Let's talk about Cersei !

[Hoo]

Did Euron squeeze in an elopement proposal to Dany in front of Cersei, and both were like whatever man!

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

45 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

Which begs the question what is her endgoal. How does she plan to defeat all her enemies, including the dead. Despite her craziness, she must have some plan in mind, no matter how crazy.

To continue to sit on the iron throne with all her enemies dead.  At this point she is banking on her living enemies taking out the dead ones.  If so she finishes what's left of them off, if not they are fucked anyway.  Being the Queen of the 7 kingdoms is more important to her than living.  

[Error-504]

The only way Cersei's plan works is if Dany and Jon defeat the WW's and are left severely crippled in doing so. Fro m her standpoint this is her best chance, and I can't say I disagree with her. Cersei had every intention of agreeing to the armistice from the get go, but knew in order to sell it, she had to extract something from Dany in return. When Jon failed to accpet her proposal, this left her scrambling to plan b, which was a risk, but one she knew she had to take. 

[falcotron]

12 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

The only way Cersei's plan works is if Dany and Jon defeat the WW's and are left severely crippled in doing so. Fro m her standpoint this is her best chance, and I can't say I disagree with her. Cersei had every intention of agreeing to the armistice from the get go, but knew in order to sell it, she had to extract something from Dany in return. When Jon failed to accpet her proposal, this left her scrambling to plan b, which was a risk, but one she knew she had to take. 

I think she expected that Jon might well reject her proposal. Both Plan A and Plan B were planned in advance, and neither one was much of a risk.

The North's meager armies wouldn't be a very big factor in the war between Dany and Cersei, and that'll probably be even more true after they're likely in the front lines of the Great War. She didn't make the demand because she actually needed Jon to say yes.

She made the demand just so they'd see her making a demand. That makes it more believable as something she would do. If he says no, she can't back down without first making them work extra hard to convince her, but she's prepared to do that; hell, she probably enjoyed it.

[Theon_is_Azor]

Nah. As mentioned above, her plan was always to turncoat. Euron left before Jon denied her. And in fact, Cersei tried to get him to leave even earlier. That entire thing was just a bit of reconnaissance for Cersei. She wanted to see the dragons, the dragon lady, Jon Snow, and her brother. If she had had the upper hand, she would have tried to have the mountain kill them, but the hound put a kink in those plans. So Euron immediately started looking for a way out of there. To go get help.

[FoyeTwenty Boston]

Cersei the character is just boring now. Lena Headey does an outstanding job but she has no arc. It doesn't have to be a redemptive arc, I would just like some evolution as a charater. Every time you think Cersei might grow and move along some type of arc she digs in her heals and regresses. I thought she might evolve after the Walk of the Shame but no, she just got zombie Mountain. I thought she might evolve after Tommen. I hoped maybe she was going to get on board with the save the world plan, but nope, typical Lannister backstab city. I just think her shtick of being a bad guy for bad guys sake is boring now. The only time Cersei is remotely interesting is when you get those flickers of emotion from time to time that Headey acts outstanding. I dunno. Cersei is just plain and simply boring. 

[We Pay Our Debts]

6 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Competent?  She is insane.  Completely fucking mad.  

I meant in comparison to her Book counterpart. At least in the show, she doesn't tell the Iron Bank to go eff themselves or make some random guy the Master of ships because he looks like Rhaegar. Her level of stupidity in AFFC made me cringe like never before. 

[Nikki Pat]

2 hours ago, Error-504 said:

The only way Cersei's plan works is if Dany and Jon defeat the WW's and are left severely crippled in doing so. Fro m her standpoint this is her best chance, and I can't say I disagree with her. Cersei had every intention of agreeing to the armistice from the get go, but knew in order to sell it, she had to extract something from Dany in return. When Jon failed to accpet her proposal, this left her scrambling to plan b, which was a risk, but one she knew she had to take. 

That's actually a huge risk to be taking. But note that in the show she did say that the wrights can be burnt so I guess her ultimate defense would be to use wildfire to destroy the undead if the North and Dany falls. Jon never did mentioned the Whitewalker's weaknesses, so maybe she's lumping everything in the same category.

