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John Meta

The missing Arya-Sansa scene?

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After the discussion of what was transpiring between Arya and Sansa, I feel either I missed something, or, a scene was missing. I am not sure what happened in that entire affair. Was Arya in on this? Was Sansa playing Littlefinger the whole time, by herself? Did Three-Eyed Raven step in an resolve the issue? I'm not sure, and it feels like there is a missing scene that would have brought this into clarity. What are your comments on, what happened in Winterfell in season 7?

From what I could discern, I am concluding that, Arya did not know, and Sansa did not know; but somewhere Sansa figured it out, and Three-Eyed Raven filled in the details? I have usually had little problem with following this series, but this is one area I am not able to discern what transpired.

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Arya knew. Look at the smug look on her face after Sansa points her accusation towards Littlefinger. Also, Arya has the dagger she gave to Sansa in the previous episode. They must have conspired off-screen, maybe after Three-Eyed Raven set them straight. 

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Yes, Arya knew, Bran knew, but I also think Royce knew.
Unfortunately, nothing on screen that four foreshadow this. I would've loved to see Sansa briefly chat with Royce (similar to LF chatting with him 2 episodes ago) and then have her head for a dinner with Bran and Arya. Just the first 10 seconds of that dinner, with very uncomfortable looking Stark kids.

That would've hinted towards something, but we now missed everything, except Arya giving Sansa the dagger, but  having it when she entered the great hall (which was a dead give away for me, you don't let a trained assassin enter a courtroom with sword and dagger to hear she's being accused of treason).

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I saw a spoiler summary of the final episode before it actually aired, which described a scene between Sansa and Bran, where Bran describes how Littlefinger betrayed the North. Pretty much everything else the summary described was spot on, so I'm assuming a scene was shot, but that the showrunners decided not to include it, so that there would be some tension in the scene where Littlefinger is executed, because we don't know by then what is going to happen. Had we seen a scene before hand where it is revealed that Sansa is aware of Littlefinger's treachery, then the scene is less tense, because we know before hand what will happen.

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The whole thing felt disjointed because they wanted it to be a surprise to the audience. Whether that was the right decision in the end I'm not sure. I guess Arya handing Sansa the dagger was a hint that things were ok between them?

I am probably just biased in favor of the whole thing because it ended up with Littlefinger dead, to be honest. Dead at the hand of Arya, the command of Sansa, with Bran finally stepping up and with a selection of Littlefinger's own slimy words thrown in this face - couldn't be better.

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4 hours ago, aryaready said:

Arya knew. Look at the smug look on her face after Sansa points her accusation towards Littlefinger. Also, Arya has the dagger she gave to Sansa in the previous episode. They must have conspired off-screen, maybe after Three-Eyed Raven set them straight. 

Arya also knew that the dagger was LF's and not Tyrion's (as he had told Catelyn), so she must have been in on that meeting where Bran presumably filled Sansa in.

Arya asking Sansa "Are you sure you want to do this?" was about Sansa offing LF, not about Sansa putting Arya on trial.

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It did feel to me like the way it was portrayed was purely to play with the audience. This Sansa vs Arya arguing act did not really gain them anything. They didn't learn any new information because of it. It provided the twist at the right time though.

I guess it got them all into a room where a trial could be held and judgement passed. Though they could have arrested him sooner and dragged him in.

If the above mentioned scene with Bran was intended then that could make more sense and Bran persuaded Sansa that Littlefinger needed to die. Sansa already didn't trust him but maybe she needed that final detail to go as far as executing him.

I don't think the twist was worth the loss of that scene. I would have preferred the Bran Sansa scene. The real pay-off here was the (at long last) execution of Littlefinger. The twist that Sansa pulled didn't really add much to that pay off and the way it was done may even have detracted from it.

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It was obvious that the stark children plotted beforehand .Sansa's charges were all provided by bran except the lysa murder.

i don't understand why this thread was started ,i think the scene was pretty obvious .

