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Nerevanin

Is it confirmed that LF sent the assassin in Season 1? [spoilers]

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 I am pretty sure LF is behind it in both book and show. Though, on show more directly and in book more indirect  (setting up dagger and person in a way that he knew what person (Joffrey) would do with it). Just like Neds execution, which I think was LF work, even though Joff passed the sentence (but Joff was easily manipulated if you knew which sides to work with (bloodthirst and sadism)).

 

What do LF gain by Brans death? A possibility to climb the ladder in the chaos to come.

Which he did rather well (Lord Protector of the Vale, working on being same thing for the North via marriage, which could end like his marriage with Lysa).

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5 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

LF's only involvement was lying to Cat and saying the dagger belonged to Tyrion. If there's one thing Baelish knows how to do, it's take advantage of an opportunity. He's not stupid enough to have tried to kill Catelyn's son, besides which he would have to have known weeks in advance that Bran was going to be pushed from a tower. LF is good, but he's not that good. Heck even Varys isn't that good.

I agree. I would totally buy it if he was at Winterfell back then, but he wasn't.

It was one of the Lannisters, Joffrey, fool as he was or the twins since they were the only ones who could profit from it.

LF only took an advantage of this later on by lying. The writers are really underestimating their audience.

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45 minutes ago, plastic throne said:

I agree. I would totally buy it if he was at Winterfell back then, but he wasn't.

It was one of the Lannisters, Joffrey, fool as he was or the twins since they were the only ones who could profit from it.

LF only took an advantage of this later on by lying. The writers are really underestimating their audience.

It wasn't Joffrey in the show, if it was, the showrunners would have addressed it in s4.

This leaves the likely candidates to be the twins or LF. The show has sometimes never directly stated things, but I feel Bran simply pointing out this obvious fact in front of LF's trial is saying it without saying it...Otherwisw why bring it up? 

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It was LF, in the books it makes sense that Joffrey had sent the assassins, 

Quote

Cersei, Tyrion, and Jaime all independently come to the conclusion that it must have been Joffrey, trying to get Robert's respect by proving that he can take bold action (after overhearing Robert say that Bran would be better off dead). And two of them, we see their PoVs at the time, and they're sincere in believing it to be Joffrey. And Cersei and Jaime surely know Joffrey better than anyone else. And it's set up that desperation for Robert's approval is one of Joffrey's central motivations. And Joffrey is one of the smallish number of people who could reasonably had access to the dagger, with most of the others ruled out (e.g., it can't be Cersei because she sincerely believes it was Joffrey, and she's not that crazy, at least not that early on). So, it's almost certainly Joffrey—more than just hinted, but not actually confirmed.

Basically this user summed up the book dagger plot beautifully, LF just did what he does best, he lied and reaped chaos, up to this point he had his own plan to sow hate between Stark/Lannisters, he and Lysa had carried out Jon Arryn´s murder and Lysa had sent the raven blaming it on the Lannisters, Joffrey´s impulse only improved the situation (from LF point of view) im sure that as soon as he heard about the incident he didnt doubted before seizing the moment and putting the blame on Tyrion.. 

in the show they simplify it, skipping Joff´s Daddy issues, having LF as owner of the dagger

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49 minutes ago, Kaguya said:

It wasn't Joffrey in the show, if it was, the showrunners would have addressed it in s4.

This leaves the likely candidates to be the twins or LF. The show has sometimes never directly stated things, but I feel Bran simply pointing out this obvious fact in front of LF's trial is saying it without saying it...Otherwisw why bring it up? 

Which makes it really disappointing that a guy who knew before the King and Queen left KL that one of the Stark kids would end up comatose, and thus be an easy target, has such an unspectacular death.

Not to mention that it makes LF less of a master player. A schemer like him would hire a pro, not some grubby guy off the streets who could mess up his plans. If you're going to be good at being an evil overlord, you need competent minions and goons.

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1 hour ago, Kaguya said:

It wasn't Joffrey in the show, if it was, the showrunners would have addressed it in s4.

This leaves the likely candidates to be the twins or LF. The show has sometimes never directly stated things, but I feel Bran simply pointing out this obvious fact in front of LF's trial is saying it without saying it...Otherwise why bring it up

I honestly have no clue, but as I said many times on this board, writers just don't care. Maybe Bran lied, just another crime hanged on LF's back, who cares right?

The main problem is the information traveling between KL and Winterfell. There's no way LF would send a message to WF saying "yes, kill him, kill the cripple". That's way too risky. Commands like these travel by foot. Which leaves us with him planning it sooner, before Lannisters actually left capitol, before the actual tower accident but that's just far fetched. Like - who in their right mind is gonna kill the host's kid? What could the Lannisters possibly gain by this - ask yourself from Stark's perspective. Or imagine them caught the assassin rather than killing him and he speaks. This is far too risky for LF for me to believe it was him.

