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Snormund

Can we talk about Jon?

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I think this show in general completely bungled Jon's interactions with Mel. They are much more significant in the book and make a lot more sense. In the show she tries to get him to fuck her because....? I guess they needed gratuitous nudity. Then she resurrects him and they have a few short conversations with little meaning, which is hard to believe. Then he banishes her and that's that. 

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2 minutes ago, Snormund said:

Lol Mel could be his great great grandmother with the way this show has been going. 

Lol I always wondered if Mel just accidently pressed that "button" and turned into her old self during any of her sexual persuasions.

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Just now, Sir Dingleberry said:

Lol I always wondered if Mel just accidently pressed that "button" and turned into her old self during any of her sexual persuasions.

That whole thing makes little sense to me too. If she's powerful enough to live that long why is age still affecting her without the necklace (of course in s4 she was still sexy without it so...)? And if she needs the necklace why doesn't she keel over and die when she takes it off?

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11 minutes ago, Snormund said:

That whole thing makes little sense to me too. If she's powerful enough to live that long why is age still affecting her without the necklace (of course in s4 she was still sexy without it so...)? And if she needs the necklace why doesn't she keel over and die when she takes it off?

You're asking way too many questions that could never possibly be explained in a in a D&D show outside of maybe a 20 second conversation but I digress.  But I forgot about the whole necklace thing not being on and her still staying as herself. So, I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and say the necklace was in her pocket. 

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Just now, Sir Dingleberry said:

You're asking way too many questions that could never possibly be explained in a in a D&D show outside of maybe a 20 second conversation but I digress.  But I forgot about the whole necklace thing not being on and her still staying as herself. So, I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and say the necklace was in her pocket. 

She was naked. Does she have pockets in her skin? :lol:

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22 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

Also, Jon wanted to avoid loss of lives. If they defeat the NK, what after that? Do Dany's armies fight Jon's armies? And he was also influenced by what Tormund said about wildlings being killed due to Mance refusing to bend the knee.

Now it's possible Jon did it partly because he was attracted to Dany, but that wasn't what primarily led him to capitulate.

Except it was established that Jon didn't know if the Northern lords would follow him in his decision to bend the knee. Jon needs to ask himself: what will he do if the Northerners (such as his sisters and brother) say 'no' to Daenerys? What will he do if they refuse to bend the knee alongside him? Will he fight against them, lead the armies of Daenerys against the armies of the North? Will he let Dany burn Sansa, Arya and Bran alive like the Tarlys? It's such a fucking stupid decision because Jon had already secured her support to fight the army of the dead. And I guarantee that the Northerners would be a lot more inclined to bend the knee to a Targaryen after she's helped them defeat the army of the dead.

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19 minutes ago, Snormund said:

I think this show in general completely bungled Jon's interactions with Mel. They are much more significant in the book and make a lot more sense. In the show she tries to get him to fuck her because....? I guess they needed gratuitous nudity. Then she resurrects him and they have a few short conversations with little meaning, which is hard to believe. Then he banishes her and that's that. 

I also really disliked how Jon reacted to Mel's advances in the show. In the book, Jon tries not to associate with Mel at all, untangling her arm from his and attempting to keep a distance between them, because of his mistrust in her, particularly in sorcery ('sorcery is a sword without a hilt' and all that). In the show, he's copping a feel and stopping at the last minute because of Ygritte.

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Just now, WSmith84 said:

I also really disliked how Jon reacted to Mel's advances in the show. In the book, Jon tries not to associate with Mel at all, untangling her arm from his and attempting to keep a distance between them, because of his mistrust in her, particularly in sorcery ('sorcery is a sword without a hilt' and all that). In the show, he's copping a feel and stopping at the last minute because of Ygritte.

I don't think it was out of character for Jon to "cop a feel". I think it was to show he's not perfect and is succeptible to lust,  but will ultimately make the right decision and not trust a crazy witch because she's naked and hot. 

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15 minutes ago, Sir Dingleberry said:

I hear you on your point and agree on how this would be logical but this would open the forum up to more talk of Jon (Aegon) taking on FAegon's plot in the books I feel like.

You touch on an interesting point here.

I think the episodes are suffering because there's a lot of book-canon surrounding the show that D&D have sliced away for reasons of adaptation. The problem is that they have then forgotten that, while they know the books and what needs to happen in season 7 and 8 (and why), the show audience does not.

