Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Stormourne

Aegon and Daenerys: King and Queen of Westeros?

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Shortspear Rick said:

It makes sense for them to get married. It's not only a believable happy ending but as things have been going it's the logical conclusion. For one thing, it sure as hell would make it more palpable for all the Northern Lords who swore their allegiance to the King in the North if the kingdoms were united by marriage instead of knee bending.  But that would be too easy for D&D. If you watched the post-show stuff they talked about the tension and conflict the revelation brings. They're going to do Dance of the Dragons 2.0. Even if Martin goes that route, with the story choices they've made as they've outpaced the books it just doesn't make any sense. I can only assume that they wind up having a child (probably born on the boat before White Harbor because D&D don't understand how time works), both of them die from fighting and the heir is the King that leads Westeros to recovery following the Great War, the Prince who was Promised, or at least the regent they put in charge will (Tyrion?). 

You really think there'll be a Dance of Dragons between Jon and Dany? Or am I taking you up wrong?

From all we know of Jon's character, and the fact that he has acknowledged Dany as his Queen (not because of birthright, either, I should add) why would we think he would wage war against her for the Throne?

If you meant a Dance between Dany and the Night King, fair enough, but this idea that J and D will go to war seems...... far fetched. Especially in a 6 episode season with two huge conflicts yet to be resolved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I asked this same question in the Theories thread over in the General GOT board, but it's also relevant here:

1. If Jon's just going to die heroically in the war against the WWs, why is his status as legitimate heir to the Iron Throne so important?

2. If Jon's just going to wind up ascending the throne at the end and reigning wisely for 100 years or whatever, and if GRRM has been so clear on characters dying having severe and irrevocable consequences (even comparing Beric to a "fire wight"), why kill him off in ADWD/Season 5?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Newstar said:

I asked this same question in the Theories thread over in the General GOT board, but it's also relevant here:

1. If Jon's just going to die heroically in the war against the WWs, why is his status as legitimate heir to the Iron Throne so important?

2. If Jon's just going to wind up ascending the throne at the end and reigning wisely for 100 years or whatever, and if GRRM has been so clear on characters dying having severe and irrevocable consequences (even comparing Beric to a "fire wight"), why kill him off in ADWD/Season 5?

Just my guess.

1. The books I don't think will make him as legit heir to the throne. Obviously a targ but I don't see the whole annulment thing happening. I think the show is going to deviate from the books here and have Jon end up ruling at the end (because that's what the people want). GRRM said he is going to have bittersweet ending. So Jon ruling doesn't fit that ending I think. Even if Danny died.

2. The show killed him for the shock factor (and I think was still praying for GRRM to finish Winds). The books I think there will be lingering affects that happen to him that will change who he is fundamentally. I guess the books also did it so he can "end his watch" at the wall as well. All of this is why I don't see Jon doing the whole, heir to the throne thing in the books.

Obviously this is all just me guessing and could be way off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Johnimus said:

Why?

I mean this is just assumed by so many fans, and I have no idea why. Is it possible one dies? Of course. Is it likely? I don't think so. 

If one does die, I think it's more likely to be Jon than Dany, for the record. But I don't see why either *must* die.

Have you lived on Earth long?  It's the law of entertainment - especially when the author or show producers say the word "bittersweet" in association with the ending.           You must connect the dots my young padawan                  :huh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, NexivRed said:

 

 

Neither did any of the characters until they met one another...

They had plenty of build up and foreshadowing in the books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They haven't been exactly subtle about Daenerys being able to have children or not. She will get pregnant, and it wil be Jon's, I'm sure of it.

I don't know if that's good though. Incest never leads to anything good. As a Spaniard myself, we know this pretty well. The Spanish Habsburg dynasty became extinct because of it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Ingelheim said:

I don't know if that's good though. Incest never leads to anything good. As a Spaniard myself, we know this pretty well. The Spanish Habsburg dynasty became extinct because of it. 

It takes generations of inbreeding for genetic mutations and deformities to occur. 
More importantly, Game of Thrones is fiction. Please don't bring real life morals and genetics into it.
Jon and Dany's offspring (if she does end up pregnant and survives) will have whatever features and traits that the writers/author gives it, genetics be damned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

It takes generations of inbreeding for genetic mutations and deformities to occur. 
More importantly, Game of Thrones is fiction. Please don't bring real life morals and genetics into it.
Jon and Dany's offspring (if she does end up pregnant and survives) will have whatever features and traits that the writers/author gives it, genetics be damned.

