Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Col Cinders

Tyrion - Sansa reunion

Recommended Posts

16 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Interesting. What other hints on both reunions did you catch? 
I'm a book reader, but I haven't reread Arya's chapters for a while. 

And "I don like gingers" is a perfect example of Sandorspeak. No doubts. Especially that a trackable list of gingers in his life isn't long:D

For SanSan the gingers mention and the fact that LF mentions Sandor to Sansa and she reacts but keeps it for herseld. I think Sandor is mentioned twice? IDRC
For Arya/Gendry is the theme of the books about being the quickest/fastest and him being strong for her, especially in the chapter when they are wrestling. In e6 Gendry is called literally "the fastest" and in e7 Arya is "the strongest".

Extremely subtle, and might not be on purpose but still is there. @sweetsunray was the one who caught the "fast" theme in epi6 and made the connection with the books. I noticed the "strongest" Word in epi7 after having being told the other thing in ep6.

I think there are more things, but I don't recall them now. Apparently the conversation with Thoros has elements from that chapter and also there are other elements in the conversations with Tormund I think.

Yep, totally Sandorspeak!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I think that the hints are there this season but they are subtle on purpose. Even contradictory if you take them literally like "I don't like gingers".

I agree with you. They postponed the reunion on purpose, so that LF was not there anymore. Whatever it happens, the meeting will be significant. Same with Arya/Gendry. As for this case a poster convinced me that there could also be extremely subtle hints in the dialogue (one in episode 6 and I found another in episode 7) that maybe were not on purpose but if you are a book reader and fan of Arya (like you have reread her chapters a lot) will come to your mind once you are told about them (and they are also about the "contrary" but in another way).

Thing is that D&D have never been that subtle. When they want to hint at something, they do it with the subtlety of a sledgehammer. Look at Daenerys' future pregnancy. We know it is going to happen because they are being so damn obvious about it. If they really were going to set up Sansa with Sandor, they would have the two of them bringing each other up multiple times. As it stands right now, I don't think the general audience even remembers that Sandor and Sansa had a relationship to begin with. They associate him more with Arya who Sandor did bring up in the finale

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am 99.9999% sure Sansa and Sandor are NOT happening.  Nothing remotely suggest that on the show and in the books he's still presumed dead. Even GRRM referred to Sandor as more dangerous than romantic.  It's amazing people equate love with "sexual arousal".  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

Thing is that D&D have never been that subtle. When they want to hint at something, they do it with the subtlety of a sledgehammer. Look at Daenerys' future pregnancy. We know it is going to happen because they are being so damn obvious about it. If they really were going to set up Sansa with Sandor, they would have the two of them bringing each other up multiple times. As it stands right now, I don't think the general audience even remembers that Sandor and Sansa had a relationship to begin with. They associate him more with Arya who Sandor did bring up in the finale

Thank you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

I think that Sansan could happen not because it was hinted recently, but because this was obviously avoided. 

(...)

The same thing is with Arya and Gendry. 

The absence of hints is not in of itself a hint. That would be like saying that Cersei has never mentioned Brienne, so she's clearly hot for her. That's not how writing ships works, and it's certainly not how D&D operate. 

 

9 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I think that the hints are there this season but they are subtle on purpose. 

D&D are not known for their subtle writing, either in general, or in writing ships.

Look at how they've written Jaime/Brienne. Cersei straight-up asks Brienne whether she's in love with Jaime (and Brienne doesn't deny it!). Bronn opines that Jaime and Brienne want to bang. Jaime goes all moony-eyed at the sight of Tarth. That's their idea of writing romance. It's about as subtle as a brick to the head. Jon/Dany is even worse; we know that Jon's hot for Dany because Davos tells him so. D&D are much better at telling than showing, that classic writing sin; if they're not telling you anything about a given ship, it's because they have nothing to say.

Look at how they've hinted at future plot developments in Season 7. We know Dany's going to get knocked up, because there were four references to Jon, Dany and kids--including a line raising doubt as to whether Dany is indeed infertile--over the space of two episodes. Brick, meet head.

