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Skills

Tyrion the peeping tom

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At first when they had that scene with somebody spying on Jon walking into Dany's bedroom, I thought for sure it would be a jealous Jorah.

But why is Tyrion there?  And why does he look so upset/confused?  Does he think Jon and Dany's romance is going to cloud their judgement?  

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I think Tyrion is definitely re-evaluating his life choices lol. He, of all people, understands that love and politics do not mix. As Aemon once said, love is the death of duty. He and Varys have already struggled bringing Daenery's to heel this season, and an intimate relationship with Jon could easily hinder her abilities to lead a successful campaign against Cercei and the dead.

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31 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

I just think Tyrion read the Free Folk leaks for Season 7 and is disappointed boatsex was an actual thing that happened.

:lol:

Brilliant!

But seriously, I think the show runners did want to elicit some jealousy in Tyrion over the situation. Maybe Jorah is about to die and Tyrion becomes the new Jorah, much like Barristan making way for Tyrion in Meereen. Who knows with this show!

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On 8/28/2017 at 1:50 PM, Skills said:

At first when they had that scene with somebody spying on Jon walking into Dany's bedroom, I thought for sure it would be a jealous Jorah.

But why is Tyrion there?  And why does he look so upset/confused?  Does he think Jon and Dany's romance is going to cloud their judgement?  

This was my reading but there's so many directions they can go.  I remember before the season Dinklage gave an interview where he said Tyrion was "smitten" with Dany, although there was literally NOTHING indicating that until this final scene.  I've also read an interview with the director of the episode who said he didn't think it was supposed to convey anything romantic or jealousy, but what you said.  Worried about clouding Dany's judgment.  

One final interpretation is that if you notice when Dany opens the door for Jon she is looking down, so that's been read as she was expecting Tyrion for some kind of meeting, which would explain why Tyrion was lurking around her room.  

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On 8/28/2017 at 0:50 PM, Skills said:

At first when they had that scene with somebody spying on Jon walking into Dany's bedroom, I thought for sure it would be a jealous Jorah.

Give the poor guy a break! He deserves better :)

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20 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

This was my reading but there's so many directions they can go.  I remember before the season Dinklage gave an interview where he said Tyrion was "smitten" with Dany, although there was literally NOTHING indicating that until this final scene.  I've also read an interview with the director of the episode who said he didn't think it was supposed to convey anything romantic or jealousy, but what you said.  Worried about clouding Dany's judgment.  

One final interpretation is that if you notice when Dany opens the door for Jon she is looking down, so that's been read as she was expecting Tyrion for some kind of meeting, which would explain why Tyrion was lurking around her room.  

Tyrion been smitten with Dany has clouded his judgement. That's why his advice has been so poor. He didn't want Dany taking any risks. He will sharpen up his act now.

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1 hour ago, Deminelle said:

Tyrion been smitten with Dany has clouded his judgement. That's why his advice has been so poor. He didn't want Dany taking any risks. He will sharpen up his act now.

I don't see it that way.  The way the show portrayed it, his advice has largely been poor because he still has feelings for his family, i.e. Jaime, and doesn't want to just kill him.  That's why you had Dany call him out on that and all those scenes of a guilt-ridden Tyrion watching the destruction of the Lannister army after the Loot Train Battle (what an awful name BTW :D for an awesome battle).  

I think it makes more sense now for Tyrion to be wary of Jon/Dany for that exact same reason- his emotional attachments made him give bad advice and maybe he sees that happening for Dany, who is headstrong to begin with.  

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12 hours ago, tinka10 said:

an intimate relationship with Jon could easily hinder her abilities to lead a successful campaign against Cercei and the dead

It couldn't possibly bring more harm to her campaign than his season 7 advise already has... Might even help her.  

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I've been thinking about this a lot too. As far as Tyrion's scenes in the episode, I'm bothered by this one and the one with Cersei that cut away without showing what Tyrion said to her to convince her to join the fight (or pretend to). I really don't want to think of Tyrion as a traitor, but he is a manipulator, so I think he made some kind of deal with Cersei that this relationship between Jon and Dany could undo. I have some thoughts about what that could be, but nothing good enough to put out there.

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4 hours ago, DesertRose said:

I've been thinking about this a lot too. As far as Tyrion's scenes in the episode, I'm bothered by this one and the one with Cersei that cut away without showing what Tyrion said to her to convince her to join the fight (or pretend to). I really don't want to think of Tyrion as a traitor, but he is a manipulator, so I think he made some kind of deal with Cersei that this relationship between Jon and Dany could undo. I have some thoughts about what that could be, but nothing good enough to put out there.

Same here. Those two scenes you mentioned have made me suspicious about Tyrion. And that maybe is what they want us thinking. It could be something positive though. Tyrion is one of only few people who know about Cersei's pregnancy. He may be the only one besides Jon and Dany who will know about their boatsex. If it later comes to them hiding their relationship but Dany getting pregnant, it's Tyrion, who will know the truth. 

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On 8/28/2017 at 1:50 PM, Skills said:

At first when they had that scene with somebody spying on Jon walking into Dany's bedroom, I thought for sure it would be a jealous Jorah.

But why is Tyrion there?  And why does he look so upset/confused?  Does he think Jon and Dany's romance is going to cloud their judgement?  