LOL, what do you mean with "real life morals and genetics"?????????? Half of the Targaryens are completely nuts, because of the inbreeding. Hell, even Joffrey was nuts. It's not like Martin has suddenly decided that incest does not cause genetic malformations in Westeros. It's all over ASOIAF, and he's been pretty open about what incest does to people. His interviews are out there too. 

House Targaryen was full of members with deformities caused by the inbreeding, both phisically and mentally.

And those generations you mention have already happened. Dany is born of brother-sister incest, and she would be having a child with her niece. More than enough for their son to have some serious problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're missing the point. Again, this is fiction.
Chance has nothing to do with it, if their child becomes deformed, it's because the writers/author say it will be.
If their child becomes the most perfect little baby ever conceived, it's because the writers/author say it will be.

The argument "I hope they don't get a child, because the Habsburgers suffered severe genetic mutations due to their inbreeding" is about as pointless as pointing out that Dany should asphyxiate every time she walks into a fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dany will die. All dragons will die. Jon will not be interested in being King. A form of republic will be established with each kingdom having equal say. The wheel will be broken.

Jon will lead the North. Tyrion the Westernlands. Gendry the Stormlands (married to Sansa). Samwell the Reach. Edmure the Riverlands. Robin Arryn the Vale. Someone will lead in Dorne.

A religion based on the "New 7" will form. Jon as the Father. Dany as the Mother. Gendry as the Smith. Tyrion as the Crone. Sansa as the Maiden. Arya as the Stranger. Hound as the Warrior. All people who have been "remade after a series of trials" in some way.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Zombies That Were Promised said:

I don't care how cliche it is, I want Jon and Dany to be King and Queen.  Jon, of course, would have no natural interest in the Iron Throne but he'll get stuck on it when he's loovestruck for Dany and follow her up to the Red Keep like a little puppy.

This. Lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, nscheffel said:

Dany will die. All dragons will die. Jon will not be interested in being King. A form of republic will be established with each kingdom having equal say. The wheel will be broken.

Jon will lead the North. Tyrion the Westernlands. Gendry the Stormlands (married to Sansa). Samwell the Reach. Edmure the Riverlands. Robin Arryn the Vale. Someone will lead in Dorne.

A religion based on the "New 7" will form. Jon as the Father. Dany as the Mother. Gendry as the Smith. Tyrion as the Crone. Sansa as the Maiden. Arya as the Stranger. Hound as the Warrior. All people who have been "remade after a series of trials" in some way.    

Nah. Sansa needs to marry SweetRobin, have a daughter by him and then marry that daughter to Edmure's son by Frey girl and she can reconnect 3 kingdoms together and all essentially under her rule... Why tf would she marry Gendry esp if Arya is there to be like nahhh girl that's my man

#QueenOfWinter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Newstar said:

I asked this same question in the Theories thread over in the General GOT board, but it's also relevant here:

1. If Jon's just going to die heroically in the war against the WWs, why is his status as legitimate heir to the Iron Throne so important?

a. Dany has spent her entire adult life chasing the throne because she believes it's her birthright. But she was wrong. That has to cause some soul-searching. I think the result will be her realizing that she should take the throne anyway, for the good of the people and because she can, and the whole birthright thing was just a distraction. But whatever the result, its effect on her thinking is what matters. It's really the whole point of Dany's character.

b. It may be important to make him the PtwP or to make the NK recognize him or to give him double-kingsblood so he can sacrifice himself in a flame for some critical magic thing or whatever.

15 hours ago, Newstar said:

2. If Jon's just going to wind up ascending the throne at the end and reigning wisely for 100 years or whatever, and if GRRM has been so clear on characters dying having severe and irrevocable consequences (even comparing Beric to a "fire wight"), why kill him off in ADWD/Season 5?

I don't think the point is for Jon to ascend the throne and reign for 100 years. In part because of the reason you give, but for lots of other reasons.

