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Owen Wulfson

Cersei is screwed - the fighting won't be in the North!

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Cersei is as ever, a character with a narrow view of power and indeed the world. This is why I knew that the whole "show Cersei a zombie" thing was a bad idea from the start. Because even if she knew the Army of the Dead was real, there was never any reason to believe that she wouldn't play politics with its coming. 

With that said, Cersei is in for a terrible surprise: the fighting won't be in the North! The numbers in the final episode are important: 100,000 zombies in the undead host (according to Daenerys), 1 million people in King's Landing and far less people in the entire North. Now if I were the Night King - would I wage a protracted war in the North with an uncertain victory or, as is more likely, would I march south and sack Kings Landing, increase my force tenfold and then declare a win? The latter option of course! Also, does anyone not think the Night King won't try to rez all the DEAD DRAGONS underneath the Red Keep in storage!?

Jon and Daenrys will have to march south in the wake of the undead host after it barrels from Eastwatch to Moat Cailin all to save the capital of the vindictive woman who betrayed them!

Now the fact that the undead marched through Eastwatch with not apparent intention to cross by sea is important to this thoery. Look at this map:

Image result for game of thrones map of the north

If the Dead were intent on attacking Winterfell they would have blasted through Castle Black in the center. East Watch, however, is an entrance that gives them a near straight shot to the Neck and Moat Cailin. They could even follow the coastline if they are really bad with directions. This does put White Harbor in the path of the Host, which the Night King may sack on his way down. What this means for Cersei is that by the time she ship over an army of mercenaries to supplement her own forces it will be just in time to watch them get eaten by ice zombies.  

What does this mean for the Show?

Two things:

1) We get to go back south where all the drama is, and thank goodness for that.

2) We get to see Jon and Daenrys square off on strategy. They both want to keep King's Landing from falling to the dead - if that happens Game Over. But I am betting Daenrys, angry over Cersei's betrayal, will argue that the best and only course of action would be to fly south on her remaining dragons and burn King's Landing and everyone in it so that the Night King cannot raise them. this would be a strategic pyrrhic victory for the living.

Jon will argue against this, saying that the lives of that many people are worth trying to save at any cost. And once again he will suggest, wait for it, another suicide mission (because the last one ended so well..) to infiltrate the Red Keep, kill Cersei, and hand over control of the city to Jaimie to coordinate it's defenses. The Hound will come along and thus we get our Cleganebowl in the royal hall. And Jaimie will likely be the one to kill Cersei, thus fulfilling the prophecy (it was her mistake letting him go). And when the fighting is done, Daenrys and Jon can declare victory and a new united realm (but what about the costs blah blah blah). 

I call this theory the Dead Marching South theory for Game of Thrones.

What do you guys think?

 

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I like your view on the battles taking place in King's Landing in Season 8.  It appears that the NK can move faster now that he has an undead dragon.  His undead army appeared to move pretty slowly in Season 7.  But now the NK can fly,  and he could make a forage out in front of his army's to Winterfell and cause some serious damage there.  That would result in most of the northern lords to start moving south, or fleeing the scene to re-group and come up with a battle plan. 

Also, Bran was warging into the three-eyed Raven at the time the wall came down, he could also warn his sisters and the northern lords and they might come to the same conclusion, there is simply not enough time to prepare for the battle and they move south to meet up with Jon.  This assumes that the timeline syncs up about the time Jon and Dany are disembarking from their leisurely cruise :) and are about to start their journey north on the King's Road after meeting up with the Unsullied and Dothraki armies.  This all could result in them concluding the south is a better and stronger position to fight the NK.

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At the white walkers current pace of travel they will hit Winter's Fell in 6 more seasons. Some how Sam made it from the southern tip of Westeros back to Winterfell faster than the white walkers traveled to the wall. Gendry ran from the same spot in less than a day.  Cersei will die of old age before they make it to King's Landing.

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Maybe Cersei knows that Qyburn has something up his sleeve to stop the army of the dead. 

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14 minutes ago, Tadco26 said:

At the white walkers current pace of travel they will hit Winter's Fell in 6 more seasons. Some how Sam made it from the southern tip of Westeros back to Winterfell faster than the white walkers traveled to the wall. Gendry ran from the same spot in less than a day.  Cersei will die of old age before they make it to King's Landing.

You do realize that the White Walkers weren't just walking super slow this whole time. They were baiting Dany to bring her dragons to them this whole time. They are extremely old, patient, and deliberate. Episodes 6 and 7 made it clear they needed a dragon to break through the wall, and now nothing is stopping them. They might as well all have LF's jet pack from the point forward.