Maybe it is another hint alluding to Tyrion being a Targ as well. (He wants in on the incest as well) 

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10 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

I don't see it that way.  The way the show portrayed it, his advice has largely been poor because he still has feelings for his family, i.e. Jaime, and doesn't want to just kill him.  That's why you had Dany call him out on that and all those scenes of a guilt-ridden Tyrion watching the destruction of the Lannister army after the Loot Train Battle (what an awful name BTW :D for an awesome battle).  

I think it makes more sense now for Tyrion to be wary of Jon/Dany for that exact same reason- his emotional attachments made him give bad advice and maybe he sees that happening for Dany, who is headstrong to begin with.  

This is spot on i think. 

The only other thing I would add is the show has also portayed Tyrion as going full on idealist while having a fear of Dany given her father. He believes in dany and the better world she wants to build but seems unwilling to sully things to get there or have Dany sully herself by being too ruthless. Its like him killing his father was not only a physical act but also a metaphorical act whereby he killed any and all realism he learned from Tywin. 

If he is going to have any hope of keeping his job next season he needs to embrace some of Tywin's methods while coupling them to Dany's moralism and idealism instead of the pure self interest Tywin followed. Ironically she has a better handle on that than he does as she tells Jon "sometimes strength is terrible"

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There's a fan theory floating around that Tyrion made a deal with Cersei in the final episode that would ensure her child will rule after Daenerys (since Daenerys doesn't have any children), and the reason he looks so concerned when Jonaerys hook up is because Daenerys' potential pregnancy could screw up the deal he made with Cersei.

Kind of a long shot though, I think.

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Whilst I don't doubt that Tyrion feels both admiration and is very, very likely to be physically attracted to her, which would not be difficult, I doubt that he was acting in a sexually jealous way there.  For one thing, he is smart enough to know that she is never going to become his lover.  He is aware of the types she is attracted to.  Even Jorah, whom I am sure she loves deeply on a platonic level who is a good fighter, and in the show quite good looking in my opinion, is just not "her type."  Okay, she married for duty but he cannot even hope that she will marry him for a political allegiance.  She has his allegiance anyway and, even if he gets Casterly Rock it will be hard for him to keep his vassals on line, so he wouldn't add much to her in this regard.  It is not impossible, I guess, that since this was just a fleeting moment, that yes, accepting in your head that someone will never want you that way and seeing proof could have caused that funny look but I personally think there is more to it than that.

Also in previous episodes I got the impression that he was aware of the attraction between Jon and Dany.  He pointed out to her that he was including Jon in the list of men who had desired her, or have her at some point.  His remarks were, to me, telling but not necessarily negative or disappointed.  In fact, that scene left me half convinced that he was playing match-maker but maybe not too seriously, kind of playfully...

Yes, of course he is also well aware that love can complicate matters terribly and cloud one's judgement.  He is probably one of the best examples we have in the story for that lol  First he married a commoner, but hey yes he was very young.  Then he falls for a prostitute.  Okay, he tries his best in his political marriage to Sansa but I get the impression that if she hadn't fallen for Dontos/LF trap she would have learnt eventually to play him like a fiddle and that he would have been happy to oblige; so surely this guy knows how vulnerable love or even infatuation can make even the shrewdest of people.  Even the mighty Tywin fell for this and he has been told the story enough times to know.  So, yes, I think there is an element of this too.

Now, that he made some pact with Cersei off screen I am convinced of too.  However, I don't think it's an all out betrayal to Dan.  Even if this was the case it would not be in terms of being scorned as a potential lover.  He never made a move on her and his "negotiation" with Cersei took place before he saw her and Jon at it.  It's quite likely that it involved possibly a compromise to make Cersei's child Dany's successor if she was right and could not have children, or may even have just promised Cersei's child an advantageous marriage, a place in the Council or something.  I really, really cannot see him leaving team Dany.  Of course if he promised Cersei to put her child on the IT after Dany's death, well this could explained his reaction, but only if he is not entirely convinced that Dany is truly barren, otherwise it wouldn't matter much in the big scheme of things.  Still this possible promise has issues.  Clever as he is he cannot guarantee in any way, shape or form that Dany would agree to this line of succession.  In fact, she is very likely to tell him where to go.  Surely, Cersei must have realised that too.  All Tyrion could have realistically promised her is to "put a good word in."

All in all, I think this "look" was very choreographed and it was primarily designed to keep us wondering about a potential betrayal from Tyrion and create suspense.  I am of the opinion that it was due to a combination of:  concern in terms of love clouding judgement, a possibly pact with Cersei re her unborn child and perhaps yes a little instinctive jealousy but I really don't think that it is going to impact the plot in any major way.  Also, yes, it is possible that he might have guessed Jon's parentage just like most of this forum did but, if he could be almost certain, he would not have been so casual, I don't think, when he was joking with Dany about Jon being in that "list."  That assuming that an avuncular relationship among Targs worries him, which we don't know one way or the other.  Hey, his own parents were cousins, so hard to say.

Edited by Morgana Lannister

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On 08/09/2017 at 7:12 PM, Deminelle said:

Tyrion been smitten with Dany has clouded his judgement. That's why his advice has been so poor. He didn't want Dany taking any risks. He will sharpen up his act now.

He kind of fucked up the 'not taking risks' part by leading literally every ally she has that's Westerosi to their graves XD

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