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John Meta

The missing Arya-Sansa scene?

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2 minutes ago, Tadco26 said:

At some point you just have to realize that things happen on the show because the writers want them to, logic be damned.

This also.

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49 minutes ago, Dragonslack said:

If Arya was in on it why would she say "are you sure" and look around at the guards?

She was asking Sansa "Are you sure you want to handle LF this way?"

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Indeed.  No one Arya was wearing an Arya face and pretending to be the child who once lived in Winterfel.  I imagine it is like a boxer/fencer pretending to have bad footwork to invite a particular attack so that in attacking the opponent makes and expected opening in his own defense.

 

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51 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

She was asking Sansa "Are you sure you want to handle LF this way?"

Exactly. Also, she didn't seem surprised when Littlefinger got called out instead, and turned smugly towards him saying that 'her sister asked him a question'. Arya knew by that point, definitely.

Not that that makes it have sense though. But, I guess, creatively it made sense because the producers wanted it to happen that way.

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13 hours ago, Iotun said:

I saw a spoiler summary of the final episode before it actually aired, which described a scene between Sansa and Bran, where Bran describes how Littlefinger betrayed the North. Pretty much everything else the summary described was spot on, so I'm assuming a scene was shot, but that the showrunners decided not to include it, so that there would be some tension in the scene where Littlefinger is executed, because we don't know by then what is going to happen. Had we seen a scene before hand where it is revealed that Sansa is aware of Littlefinger's treachery, then the scene is less tense, because we know before hand what will happen.

Or the scene was shot for the 'extended edition' coming soon to Blu-Ray and DVD.

It was obvious that the scene had to be presented the way it was. Otherwise the reveal is shit. You only care how LF gets the slicy-slicy after you know he is done.

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7 minutes ago, Lady Sansa Stark said:

Exactly. Also, she didn't seem surprised when Littlefinger got called out instead, and turned smugly towards him saying that 'her sister asked him a question'. Arya knew by that point, definitely.

Not that that makes it have sense though. But, I guess, creatively it made sense because the producers wanted it to happen that way.

The fact that she showed up at all.

Seriously, Sansa has to talk to Arya first because only an idiot tries to pull a surprise on a faceless man. And she has to talk to Bran to know the charges.

As a rule, it is not 'bad writing' to fail to spell out every detail. In fact doing so is considered to be tedious and crap. You know that Bran is a the three eyed crow. You know that Sansa has suddenly worked all this stuff. It does not take a degree in nuclear physics to work out how.

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2 hours ago, Dragonslack said:

So it seems it was all true that nonsense, but then sansa went to bran and not the other way around, so he would let one of them die?

If Arya was in on it why would she say "are you sure" and look around at the guards?

Royce wants LF dead, but why would LF rely on him? He had lots of minions as seen by the boat rescuing of sansa.

If Arya wasn't in on it there was no way she would have walked into that room. But then D&D think she's stupid

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Honestly, the "twist trial" felt right out of a kids movie. GRRM would never have written something so dumb.

I think a scene where Bran exposes Littlefinger to Arya and Sansa followed by Arya assassinating him would have been far better.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, hallam said:

Or the scene was shot for the 'extended edition' coming soon to Blu-Ray and DVD.

It was obvious that the scene had to be presented the way it was. Otherwise the reveal is shit. You only care how LF gets the slicy-slicy after you know he is done.

Indeed.  It was for dramatic effect that the audience initially thinks Sansa is saying these things to Arya and the twist is she is saying it to Littlefinger.

It amazes me how many people who watch the show seem to fail to realise the large bulk of interaction has to happen off camera.  Otherwise you may as well turn the whole show into a soap opera.

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7 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

If Arya wasn't in on it there was no way she would have walked into that room. But then D&D think she's stupid

When Arya handed Sansa the dagger, I saw that as Arya telling Sansa that she wasn't her enemy and that Sansa needs to protect herself from other enemies, i.e. LF. So that to me shows Arya to be written as more discerning amongst the two.

