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Where was Gendry?

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On 8/28/2017 at 10:50 AM, El Guapo said:

Why would they bring a blacksmith to a summit between the leaders of Westeros?

Especially one that was fathered by Robert.  Cersei would see that as an insult, unless they just kept his identity secret.  Maybe he is at WF forging dragonglass weapons.  

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2 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

It's a fair assumption that he already is in love with her in the books, not that he will.

Needing to fall in love in regards to Arya? What it's ciche is to assume that because she is how she is, she can't have feelings. Falling in love (or not) has nothing to do with cliches, but about enriching the story with more elements that can be developed in any way, depending on the characters.

I see a potential for him to fall in love, not that he is actually already in love. Depending on where she ends up, and who she meets, she could meet someone else, fall in love, etc. She could fall in love with Gendry. Hell, she could even fall in love with Jon (in the books, although the chance is small). 

Don't mind my dislike for Gendry, I just don't care whether he dies or survives. I'm sure George will write Arya's journey in a way that we will all love where she ends up at.

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7 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

I see a potential for him to fall in love, not that he is actually already in love. Depending on where she ends up, and who she meets, she could meet someone else, fall in love, etc. She could fall in love with Gendry. Hell, she could even fall in love with Jon (in the books, although the chance is small). 

 

I think he already is in the books.  sweetsunray summarised my thoughts very well above when we see him with Brienne. And I think that she feels something for him, although IMHO she has not fully acknowledged it yet, and because of that, when he thinks of him she quickly thinks of other people as well, but it's Gendry who first appears in her mind when she is frighetened before entering the HOBAW, and Gendry is the one she actually thinks of when riding with someone in the BWB, and quickly thinks it is a fantasy.  Of course, if they never met again, they could fall for other people, but we know they will meet again and there are lots of elements that support a possible romance so it's not as far-fetched.

I agree that there could be a triangle with Jon in the books. If it had to be someone, Jon and Gendry are the only ones that the text would support as candidates given the story. I've never viewed her relationship with JOn as anything more than a great sibling relationship, but the general outline and reading threads about it convinced me that I could not discard that possibility even if I would not like it. In the show, Jonrya is not happen though at this point, and I suppose it meas that also not in the books (atleast she would not choose him) since the endings have to be very similar.

Quote

Don't mind my dislike for Gendry, I just don't care whether he dies or survives. I'm sure George will write Arya's journey in a way that we will all love where she ends up at.

Don't worry, everyone has their favourites or is indifferent to others. I for one am more invested in the secondary characters of this story, apart from some main ones like Arya.

 

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17 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Why not Sansa and Gendry?  I'm sorry I just don't see Arya with anyone.  

Sansa and Gendry have no story, it would be anticlimatic

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1 minute ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Sansa and Gendry have no story, it would be anticlimatic

Would it though? Robert wanted his son to marry Sansa  and combine their houses.  He just thought his son was Joff.  Plus, for Sansa, she treated Jon like shit early in their lives because he was a bastard.  Well so was Gendry until he is named Gendry Baratheon.  I just don't see Arya ever getting married.  I see her being someone's protection.  Don't know who yet. 

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2 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Would it though? Robert wanted his son to marry Sansa  and combine their houses.  He just thought his son was Joff.  Plus, for Sansa, she treated Jon like shit early in their lives because he was a bastard.  Well so was Gendry until he is named Gendry Baratheon.  I just don't see Arya ever getting married.  I see her being someone's protection.  Don't know who yet. 

They don't have to marry, I mean, Arya and Gendry could be lovers,or theur romance end in a tragedy. But even if she married, well wasn't Lyanna a little bit like her and still married Rhaegar? 

As for Sansa, yeah it's true that she treated Jon badly because he was a bastard, but she is over it. They talked about it last season. Her arch is not about it. And I think that a major character like Sansa marrying a secondary character whose story is tied to  her sister would not make any sense. They would have to develop a story together, and there's no time for it, and there would still be Arya's past story with him, so doesn't look good.

Also, Arya could be a protector and still find love. It's not incompatible. 

