with Olenna. I don't know how happy such unions are--Genna Lannister and Emmon Frey seemed pretty miserable--but it depends on how much Sansa values her autonomy.

 

We're forgetting the Maege Mormont method: never marry, have a bunch of kids, declare them trueborn heirs, and shut down anyone who says otherwise.

[Newstar]

7 minutes ago, Jane99 said:

I tend to think that duty will be the only thing to get her to marry again.

Duty's never been much of a motivator for Sansa when push comes to shove, either in the books or in the show. That's Catelyn, not Sansa. 

 

[Morgana Lannister]

12 minutes ago, Newstar said:

I've said my piece about Gendry/Arya. Agree to disagree.

 

Could be, but the showrunners and writers when discussing that scene didn't talk about Nymeria as a leader; it was all about her wildness (and Arya's wildness), and how Nymeria is not cut out to be domesticated (no more than Arya is).

 

One of the (few) things the writers got right in S7 is acknowledging as they did with Theon that people don't just "get over" trauma. What I see with Michele Clapton's comments is her and I expect the showrunners' understanding that not only has Sansa been profoundly and permanently altered by her experience with Ramsay, but also Sansa isn't going to go from traumatized rape survivor using her clothing to armour herself against others to opening up romantically--let alone sexually--to anyone over the course of a few episodes in S8.

 

It occurred to me that if Sansa is intended to end up single in the books, then that might explain why D&D decided to swap Sansa in for Jeyne in the Winterfell storyline, to "explain" why a young, beautiful woman with options would choose not to remarry. (That would be incredibly gross on D&D's part if indeed that's the case, but I can't put it past them.)

 

I think her frustration with Jon refusing to take her advice and the fickle, disloyal Northern lords may actually harden her resolve not to be beholden to anyone.

 

I'm so sorry that that happened.

thank you  bless you!   I think the post is not publicbly available due to contents.  I ignored what happened all the time but sometimes it comes back to haunt me... Not in a relationship at present but would contemplate one with the right person... 

[Newstar]

3 minutes ago, greensleeves said:

From Clapton's Making game of Thrones article:

I don't interpret this statement as her not wanting touch... just that she wants to control it. I wonder if her clothing will change at all when Littlefinger is no longer around. 

That statement's pretty clear: "the absolute removal of any possible physical touch." As I said.

 

Quote

We're forgetting the Maege Mormont method: never marry, have a bunch of kids, declare them trueborn heirs, and shut down anyone who says otherwise.

That's not Sansa's style, insofar as she has a style. Worked for Maege Mormont, but Sansa's no Maege.

[Morgana Lannister]

Just now, Newstar said:

Duty's never been much of a motivator for Sansa when push comes to shove, either in the books or in the show. That's Catelyn, not Sansa. 

 

Not so sure... okay, call it survival but she started to undress for Tyrion...to me that was both survival and duty; more duty in fact because before hand he had saved her from Joffrey's wrath despite possible consequences for himself...

Again, it is great to see how different readers/viewers different characters differently

[greensleeves]

3 minutes ago, Newstar said:

That statement's pretty clear: "the absolute removal of any possible physical touch." As I said.

 

I guess it must not be clear, because I assume she's talking about touch Sansa doesn't want (see the taking back control of her body part). Whatever. 

[Morgana Lannister]

9 minutes ago, greensleeves said:

Thank you for sharing.  

I think Sansa's clothing choices may be more about expressing her own agency rather than never wanting to be sexually touched again (also that it's really cold). 

From Clapton's Making game of Thrones article:

I don't interpret this statement as her not wanting touch... just that she wants to control it. I wonder if her clothing will change at all when Littlefinger is no longer around. 

 

 

We're forgetting the Maege Mormont method: never marry, have a bunch of kids, declare them trueborn heirs, and shut down anyone who says otherwise.

That could work lol and more kudos to Maege! but I think Sansa is not going that route.  For one thing, she could turn up Mad Lady without a Counsel, as would anyone, male or female lol.  Not Mad as Aerys or Cersei but way too strong in her beliefs...  I personally think she will accept counsel.  Okay that doesn't have to mean marriage and/or kids but given the succession... and her ambitions... okay each to their own by I think her and Tyrion are personality-wise near perfect... but hey I know I am in the minority here