Had to be someone really dumb and/or desperate, my bets will alway be on Joffrey or Cersei, both books and show.

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2 minutes ago, plastic throne said:

I honestly have no clue, but as I said many times on this board, writers just don't care. Maybe Bran lied, just another crime hanged on LF's back, who cares right?

The main problem is the information traveling between KL and Winterfell. There's no way LF would send a message to WF saying "yes, kill him, kill the cripple". That's way too risky. Commands like these travel by foot. Which leaves us with him planning it sooner, before Lannisters actually left capitol, before the actual tower accident but that's just far fetched. Like - who in their right mind is gonna kill the host's kid? What could the Lannisters possibly gain by this - ask yourself from Stark's perspective. Or imagine them caught the assassin rather than killing him and he speaks. This is far too risky for LF for me to believe it was him.

Had to be someone really dumb and/or desperate, my bets will alway be on Joffrey or Cersei, both books and show.

Joffrey is already ruled out of the show for the above reasons. 

 

Why would Cersei use LF's dagger though? Like da fuq? Your point about the risk is spot on...But remember it's D&D..We have to accept the information we are given and move on. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Kaguya said:

It wasn't Joffrey in the show, if it was, the showrunners would have addressed it in s4.

This leaves the likely candidates to be the twins or LF. The show has sometimes never directly stated things, but I feel Bran simply pointing out this obvious fact in front of LF's trial is saying it without saying it...Otherwisw why bring it up? 

In the books Joffrey said something like that he is familiar to valyrian steel when he got Widow's Wail from Tywin at his wedding.

This was the point when Tyrion got the hint, that Joffrey was the man who sent the assassin to kill bran.

In the show D&D cancled this sentence becaus they thought the viewers can't link this to the failed assassination of bran in S01.

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4 minutes ago, Marlom said:

In the books Joffrey said something like that he is familiar to valyrian steel when he got Widow's Wail from Tywin at his wedding.

This was the point when Tyrion got the hint, that Joffrey was the man who sent the assassin to kill bran.

In the show D&D cancled this sentence becaus they thought the viewers can't link this to the failed assassination of bran in S01.

...So thus deviating and changing the person who sent the assassin? 

 

If they wanted to be true to the books, they could have done it in other ways. 

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A youtuber, Preston Jacobs, talks a lot about how it doesn't make sense that its Joffery in the books and raises some good points, with Tyrions logic making no sense and him misremembering things. 

In the show however it kind of comes across as a dropped plot point, they definitely didn't get explicit even if them saying it was LF's dagger implies he hired the assassin. The funny thing is in the show he actually explicitly says its his dagger when talking to Cat, granted he then says he lost it to Tyrion.

 

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On 8/29/2017 at 1:28 AM, Mikkel said:

This. If all Littlefinger had done was conspire to set two great houses at each other's throats, that could well be enough in and of itself - though it would depend on a lot of things.

In this case, where the culprit is in the power of the house that came out (much) the worse for wear in the conflict (the Starks were, possibly still are, teetering on the brink of extinction), and where said house is currently run by the daughter of the man Littlefinger got killed, and who has suffered personally because of Littlefinger's machinations, it was definitely more than enough.

Littlefinger deserved death many times over. Add to that that he was just caught with his proverbial pants down trying to get one sister to kill the other - well, it was a sham trial, but a just verdict. I sat there like "just kill him already before the slimy bastard talks his way out of it!". Thankfully, Arya had had just enough of his sniveling ways, too.

Who cares about knives, I love your wheel.  It's making me a little dizzy, but I love it. 

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8 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Who cares about knives, I love your wheel.  It's making me a little dizzy, but I love it. 

Yes, breaking the wheel is a bigger job than it may seem ;)

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6 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Yes, breaking the wheel is a bigger job than it may seem ;)

I've noticed, she won't much tell us what she is replacing the wheel with, and I'm not talking incest babies. 

Really, though, your avi is great. 

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No, it confirms what we already knew that he tried to frame Tyrion. As for who sent it I find it hard to believe for Littlefinger all the way in kingslanding to send a dagger for someone in Winterfell to kill Bran. It would be to risky and he wouldn't have the time to pull this off. Littlefinger is an opportunist who thrives in these moments.  

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12 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

And yet the author has said he's pretty sure we have all the info we need to figure it out. To pin it on anyone other than Joffrey would require more info.

Joff is a teenaged boy, a spoiled brat, and an idiot. He does not need sophisticated or well-thought-out motivations for anything.

I'm not familiar with this particuler quote of GRRM and when he said it but imo, saying clearly at least twice in the books that two characters think it that was Joffrey doesn't really correspond to "we have enough info to figure it out". If it was really Joffrey and two characters think so, that the way to adress it is "it's already solved", not "figure it out". Just an opinion.

 

11 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

His motivation being that he worshipped Robert and overheard him suggest it would be a mercy for Bran to die?  