The million dollar question/s: Would wildfire be sufficient to destroy a white walker and the undead dragon?

[Error-504]

2 hours ago, falcotron said:

I think she expected that Jon might well reject her proposal. Both Plan A and Plan B were planned in advance, and neither one was much of a risk.

The North's meager armies wouldn't be a very big factor in the war between Dany and Cersei, and that'll probably be even more true after they're likely in the front lines of the Great War. She didn't make the demand because she actually needed Jon to say yes.

She made the demand just so they'd see her making a demand. That makes it more believable as something she would do. If he says no, she can't back down without first making them work extra hard to convince her, but she's prepared to do that; hell, she probably enjoyed it.

I am not going to pretend that Jon's forces are comparable to Dany's, but to dismiss them as trivial is a mistake. This isn't a BOB scenario, as Jon now commands the entire North as well as the Vale. This includes forces that were against him in the BotB (umbers/karstarks) as well as those that remained neutral, plus the Wildlings and the Vale. They are a battle hardened ally, and they control a huge amount of land. 

[Error-504]

17 minutes ago, Nikki Pat said:

That's actually a huge risk to be taking. But note that in the show she did say that the wrights can be burnt so I guess her ultimate defense would be to use wildfire to destroy the undead if the North and Dany falls. Jon never did mentioned the Whitewalker's weaknesses, so maybe she's lumping everything in the same category.

The million dollar question/s: Would wildfire be sufficient to destroy a white walker and the undead dragon?

Not going to say it isn't a risk, but what are here other options? Bend the knee to Dany? From Cersei's standpoint its her only chance to win. 

[MinscS2]

2 hours ago, FoyeTwenty Boston said:

Cersei the character is just boring now. Lena Headey does an outstanding job but she has no arc.

Agreed. Like all Chaotic Evil characters, she has become a snorefest.
Lena Headey is amazing, but I'm surprised at the amount of fans who like Cersei the character.
She's so incredibly one-dimensional at this point that it hurts.
 

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

2 hours ago, FoyeTwenty Boston said:

Cersei the character is just boring now. Lena Headey does an outstanding job but she has no arc. It doesn't have to be a redemptive arc, I would just like some evolution as a charater. Every time you think Cersei might grow and move along some type of arc she digs in her heals and regresses. I thought she might evolve after the Walk of the Shame but no, she just got zombie Mountain. I thought she might evolve after Tommen. I hoped maybe she was going to get on board with the save the world plan, but nope, typical Lannister backstab city. I just think her shtick of being a bad guy for bad guys sake is boring now. The only time Cersei is remotely interesting is when you get those flickers of emotion from time to time that Headey acts outstanding. I dunno. Cersei is just plain and simply boring. 

I disagree.  I think she has an arc.  She is driven deeper and deeper into madness like Aerys.  Some is due to the same reasons Aerys was and I said it earlier but I think most of her issues stem from not having a mother, hating her little brother for that, Maggie the frog's prophecy and it being 100 percent accurate so far, not getting to marry Rhaegar (how cool is it going to be when Cersei realizes the husband of her dreams didn't want her, and neither did her first actual husband, and then realize they both loved Lyanna Stark) and then her Daddy issues.  Her father treating her like she is a piece of meat when she feels she was the only Lannister child who gave a damn about furthering the power and greatness of House Lannister.  Now she has essentially gone mad like Aerys, and she really did when she had her Aerys moment and "burned them all".  not to mention putting her stock people who will sell her out the second they feel she will lose, like Aerys did with Tywin.  Her character is that of one who at every turn makes the worst decision to ensure the legacy her father envisioned, and just digs herself deeper and deeper in madness and puts the game of thrones (you win or you die) ahead of the game of don't go extinct, which is incredibly stupid.  

[falcotron]

You know what would have been really clever for Cersei? Play everything exactly the way she did—and then don't reveal the secret to Jaime at the end. Send him off to lead the remnants of the Lannister army to the Wall, just as he pledged to do, expecting Euron to show up when he gets there, just as everyone else does, and then do her backstab with Euron as late as possible, without giving Jaime any advance notice.