Maybe there was a scene with Bran, but even without it, I doubt either of the sisters would've wanted the other dead/banished.

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3 minutes ago, Leto Atreides said:

Honestly, the "twist trial" felt right out of a kids movie. GRRM would never have written something so dumb.

I think a scene where Bran exposes Littlefinger to Arya and Sansa followed by Arya assassinating him would have been far better.

 

 

I don't know about that.  GRRM wrote the script for the Battle of the Blackwater that included Bronn and the Hound's cock measuring competition which for me is still by far the single most cringe worthy scene in the entire series.

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15 hours ago, aryaready said:

Arya knew. Look at the smug look on her face after Sansa points her accusation towards Littlefinger. Also, Arya has the dagger she gave to Sansa in the previous episode. They must have conspired off-screen, maybe after Three-Eyed Raven set them straight. 

I'm not sure Arya knew, that is the issue for me with this. Agreed, there is evidence that she did know, but then there is also evidence that she didn't know. But without clarity, there's no way to know what is really happening. The fact that you're giving evidences of why Arya knew, shows that you don't know and are having to formulate hypotheses and provide evidence in an attempt to support your claim. Which means there is no clarity. We spent a good part of last week providing evidences for hypotheses about, who knew what; and we still don't have clarification. We're still hypothesizing.

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14 hours ago, Iotun said:

I saw a spoiler summary of the final episode before it actually aired, which described a scene between Sansa and Bran, where Bran describes how Littlefinger betrayed the North. Pretty much everything else the summary described was spot on, so I'm assuming a scene was shot, but that the showrunners decided not to include it, so that there would be some tension in the scene where Littlefinger is executed, because we don't know by then what is going to happen. Had we seen a scene before hand where it is revealed that Sansa is aware of Littlefinger's treachery, then the scene is less tense, because we know before hand what will happen.

Yeah, I agree about the tension. And I can see why the writers didn't include a clarification scene prior to the trial, it would've robbed the scene of the payoff of surprise. But I wish they either would've peppered the scene with quick flashbacks to provide clarity as the scene transpired, or someway told us what actually happened because now I am not sure what was going on between Arya and Sansa previously. I have my ideas and it looks to me that Arya was genuinely threatening Sansa, and they were not aware of Littlefinger's treachery; until at some unknown point Sansa either figured it out, or, 3ER just straight told her what was going on. Other than that, I have no certainty as to what happened prior to Sansa charging Littlefinger. It is still a mystery.

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14 hours ago, Mikkel said:

The whole thing felt disjointed because they wanted it to be a surprise to the audience. Whether that was the right decision in the end I'm not sure. I guess Arya handing Sansa the dagger was a hint that things were ok between them?

I feel it was the right decision to not ruin the surprise of Sansa charging Littlefinger, but surely there could have been some clarity brought after the death of Littlefinger. Something like, when Arya and Sansa were together at the end, an exchange of dialogue Arya saying "How did you know?" "Bran." or Sansa saying "When did you suspect him?" "When he left the message in the most obvious place." Anything just to clarify what actually transpired.

14 hours ago, Mikkel said:

I am probably just biased in favor of the whole thing because it ended up with Littlefinger dead, to be honest. Dead at the hand of Arya, the command of Sansa, with Bran finally stepping up and with a selection of Littlefinger's own slimy words thrown in this face - couldn't be better.

I do agree it was a great scene.

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11 hours ago, Newstar said:

Arya also knew that the dagger was LF's and not Tyrion's (as he had told Catelyn), so she must have been in on that meeting where Bran presumably filled Sansa in.

That is a good point. So clearly Arya was in the know at the trial itself. Good call. But what I'm really wondering about is, prior to this did Arya know; was she on to Littlefinger? Did Sansa know? Did she suspect? Was she playing Littlefinger? or did 3ER basically roll in and say "Littlefinger is playing the both of you, here are his crimes - now get him so I can get back to me visionings i got important stuff to do here"

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11 hours ago, Danny- said:

It was obvious that the stark children plotted beforehand .Sansa's charges were all provided by bran except the lysa murder.

i don't understand why this thread was started ,i think the scene was pretty obvious .