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39 minutes ago, Danny- said:

It was obvious that the stark children plotted beforehand .Sansa's charges were all provided by bran except the lysa murder.

i don't understand why this thread was started ,i think the scene was pretty obvious .

it isnt obvious at all, Sansa had knowledge of every charge except LF final betrayal of Ned, you can confirm this by looking at the scene, Sansa its calmed when presenting the charges, only when she talks about Ned´s betrayal she gets tearful eyes.

it would've worked any other way,  i was left waiting for that scene of Bran bitch slapping his sisters with knowledge about LF schemes, The only clues to the fact that the Stark siblings were working together was in the great hall, when Arya steps in with the dagger and needle, second one when she says to Sansa ¨alright get on with it¨ while throwing a look at LF direction, then when she with a smug ass smile tells LF that her sister had asked him a question. other than that we have no indications that the Stark siblings were actually on the same page, if they did that scene where Bran explains everything to Sansa then it wouldve been for the best, as others have pointed out, the real payoff was LF death.

I think they eve let Royce in on the train, and i think he didnt needed the confession about Lysa, the fact that Sansa placed the guilt of Jon Arryn dead on LF lap was more than enough for him to turn, after all he mustve been yearning for that day too..

now how will sweetrobin react? he is the true Lord Protector, and he did love LF, Sansa will have some explaining to do next season (unless Arya wears LF face) so they dont lose the Vale support, perhaps we will get a snip of Sansa's true storyline in the vale?.. she gaining control over Sweetrobin maybe even marrying him.. 

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5 hours ago, VenezuelanLord said:

it isnt obvious at all, Sansa had knowledge of every charge except LF final betrayal of Ned, you can confirm this by looking at the scene, Sansa its calmed when presenting the charges, only when she talks about Ned´s betrayal she gets tearful eyes.

it would've worked any other way,  i was left waiting for that scene of Bran bitch slapping his sisters with knowledge about LF schemes, The only clues to the fact that the Stark siblings were working together was in the great hall, when Arya steps in with the dagger and needle, second one when she says to Sansa ¨alright get on with it¨ while throwing a look at LF direction, then when she with a smug ass smile tells LF that her sister had asked him a question. other than that we have no indications that the Stark siblings were actually on the same page, if they did that scene where Bran explains everything to Sansa then it wouldve been for the best, as others have pointed out, the real payoff was LF death.

I think they eve let Royce in on the train, and i think he didnt needed the confession about Lysa, the fact that Sansa placed the guilt of Jon Arryn dead on LF lap was more than enough for him to turn, after all he mustve been yearning for that day too..

now how will sweetrobin react? he is the true Lord Protector, and he did love LF, Sansa will have some explaining to do next season (unless Arya wears LF face) so they dont lose the Vale support, perhaps we will get a snip of Sansa's true storyline in the vale?.. she gaining control over Sweetrobin maybe even marrying him.. 

You misunderstood me ,the author of this thread watched the scene,and after watching the scene he didn't know if arya was in on sansa's plans,he asked if sansa was playing little finger and so on.

it's pretty obvious after u watch the scene and sansa arya and bran plotted together.

ps: sansa didn't have knowledge of the tears of lys,she didn't have knowledge of the letter that lysa sent was written by LF,she didn't have knowledge of LF putting the dagger on ned's neck.i think bran provided this info.

and sweet robin,the sickly boy,i think he will herd to lord royce's advice,and whem he find out th LF murdered his mom he will probably throw his dolla out of the moon door

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There was a cut scene where Sansa was going to have Arya killed but apparently she went to Bran first and had him Google search the world wide wierwood web and look up Littlefinger's past and then she realized that LF was the real problem.  If she met with Arya after that is unclear. 

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9 hours ago, Iotun said:

I saw a spoiler summary of the final episode before it actually aired, which described a scene between Sansa and Bran, where Bran describes how Littlefinger betrayed the North. Pretty much everything else the summary described was spot on, so I'm assuming a scene was shot, but that the showrunners decided not to include it, so that there would be some tension in the scene where Littlefinger is executed, because we don't know by then what is going to happen. Had we seen a scene before hand where it is revealed that Sansa is aware of Littlefinger's treachery, then the scene is less tense, because we know before hand what will happen.

Yep, that scene was cut apparently: http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-08-30/cut-game-of-thrones-finale-scene-reveals-sansa-used-bran-to-check-up-on-arya-before-making-that-decision/

This is how I gather it played out: 

 - The tension between the sisters was legit. Arya did threaten to kill Sansa, Sansa did go to LF and get that 'worst motives' speech and decide she needed to kill Arya first.