We know Cleganebowl's going to happen because Sandor marched right up to Gregor and informed him that it would. Brick, meet head.

We know Sandor and Arya's relationship is considered to be important by the writers because the two have mentioned each other several times (in a positive light), and Sandor and Brienne even have a cute bonding moment over what a good little fighter Arya has become in 7x07. Sansa easily could have been mentioned in that conversation and wasn't. Why? Because the writers don't consider hinting at that relationship important.

These writers are not subtle. If they were going to do SanSan, you would know. If you have to scour the episodes for "subtle hints," they're not there.

To bring this back to the thread, in Season 7, Tyrion and Sansa did mention each other in positive terms: Sansa praised Tyrion's kindness, and Tyrion praised Sansa's intelligence. The show also established that Tyrion's the only one of Sansa's "men"--such as they are--that Jon likes and considers a friend (he did make up with Theon, but they're never going to be BFF). If the show had done with SanSan in S7 what they did with Sansa and Tyrion, and indeed there was ample opportunity to do so, I could see what all the fuss was about, but there was absolutely nothing. Not that I think the show is headed towards Sansa/Tyrion, but that is the sort of thing I would have expected in S7 were the writers going in that direction.

 

9 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

For Arya/Gendry is the theme of the books about being the quickest/fastest and him being strong for her, especially in the chapter when they are wrestling. In e6 Gendry is called literally "the fastest" and in e7 Arya is "the strongest".

Extremely subtle, and might not be on purpose but still is there.

Again, as with SanSan, if you have to look this hard for signs as to Arya/Gendry, they're not there. D&D are not subtle writers, and that's particularly true of the seasons they've written without books to draw on. 

 

8 hours ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

Thing is that D&D have never been that subtle. When they want to hint at something, they do it with the subtlety of a sledgehammer. Look at Daenerys' future pregnancy. We know it is going to happen because they are being so damn obvious about it. If they really were going to set up Sansa with Sandor, they would have the two of them bringing each other up multiple times. As it stands right now, I don't think the general audience even remembers that Sandor and Sansa had a relationship to begin with. They associate him more with Arya who Sandor did bring up in the finale

Yes yes yes.

 

1 hour ago, JonSansaBranArya said:

I am 99.9999% sure Sansa and Sandor are NOT happening.  

Agreed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really think it could go either way.  The show is very heavy handed when it does it's version of "foreshadowing"....I have no idea why they straight ups said that Mel and Varys were goners already, that was kind of dumb, but I digress.  But, the show also likes SHOCKS and TWISTS.  So, they could be avoiding any foreshadowing of Sansa/Hound for that reason.....shocking unexpected last minute twist.  Or not.

I've always thought Arya/Gendry was fan shipping, even in the books, it's a huge, huge long shot that Arya is going to end up alive even, let alone paired up with a partner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tyrion and Sansa are not a bad match...the problem is that show Tyrion is a lot nicer than book Tyron (wasn't he fantasizing about raping Cersei to get revenge on her? That's a big no no) and the question is how much the show writers are going to take from GRRM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is considered a hint depends on a viewer/a reader.  Those who hang out at this board catch more stuff than a general audience. For many people who only watch the show R+L=J was a shocker, though it has been hinted all over the show. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I really think it could go either way.  The show is very heavy handed when it does it's version of "foreshadowing"....I have no idea why they straight ups said that Mel and Varys were goners already, that was kind of dumb, but I digress.

There was also the Shireen/Melisandre scene (in Season 4, I think?) which telegraphed several episodes out that Melisandre would wind up burning Shireen. There was no other reason for that scene.

 

Quote

But, the show also likes SHOCKS and TWISTS.  So, they could be avoiding any foreshadowing of Sansa/Hound for that reason.....shocking unexpected last minute twist.  Or not.

They haven't done that with ships, though. Even Jon/Dany was strongly hinted at in 6x10 before they met. "The best way to make an alliance is with marriage." [KITN scene ensues]

 

20 minutes ago, digiFemme said:

Tyrion and Sansa are not a bad match...the problem is that show Tyrion is a lot nicer than book Tyron (wasn't he fantasizing about raping Cersei to get revenge on her? That's a big no no) and the question is how much the show writers are going to take from GRRM.