Seems reasonable to me.  Besides, we found out he was planning all kinds of murders behind the scenes. 

Well... by all kinds I mean trying to kill Tyrion, but still.  

Would you mind elaborate how Joffrey wanted to kill Tyrion? (I don't doubt you, I just don't remember everything...)

When it comes to Joffrey's motive, would you read my reply just below to falcotron (so I don't have to write it all again)?

 

6 hours ago, falcotron said:

It was Robert who said it would be more merciful to be dead than a cripple.

And, while it's pretty likely that Joffrey did enjoy the idea of planning a murder, and had a sick sense of what mercy means, as you say, Jaime thought his main motivation was proving himself to Robert. Joffrey got very little attention from Robert, and most of what he got was being called a useless tool; he wanted to show that he could do something difficult but necessary, and was twisted enough to think that's how Robert would take it.

In Davos 6, ASOS, Stannis remembers that years ago Joffrey brutally killed a cat and when Robert found out about it, he got really mad and beat Joffrey because of it. So Joffrey knows that he won't gain any recognition from Robert by doing brutal things or killing creatures. Why kill Bran then? And even if he wanted to kill him then, why he would remain silent about it if he thought it would gain him respect from Robert?

 

10 hours ago, LucyMormont said:

He wasn't there, but in the books at least, he undoubtely had some agent (for lack of a better word) hidden among the King's party
That is stablished in the books, because the letter that Cat receives from his sister Lissa, does not arrive via raven as in the show, but appears misteriously inside a box that Maester Luwin finds on a table in his chambers/office. So, the person who put it there must have been in  the King's entourage, or have entered  Winterfell as so, and that person was working for Littlefinger

A good point!

 

10 hours ago, enoofu said:

Agreed since LF would have nothing to gain with Bran murder attempt

LF already did a few things to cause tension between the Starks and the Lannisters - he had Lysa murder Jon Arryn and send a letter to Cat blaming the murder on the Lannisters. If we accept that he had an agent in Winterfell and that agent sent him a word about Bran's fall, he could use this and order Bran's murder  which would hint that Bran's fall wasn't an accident. And Bran's fall happened when the evil Lannisters were in Winterfell, so it can be understood as the evil Lannisters wanting to finish what they started.

 

3 hours ago, Rhollo said:

And send his valyrian steel dagger all the way from KL to WF to be used in the crime? Why?

He didn't send it there and it wasn't his at the time. It used to be his but later he lost it to king Robert. Tyrion or Jaime imo correctly guess that the dagger was among tons of other daggers that Robert had with while travelling to WF. Ordering his supposed agent in Wintefell to use the dagger, LF made sure that the dagger gets a lot of attention. Valyrian steel daggers don't grow on trees.

 

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26 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

He didn't send it there and it wasn't his at the time. It used to be his but later he lost it to king Robert. Tyrion or Jaime imo correctly guess that the dagger was among tons of other daggers that Robert had with while travelling to WF. Ordering his supposed agent in Wintefell to use the dagger, LF made sure that the dagger gets a lot of attention. Valyrian steel daggers don't grow on trees.

That would imply that LF not only set up the assassination attempt but also somehow made sure that it failed so that the weapon can end up in the Starks hands and gain attention due to its uniqueness.

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2 hours ago, Kaguya said:

Joffrey is already ruled out of the show for the above reasons.

Why would Cersei use LF's dagger though? Like da fuq? Your point about the risk is spot on...But remember it's D&D..We have to accept the information we are given and move on.

I guess... Still disappointed though...

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On 28.8.2017 at 7:29 PM, McAssey said:

I think it means LF sent the assassin and then pinned it on Tyrion in order to stir up some chaos.  But they weren't very clear about it.

So Littlefinger took his jetpack to fly to Winterfell from Kings Landing and back - just to hire the worst assassin he could find. Makes complete sense since it's the tv show.

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1 hour ago, Rhollo said:

That would imply that LF not only set up the assassination attempt but also somehow made sure that it failed so that the weapon can end up in the Starks hands and gain attention due to its uniqueness.

He could simply order the assassin to leave the dagger behind if he suceeded in killing Bran.

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7 hours ago, Kaguya said:

No, go back to the dialogue again. They are clearly referring to the fall 

 

'he said nothing, he remembers nothing' - > he was awake when he was pushed 

 

'What if he woke up and told them what he saw' -> Which is what he saw before being pushed.

I don't agree.  We have that scene which takes places a significant time after the fall, and the murder attempt is recent.

The only two people in Westeros concerned with Bran alive are Cersei and Jamie.  At WF they show their concern.  Of the two, Jamie is more concerned, like when they sit with Tyrion at the breakfast table at WF.   So Jamie has motive and drive.

The assassin is a soldier.  Jamie is in charge of solders, he has command powers.

The assassin carries a blade that belongs to Lannisters.

So not only is the scene at KL and the admission timely, the circumstances are there, and the motive and drive are there.

 

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