And I'm not particularly into the line of joining houses, but if that was to happen, itwould definitely be referring to her sister. 

Sansa will either end up alone, marrying someone we will never know his name in this story or marrying someone she already has affections for and a story with, my bet it's The Hound if it happens this way.

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After losing Daenerys I predict Jon, using the fact he's basically the heir to the throne, will legitimise Gendry. 

Gendry will take leadership in the south, be it King on the iron throne or whatever, and Jon will be his Warden of the North. 

I originally loved the idea of Arya and Gendry, but they don't really work together as well as Gendry falling for Sansa and vice versa. And why not. And marrying to strengthen the bond between north and south. 

Sansa Baratheon, queen of Westeros after all. I quite like it. 

Arya will be Warden of the Vale. 

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4 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I think he already is in the books.  sweetsunray summarised my thoughts very well above when we see him with Brienne. And I think that she feels something for him, although IMHO she has not fully acknowledged it yet, and because of that, when he thinks of him she quickly thinks of other people as well, but it's Gendry who first appears in her mind when she is frighetened before entering the HOBAW, and Gendry is the one she actually thinks of when riding with someone in the BWB, and quickly thinks it is a fantasy.  Of course, if they never met again, they could fall for other people, but we know they will meet again and there are lots of elements that support a possible romance so it's not as far-fetched.

I agree that there could be a triangle with Jon in the books. If it had to be someone, Jon and Gendry are the only ones that the text would support as candidates given the story. I've never viewed her relationship with JOn as anything more than a great sibling relationship, but the general outline and reading threads about it convinced me that I could not discard that possibility even if I would not like it. In the show, Jonrya is not happen though at this point, and I suppose it meas that also not in the books (atleast she would not choose him) since the endings have to be very similar.

Don't worry, everyone has their favourites or is indifferent to others. I for one am more invested in the secondary characters of this story, apart from some main ones like Arya.

 

I could see a possible love triangle between Jon, Arya, And Gendry. Symbolically, this could mirror the whole Rhaegar, Lyanna, and Robert love triangle. However, the ending could be different since Gendry does not resemble his father in terms of his character. Gendry does not whore and get drunk, so far as I know.

Why this could work is that, for Arya, the tension would be realistic and possible. For her, Gendry would be logical choice, especially if he becomes Lord of the Stormlands - this could help cement an alliance between the Starks and Baratheons. I presume she would be physically attracted to him once she hits puberty. Who wouldn't? Lol.

With Jon, I think the attraction would be on a more more emotional and deeper level, something she would not be able to articulate. They both mirror each other in terms of narrative. Where Jon has died in a physical sense, Arya has almost died in a psychological sense (her identity is on the verge if death). I've always thought of them as different sides of the same coin. Perhaps, since she has this fractured identity, that when she reunites with him, her familial love would be corrupted, into something more romantic, or somewhere in-between.

So, while a relationship with Gendry would be healthy and normal, a transgressive relationship between her and Jon would be unhealthy and frowned upon, one born from tragedy and shared loss. So, in Jon, she could see a way to heal emotionally, get back her Arya identity - while with Gendry, she could see a way to heal in an outward sense in how she perceives the world - if that makes sense. At this point, I'm not sure how Gendry would be able to understand her in the same way Jon could. Although, he too could help her heal her psychological wounds.

I just can't help but see how symbolic such a love triangle would be.  Perhaps, this time, the wolf will choose the stag instead of the dragon?

If George has not scrapped the whole Starkcest plot, I could see him have Jon and Arya developing these forbidden feelings, only to have Jon die in the war against the White Walkers.

Would you mind reading these kind of scenarios involving Arya's romantic future?

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9 hours ago, NexivRed said:

I originally loved the idea of Arya and Gendry, but they don't really work together as well as Gendry falling for Sansa and vice versa.

Show-Gendry had one taste too many with a red-head. She leeched him, freaked him out so much Davos can't even find him in brothels and taverns. Sansa's not the same girl anymore as she once was, but Gendry very much seems to fall and like tomboys more.

