all swedes are racist Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 lol every fucking time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 39 minutes ago, Shryke said: Re: The Trangender Ban in the Military Mattis is dragging his feet on the issue because the military doesn't wanna actually do this. They already did basically the most they could publicly to say so in the wake of the initial tweet and now Mattis is stalling. They've spent like a year now studying the issue, they were prepped and ready for the transition, etc, etc. If there's one thing the military doesn't like to do, it's change. And so when they do change, they really hate being shoved around and told to change back. Yeah, it seems to me that this is pretty likely. If the issue is the price of reassignment surgery or some other potential financial pitfall, then they should address that, but a ban is disgusting. I can't imagine that any large percentage of military personnel support this policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamMe90 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Lew Theobald said: Seems to me you're not actually responding to what I said, but are thinking in terms of stereotypes. What I actually said is that the decision, by focusing on a substantive due process analysis, avoided any broad sweeping implications. I also suggested that any such implications would be speculative, since the court never explained its analysis in terms that could be extended to other cases. When pressed for examples, I confined my examples (necessarily speculative, since I had no equal protection analysis to base them on) to the subject of marriage, rather than going further afield (equal protection analysis is applied in a huge variety of contexts, not merely marriage). I never mentioned incest or bestiality. When I mentioned marrying one's aunt or dog, this was specifically in the context of the understanding that sex need not be involved in an institution which was conceded to not necessarily involve sex. My assumption was that tax breaks, and not any form of sexual deviance, would be the primary motive. I never even implied the marriage of children, unless you think of Peter Parker as under-age. I never mentioned polygamy either. It may be part of a stereotypical slippery slope argument, but I really was thinking in term of equal protection analysis, which typically has involved rights of individuals, and not groups. I was trying to answer the question actually asked. Silly me. This was not part of any "slippery slope" argument. I was merely giving examples of people (crazy people if you like, though it's hardly crazy to want a tax break that other citizens are getting) who might conceivably make equal-protection claims, but whose claims are more easily dismissed by courts because the analysis in Obergefell will not give potential Plaintiff's much to hang their hats on. Or, to put it another way, the only slippery slope I mentioned was the one that had been largely avoided. That you are outraged that I had the "balls" to say such things illustrates my point of the extreme intolerance that pervades in highly polarized online communities.. I was using those terms as shorthand for the marital implications, but you are correct that those terms denote sex rather than marriage, so I stand corrected on my usage of those terms. I also specifically noted that you did not use children as an example, so we're not disagreeing there. I also did not accuse you of invoking polygamy, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. I understand your argument, but reject that an equal protection analysis (in a counterfactual scenario where the Court relief on what you woudl consider an equal protection analysis) would really make an equal-protection claim of the sorts you mention more likely to survive a court action. I think there are a number of pragmatic reasons why this will never happen in the United States. Also, I am not "outraged," the word I used was "surprised." I am surprised that you said what you did because you ignored the question posed to you two times. It's not unreasonable that I found it unlikely you'd answer on the third. I did suspect you didn't want to answer the question, because you knew the answer would be perceived unfavorably. That was just a hunch, though, which turned out to be probably wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamMe90 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Lew Theobald said: Ah, I see. You were in inquisitorial though-police mode. Trying to ferret out thought patterns that you might point to as vaguely symptomatic of unorthodoxy. For a moment there I thought you were actually trying to engage me in conversation, and exchange ideas, like a normal person. That's an interesting way of putting it. So far as I can tell, he assumed a position you held based on the content of your post, and asked a direct, simple question so that you could clarify whether his assumption about the views you hold was correct. That's actually a pretty normal thing to do in a conversation about substantive topics, especially through a text-based medium. I don't know what pure-of-mind superhumans you hang out with that never draw conclusions about what kinds of views others hold based on the the things that they say, but I assure you that if they truly are that way, it isn't "normal." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Lew Theobald said: Reap as you sow? Maybe that applies to me, but not to you. You can indulge in a post purely devoted to personal attack if you like. You can impune motives to other people if you like. You can insinuate if you like. You can bait if you like. You are the moderator and no-one can hold you accountable. And how is this not baiting, this accusation of "evading"? This accusation of "evading" with its implication that I somehow owe it to you to give you and the rest of the group to give more time, and share with you more ideas than I have already shared? This accusation of "evading" with its inquisitorial implication that if I do not submit to interrogation, you are entitled to make uncharitable assumptions about me? This accusation of "hedging" with its implications that the opinions I have expressed are not the ones I actually mean. What exactly I'm being accused of, I'm not sure. Maybe you should single out the post that was inappropriate, and tell me what you think the problem is. Perhaps that would be a constructive criticism, rather than a purely personal attack. Who have I been rude to? Where have I insulted people, rather than presented or challenged ideas (or declined to do so). Was it where I said this forum was inbred and one-sided and not representative of the public of large? Did that hurt someone's feelings? Well, I'm sorry, but I cannot take that back because it is obviously true. (Else, how did Trump win?). Was it where I said people need to actually speak to the other side, tolerate them and listen to them, in order to win the next election? I'm sorry, but that's my honest opinion. Was it where I accused other posters of bad faith? I don't recall ever doing that. But that's been done to me repeatedly (and now by you). Was it where I called another poster a "racist"? Nope, I never did that. But that was done to me (and on no conceivable basis whatsoever). In the meantime, this "Reap As You So" stuff looks suspiciously like a signal to the group that the normal rules of