Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Nerevanin

Book readers: Which events from S7 will happen in the books? [spoilers]

Recommended Posts

I'll be doing s7 events only:

- Wall will fall (duh although possibly through the horn and def not with an ice dragon)

- A dragon will be turned by the WW (I think this has to happen to even the odds in the war)

- Sansa will end LF in Winterfell

- Jon and Daenerys will fall in love (and have a child if the blatant foreshadowing pans out)

- Rhaegar and Lyanna were married

- Controversial: But I think Jon really was named Aegon by the prophecy obsessed Rhaegar

- I think Cersei will prob take the throne in the books as well but after fAegon is defeated and Dany takes her forces North setting her up as the final villain of the series

- Freys get wiped out but by Lady Stoneheart instead of Arya

- Cleganebowl (this is wishful thinking but a man can dream!)

 

These seem like plot points that were given by GRRM that D&D did their own shit with to try and make happen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I'll go out on a limb here: almost nothing that happened in season 7 will happen in the books. Dany will land at Dragonstone, her and Jon will eventually hook up and decide to go after the northern threat. Nothing else will be in the books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Mad Madam Mim said:

Littlefinger has to die because of Sansa in the books, I would feel cheated if it happened any other way.

I'm afraid I don't see Bran leaving his man cave beyond the wall to make it to Winterfell though, I reckon he is there for the long haul and will only show up right at the end if at all. It would be too easy and convenient to have a character that knows everything that has and will ever happen at Winterfell and I feel the show has struggled with this. The show brought him back to Winterfell to reveal the Jon's parents bombshell whereas the books have Howland Reed.

I would put a lot of money on the wall coming down in the books.

Bran is far from knowing anything in the books. He can only know what one of the weierwood faces has seen. So he is far less powerfull in the books to begin with. + if he is to inherit the 3ER he will have to get a permanent connection with the weirwood roots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Hodor's Aunt said:

Bran is far from knowing anything in the books. He can only know what one of the weierwood faces has seen. So he is far less powerfull in the books to begin with. + if he is to inherit the 3ER he will have to get a permanent connection with the weirwood roots.

But you do know that the show is way ahead of the books right? Bran in the books is Bran from Season 4. Bran in the end of Season 7 is Bran from Book 7. What do you think the hole fuzz is about among those topics? We want to know what might happen in the future not yet existing books, since you can obviously not compare the books to Season 7, since the Show has overpassed the books. If you read the Bran Chapters in ADWD, you realise that a Greenseer can indeed see beyond the Weirwood trees. That is what Brynden tells Bran.

"Once you have mastered your gifts, you may look where you will and see what the trees have seen, be it yesterday or last year or a thousand ages past. Men live their lives trapped in an eternal present, between the mists of memory and the sea of shadow that is all we know of the days to come. Certain moths live their whole lives in a day, yet to them that little span of time must seem as long as years and decades do to us. An oak may live three hundred years, a redwood tree three thousand. A weirwood will live forever if left undisturbed. To them seasons pass in the flutter of a moth's wing, and past, present, and future are one. Nor will your sight be limited to your godswood. The singers carved eyes into their heart trees to awaken them, and those are the first eyes a new greenseer learns to use … but in time you will see well beyond the trees themselves."

So obviously he learns in the books to do so. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Love the topic, unfortunately its been 6 years since the last book, which is the only book i've read just once. So sadly, with the show and books inevitability blending to a small degree, I forget where people are and what stage of the story they're at. 

However, I do think Howland Reed will be involved in the Aejon reveal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm having a hard time imagining the stuff that happened this season happening in the books.

A few possibilities, but still very different from how they were portrayed in the show.