What does Arya have to do with the Vale? And book-Sansa already dreams of Sandor, who's also heading to WF in the show.

6 hours ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

At this point, I'm not sure how Gendry would be able to understand her in the same way Jon could. Although, he too could help her heal her psychological wounds.

Actually Gendry has been the one who was with her in the Riverlands, and he's mad enough in Brienne's chapter that indicates he's angry with anyone who might harm her or might have harmed her. And Gendry and Arya start to finish each other's sentences too after HH.

In the show they have him surprisingly talk how he hates the Lannisters who killed his father, even though he never really knew his father nor had any bond with him, in a very nice parallel almost to the cold open of Arya addressing the Freys as Walder. Heck, they both hate Cersei.

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56 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Show-Gendry had one taste too many with a red-head. She leeched him, freaked him out so much Davos can't even find him in brothels and taverns. Sansa's not the same girl anymore as she once was, but Gendry very much seems to fall and like tomboys more.

What does Arya have to do with the Vale? And book-Sansa already dreams of Sandor, who's also heading to WF in the show.

Actually Gendry has been the one who was with her in the Riverlands, and he's mad enough in Brienne's chapter that indicates he's angry with anyone who might harm her or might have harmed her. And Gendry and Arya start to finish each other's sentences too after HH.

In the show they have him surprisingly talk how he hates the Lannisters who killed his father, even though he never really knew his father nor had any bond with him, in a very nice parallel almost to the cold open of Arya addressing the Freys as Walder. Heck, they both hate Cersei.

I actually like Show Gendry more than Book Gendry after this season. He seems more assertive, more grounded in what he wants and what he wants to do in life. I loved his banter to Jon. They could be awesome friends, like Ned and Robert style bromance :P 

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7 minutes ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

Do you see Arya married? A lady? I don't know... 

Not saying that Arya will get married, but if she does, it doesn't mean that she will suddenly have a personality change and become submissive and delicate. Ygritte was in love with Jon and she was still herself.

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9 hours ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

I could see a possible love triangle between Jon, Arya, And Gendry. Symbolically, this could mirror the whole Rhaegar, Lyanna, and Robert love triangle. However, the ending could be different since Gendry does not resemble his father in terms of his character. Gendry does not whore and get drunk, so far as I know.

Why this could work is that, for Arya, the tension would be realistic and possible. For her, Gendry would be logical choice, especially if he becomes Lord of the Stormlands - this could help cement an alliance between the Starks and Baratheons. I presume she would be physically attracted to him once she hits puberty. Who wouldn't? Lol.

With Jon, I think the attraction would be on a more more emotional and deeper level, something she would not be able to articulate. They both mirror each other in terms of narrative. Where Jon has died in a physical sense, Arya has almost died in a psychological sense (her identity is on the verge if death). I've always thought of them as different sides of the same coin. Perhaps, since she has this fractured identity, that when she reunites with him, her familial love would be corrupted, into something more romantic, or somewhere in-between.

So, while a relationship with Gendry would be healthy and normal, a transgressive relationship between her and Jon would be unhealthy and frowned upon, one born from tragedy and shared loss. So, in Jon, she could see a way to heal emotionally, get back her Arya identity - while with Gendry, she could see a way to heal in an outward sense in how she perceives the world - if that makes sense. At this point, I'm not sure how Gendry would be able to understand her in the same way Jon could. Although, he too could help her heal her psychological wounds.

I just can't help but see how symbolic such a love triangle would be.  Perhaps, this time, the wolf will choose the stag instead of the dragon?

If George has not scrapped the whole Starkcest plot, I could see him have Jon and Arya developing these forbidden feelings, only to have Jon die in the war against the White Walkers.

Would you mind reading these kind of scenarios involving Arya's romantic future?

No, it actually makes a lot of sense, and I agree with the main points you are mentioning.