It's not the trial scene, per se; I am talking about what has transpired in the episodes prior to this (and even some scenes prior to the trial scene). Some people hypothesized Arya was playing Littlefinger the whole time. Was she? I suspected that Sansa had figured out that Littlefinger was playing Arya (when she sent Brienne away, it seemed to me she did so so Littlefinger couldn't use her against Arya) and was turning the tables on him. But, was she? I still don't know. When was the truth made known to them? How?

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5 hours ago, Charlie Hustle said:

you guys mean this???

 

Bran spilling the beans scene got axed

 

5 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

There was a cut scene where Sansa was going to have Arya killed but apparently she went to Bran first and had him Google search the world wide wierwood web and look up Littlefinger's past and then she realized that LF was the real problem.  If she met with Arya after that is unclear. 

 

5 hours ago, Ser Hyle said:

 

Oh wow so there actually is a missing scene. Okay that makes perfect sense now. Well I guess that's it. Case closed. Thanks for the replies, all.

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Arya clearly knew about the trial beforehand. As for knowing about LF the entire time, I believe she did but it's less clear. Bran being more affectionate with Arya makes me believe Bran told Arya who their biggest problem lie...  Baelish.  Arya then gave Sansa the dagger as her last test/clue for Sansa after questioning her family loyalties. This season was just as much a trial of Sansa's loyalties as it was for Littlefinger. Because you can't be team Stark with Littlefinger as your mentor & closest advisor.  You can't be Team Stark if you're having thoughts of usurping your brother (cousin) as rightfully elected ruler...

Arya asks Sansa if she's sure she wants to do this "now" because we just saw Sansa in deep thoughts on the battlement. She had to take time  think it over after the obvious offscreen meeting between the siblings. So Arya puts Sansa's loyalty on trial first. Are you sure about now?  Sansa says honor demands. Arya says honor demands what?  Who's on trial again?  Not Arya. Not Baelish yet. But Sansa. 

Sansa says honor demands that I protect my family & the North from all who would do them harm. That hasn't always been her m.o.  Arya tells her to get it overwith then. By openly charging Baelish, Sansa passed her Stark loyalty test. She broke free from Baelish because she could never be Team Stark & the true Lady of Winterfell with their biggest enemy Littlefinger around. 

Sansa had been conflicted up until that point. Notice both her scenes on the battlement. 1st in deep thought & 2nd with Arya when she said he probably really loved her. Arya didn't even acknowledge that sentimental crap for Littlefinger. She simply told Sansa she did the right thing.  Arya isn't even gonna play sympathetic with Sansa on that.  Sansa needs Arya's tough love to keep her grounded in family first & self & others second. 

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6 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

Indeed.  It was for dramatic effect that the audience initially thinks Sansa is saying these things to Arya and the twist is she is saying it to Littlefinger.

It amazes me how many people who watch the show seem to fail to realise the large bulk of interaction has to happen off camera.  Otherwise you may as well turn the whole show into a soap opera.

Also, realize that it is totally fair for the audience to be caught off guard because Littlefinger is.

Whether we could see it coming is irrelevant. Littlefinger was so wrapped up in his plotting that he never would. Like Boris never saw Gove's knife till it ended up in his back.

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20 hours ago, Iotun said:

I saw a spoiler summary of the final episode before it actually aired, which described a scene between Sansa and Bran, where Bran describes how Littlefinger betrayed the North. Pretty much everything else the summary described was spot on, so I'm assuming a scene was shot, but that the showrunners decided not to include it, so that there would be some tension in the scene where Littlefinger is executed, because we don't know by then what is going to happen. Had we seen a scene before hand where it is revealed that Sansa is aware of Littlefinger's treachery, then the scene is less tense, because we know before hand what will happen.

Thanks for that.  I looked it up.  Here's the link:

http://www.gamesradar.com/game-of-thrones-season-7-deleted-scene-reveals-brans-role-in-that-finale-death/

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