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With the reference to the population of kings landing compared to the north, the vision of kings landing in ruin, I think there may be some truth to it. The most powerful army will be north already, Kings Landing will be vulnerable. Go south, take out kings landing, raise a bigger army and march north with even better odds

If the night king was indeed baiting Dany to bring her dragons, I wonder how the Night King knew dragons existed again however? He must have some sort of power as well? 

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3 hours ago, Owen Wulfson said:

Now if I were the Night King - would I wage a protracted war in the North with an uncertain victory or, as is more likely, would I march south and sack Kings Landing, increase my force tenfold and then declare a win?

King's Landing is a hard battle.

Once you get to the Riverlands, there are at least 4 million people scattered around mostly undefended territory. Once you've got most of those 4 million in your army, most of the West's 5 million and then the Reach's 12 million should be no trouble. Plus, you've now brought winter all the way down to the bottom of the continent, which should make it a lot easier to go back and deal with the frozen, starving masses at King's Landing. Then finish touring the seven before coming back and dealing with Winterfell. (Or just don't bother and let them hole up there until they run out of hardtack and jerky; why rush things?)

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Doubt it they already spoiled how season 8 was going down, there's a reason they twisted the story into knots to keep Cercei around and that's because D&D want her to be the final boss. The night king is getting pantsed half way through next season, causing enough damage in the process to make Cercei's backstab an credible threat leave her in a position where she could be a serious contender for the throne against the likes of someone with dragons.  

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I am wondering if Dany's vision in season 2 of a trashed wintery KL will now play out?

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4 hours ago, Owen Wulfson said:

Cersei is as ever, a character with a narrow view of power and indeed the world. This is why I knew that the whole "show Cersei a zombie" thing was a bad idea from the start. Because even if she knew the Army of the Dead was real, there was never any reason to believe that she wouldn't play politics with its coming. 

With that said, Cersei is in for a terrible surprise: the fighting won't be in the North! The numbers in the final episode are important: 100,000 zombies in the undead host (according to Daenerys), 1 million people in King's Landing and far less people in the entire North. Now if I were the Night King - would I wage a protracted war in the North with an uncertain victory or, as is more likely, would I march south and sack Kings Landing, increase my force tenfold and then declare a win? The latter option of course! Also, does anyone not think the Night King won't try to rez all the DEAD DRAGONS underneath the Red Keep in storage!?

Jon and Daenrys will have to march south in the wake of the undead host after it barrels from Eastwatch to Moat Cailin all to save the capital of the vindictive woman who betrayed them!

Now the fact that the undead marched through Eastwatch with not apparent intention to cross by sea is important to this thoery. Look at this map:

Image result for game of thrones map of the north

If the Dead were intent on attacking Winterfell they would have blasted through Castle Black in the center. East Watch, however, is an entrance that gives them a near straight shot to the Neck and Moat Cailin. They could even follow the coastline if they are really bad with directions. This does put White Harbor in the path of the Host, which the Night King may sack on his way down. What this means for Cersei is that by the time she ship over an army of mercenaries to supplement her own forces it will be just in time to watch them get eaten by ice zombies.  

What does this mean for the Show?

Two things:

1) We get to go back south where all the drama is, and thank goodness for that.

2) We get to see Jon and Daenrys square off on strategy. They both want to keep King's Landing from falling to the dead - if that happens Game Over. But I am betting Daenrys, angry over Cersei's betrayal, will argue that the best and only course of action would be to fly south on her remaining dragons and burn King's Landing and everyone in it so that the Night King cannot raise them. this would be a strategic pyrrhic victory for the living.

Jon will argue against this, saying that the lives of that many people are worth trying to save at any cost. And once again he will suggest, wait for it, another suicide mission (because the last one ended so well..) to infiltrate the Red Keep, kill Cersei, and hand over control of the city to Jaimie to coordinate it's defenses. The Hound will come along and thus we get our Cleganebowl in the royal hall. And Jaimie will likely be the one to kill Cersei, thus fulfilling the prophecy (it was her mistake letting him go). And when the fighting is done, Daenrys and Jon can declare victory and a new united realm (but what about the costs blah blah blah). 

I call this theory the Dead Marching South theory for Game of Thrones.

What do you guys think?

 

If I were the nights king I would go to Doorne asap, that would turn evreything North of Dorne into the land of always winter. Honestly all he needs to do in kills anyone who engages him and cause evreyone else to freeze to death.