I don't think Arya's identity is on the verge of death, though, it's more not her identity but her behaviour in this moment. ALso, she is already physically attracted to Gendry. The psycological connection is strongest with Jon now but what would happen when she sees Gendry again? I don't know, but many times she compares him to JOn, so in a away, there is also psychological connection with him, eventhough it's different. Also, Gendry could understand her perfectly, given that they both experienced horrible things together and he has even seen LSH; but I agree that firstly she would be more attached to Jon on an emotional level, regardless of the nature of these feelings.  I agree, that if the author wanted, they could make them as a conflicted thing. Ultimately, I think the triangle would be resolved into Gendry's part.

SO it's not my ideal sceneario but given the hints that the books still put with Jonrya for the general outline, it could still happen and not be far-fetched, even if I never saw them this way.

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3 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Actually Gendry has been the one who was with her in the Riverlands, and he's mad enough in Brienne's chapter that indicates he's angry with anyone who might harm her or might have harmed her. And Gendry and Arya start to finish each other's sentences too after HH.

In the show they have him surprisingly talk how he hates the Lannisters who killed his father, even though he never really knew his father nor had any bond with him, in a very nice parallel almost to the cold open of Arya addressing the Freys as Walder. Heck, they both hate Cersei.

Yes, that is what I was referring to, there is a strong connection that slowly reminds me of the big one she had with Jon, it's a nice parallel, only that this time these two are not related.

2 hours ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

I actually like Show Gendry more than Book Gendry after this season. He seems more assertive, more grounded in what he wants and what he wants to do in life. I loved his banter to Jon. They could be awesome friends, like Ned and Robert style bromance :P 

I love the Jon-Gendry relationship. That scene was superb.

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1 hour ago, Meera of Tarth said:

No, it actually makes a lot of sense, and I agree with the main points you are mentioning.

I don't think Arya's identity is on the verge of death, though, it's more not her identity but her behaviour in this moment. ALso, she is already physically attracted to Gendry. The psycological connection is strongest with Jon now but what would happen when she sees Gendry again? I don't know, but many times she compares him to JOn, so in a away, there is also psychological connection with him, eventhough it's different. Also, Gendry could understand her perfectly, given that they both experienced horrible things together and he has even seen LSH; but I agree that firstly she would be more attached to Jon on an emotional level, regardless of the nature of these feelings.  I agree, that if the author wanted, they could make them as a conflicted thing. Ultimately, I think the triangle would be resolved into Gendry's part.

SO it's not my ideal sceneario but given the hints that the books still put with Jonrya for the general outline, it could still happen and not be far-fetched, even if I never saw them this way.

When you say Arya is already physically attracted to Gendry, do you mean in a sexual way? Because she is still pre-pubescenct, so she would not be feeling sexual urges at this point in the novel. Once she gets her first period, those sexual feelings might arise. However, we must also consider her state of mind and psychological condition. 

(In the show its different, since they aged her up, and had Gendry taken from her rather than him staying behind out of his own free will - this why they might very will end up together in the show. But, it could be different in the books since there is alot different in their characterisations. Also, we should not expect every endgame relationship in the shows to be the same endgame relationship on the novels)

In Winds of Winter, before reuniting with her family, I don't think Arya knows what love feels like anymore. Her memories of the emotion are most likely fading the more she stays in Braavos, like a ghost she just can't grasp. I can verify this statement through her interaction and assassination of Raff the Sweetling. She crossed a name off her list, but showed no emotion save mild annoyance at the fact that she now had to carry the body down four flight of stairs. She should have been happy, vindicated, even angry. But nothing. That broke my heart.

This is the reason why I wrote that her emotions were "dying". She's losing her natural emotive reactions in favour of artificial emotions that she can manipulate at will. What worries me is her state of mind when she returns To Westeros. What will trigger this event? I think news of Jon Snow's assassination will push her over the edge, force her to leave the Faceless Men and return to murder her enemies in Westeros.

Would her meeting Gendry in Westeros rrally stop her from taking revenge? Would Gendry drop everything and just accompany her on her murderous mission? Doubtful.

Perhaps she returns to Westeros and heads North first, taking care of Walder Fray. And when she reaches Winterfell or Castle Black, she learns that Jon Snow is alive. I think this would shock her to the core. Her need for vengeance would rage against feelings of Hope? Love? Unease? I think these surging feelings will confuse her, and this is the point where familial love could turn romantic. Not that she wanted it to, mind you. This is the only real logical way I could see Starkcest occurring.