courtesy do not apply. In other words, "Have at 'im boys and girls. I have decided he deserves it". Thanks, moderator. Get down off the cross, please, we need the wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 7 minutes ago, Lew Theobald said: It's okay, man. I'm leaving. You just got about as reasonable a response as one might hope for from IamMe90. Just treat this place like a salad bar. Take what you want and leave the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstorebog Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Lew Theobald said: Well, I'm sorry, but I cannot take that back because it is obviously true. (Else, how did Trump win?). Not that I want to get involved, since this is pretty much your one-man show, but given that a majority of people didn't vote for Trump last year and even conservative pollsters agree that his approval has steadily declined ever since, wouldn't a representative forum precisely be anti-Trump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Shryke said: Re: The Trangender Ban in the Military Mattis is dragging his feet on the issue because the military doesn't wanna actually do this. They already did basically the most they could publicly to say so in the wake of the initial tweet and now Mattis is stalling. They've spent like a year now studying the issue, they were prepped and ready for the transition, etc, etc. If there's one thing the military doesn't like to do, it's change. And so when they do change, they really hate being shoved around and told to change back. Yup. Why turn away people who are ready, willing, and able to serve? That's just stupid. But then... this is Trump seeking to score political points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 If North Korea launches at Guam, as it is again threatening, will China follow through on their promise to ignore military strikes against North Korea by the US and South Korea?http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/29/asia/north-korea-missile-launch-guam-threat/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 My Prez wants to MAGA all the time, MAGA all the time, MAGA all the time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 And in Bizarro World Updates: Trump Appoints Former Head of DeVry University to Head Department of Education Fraud Enforcement https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/08/30/report-education-department-hires-enforcement-chief?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark /Yes, DeVry recently settled a $100 million dollar suit with the FTC for defrauding students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: And in Bizarro World Updates: Trump Appoints Former Head of DeVry University to Head Department of Education Fraud Enforcement https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/08/30/report-education-department-hires-enforcement-chief?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark /Yes, DeVry recently settled a $100 million dollar suit with the FTC for defrauding students. It should surprise me to see him do this but at this point... it really doesn't. Next he's going to appoint someone who wants to sell off all National Parks to Developers as head of the National Park Service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: And in Bizarro World Updates: Trump Appoints Former Head of DeVry University to Head Department of Education Fraud Enforcement https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/08/30/report-education-department-hires-enforcement-chief?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark /Yes, DeVry recently settled a $100 million dollar suit with the FTC for defrauding students. So who would know more about the ins and outs of it than him? It's sneaky genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 It is the Trump way, destroy institutions from the inside out, Perry in charge of the department he wanted to eliminate, the EPA run by a man who has always been a shill for the fossil fuel industry, his USDA nom is a non science mouth breather.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 19 minutes ago, Swordfish said: So who would know more about the ins and outs of it than him? It's sneaky genius! Yeah, it's kind of like the Metropolitan Police Department that hires a former car thief to help set up trap cars and the like. I guess there are some examples of the "To Catch A Thief" stratagem that you could point to. Somehow I don't think that's what's going on here though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Yeah, it seems to me that this is pretty likely. If the issue is the price of reassignment surgery or some other potential financial pitfall, then they should address that, but a ban is disgusting. I can't imagine that any large percentage of military personnel support this policy. HA! Have you met another American? Let alone an American soldier? You're dreadfully misinformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 2 hours ago, WinterFox said: HA! Have you met another American? Let alone an American soldier? You're dreadfully misinformed. I live like 5 minutes away from Travis AFB, so yeah, I have contact with enlisted folk all the time. Two close buddies from High School are career military. My Uncle on my father's side is career military. Admittedly, I'm sure your opinion is more directly informed than mine is. I can't imagine that's an easy row to hoe and didn't intend to suggest that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 Oh hey, they're introducing Trump's latest appointment... https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/snl-walter-white-dea-head_480.jpg?quality=100&w=479 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivin Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: I live like 5 minutes away from Travis AFB, so yeah, I have contact with enlisted folk all the time. The close buddies from High School are career military. My Uncle on my father's side is career military. Admittedly, I'm sure your opinion is more directly informed than mine is. I can't imagine that's an easy row to hoe and didn't intend to suggest that. I'm not trying to pull the 'I'm a marginalized witness!' card here, you don't have to hedge your opinion on my account as a preemptive apologetic withdraw strategy. I'm sure you don't think your friends and contacts are assholes and secretly monsters, but when the order comes down the line that the fags gotta go there won't be a soul in a position of authority who looks to delay that outcome or protest meaningfully against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 11 minutes ago, WinterFox said: I'm not trying to pull the 'I'm a marginalized witness!' card here, you don't have to hedge your opinion on my account as a preemptive apologetic withdraw strategy. I'm sure you don't think your friends and contacts are assholes and secretly monsters, but when the order comes down the line that the fags gotta go there won't be a soul in a position of authority who looks to delay that outcome or protest meaningfully against it. No don't get me wrong. Who better than someone who has has firsthand experience regarding this to comment on it. If I can ask, are you still enlisted? Or Reserve? Have you heard from any higher ups as to how this might affect your status? If that's too personal I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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