  • as @Dragonsbone mentioned above, it is likely Bran does develop all seeing powers; even in AGoT, the 3EC grants him a vision that is not weirwood dependent, where he sees stuff all over the world. Through Bran's eyes the reader will get first confirmation of the R + L = J theory, but I don't think Bran will be in much position to actually tell anyone about it. Maybe thru a dream, he'll tell Jon, but the public confirmation can only come from Howland Reed. There won't be a diary of High Septon with a name to tell Sam this, because if there was a marriage, I have a feeling it was a northern style wedding, in front of a weirwood.
  • Gendry will yield a warhammer in battle (but not the ridiculous kind in the show), and someone will finally let him know he is Robert's bastard - my money is on Jaime.
  • There will be a Field of Fire 2.0, but it might involve more than one dragon and one rider; I don't think that will involve a great Dothraki army, because I simply don't see Dany bringing 100k Dothraki over to Westeros. (at best she'll bring a few hundred of the bravest and more loyal warriors, and she'll use them as light mounted archers ought be used)
  • Casterly Rock will fall thanks to Tyrion's knowledge of it, and I think he'll claim it. Now who will he be fighting for at that time, I don't know.
  • the main Sand Snakes will die, but Obara will probably be killed by Darkstar, while Nymeria and Tyene will die in King's Landing; maybe one of them will be taken and imprisoned by Cersei.
  • Cleganebowl - this was foreshadowed in the first book; the show essentially acknowledged it with Sandor's words to his brother "You know who's coming for you. You've always known."
  • Jon-Dany romance; I honestly don't want this to happen, as the whole thing in the show has been so terribly done, that I've soured on the idea of it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Wagshell said:

I don't think there will be another GRRM completed book. Somebody else may be given the rights to finish them though. 

What a ridiculous statement. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 30.08.2017 at 4:27 PM, Lord Varys said:

 

Littlefinger will die, of course, but not in this easy way after such a ridiculous badly written fake plot. We don't even know why he tried to put Sansa against Arya in the show. What was the point? What did he try to gain there?.

Chaos. Chaos is a ladder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Erkan12 said:

Chaos. Chaos is a ladder.

LOL, no. It isn't, and never was. Chaos helps no one. Keeping your enemies off balance and distracted is one thing, but being in the middle of chaos yourself means you can be killed rather easily. There is a reason why Littlefinger had Lysa keep the Vale out of the war he helped to create. If there had been chaos in the Vale, Littlefinger would never have been the Lord Protector of anything.

From Littlefinger's POV there is no reason given in the show why he should want to pitch Arya against Sansa or what he could hope to gain from convincing Sansa to kill Arya. I mean, will she love him more after he has convinced her to kill her sister? Why should she? What issues does Littlefinger actually have with Arya? It is Jon who threatens him in the crypts and Bran who pretty much reveals that he might know things he should not know. What issues does he have with Arya?

I mean, the story here could have been pretty interesting if Sansa had decided to marry Littlefinger to gain more (informal) power and Arya was determined to prevent that marriage or kill Littlefinger. Then there would have been a much better reason why Sansa and Littlefinger both might have wanted to make Arya go away.

But there is nothing like that in the show. Nothing at all. It is just a completely ridiculous plot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mainly just the stuff involving Jon and Dany (both their relationship and him being the one to convince her of the Others), the alliance between Cersei and Euron, and the downfall of Littlefinger at Sansa's hands. Other than that I don't think much else will be very similar. The southern war won't even be recognisable, and I imagine the northern plot won't be "nothing happens while we wait for Jon to come back" but will involve Stannis to some greater degree. The Vale won't be relegated to northern stooges, the Riverlands aren't going to disappear, etc.

In this season in particular, but also in the last two, the show has cut or killed any significant, independent character who isn't a Stark, a Lannister or Dany, and those who haven't been cut or killed are just companions given the occasional line to justify them still being there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SerMudz said:

What a ridiculous statement. 

It truly isn't.  With five spin offs potentially being mooted GRRM will be very busy.  He can't afford for yet another TV show to be the canon medium for his tale or world building.  The first volume of Fire and Blood is his priority now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The show is waaay ahead and waaay off track from the real story at this point. I don't see too much of what happened in Season 7 happening in the next book. I mean, Jon's still dead. Tyrion just escaped slavery. Arya is still in Braavos. Sansa's in the Eyrie. Dany just met the Khalasar... and on and on. More of the Season 6 stuff will happen. Plus, you know, the actual plot and whatever ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1) Dany arriving at Dragonstone.

2) A lot of people seem to think there will be a second Dance of the Dragons with Dany vs Aegon in the books.  I disagree.  If there is a second dance it will be vs the Others who will have a Dragon in their possession.  Therefore I actually think Aegon will NOT successfully conquer Westeros (my money is on him siding with Dorne but then a grayscale plague causing decimation of his armies) and I am certain that Cersei will be the Queen of Westeros when Dany arrives.  Aegon, and what is left of his forces, will join Dany.  Or it could be the fate she gave to the Tarlys is what she'll do to Aegon.

