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Khal Al

Blue Flame of Viserion.

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On 08/29/2017 at 10:07 AM, FireWinds said:

It's definitely cold. The dragon died. Froze. The Whole basis of the White Walkers is ice.

Everything is cold, everything is icy, everything is dead.

How the hell does the dragon then breathe HOTTER fire than ever before? That's just pure nonsense. 

It is cold. 

I agree with this. We know that wights are reanimated by ice based magic. We also know that fire and fire based magic (e.g. what red priests use) is anathema to creatures that were reanimated by ice based magic. It kills them instantly. Fire is associated with life, so I can't see why Viserion would be breathing fire. I think he spat out powerful blasts of magical ice that shattered the magical wards on the Wall and the physical structure of the Wall simultaneously.

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The only thing that makes sense is for it to be cold. If it is hot and he's used as a weapon of war, he wouldn't leave behind wight-able bodies for the NK to grow his army.

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8 minutes ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

Fire kills wighs

Viserion is a wigh

Visirion breaths fire????

:wacko:

If it is cold... how did it melt the wall?

I don't think it's entirely clear if he's a wight or a White Walker. He has eyes like a white walker (blue with icy flecks/sparkles) and was raised by a White Walker's touch (like Craster's boys). White Walkers appear to be impervious to fire. If he's a wight, the other dragons would make quick work of him. That wouldn't be very narratively satisfying.

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You guys are really thinking too much about it. It's blue because it looks cooler and because blue is the color of the WW's magic. Nothing more.

Of course it's not cold. How could it be?

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5 hours ago, ppjones said:

I don't think it's entirely clear if he's a wight or a White Walker. He has eyes like a white walker (blue with icy flecks/sparkles) and was raised by a White Walker's touch (like Craster's boys). White Walkers appear to be impervious to fire. If he's a wight, the other dragons would make quick work of him. That wouldn't be very narratively satisfying.

I don't think would make sense that he is a WW because he was supposedly dead when the NK touched him. And I have an impression that to become a WW you need to be a baby....

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I think the fact that Viserion is rotting tells us he's a wight raised by the nights king. The wights have blue eyes too. Someone in the party ranging behind the wall asks if polar bears have blue eyes.

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On 8/30/2017 at 6:40 AM, falcotron said:

It's actually both at the same time. Hotter than normal dragonfire, and also nearly as cold as absolute zero.

Viserion is the song of ice and fire, not Jon.

He's also the PtwP. (Remember, the original Valyrian is not "prince", it's "dragon".)

He's also Lightbringer, and the Night King is AAR.

I agree Viserion is the song of Ice and Fire, and Lightbringer.

I don´t think he is the PtwP, though. The Valyrians mistranslated the original prophecy, which originated at the Lands of Always Winter. The proper prophecy is about The Moron that was Promised, a clear reference to Jon, who in his stupidity gifted Our Saviour with Lightbringer.

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6 hours ago, Armand Gargalen said:

I agree Viserion is the song of Ice and Fire, and Lightbringer.

I don´t think he is the PtwP, though. The Valyrians mistranslated the original prophecy, which originated at the Lands of Always Winter. The proper prophecy is about The Moron that was Promised, a clear reference to Jon, who in his stupidity gifted Our Saviour with Lightbringer.

I think Jon is the Last Hero. The Last Hero has a long quest to meet the Children, and all of his companions die and join the good guys along the way (which is what makes him a Hero).

So far, Jon only got Thoros, a half-dozen redshirts, and one dragon killed, but his quest is not over yet.

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I kind of think Bran is The Last Hero. All of his party died, including a 'dog', except Meera who left. Granted, he sent her away...All of this assumes there even is another Last Hero. 

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1 minute ago, jandslegate said:

I kind of think Bran is The Last Hero. All of his party died, including a 'dog', except Meera who left.

It's not perfect—it was never the right number, they didn't all die or leave before he met the Children, and I doubt he's going to be building the Night Watch to use what he learned from the Children to win the Battle for the Dawn.

But there are definitely a lot of parallels, and that has to be intentional.

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3 minutes ago, falcotron said:

It's not perfect—it was never the right number, they didn't all die or leave before he met the Children, and I doubt he's going to be building the Night Watch to use what he learned from the Children to win the Battle for the Dawn.

But there are definitely a lot of parallels, and that has to be intentional.

Yeah, Martin is so vague on prophecies. I often wonder if he intends on leaving them unresolved and just left for speculation. In a way, it's brilliant not to resolve the mystery. I mean, look at Highlander and then Highlander 2 or Star Wars and the midichlorians. Sometimes it better not to give away the trick, I guess. 

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12 minutes ago, jandslegate said:

Yeah, Martin is so vague on prophecies. I often wonder if he intends on leaving them unresolved and just left for speculation. In a way, it's brilliant not to resolve the mystery. I mean, look at Highlander and then Highlander 2 or Star Wars and the midichlorians. Sometimes it better not to give away the trick, I guess. 

I think some of the prophecies will be completely cleared up, some may be definitively debunked, and others may be left open for speculation.

Compare it with the various "fairy tale" stories we heard in the first few books. It seems like all of Old Nan's are actually true, and not that hard to interpret once you know what they're about, but the rest are a mixed bag. Others exist; giants exist; snarks don't; ice spiders… we don't know yet, but probably will by the end of the story.

Anyway, I don't remember anything at all about Highlander 2 except that I'm pretty sure that I did see it when it came out. Which probably proves your point. :)

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On 8/29/2017 at 10:48 AM, Lady Noble said:

Remember high school chem class? The Bunsen burner? The blue part was actually the HOTTEST part of the flame.The red part was the "weak" part. I think that's what it was trying to show. How ice can get SO cold it burns, but fire can't get so hot it freezes.

https://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/72730/can-a-liquid-turn-to-a-solid-by-applying-pressure/72732

In theory with the right temp/pressure combo you can turn a liquid into a solid by increasing temp&pressure.  But, the pressure is the key.  Since some things such as dry ice don't have a liquid form you can for a gas into a solid even.  

Sorry for the Nerd response, but I figured you brought up the Bunsen burner and would appreciate it.

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On 8/29/2017 at 10:17 AM, Fearodh said:

I agree that it should be cold. But then I kinda dont get why the wall would be affected so heavily by it...

It was so much colder than the wall that, coupled with the ceaseless force and flow of the flame (ice?), the wall shattered and fell. Makes sense in a way.

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11 minutes ago, UnViserion said:

It was so much colder than the wall that, coupled with the ceaseless force and flow of the flame (ice?), the wall shattered and fell. Makes sense in a way.

I also believe there was some magic involved, since the flame came from a turned dragon, an element of fire magic. Otherwise the NK could've managed this some other way.

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