Not just because the backstab would obviously work better if kept secret longer (and because Jaime would be inadvertently helping to convince Dany of Cersei's sincerity), but also because it's always easier for Cersei to get forgiveness from Jaime than permission. He'll accept anything she's done if it's a fait accompli. So, no risk of Jaime spilling the beans early, no need to contemplate the horrible choice of sending the Mountain to kill him…

Sure, this would probably end up with Jaime as a POW. But Tywin won a war with Jaime as a POW. And it's not like this war is going to be nearly as close. Either Cersei's trick works and she's in such a dominant position that she can afford to give Dany the Jaime bargaining chip, or she's lost and Jaime's no worse off than if he were captured in KL.

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

I find Cersei riveting, she's anything but boring for me. Game of Thrones would be a shadow of the series it is now without her character and Lena Headey's delivery of that character.

The strategy of letting your enemies (or others in general anyway) do all the heavy lifting and then mopping up, is straight out of Tywins handbook as we saw in the battle of KL. Cersei learned from Tywins tutelage when he spoke on matters of Gold and strategy. She is her fathers daughter in these respects. 

Its interesting how the 3 Lannister children (Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion) are all so completely different in personality, Cersei is the most like Tywin mo.

[Isis]

I cannot help but think that if there is anything growing inside Cersei it is just one of those freakish tumours made of eyes, teeth and hair. Like a kind of fucked up, retarded onset conjoined twin thing.

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

14 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Competent?  She is insane.  Completely fucking mad.  

She is perfect ... I thought "WHat? So Cersei is going to send the troups? What? So easily? NO way! The game of thrones is boring now!" In the end she tells Jamie a fool... I felt like she was talking directly to me... It made me think that Maybe she is actually carrying Euron's son... She wouldn't have threatened Jamie or ever wanting to kill him if she had his son... Maybe she was just trying to make him stay by her side out of fear...

[SerJeremiahLouistark]

1 hour ago, Being Daenerys Targaryen said:

She is perfect ... I thought "WHat? So Cersei is going to send the troups? What? So easily? NO way! The game of thrones is boring now!" In the end she tells Jamie a fool... I felt like she was talking directly to me... It made me think that Maybe she is actually carrying Euron's son... She wouldn't have threatened Jamie or ever wanting to kill him if she had his son... Maybe she was just trying to make him stay by her side out of fear...

I don't think so, she even thinks Jaime betrayed her meeting with Tyrion without telling her when he didn't even know he was meeting with him, and after he told her immediately.  She has jumped the shark and can't get past her own personal goal and realize that the game of thrones means nothing now.  

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

On 29/08/2017 at 0:51 PM, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

I don't think so, she even thinks Jaime betrayed her meeting with Tyrion without telling her when he didn't even know he was meeting with him, and after he told her immediately.  She has jumped the shark and can't get past her own personal goal and realize that the game of thrones means nothing now.  

Then what do we have left once we abondon that character? A gapping pit! Chaos.. 

The Show is named after the iron throne.... The throne... The realm... Hundred blades of Aegon's ennemies

Someone still needs to fight for it... After the long night... The long night will only take less than 6 episodes...  

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

15 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

I don't think so, she even thinks Jaime betrayed her meeting with Tyrion without telling her when he didn't even know he was meeting with him, and after he told her immediately.

I think it was already established that Cersei went crazy since season 6... And the final episode (10) was the pinnacle... She was close to Aerys the Mad king... And yet, we still don't know why he was mad... "Burn them all"... 

[Being Daenerys Targaryen]

15 hours ago, Aegon_Blackfyre said:

Have to give it to Cersei she's been a step ahead of everyone this season. she formed an alliance with Euron which crippled the Targaryen fleet and knocked Dorne out of the fight, she rallied the lords of the reach to rebel against House Tyrell/Olenna which was the last of Dany's initial Westerosi allies and finally put on a whole show to convince Jon and Dany that Cersei will indeed go North but instead is using it to buy time to hire and bring the Golden Company to Westeros while her enemies are busy fighting the White Walkers.

yes...