I do like Gendry in the show, but I don't see how his character in the books could save Arya from her darkness alone. I just don't see it. She would need to be already healing psychologically for them to begin a proper relationship. I've read posts about how Arya already "loves" Gendry, or will fall in love with hI'm, etc. They cite scenes from the books, but it is all subjective interpretation. A pre-pubescenct girl may "have childish crushes" - many do in real life, but rarely does that crush remain once they may reach into their teenage years - especially when they've been separated for so long and grown into different people. I think the main reason people ship her with Gendry is because he is the only other "attractive" male character that she's meet on her journey that isn't her relative and older than her by five years.

Whether romantic or platonic, I firmly believe - with what evidence I have from the books - that Jon is the one character that can save Arya from the abyss consuming her soul.

This is my opinion.

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37 minutes ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

When you say Arya is already physically attracted to Gendry, do you mean in a sexual way? Because she is still pre-pubescenct, so she would not be feeling sexual urges at this point in the novel. Once she gets her first period, those sexual feelings might arise. However, we must also consider her state of mind and psychological condition. 

Romantic way, and also kind of sexual in a way a pre-teen would find someone attractive. She admires her muscles, and his eyes... @sweetsunray might explain these to you better than I, I've read very good analysis from her in some threads.

What I mean, being a pre-teen doesn't mean she can't experience these things.. Romantic/sexual thoughts could happen at a very young age, even younger than book Arya. 

Quote

(In the show its different, since they aged her up, and had Gendry taken from her rather than him staying behind out of his own free will - this why they might very will end up together in the show. But, it could be different in the books since there is alot different in their characterisations. Also, we should not expect every endgame relationship in the shows to be the same endgame relationship on the novels)

In Winds of Winter, before reuniting with her family, I don't think Arya knows what love feels like anymore. Her memories of the emotion are most likely fading the more she stays in Braavos, like a ghost she just can't grasp. I can verify this statement through her interaction and assassination of Raff the Sweetling. She crossed a name off her list, but showed no emotion save mild annoyance at the fact that she now had to carry the body down four flight of stairs. She should have been happy, vindicated, even angry. But nothing. That broke my heart.

This is the reason why I wrote that her emotions were "dying". She's losing her natural emotive reactions in favour of artificial emotions that she can manipulate at will. What worries me is her state of mind when she returns To Westeros. What will trigger this event? I think news of Jon Snow's assassination will push her over the edge, force her to leave the Faceless Men and return to murder her enemies in Westeros.

Would her meeting Gendry in Westeros rrally stop her from taking revenge? Would Gendry drop everything and just accompany her on her murderous mission? Doubtful.

Perhaps she returns to Westeros and heads North first, taking care of Walder Fray. And when she reaches Winterfell or Castle Black, she learns that Jon Snow is alive. I think this would shock her to the core. Her need for vengeance would rage against feelings of Hope? Love? Unease? I think these surging feelings will confuse her, and this is the point where familial love could turn romantic. Not that she wanted it to, mind you. This is the only real logical way I could see Starkcest occurring.

Arya actually does this to avenge her friend! And she is still Arya Stark, she just wears a masque. Although I agree that she kind of morphes into her new costumes in a very convincing way, that maybe she should abandon tHOBAW the sooner the better.

I think both Gendry and Jon would be a trigger event, although maybe Jon more at this point. But both of them IMHO.

Quote

I do like Gendry in the show, but I don't see how his character in the books could save Arya from her darkness alone. I just don't see it. She would need to be already healing psychologically for them to begin a proper relationship. I've read posts about how Arya already "loves" Gendry, or will fall in love with hI'm, etc. They cite scenes from the books, but it is all subjective interpretation. A pre-pubescenct girl may "have childish crushes" - many do in real life, but rarely does that crush remain once they may reach into their teenage years - especially when they've been separated for so long and grown into different people. I think the main reason people ship her with Gendry is because he is the only other "attractive" male character that she's meet on her journey that isn't her relative and older than her by five years.