I think we can safely conclude that the endgames for the major characters will be the same in the books and the show. Liam Cunningham has also said that the "major relationships" are the same (or words to that effect).

I've never really seen Tyrion as husband or father material in the books--because temperamentally he didn't seem to have much interest in either--which is why it puzzles me when fans speculate that he's the one who's going to raise Dany and Jon's orphaned baby when the dust settles. He obviously loved Tommen and Myrcella, but as their wacky drunk uncle, not as a surrogate father.

 

17 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

What is considered a hint depends on a viewer/a reader.  Those who hang out at this board catch more stuff than a general audience. For many people who only watch the show R+L=J was a shocker, though it has been hinted all over the show. 

The R+L=J hints were extremely broad by any measure, though. Stannis musing that Ned didn't seem like the type to cheat on his wife? Come on. That's right up there with Jon asking Dany if she'd ever considered that the crazy witch might not have been a reliable source of information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Newstar said:

The absence of hints is not in of itself a hint. That would be like saying that Cersei has never mentioned Brienne, so she's clearly hot for her. That's not how writing ships works, and it's certainly not how D&D operate. 

There's no absence of hints, as I said, there are hints.

 

Quote

 

D&D are not known for their subtle writing, either in general, or in writing ships.

Look at how they've written Jaime/Brienne. Cersei straight-up asks Brienne whether she's in love with Jaime (and Brienne doesn't deny it!). Bronn opines that Jaime and Brienne want to bang. Jaime goes all moony-eyed at the sight of Tarth. That's their idea of writing romance. It's about as subtle as a brick to the head. Jon/Dany is even worse; we know that Jon's hot for Dany because Davos tells him so. D&D are much better at telling than showing, that classic writing sin; if they're not telling you anything about a given ship, it's because they have nothing to say.

And still, JBC triangle would not be evident for casual viewers since the hints to JB have been hinted at previous seasons (with the small exception of last season). Yes, it's true Cersei asked this, but this was in an episode written by George RR Martin and not the showrunners, so that big hint is not from them.

As for JB, I also can agree that it's  the most hinted love story from the show, but even casual viewers will be shocked when it happens. TV viewers that remember their story and books readers will be not.

And this season, episode 7, there were hints of JB, even if JB fans found it unappealing. They were very subtle, and I didn't catch them until rewatching. It's Brienne's words, that Jaime repeats to Cersei. There are also some looks (not only one exchange, but others) that might not be very easy to appreciate unless you are into them. And it's also the looks what they used with SanSAn. A subtle look.

 

Quote

Look at how they've hinted at future plot developments in Season 7. We know Dany's going to get knocked up, because there were four references to Jon, Dany and kids--including a line raising doubt as to whether Dany is indeed infertile--over the space of two episodes. Brick, meet head.

We know Cleganebowl's going to happen because Sandor marched right up to Gregor and informed him that it would. Brick, meet head.

We know Sandor and Arya's relationship is considered to be important by the writers because the two have mentioned each other several times (in a positive light), and Sandor and Brienne even have a cute bonding moment over what a good little fighter Arya has become in 7x07. Sansa easily could have been mentioned in that conversation and wasn't. Why? Because the writers don't consider hinting at that relationship important.

These writers are not subtle. If they were going to do SanSan, you would know. If you have to scour the episodes for "subtle hints," they're not there.

They normally aren't. Sometimes they are. Just remember, for instance, how they adapted Jon's and Aemon's speech about his origins. It's foreshadowing of Jon's current status quo and it's extremely subtle.

As for Jonerys, well, I saw nothing in terms of "falling in love". And they have been extremely straightforward, as you say, people telling them there is love, etc etc.. LOL, if they had not been direct  people would not have got it at all when the boatsex happens!:lmao:

And what does it have to be with the Arya/Sandor references? It's like, why couldn't they do them? At least it's good writing this time:

The moment between Brienne and Sandor they talk about Arya and not Sansa because Brienne and Sandor had last (and only time) meet each other in regards to protecting Arya. That's why she is in the conversation. Brienne doesn't know Sandor's story with Sansa.