3) I think it's obvious that Jon and Dany are going to get together.  I don't mind that.  What I do mind is that Jon will probably become King in the North.  And that probably means the Battle of the Bastards will happen and that Jon will go to Dany to try and persuade her to join his cause against the Others.

4) The mission to capture a Wight may happen.  I actually think that may well happen in the books.  Although it wouldn't be the same individuals who do the ranging.  It may even involve Davos sailing up the coast (so we get it all from his POV).  There is little sense of urgency in the books about the impending Others invasion so GRRM can easily take his time and not have to worry about people teleporting everywhere.  The reason why it's not as absurd as people think is because no one believes these things exist and it would be the fastest and easiest way to make people see (this whole thing is the biggest plot hole in the books and has been since the very first Bran chapter).

5) I think the Wall will come down at Eastwatch in the books and not (just?) Castle Black.  There is a very good chance it will be a turned Dragon that does the majority of the damage.

6) Arya will kill the Freys.  That will be the main pay off about Nymeria and the Wolf Pack.

7) Sansa and Littlefinger will be in Winterfell and it will be Sansa that condemns Littlefinger to death.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 30. 8. 2017 at 9:36 PM, Lot Seven said:

Why would Cersei and Euron get together in the books? Euron is sailing for Daenerys... And although I highly doubt Dany will marry him, she might keep him around for a while, like Cersei does in the show? I mean, letting him turn away wouldn't be very smart, with her needing boats and all that. What am I missing?

Because of the spoiler Aeron chapter, although there is practically nothing that would explicitly hint at the alliance.

On 31. 8. 2017 at 4:34 PM, Wagshell said:

I don't think there will be another GRRM completed book. Somebody else may be given the rights to finish them though. 

If this actually happens, I hope that it is not D&D who are given rights to finish the books.

 

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

LOL, no. It isn't, and never was. Chaos helps no one. Keeping your enemies off balance and distracted is one thing, but being in the middle of chaos yourself means you can be killed rather easily. There is a reason why Littlefinger had Lysa keep the Vale out of the war he helped to create. If there had been chaos in the Vale, Littlefinger would never have been the Lord Protector of anything.

From Littlefinger's POV there is no reason given in the show why he should want to pitch Arya against Sansa or what he could hope to gain from convincing Sansa to kill Arya. I mean, will she love him more after he has convinced her to kill her sister? Why should she? What issues does Littlefinger actually have with Arya? It is Jon who threatens him in the crypts and Bran who pretty much reveals that he might know things he should not know. What issues does he have with Arya?

I mean, the story here could have been pretty interesting if Sansa had decided to marry Littlefinger to gain more (informal) power and Arya was determined to prevent that marriage or kill Littlefinger. Then there would have been a much better reason why Sansa and Littlefinger both might have wanted to make Arya go away.

But there is nothing like that in the show. Nothing at all. It is just a completely ridiculous plot.

Thank you for this post. The reason why LF tried to pit Sansa against Arya will probably be the biggest mystery in GOT because, as you said, there is basically no reason for it. Arya knows nothing that could hurt LF. If he was afraid that Arya would drag Sansa from his sphere of influence, cool, but did they really think that he'd make Sansa kill also her crippled brother and the half-brother that is KITN?

After Season6 finale I hoped for Sansa to actually turning to the dark side and marry LF when she realizes that the lords overlooked her and elected Jon. But nothing like this happened because Team Stark has to win and be the good guys all the time... :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

4) The mission to capture a Wight may happen.  I actually think that may well happen in the books.  Although it wouldn't be the same individuals who do the ranging.  It may even involve Davos sailing up the coast (so we get it all from his POV).  There is little sense of urgency in the books about the impending Others invasion so GRRM can easily take his time and not have to worry about people teleporting everywhere.  The reason why it's not as absurd as people think is because no one believes these things exist and it would be the fastest and easiest way to make people see (this whole thing is the biggest plot hole in the books and has been since the very first Bran chapter).

If this does happen, one thing that, for sure, will not be the same, is that the show & tell event will not be in broad daylight, since book wights don't move in daylight.