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19 hours ago, Ours is the Brewery said:

You do realize that the White Walkers weren't just walking super slow this whole time. They were baiting Dany to bring her dragons to them this whole time. They are extremely old, patient, and deliberate. Episodes 6 and 7 made it clear they needed a dragon to break through the wall, and now nothing is stopping them. They might as well all have LF's jet pack from the point forward.

And yet AFTER they got the dragon it took them more time to reach the wall, which was a distance Gendry ran in under a day, than it took Sam to travel from Old Town at the bottom of Westeros to Winterfell.

The whole they were waiting all this time for a dragon explanation is pretty weak in it's own right considering they could have had a minimum of 2 dragons easily, and didn't even throw at the one sitting still on the ground with the humans on it which all would have died with the dragon.

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Cersei simply lost her mind, you can't make deal with the zombies, but you can always make deal with other houses, yet instead of joining forces with them, she is still trying to deceive them and try to keep her own throne.

I still don't know what kind of idiots would follow this mad woman, they don't owe any loyalty to her because she is the widow of Robert, she has no Targaryen kinship and she didn't win the throne by the right of conquest, she has no right to the Iron throne, Dorne, Reach, Stormlands shouldn't help her, and now the Freys are dead, she lost the Riverlands too. All she has Euron Greyjoy who is also mad, even madder than Balon.

At this point, I see no difference between Aerys and Cersei... She is the Mad Queen now.

 

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18 hours ago, boojam said:

I am wondering if Dany's vision in season 2 of a trashed wintery KL will now play out?

I think one way or another KL will blow up with wildfire, I think they will bait the army of the dead into the city and then burn them all.

Even if the Others/WW can survive the fire, they will have to start from scratch with no wights.

A clever plot would be evacuate most of the city and leave a military garrison in the Red Keep to hook the dead to enter the city.

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All that NK needs to do to sack KL immediately is to fly on the wings of undragon over the city gates and raise his hands. All the unburnt corpses within will rise and start to kill people who will turn and kill more people. Think about all the armed corpses that lay in the depths of Blackwater Bay.

NK can do this in each graveyard in Westeros, particulary near recent battle sites. For example: there were two major battles at the gates of Winterfell. There are loads of fresh corpses to rise but this can be done by ordinary walkers I suppose.

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On 8/28/2017 at 5:21 PM, summitxho said:

With the reference to the population of kings landing compared to the north, the vision of kings landing in ruin, I think there may be some truth to it. The most powerful army will be north already, Kings Landing will be vulnerable. Go south, take out kings landing, raise a bigger army and march north with even better odds

If the night king was indeed baiting Dany to bring her dragons, I wonder how the Night King knew dragons existed again however? He must have some sort of power as well? 

well to be fair magic came back with dragons. The books mention this alot more then the show does but the magic came back with the dragons

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I think the army of the dead can move faster now. North of the wall it is alot colder and harder terrain. Now the night king can move through area's that are easier to get through and not hard to move in so there isn't huge piles of snow that are as tall as a man. I think the idea he will go to kings landing is a good one since if he gets a million dead things in his army the game is over and he is unstopaable. It would also be a good way to bring it to an end and have cersei's decision to come back to bite her in the but.

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As to what the topic is about cersei is wrong. If dany loses she will face the army of the dead and it will be stronger  since it will have the northmen,the dothraki,and possibly another two dragons (though she may not know that). I wish jaime had brought this up or dany or jon did. Your right the fighting won't take place in the north no matter what unless dany wins

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7 hours ago, Tadco26 said:

And yet AFTER they got the dragon it took them more time to reach the wall, which was a distance Gendry ran in under a day, than it took Sam to travel from Old Town at the bottom of Westeros to Winterfell.

The whole they were waiting all this time for a dragon explanation is pretty weak in it's own right considering they could have had a minimum of 2 dragons easily, and didn't even throw at the one sitting still on the ground with the humans on it which all would have died with the dragon.

I think the thing is that when they are north of the wall they don't have a reason to move fast. Now when they are moving south they have no reason not too start moving fast.  They need to move quick to get places before they get ready and do the most damage they can with the least loss's

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The Dothraki are marching north from KL, so if the AoD went straight to the Neck and south then they would most likely end up fighting and assimilating the Dothraki. That would be something to see the AoD attacking KL and tie in with the vision Dany had in the House of the Undying. 

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9 hours ago, Camara said:

I think one way or another KL will blow up with wildfire, I think they will bait the army of the dead into the city and then burn them all.

Even if the Others/WW can survive the fire, they will have to start from scratch with no wights.

A clever plot would be evacuate most of the city and leave a military garrison in the Red Keep to hook the dead to enter the city.

That's a cool theory I have never heard before. 

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