 - Then she went to Bran because she suddenly remembered that Bran knows things and Bran filled her in on LFs role in killing Jon Arryn and initiating the War of the 5 Kings, etc.

- So then Sansa went to Arya with the plan to try and execute him. They likely went to Royce ahead of the trial too, to fill him in.

The key problems with this are #1 Arya somehow forgetting that Sansa was screaming and crying and trying to stop Ned from being executed (she needed to be held back IIRC) and she clearly thought she had helped cut a deal to spare his life, and #2 Not relying on Bran's clearly unimpeachable information from the beginning.

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2 hours ago, Ser Hyle said:

Yep, that scene was cut apparently: http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-08-30/cut-game-of-thrones-finale-scene-reveals-sansa-used-bran-to-check-up-on-arya-before-making-that-decision/

This is how I gather it played out: 

 - The tension between the sisters was legit. Arya did threaten to kill Sansa, Sansa did go to LF and get that 'worst motives' speech and decide she needed to kill Arya first.

 - Then she went to Bran because she suddenly remembered that Bran knows things and Bran filled her in on LFs role in killing Jon Arryn and initiating the War of the 5 Kings, etc.

- So then Sansa went to Arya with the plan to try and execute him. They likely went to Royce ahead of the trial too, to fill him in.

The key problems with this are #1 Arya somehow forgetting that Sansa was screaming and crying and trying to stop Ned from being executed (she needed to be held back IIRC) and she clearly thought she had helped cut a deal to spare his life, and #2 Not relying on Bran's clearly unimpeachable information from the beginning.

And this confirms the big problem with that arc. It does nothing for the character development of Sansa or Arya. After Jon explicitly warned them about the great threat posed by the White Walkers, they did nothing useful to prepare Winterfell. Arya could have been training people to fight. Sansa had 1 scene giving orders, but she could have been shown actually planning a defense of Winterfell with the other lords.

We see them bickering like children for what is implied to be months. Sansa, despite everything Littlefinger has put her through, isn't any smarter. She falls right back into Littlefinger's game, as does Arya (whose spy skills are garbage), and Bran has to Deus Ex Machina Littlefinger away. As stupid and sloppy as Littlefinger was this season, the girls should have been able to outplay him, but they were even dumber. 

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There was a lot missing.  

They showed us scenes out off context to force the audience to assume there was discord between the sisters.  

Then they showed us an outcome that contradicted, or appeared to, what we had previously been shown. 

What they didn't do was provide the context surrounding those earlier scenes that would provide adequate explanation for all the events.  

It's basically like a murder mystery where during the third act reveal, they introduce a new character as the killer.  It's an unsatisfying resolution because the audience goes away feeling cheated.  

"Sherlock, who did it?"

"Aliens Watson. Aliens from the planet Uranus because Lord Battersea matched all the genetic markers they needed for harvesting organs for their version of a Cobb salad."

"Wait... what?!"

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So it seems it was all true that nonsense, but then sansa went to bran and not the other way around, so he would let one of them die?

If Arya was in on it why would she say "are you sure" and look around at the guards?

Royce wants LF dead, but why would LF rely on him? He had lots of minions as seen by the boat rescuing of sansa.

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Arya never threatened Sansa's life. I cant believe how many people misinterpreted that scene. 

Anyway, the whole winterfell plot was poorly conceived and horribly written. Yes, the real Arya and Sansa were hardly close as children, but not even LF's scheming should have got them to turn on each other so easily as they did in the show in eps 5 & 6 this season. The whole drama was silly, particularly after all they had been through and how much they had changed and learned.

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At some point you just have to realize that things happen on the show because the writers want them to, logic be damned.

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42 minutes ago, Dragonslack said:

So it seems it was all true that nonsense, but then sansa went to bran and not the other way around, so he would let one of them die?

If Arya was in on it why would she say "are you sure" and look around at the guards?

Royce wants LF dead, but why would LF rely on him? He had lots of minions as seen by the boat rescuing of sansa.

Of course Arya knew, at that point anyway. The entire 'trial' was a farce to try and execute Littlefinger. 

When Arya asked "Are you sure you want to do this?", she was essentially asking Sansa if she was ready and willing to execute Littlefinger now. It wasn't about Arya. She 100% already knew at that point the trial this was all about LF.

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