But I really don't think it will happen. With winter actually a big factor in the books, travel to and from the Wall will be more and more difficult. Even by sea, the narrow sea will be raging. So maybe there will be a plot to prove to the lords of Westeros, not just Cersei, or whoever is in King's Landing at the time, that the threat beyond the Wall is real, but I think it will be done very differently, and it may be that, by the time everyone south of the Neck learn about the thread, the Others are already passed the Wall. Technically that may be the case in the show, too, because I think the NK got to the Wall before Jon and Dany got to KL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

Thank you for this post. The reason why LF tried to pit Sansa against Arya will probably be the biggest mystery in GOT because, as you said, there is basically no reason for it. Arya knows nothing that could hurt LF. If he was afraid that Arya would drag Sansa from his sphere of influence, cool, but did they really think that he'd make Sansa kill also her crippled brother and the half-brother that is KITN?

The real Littlefinger would either have killed Bran directly during their conversation or would have immediately taken steps to arrange a mortal accident for him or poison his food. The real Littlefinger is no moron.

And the whole Jon threat also makes no sense. I mean, why should Jon really oppose a Littlefinger-Sansa match? The man saved his ass during the battle against Ramsay. Does't he deserve a reward for this kind of thing? And in the end - shouldn't this intervention on behalf of the Starks not also buy Littlefinger a pardon in the end? Sure, he betrayed Ned and had Lysa poison Jon Arryn and write the letter, but shouldn't his ultimate decision to back the Starks gain him something? Jon also pardoned those traitors who backed the Boltons, right? And even Stannis pardoned those who originally supported Renly, etc.

1 hour ago, Nerevanin said:

After Season6 finale I hoped for Sansa to actually turning to the dark side and marry LF when she realizes that the lords overlooked her and elected Jon. But nothing like this happened because Team Stark has to win and be the good guys all the time... :(

Well, we can hope that Littlefinger really ends up consummating his relationship with Sansa in the books. That's what he wants and that's at least part of what he is working towards. Not sure if they are going to marry but even that could happen. This whole relationship is very interesting and Sansa doesn't have to go 'dark' to become an accomplished and successful schemer. If you want to do good things Littlefinger's method of manipulation could help you with that, too. Not to mention that Sansa has a lot of enemies she has to get even with - the Lannisters, the Tyrells, etc.

49 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

If this does happen, one thing that, for sure, will not be the same, is that the show & tell event will not be in broad daylight, since book wights don't move in daylight.

But I really don't think it will happen. With winter actually a big factor in the books, travel to and from the Wall will be more and more difficult. Even by sea, the narrow sea will be raging. So maybe there will be a plot to prove to the lords of Westeros, not just Cersei, or whoever is in King's Landing at the time, that the threat beyond the Wall is real, but I think it will be done very differently, and it may be that, by the time everyone south of the Neck learn about the thread, the Others are already passed the Wall. Technically that may be the case in the show, too, because I think the NK got to the Wall before Jon and Dany got to KL.

There is no reason for a wight hunt in the books. Jon already has corpses in cold storage at the Wall which may or may not rise at one point in the future. There might be some sort of Great Council between various factions later on discussing a potential united campaign against the Others, but we can be very sure that the evidence presented during such a council would be mostly written reports and the testimony of witnesses who actually saw the Others and wights. They could also provide them with body parts of wights as the Old Bear intended to do. But if they did that they most likely would not go out there to search out the huge wight army but rather chance on some stragglers. We can be reasonably certain that there will be some rangings before the huge attack on the Wall begins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 31/08/2017 at 4:34 PM, Wagshell said:

I don't think there will be another GRRM completed book. Somebody else may be given the rights to finish them though. 

 

19 hours ago, SerMudz said:

What a ridiculous statement. 

Really? Why? I think there's a very big chance he won't complete and publish the next book during his lifetime. I'm just surprised it's not a wider opinion. The books will be released, but maybe not during his life. Of course there's a good chance I'm wrong too, but it's hardly ridiculous to say a man of his age and lifestyle might not complete a long term project.Lots of people have had their work completed by others and released after their death.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Wagshell said:

 

Really? Why? I think there's a very big chance he won't complete and publish the next book during his lifetime. I'm just surprised it's not a wider opinion. The books will be released, but maybe not during his life. Of course there's a good chance I'm wrong too, but it's hardly ridiculous to say a man of his age and lifestyle might not complete a long term project.Lots of people have had their work completed by others and released after their death.

He's only 68 though and there's no reason to think he's near death. No wonder he gets so offended by fans assuming he's going to pop his clogs anytime 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×