Who's protecting her if you're here? 
The only one that needs protecting is the one that gets in her way.
It won't be me.

So, Sandor won't be in her way, they'll just meet. Important reunion, for sure, but not the most important. They all agree that Arya doesn't need protection, so Brienne can also have her story with Jaime as well. No more cockblocking for SanSa and Brienne. (Sansa doesn't need protection from now on as well). Arya, Sansa and Brienne are free! 

Moreover, when I was referring to subtle hints in regards to Sansan, I was referring mainly to the looks thing. The gingers thing is not subtle at all. For casual viewers, it might be, but for fans of got and reader not at all. I said subtle as a general thing referring to both hints and regarding casual viewers.

Quote

To bring this back to the thread, in Season 7, Tyrion and Sansa did mention each other in positive terms: Sansa praised Tyrion's kindness, and Tyrion praised Sansa's intelligence. The show also established that Tyrion's the only one of Sansa's "men"--such as they are--that Jon likes and considers a friend (he did make up with Theon, but they're never going to be BFF). If the show had done with SanSan in S7 what they did with Sansa and Tyrion, and indeed there was ample opportunity to do so, I could see what all the fuss was about, but there was absolutely nothing. Not that I think the show is headed towards Sansa/Tyrion, but that is the sort of thing I would have expected in S7 were the writers going in that direction.

Again, as with SanSan, if you have to look this hard for signs as to Arya/Gendry, they're not there. D&D are not subtle writers, and that's particularly true of the seasons they've written without books to draw on. 

Funny, because they have also established Gendry as the only one of Arya's "men" that Jon now considers a Friend ;) in a scene that reminds a lot the one of Bobby B-Ned Stark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Newstar said:

There was also the Shireen/Melisandre scene (in Season 4, I think?) which telegraphed several episodes out that Melisandre would wind up burning Shireen. There was no other reason for that scene.

I didn't think it was very direct, I didn't catch that at that time. I liked that in rewatchings because it was subtle at that time, although not much. You can't compare that scene to the one from Varys-Melisandre from this season which is YOU WILL DIE. So the spectrum of subtletly is broad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

What is considered a hint depends on a viewer/a reader.  Those who hang out at this board catch more stuff than a general audience. For many people who only watch the show R+L=J was a shocker, though it has been hinted all over the show. 

Yes, also, sometimes they're subtle, others they are not.

There have been lots of extremely subtle hints in regards to Jon's Targaryeness. I mean, lots. There are videos of that on youtube. So denying that canon developing romances won't happen bc they are never subtle  would deny the evidence that sometimes they ACTUALLY are subtle.

Also, totally agree with the schoking moments! It's their last season, they will want plenty of shocking moments. But....some hints will still be there for those who caught them ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

There's no absence of hints, as I said, there are hints.

The argument was made that the absence of explicit references to SanSan is somehow proof of something. It's not.

As for the rest of your argument, it falls apart because there were obvious and explicit references to Jaime/Brienne and Jon/Dany: alluding to the fact that they want to fuck (or one wants to fuck the other), other characters commenting on their attraction, straight-up saying that they're in love, etc. There's nothing like that for Sandor/Sansa, especially in S7 where D&D have obviously foreshadowed important plot points with extremely unsubtle dialogue (Dany having a kid, Cleganebowl, etc.). If D&D were setting up SanSan, it would be just as obvious as Sandor strolling up to Gregor and informing him that he's going to kill him. Not to mention that if there were obvious hints, you would have mentioned them as evidence for SanSan, but there aren't, so you can't. You claim that there are subtle hints even though that's not how D&D have ever operated. I've given multiple examples of unsubtle references for Jaime/Brienne and Jon/Dany; there's nothing like that for SanSan, and the answer as to why that is is obvious. The writers are not interested in setting up SanSan. 

That you're reduced to trying to find subtle hints to support SanSan, while acknowledging that D&D have been unsubtle in hinting at J/B and Jon/Dany, pretty much defeats your own argument: you wouldn't have to do so if that's where D&D were going, and I think you know that.