If he does ascend the throne, I don't think book!Jon will actually die and be brought back by fire magic, he'll survive through magic without dying or something. Notice that, while GRRM has agreed that show!Jon seems to be a "fire wight" (and that "seems to" is important—he's talking as a viewer of the show), he's never agreed that book!Jon will be one. But again, I don't think he's going to ascend the throne in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is lots of foreshadowing for a Targaryen marriage: 

These were the examples i found. Feels like a lot at this point to just be a red herring or false foreshadowing.

 
s6e10: Dany leaves Dario in order to make room for a marriage alliance 
s7e7: Littlefinger talks to Sansa about how a marriage would make sense both politically and on a personal/ romantic level. 
s7e6: 3 different mentions of children regarding Jon or Dany 
s7e7: Jon telling Dany that she shouldn’t trust the witch regarding not being able to have a kid 
s1(forgot the episode): Jon tells Sam that he is still a virgin because he couldn’t bear the thought of getting a woman pregnant and his kid being a bastard like him. Effectively by the transitive property this means that any children foreshadowing is marriage foreshadowing. 
s1e1: The first desire Dany ever expresses is a desire to go home. Home is frequently a metaphor for family. And in her case, it definitely is since she says on several occasions in different locations - most notably this year at Dragonstone where she was born - that she doesn’t feel home implying there is no one location where she will feel at home in. This sets up the idea that returning home for her will be having a family again, perhaps the same one she would have had with her brothers son has there been no Robert's Rebellion.
s2e10: her vision at the house of the undying both show and book (e.g. “bridge of fire”; his is a song of ice and fire but there must be another). but specifically in the show, it shows her going north instead of taking the iron throne and finding her husband and child in the north. This season she decided to go north instead of finishing her conquest of westeros when all she had to do was take it. Feels like the only thing remaining is for her to find her husband and child in the north. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jcmontea said:

s2e10: her vision at the house of the undying both show and book (e.g. “bridge of fire”; his is a song of ice and fire but there must be another). but specifically in the show, it shows her going north instead of taking the iron throne and finding her husband and child in the north. This season she decided to go north instead of finishing her conquest of westeros when all she had to do was take it. Feels like the only thing remaining is for her to find her husband and child in the north. 

Of course, this must be the point of her vision.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Deminelle said:

Of course, this must be the point of her vision.

Yea. I am surprised this is not a more common interpretation. In this case, Drogo and Rhaego in the vision symbolically represent Jon and whatever they call their kid. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, jcmontea said:

 

s7e7: Littlefinger talks to Sansa about how a marriage would make sense both politically and on a personal/ romantic level. 
 

Littlefinger wants the Iron Throne. A marriage between them is a threat and he portrays it to Sansa as such. Doing that reverse psychology thing he does with the bit about Brienne.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Littlefinger wants the Iron Throne. A marriage between them is a threat and he portrays it to Sansa as such. Doing that reverse psychology thing he does with the bit about Brienne.

I get that. But regardless of why littlefinger says it, its still foreshadowing for it happening since its being mentioned and the logic behind it is being explained to the audience. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Littlefinger wants the Iron Throne. A marriage between them is a threat and he portrays it to Sansa as such. Doing that reverse psychology thing he does with the bit about Brienne.

It's a threat to Littlefinger's goals. I'm not entirely sure why he thought trying to sell Sansa on Jon+Daenerys marrying being a threat to Sansa was going to work.

I mean, from Sansa's perspective, it moves Jon out of the way for running Winterfell/the North, gives an ally against Cersei, and means Daenerys isn't going to move against the North or seek to retaliate against the Starks/North for their role in Robert's Rebellion, and if Queen Daenerys is married to Sansa's brother, Sansa's in a pretty strong position to reclaim everything - Sansa's the strong Tully claim to the Riverlands that's not in prison or a Frey (Edmure and his child by Roslin Frey) - and to have a major role, if she wants it, in the Royal Court.

Sure, there is the problem of Daenerys being a Targaryen and what the Targaryen's did to the Starks.

 

 

But yeah, they're definitely ending up married on the Show. This marriage will probably happen in the second half of Season 8 - since I expect them to be too busy in the first half between the Army of the Dead and the process of finding out and disseminating the truth about Jon's parentage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Kytheros said:

It's a threat to Littlefinger's goals. I'm not entirely sure why he thought trying to sell Sansa on Jon+Daenerys marrying being a threat to Sansa was going to work.

I think the issue is supposed to be that Sansa is Littlefinger's one blind spot.

What she actually wants is to be Lady of Winterfell, and Dany+Jon is the exact opposite of a threat to that (they're probably going to win and then name her Wardeness of the North).

But what LF wants for her, and and therefore keeps forgetting she doesn't want for herself, is to be Queen of the Seven Kingdoms with LF by her side, and nothing short of that is worth playing for; Winterfell is just a stepping stone on the way there. And Dany+Jon is a threat to that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×