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norwaywolf123

Future of the dothraki

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Considering they are the bulk of the total army against the army of the dead, I assume a lot will die, though they are great fighters. I imagine a lot of them will survive though and fight in any war that comes at the end between whoever survives/vs the Golden Company. They follow Daenerys and have done so over the poison waters on wooden horses, so staying in Westeros and not pillaging and raping is not out of the question. Plus I assume, like she did with the Iron Born, Daenerys told them to stop that practise. I assume those who remain will settle down and form a part of Westeros. If Dany wins and sits on the throne and everything, I see them being part of the Crowns army where people can decide to be a part of the Dothraki or Unsullied. If she is still alive then they will continue to follow her as usual, maybe even running a proper city. If Dany dies, and someone like Jon or Sansa rules, then I see them ruling a region as thanks for their help, creating a merged culture kind of thing, which would be cool. 

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11 hours ago, TwiceBorn said:

I take there is quite a lot space in Westeros already - 5/7 kingdoms are almost extinct according to show.

Well the winter is longer then a year then theriverlands are pretty much done for since the lannisters and some of the stark forces burned everything and all the food they had stored. I would say at most a quarter of them will survive the famine

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They're going to make great peasants.  

Eventually.  

If the don't go crazy due to the lack of a grass something-or-other sea in Westeros.  

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37 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

What's up with the Stormlands because I can't help but think Gendry will fight to protect it from Euron and the Golden Showers.  

:excl: ugghh..

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8 hours ago, Hajk1984 said:

The Mongols were able to settle in with local customs of many conquered territories.

But the Dothraki really aren't much like the Mongols at all.

The Mongols ruled the cities their conquered, or left the native rulers in place underneath them, except when they really needed to send a message. They even built new cities. They encouraged trade and vigorously defended it against bandits. And so on. They made their empire as prosperous as possible because they understood that there's a lot more profit taking tribute from rich vassals than poor ones or dead ones.

The Dothraki, on the other hand, can't even look at a city without burning it down and salting the earth to make sure nobody ever lives there again. They can't see a trade caravan without sacking it and taking all the merchants as slaves. They're about as anti-civilization as possible.

Also, there's a big difference between, say, becoming Emperor of China and you and your new ruling class gradually adopting Chinese customs vs. becoming a bunch of new subjects of the Han Emperor and being forced to adopt Chinese customs.

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5 hours ago, falcotron said:

But the Dothraki really aren't much like the Mongols at all.

The Mongols ruled the cities their conquered, or left the native rulers in place underneath them, except when they really needed to send a message. They even built new cities. They encouraged trade and vigorously defended it against bandits. And so on. They made their empire as prosperous as possible because they understood that there's a lot more profit taking tribute from rich vassals than poor ones or dead ones.

The Dothraki, on the other hand, can't even look at a city without burning it down and salting the earth to make sure nobody ever lives there again. They can't see a trade caravan without sacking it and taking all the merchants as slaves. They're about as anti-civilization as possible.

Also, there's a big difference between, say, becoming Emperor of China and you and your new ruling class gradually adopting Chinese customs vs. becoming a bunch of new subjects of the Han Emperor and being forced to adopt Chinese customs.

Yes that was the Mongols once they became the conquerors that Genghis Khan turned them into after uniting all the factions in Mongolia. In the show the role of Genghis Khan is apparently being played by Dany (at least in terms of uniting and conquering). She is quite ready to leave rulers in place (e.g. offerring Jon the position of Warden etc.) if they bend the knee.

 

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1 minute ago, Hajk1984 said:

Yes that was the Mongols once they became the conquerors that Genghis Khan turned them into after uniting all the factions in Mongolia. In the show the role of Genghis Khan is apparently being played by Dany (at least in terms of uniting and conquering). She is quite ready to leave rulers in place (e.g. offerring Jon the position of Warden etc.) if they bend the knee.

The Dothraki turned a third of Essos into a vast empty wasteland, plus most of another third except for a handful of city-states around the coasts, by destroying everything they came across and making sure nobody can ever settle there again.

The Mongols never did anything remotely like that, and they would have found it as horrifying, and as stupid, as anyone in Europe would have. Long before Genghis Khan, they were trading and negotiating with the Tatars, Jin Chinese, etc., not just fighting wars with them.

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6 minutes ago, falcotron said:

The Dothraki turned a third of Essos into a vast empty wasteland, plus most of another third except for a handful of city-states around the coasts, by destroying everything they came across and making sure nobody can ever settle there again.

The Mongols never did anything remotely like that, and they would have found it as horrifying, and as stupid, as anyone in Europe would have. Long before Genghis Khan, they were trading and negotiating with the Tatars, Jin Chinese, etc., not just fighting wars with them.

Yeah I don't have an exact parallel if that's what you're arguing. I'm just trying to make conjectures based on cultures that seem to be in the same vicinity. But I'm no anthropologist or historian.

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The Dothraki are to the Mongols what the Ironborn are to the Vikings: A gross caricature with very little connection to the real-life thing.

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On 8/29/2017 at 2:39 PM, RhaenysB said:

They'll go north without hats and they will be as fast and as terrain-savvy as Gendry as first timers in the north. They'll die fighting the dead. Those who survive, if they do will settle down in Westeros and be forgotten in the next scene. Pillaging and leading a nomadic life will never cross their minds again, because they saw a naked chick survive a fire so they will be content with farming and voting for a Targaryen every 4 years for the next ten generations. Because that's how civilizations change, kids. 