 

Quote

Moreover, when I was referring to subtle hints in regards to Sansan, I was referring mainly to the looks thing. The gingers thing is not subtle at all. For casual viewers, it might be, but for fans of got and reader not at all. I said subtle as a general thing referring to both hints and regarding casual viewers.

D&D don't do subtle. The gingers exchange was more "LOL gingers" humour, like Jon's crack in Season 5 about how latrine duty seemed like a good job for a ginger, and also because D&D thought it would be funny if Tormund hit on Sandor (it was). Compare this with Davos' "I noticed you staring at Dany, you totally want to bang her" comments. Completely unambiguous and incapable of any other interpretation. Again, if you have to work to grasp the reference, there is none. 

 

Quote

Funny, because they have also established Gendry as the only one of Arya's "men" that Jon now considers a Friend ;) in a scene that reminds a lot the one of Bobby B-Ned Stark

It's notable because Jon spent S7 snapping and snarling at Sansa's "men": LF, Theon, even Sandor (who earned Jon's ire when he snatched Thoros' booze). Only Tyrion has Jon's approval, even after mentioning Sansa to Jon (which with LF and Theon earned a swift "STFU about Sansa" response). It would have been easy to include a scene with Sandor and Jon bonding over Sansa, or heck, even talking about her, but they didn't. It would have been easy for Gendry to mention Arya to Jon, since his friendship with Arya is his main connection to Jon, but he didn't. There's no "there" there.

 

21 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Yes, also, sometimes they're subtle, others they are not.

They've never been unsubtle with SanSan, which is all you need to know. If you have to talk about "subtle hints," you're already acknowledging that there are no unsubtle hints, and given D&D's unsubtle methods of spelling out romance with other characters, you're pretty much admitting that you have nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Newstar said:

As for the rest of your argument, it falls apart because there were obvious and explicit references to Jaime/Brienne and Jon/Dany: alluding to the fact that they want to fuck (or one wants to fuck the other), other characters commenting on their attraction, straight-up

it's amazing! Jon and Dany went from 0 to 100 in six episodes, one season.

What happens in s8? one season, six episodes!

oh it's the same!
actually not, there is a story before :)

What I like about Jonerys is the fact that it proves that any romance is possible. Even that happened in less than six episodes and them having never met before!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

snip

I think you're really reaching, but we'll have to agree to disagree. SanSan should probably have its own thread to be discussed in any event.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

it's amazing! Jon and Dany went from 0 to 100 in six episodes, one season.

What happens in s8? one season, six episodes!

oh it's the same!
actually not, there is a story before :)

What I like about Jonerys is the fact that it proves that any romance is possible. Even that happened in less than six episodes and them having never met before!

The difference is that even before they met, they were very blatantly foreshadowing Jon and Dany getting together in some way. The season 6 finale was very direct about it.

In addition, at this point, Jon and Daenerys are pretty much the leads of the show and they had more screentime than any other character. In the 5 episodes they were together, I believe someone calculated that they had about an hour of screentime together. Do you really think Sandor is going to get that much screentime in the final season even by himself? Forget about sharing that much time with Sansa. There's a difference between doing a romance in 5 episodes for the main characters who are on-screen more than any other character and a minor character who will prob have like 15 min screentime in the entire season

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Newstar said:

The argument was made that the absence of explicit references to SanSan is somehow proof of something. It's not.

As for the rest of your argument, it falls apart because there were obvious and explicit references to Jaime/Brienne and Jon/Dany: alluding to the fact that they want to fuck (or one wants to fuck the other), other characters commenting on their attraction, straight-up saying that they're in love, etc. There's nothing like that for Sandor/Sansa, especially in S7 where D&D have obviously foreshadowed important plot points with extremely unsubtle dialogue (Dany having a kid, Cleganebowl, etc.). If D&D were setting up SanSan, it would be just as obvious as Sandor strolling up to Gregor and informing him that he's going to kill him. Not to mention that if there were obvious hints, you would have mentioned them as evidence for SanSan, but there aren't, so you can't. You claim that there are subtle hints even though that's not how D&D have ever operated. I've given multiple examples of unsubtle references for Jaime/Brienne and Jon/Dany; there's nothing like that for SanSan, and the answer as to why that is is obvious. The writers are not interested in setting up SanSan. 