Whether romantic or platonic, I firmly believe - with what evidence I have from the books - that Jon is the one character that can save Arya from the abyss consuming her soul.

This is my opinion.

I don't think it's subjective interpretation, it's a fair assumption. Also, about pre-pubescent crushes....A prepubescent girl is also capable of experiencing real one-sided romantic feelings that go beyond the typical crush, and even last years, and this disappear or become a real thing. 

I dunno. Some people might ship them for this reason. But let's be honest, some people like very well- told stories, and this is a good one, with multidimensional characters. It's more about the chemistry and circumstances IMHO, that's the reason why I like them (also because I like the character, I like secondary characters, but sometimes I like couples and I don't like the characters as much in separate ways, so it's more about the story).

Also, why like a story about Arya and someone she has no story with? I don't see the point.

Yep. Jon is gonna play an important part, if not the most important in Arya's third arc, but that doesn't mean he'll be the only one.

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26 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Romantic way, and also kind of sexual in a way a pre-teen would find someone attractive. She admires her muscles, and his eyes... @sweetsunray might explain these to you better than I, I've read very good analysis from her in some threads.

What I mean, being a pre-teen doesn't mean she can't experience these things.. Romantic/sexual thoughts could happen at a very young age, even younger than book Arya. 

Arya actually does this to avenge her friend! And she is still Arya Stark, she just wears a masque. Although I agree that she kind of morphes into her new costumes in a very convincing way, that maybe she should abandon tHOBAW the sooner the better.

I think both Gendry and Jon would be a trigger event, although maybe Jon more at this point. But both of them IMHO.

I don't think it's subjective interpretation, it's a fair assumption. Also, about pre-pubescent crushes....A prepubescent girl is also capable of experiencing real one-sided romantic feelings that go beyond the typical crush, and even last years, and this disappear or become a real thing. 

I dunno. Some people might ship them for this reason. But let's be honest, some people like very well- told stories, and this is a good one, with multidimensional characters. It's more about the chemistry and circumstances IMHO, that's the reason why I like them (also because I like the character, I like secondary characters, but sometimes I like couples and I don't like the characters as much in separate ways, so it's more about the story).

Also, why like a story about Arya and someone she has no story with? I don't see the point.

Yep. Jon is gonna play an important part, if not the most important in Arya's third arc, but that doesn't mean he'll be the only one.

I just want Arya to be whole again, to be loved and to know what loved feels like once more. Lol, I feel like an overprotective brother when it comes to Arya. I scrutinised the hell out of Gendry and Arya's relationship in Book two and three - when first reading, I felt a platonic bond rather than romantic / or potentially romantic. I can see both sides of the arguments, though, for and against. A third argumant that no romantic relationship is necessary to end her final arc, too, makes sense - she is an unconventional heroine. Either way, George will write her narrative in a convincing and natural way.

If romantic love can save her, then I hope she finds that special guy. What scares me is the fact that there is a real possibility that she'll never truly heal. That she'll never truly love someone in a healthy way.

Will she become the tragic hero figure, who dies for her vengeance? Mayhap, but that would break my fragile heart into a thousand pieces.

on a side note, I was basing the whole pre-pubescenct argumant in my own experience. I remember having crushes before I experienced puberty at 12, I remember innocently "exploring" the human body with a female friend my age (this was when I was 5 or 6). This was all curiosity, nothing sexual. I never had sexual thoughts or feelings until puberty hit me like a truck. Unless you've had a different experience than me? I'm curious to know. I don't think normal bodies experience sexual desire before puberty, not unless there is an abnormality. I could be wrong, but I don't think it's common at all. With Arya, when she was observing Gendry, there was no sexual undertones in the writing. I could find none through a textual analysis. This is why I said subjective interpretation.