So we are hopping from one plot point to another with no orientation or consistency with character. It's like Arya executing Littlefinger in full view of an entire hall of people, when her training as a faceless man was all about secrecy and clandestine assassination.    

Jon's character, in turn, was all about seeing the long game: not just what the situation was at the present time but how it might be further down the line (his argument for letting the wildlings through the wall, for example, to prevent their recruitment into the NK army and also so they could settle the gift). Yet all this foresight seems to have disappeared. He surely would have known Dany would demand he bend the knee if he demanded something from her, so why not offset that with a marriage proposal that fundamentally goes awry?

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39 minutes ago, Hoo said:

I never understood king in the north to mean a permanent secession.  They declare kingdom when they are in an open rebellion, and then when things quiet down they become subservient to KL for the peace of the realm.

Him bending the knee is a matter of course, that's what they do in the north.

This is why Cersei wants him to suspend the rebelllion before declaring her help.  It's an issue.  But he cannot do it because he already made peace with one throne contender.  And Cersei's mad.

??

Where did you get this from? The Starks were Kings for thousands of years. Robb rose and planned a permanent Kingdom. He was murdered and the Boltons pledged to the Iron Throne but probably meant to secede when the time was right. With the Starks back, a new King was named.

Torrhen knelt, the one and only, until Jon.

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Just now, Sir Dingleberry said:

I mean clearly it was a magic pocket lol. its invisible just like her actual body.

Shit I guess Mel never has to worry about having a place to hide her wallet then. Must come in handy. 

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3 minutes ago, Masha's apron said:

You touch on an interesting point here.

I think the episodes are suffering because there's a lot of book-canon surrounding the show that D&D have sliced away for reasons of adaptation. The problem is that they have then forgotten that, while they know the books and what needs to happen in season 7 and 8 (and why), the show audience does not.

So we are hopping from one plot point to another with no orientation or consistency with character. It's like Arya executing Littlefinger in full view of an entire hall of people, when her training as a faceless man was all about secrecy and clandestine assassination.    

Jon's character, in turn, was all about seeing the long game: not just what the situation was at the present time but how it might be further down the line (his argument for letting the wildlings through the wall, for example, to prevent their recruitment into the NK army and also so they could settle the gift). Yet all this foresight seems to have disappeared. He surely would have known Dany would demand he bend the knee if he demanded something from her, so why not offset that with a marriage proposal that fundamentally goes awry?

ya, I agree.  The fast pace is taking away from everything, which is fine cause the show is basically cool fights but otherwise cliff notes for how the book ending goes.  Arya as a faceless assassin is fine for me since she never achieved being a facelessman.  By that I mean, like inducted into the actual order and all that because she clearly learned how to do it.  So, her killing LF so publicly was a bit odd but I feel like that was done because LF has worked in the dark for so long and it felt good to see all his crap come to light in front of others.

I think a more suitable outcome for Jon/Dany should have simply been an alliance.  Dany wants to rule the 7 kingdoms but she doesn't even know what that means.  I mean at this point she has only traveled to Dragonstone/ Kingslanding and then North of the Wall and nowhere else.  Would have preferred an agreed upon truce and then conflicts arising when they start falling for each other and then when his true parentage is learned. It would be funny though if Jon never really learned his parentage and just carried on as Jon Snow after its been this huge deal for so long.

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4 minutes ago, Snormund said:

Shit I guess Mel never has to worry about having a place to hide her wallet then. Must come in handy. 

Mel is just a red priestess living in world she is just ages ahead.  I mean she is probably the secret behind this whole time traveling thing by her creation of magic ubering.  And she gained all this power by killing Shireen. Wisest thing she ever did.

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1 minute ago, Sir Dingleberry said:

Mel is just a red priestess living in world she is just ages ahead.  I mean she is probably the secret behind this whole time traveling thing by her creation of magic ubering.  And she gained all this power by killing Shireen. Wisest thing she ever did.

Magic uber hahahaahhahhaahhaha 

 

Obviously the night king can't afford their prices 

 

 

 

Edited by Snormund

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1 minute ago, Sir Dingleberry said:

hahaha peasant.  

It's okay he has a dragon now and based on episode 6 they come with a built in GPS 

Edited by Snormund

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Just now, Sir Dingleberry said:

...And at the rate that dragon is deteriorating, he'll be riding a skeleton dragon mid way through season 8.

NK isn't good at maintenance, it seems. 

Good chance that  Todd and Daedpan will do something dumb enough to give him another one, though.  

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