They've never been unsubtle with SanSan, which is all you need to know. If you have to talk about "subtle hints," you're already acknowledging that there are no unsubtle hints, and given D&D's unsubtle methods of spelling out romance with other characters, you're pretty much admitting that you have nothing.

SanSan hints have never unsubtle? So they have always been subtle but then you have said that D's have never been subtle with SanSan? You are contradicting yourself.

And subtle  hints doesn't mean that unsubtle hints can't exist, one thing has nothing to do with the other. In fact, contrarily to what you say, I've acknowledged that there is an spectrum of subtlety in their hinting methods, from very subtle to extremely obvious and gross:dunno: even with the same aspect that they are foreshadowing.

Direct, indirect, subtle, gross, poetic.....their foreshadowing methods are very different. And that doesn't depend on the nature of the event, they have done different things in the romantic department, even foreshadowing Jon's origins they have gone from the almost imperceptible, subtle and poetic (Aemon and Jon in s1)  to the more direct references (like the shocking and incestuous revelation in the last episode)

Quote

If D&D were setting up SanSan, it would be just as obvious as Sandor strolling up to Gregor and informing him that he's going to kill him. Not to mention that if there were obvious hints, you would have mentioned them as evidence for SanSan, but there aren't, so you can't. You claim that there are subtle hints even though that's not how D&D have ever operated. I've given multiple examples of unsubtle references for Jaime/Brienne and Jon/Dany; there's nothing like that for SanSan, and the answer as to why that is is obvious. The writers are not interested in setting up SanSan. 

D&D don't do subtle. The gingers exchange was more "LOL gingers" humour, like Jon's crack in Season 5 about how latrine duty seemed like a good job for a ginger, and also because D&D thought it would be funny if Tormund hit on Sandor (it was). Compare this with Davos' "I noticed you staring at Dany, you totally want to bang her" comments. Completely unambiguous and incapable of any other interpretation. Again, if you have to work to grasp the reference, there is none. 

Jaime and Brienne have had subtle references and also direct ones, it depends on the context and how much time they have been separated, as well as their privacy and the characters that would use the dialogue.

For example, we have a direct reference with the fucking thing when neither of them are there, but we also have the Oathkeeper-Heart reference from Jaime in the tent scene, which is very romantic and telling for those who are into the fandom (not that much for casual viewers, though). In the last episode we had an almost imperceptible reference between JC in their dialogue that supports the idea that Brienne has an effect in him (there is a similar one after he sees her in s6 ), and he repeats her words to Cersei after their brief, tense scene with Brienne. That pretty much supports my argument, the way they foreshadow things is not only about :

"These two love each other"

"These two will fuck each other"

As for SanSan this season, did you really think that Brienne would have told Sandor out of a sudden after 3 years (and the nature of their last encounter) why don't you love/fuck Sansa? And then, he'd be saying yes or no?

It could happen next season.....and Sandor might respond "Fuck off!" in his Sandorspeak way.....but not this season.

Do you think that Sandor would have talked with Jon  in the middle of the wight hunt about the little bird, like...yes, I confess to you that I love your sister?

One thing is to ignore/don't want to acknowledge/don't see/have the opinion that the hints are not there///  aboutSanSan but another, very different is suggesting that SanSan will 100% not happen because they have no had those kind of unsubtle dialogues!

But, on the ther hand, they were quite direct to GOT fans/readers with the gingers mention, which was appropiate considering the characters and the moment. Was it also for humour relief? Absolutely. But there was something more there. Sandor would have not told Tormund his secret of loving Sansa in the middle of the wight hunt. Although, in his own way.......he quite gave himself away... ;)

5 hours ago, Newstar said:

It's notable because Jon spent S7 snapping and snarling at Sansa's "men": LF, Theon, even Sandor (who earned Jon's ire when he snatched Thoros' booze). Only Tyrion has Jon's approval, even after mentioning Sansa to Jon (which with LF and Theon earned a swift "STFU about Sansa" response). It would have been easy to include a scene with Sandor and Jon bonding over Sansa, or heck, even talking about her, but they didn't. It would have been easy for Gendry to mention Arya to Jon, since his friendship with Arya is his main connection to Jon, but he didn't. There's no "there" there.