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2 hours ago, Dawn of Fyre said:

I just want Arya to be whole again, to be loved and to know what loved feels like once more. Lol, I feel like an overprotective brother when it comes to Arya. I scrutinised the hell out of Gendry and Arya's relationship in Book two and three - when first reading, I felt a platonic bond rather than romantic / or potentially romantic. I can see both sides of the arguments, though, for and against. A third argumant that no romantic relationship is necessary to end her final arc, too, makes sense - she is an unconventional heroine. Either way, George will write her narrative in a convincing and natural way.

If romantic love can save her, then I hope she finds that special guy. What scares me is the fact that there is a real possibility that she'll never truly heal. That she'll never truly love someone in a healthy way.

Yes, that's what I want as well, I don't think she is too far from it not being possible.

I don't think she needs a romantic arch, IMO no one needs that arch, it's not because she is an unconventional heroine that it should happen or not happen. Same with the other characters, I think neither of them needs it, and at the same time, all of them can have it. It's a matter of story. If there is a romantic story, it can be developed either way, it is just something more that defines the adventures of a character, and makes it even more multidimensional (not because it's necessary or that not having it doesn't make characters multidimensional, but because it adds another layer to the story of that character, and romance is part of real life).

Don't get me wrong, I think that Arya won't be saved because of a romantic arc. What I was referring to with Gendry it was more of their friendship together and all that they had experienced. However, these experiences, and the process of meeting him again, can also develop their possible romance in an organic way. But it's also true that maybe romantic arcs can "save" characters or make them change their behaviours if this is told in a good way, so I'm not totally against that possibility as well. Whatever it happens, I'm sure Martin will write it so well.

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Will she become the tragic hero figure, who dies for her vengeance? Mayhap, but that would break my fragile heart into a thousand pieces.

It's a possibility, but I don't think it is where her story is going. I think she is far too strong so as not "recover" from that.

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on a side note, I was basing the whole pre-pubescenct argumant in my own experience. I remember having crushes before I experienced puberty at 12, I remember innocently "exploring" the human body with a female friend my age (this was when I was 5 or 6). This was all curiosity, nothing sexual. I never had sexual thoughts or feelings until puberty hit me like a truck. Unless you've had a different experience than me? I'm curious to know. I don't think normal bodies experience sexual desire before puberty, not unless there is an abnormality. I could be wrong, but I don't think it's common at all. With Arya, when she was observing Gendry, there was no sexual undertones in the writing. I could find none through a textual analysis. This is why I said subjective interpretation.

Well, what is sexual? I'm not saying that book Arya has the same thoughts as an adult, but there are many experiences that have nothing to do with actual sexual intercourse or strong sexual desire that can be defined as "sexual" behaviour, that is what I was referring to. For instance, noticing the attractiveness of someone, wanting to hold hands, admiring the smell of someone you like. I had these experiences at a very young age, and I didn't fully understand them at that time, and this was years before my first crush (when you acknowledge there are feelings and I was 9 by then) and eventhough it's not what we normally define as sexual because we are very young, and even it's only related to romantic thoughts with no desire, they happen because we are sexual beings and thus, we feel attracted to others even in an innocent way. I also think that the majority of people fall in the category you are mentioning, but the process is gradual and different depending on the person.

Conversely, some people might experience real sexual thoughts before puberty or not be gradual, and others might not experience them with the same intensity as others even being older or teens. Each person their experiences.

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8 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Show-Gendry had one taste too many with a red-head. She leeched him, freaked him out so much Davos can't even find him in brothels and taverns. Sansa's not the same girl anymore as she once was, but Gendry very much seems to fall and like tomboys more.

I don't think we've seen Gendry "fall" for anyone to the point where we know his type. He was fond of Arya. I think he'd respect her a lot. But when it comes to wanting a wife and children, I can definitely see an attraction to Sansa and an understanding of the political importance of uniting houses. 

I believe Jon will legitimise Gendry. 

8 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

What does Arya have to do with the Vale? And book-Sansa already dreams of Sandor, who's also heading to WF in the show.

Her Aunt used to hold it and now there's no one there but Robin? It needs a strong leader. Arya is perfect. She needs a task to do and I think being in charge of The Knights of the Vale and being her brother's bannermam is very fitting for her. She can't make a career out of killing people forever. She wanted to be a soldier. 

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