Good point.

It is actually worrying what Daenerys this to this people. She took them out of their natural environment to fight a war for her claim in another continent. So amazingly humanitarian...

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22 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

I imagine the dothraki warriors and some horde followers will venture northward, and the remaining umarmed dothraki will suffer greatly for this.

Maybe the reach will become the western dothraki sea?

They can be moved into the number of completely abandoned castles (Storm's End, Riverrun, High Garden, Harrenhal, etc). Nobody runs or inhabits those as far as the show is concerned. 

19 hours ago, Hajk1984 said:

LOLOL the show really is dropping the ball on so many things here. I wonder if Martin will do so.

The Mongols were able to settle in with local customs of many conquered territories. However, if Dany is somehow the new Genghis Khan (naked fire-proof chicks who ride dragons apparently become that) who has united all the hordes into a great one, the question of how their customs are to be managed is still important. The show has ignored all of this. All we get is Jorah mentioning that there are 100,000 Dothraki warriors. So Dany has an invincible army and an air force. Got it, she's militarily invincible unless fighting the Night's King. But the show ignores the problems that would come with this arrangement.

Yeah and it's partly understandable because the show has limited time and limited methods to address certain questions. Of course if they could prioritize well, they would be able to allocate screentime to topics that are worth discussing, rather than to nonsensical Winterfell scenes that have no purpose other than fucking up continuity even more than it is already fucked up. 

3 hours ago, Armand Gargalen said:

Good point.

It is actually worrying what Daenerys this to this people. She took them out of their natural environment to fight a war for her claim in another continent. So amazingly humanitarian...

They choose to follow her. Of course it would be realistic and natural for them to question this choice when facing new challenges (crossing the narrow sea, not having sufficient clothing for colder climate, etc), but the show doesn't discuss this. I wish I could say it's probably a conscious decision, but it's more likely that it never even crossed d&d's mind that this is a realistic issue. 

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GRRM is a pretty pro-Globalization and multiculturalism dude in his personal life. I expect the surviving Dothraki of the war will eventually integrate into Westeros as the First Men and Andals did before them

I doubt the show will tackle this though so it's up the books to really go over the details of how that will work

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4 hours ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

GRRM is a pretty pro-Globalization and multiculturalism dude in his personal life. I expect the surviving Dothraki of the war will eventually integrate into Westeros as the First Men and Andals did before them

The Andals integrated into Westeros by conquering and subjugating two thirds of the people, replacing their language and religion. The First Men just killed all the Children. The Rhoynar are probably a better example for your case than the ones you gave, but the Rhoynar came from a civilization that was probably in many ways more advanced than Westeros.

If GRRM wanted to send a multicultural message, he would have created a culture that's actually like the Mongols or the Plains Indians (his main inspirations), or any other realistic human culture. Then they could plausibly be assimilated, and bring new ideas into Westerosi culture as they did so. Instead, he created an anti-culture that destroys all civilization it comes into contact with. Showing them assimilating without a problem would make a mockery of the idea of multiculturalism, rather than supporting it, and I really hope he doesn't go that way.

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4 hours ago, Commander Jon Snow said:

GRRM is a pretty pro-Globalization and multiculturalism dude in his personal life. I expect the surviving Dothraki of the war will eventually integrate into Westeros as the First Men and Andals did before them

I doubt the show will tackle this though so it's up the books to really go over the details of how that will work

I doubt we'll ever get the last book(s) anyway but after ASOS I believe GRRM was going to have pretty much a whole novel dedicated to the aftermath of the Others invasion (and presumably defeat) but that idea was scrapped.  The novel was going to be called A Time for Wolves.

But I would really hope that if by some miracle we do end up there that he bothers to explain how the Dothraki will integrate over the coming generations.  In reality the Dothraki are just a plot device to give Dany an army.

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18 hours ago, falcotron said:

But the Dothraki really aren't much like the Mongols at all.

The Mongols ruled the cities their conquered, or left the native rulers in place underneath them, except when they really needed to send a message. They even built new cities. They encouraged trade and vigorously defended it against bandits. And so on. They made their empire as prosperous as possible because they understood that there's a lot more profit taking tribute from rich vassals than poor ones or dead ones.

The Dothraki, on the other hand, can't even look at a city without burning it down and salting the earth to make sure nobody ever lives there again. They can't see a trade caravan without sacking it and taking all the merchants as slaves. They're about as anti-civilization as possible.

Also, there's a big difference between, say, becoming Emperor of China and you and your new ruling class gradually adopting Chinese customs vs. becoming a bunch of new subjects of the Han Emperor and being forced to adopt Chinese customs.

well the dothraki actually do often take tributes from cities. This is stated more in the books but the free cities will often pay the dothraki that go by to leave them alone. So basically that is like tribute in a way or at least blackmail. That said  the mongols under genghis khan and his sons were completly different then  the dothraki in so many ways.

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I think Dany will let them make a settlement somewhere in Westeros. Maybe Done or the Reach seeing as they befit the climate the Dothraki are used to but Dany might want them close to her. It seems they are already slightly assimilating- if you look at their attire in 707 quite a few of them are wearing furs, long drapery type clothing and leather skirts similar to Dany.

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