Nope. Not at all. I'll remind you that Jon's last scene with Theon suggests the contrary of what you are saying. He is a Stark, and a Greyjoy!

Do you know why he thinks that he did things wrong? Not for Sansa, but for Winterfell and the little boys and Bran's story.

Sandor? He is his companion in the wight hunt and there is a scene where they cuddle, when they are falling asleep....it's so cute in fact.

I agree with the fact that it would have been easy to include an scene of Sansa/Arya mentioning but they probably decided that the reunions would be between the different parts in WF. That doesn't mean there's no there there, though, Not because they were not mentioned.

However, an scene between Sandor and Gendry was planned in which they had to talk about Arya (preliminary script) and Gendry had to be in the wight hunt during more time with Brienne (they would probably have mentioned her later) but then decided that they'd be more subtle and save it for next season with direct reunions. Gendry was not seen in Eastwatch, so he is probably already travelling to WF.

There was also the scene in which Tormund and Jon talk about not having women around and they should be with what they got there....and Gendry leaves suddenly the conversation. He is not interested in that. He has his friend in WF. 

Gendry bonded instancly with Arya's greatest love, her brother Jon SNow.  That's even bigger than the dwarf/bastard friendship you were referring to before. And we had the gingers connection

They are basically saving the best for the last season......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

In addition, at this point, Jon and Daenerys are pretty much the leads of the show and they had more screentime than any other character. In the 5 episodes they were together, I believe someone calculated that they had about an hour of screentime together. Do you really think Sandor is going to get that much screentime in the final season even by himself? Forget about sharing that much time with Sansa. There's a difference between doing a romance in 5 episodes for the main characters who are on-screen more than any other character and a minor character who will prob have like 15 min screentime in the entire season

I doubt Jonerys had 1 hour of screentime alone.

Sandor is a major character* so he'll have more than 15 minutes of screentime.

I didn’t realize they were going to bring me slowly [in] for the next six years, but it’s just been a wonderful thing. I feel my first job, my first two days on “Game of Thrones,” was “spear carrier with a bit of history potentially,” “spear carrier looking after the king or the king’s son.” And going from that to one of the major characters and delving into his history and who he’s clashing with, it’s just been such a privilege with this. I’ve been going on this arc, this character development. He’s a different character from when he first started, and I don’t think I’ll ever get a job like this again.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-hound-actor-rory-mccann-says-hes-already-training-for-clegane-bowl-on-game-of-thrones_us_59a444a4e4b0821444c4de37?utm_hp_ref=game-of-thrones

*Major characters in the show are divided into two groups: Cersei-Tyrion-Jon-Dany and the rest. The rest is also divided into two groups, the main one includes Arya, Bran, Sansa...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I doubt Jonerys had 1 hour of screentime alone.

Sandor is a major character* so he'll have more than 15 minutes of screentime.

I didn’t realize they were going to bring me slowly [in] for the next six years, but it’s just been a wonderful thing. I feel my first job, my first two days on “Game of Thrones,” was “spear carrier with a bit of history potentially,” “spear carrier looking after the king or the king’s son.” And going from that to one of the major characters and delving into his history and who he’s clashing with, it’s just been such a privilege with this. I’ve been going on this arc, this character development. He’s a different character from when he first started, and I don’t think I’ll ever get a job like this again.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-hound-actor-rory-mccann-says-hes-already-training-for-clegane-bowl-on-game-of-thrones_us_59a444a4e4b0821444c4de37?utm_hp_ref=game-of-thrones

*Major characters in the show are divided into two groups: Cersei-Tyrion-Jon-Dany and the rest. The rest is also divided into two groups, the main one includes Arya, Bran, Sansa...

Fair enough. Agree to disagree. I just think D&D would have made it obvious if they really wanted to foreshadow SanSan. Instead they doubled down on Cleganebowl instead. We'll see

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×