Will Tyrion kill Daenerys?

[Aeth3r]

So something stood out to me from the season finale.  I'll get to that at the end, because it seems totally insignificant out of context, and maybe I'm reading too much into it.  First I'll say that I think Daenerys' vision in the House of the Undying is a pretty clear indication that she will die just before the end of the series.  She walks into the throne room covered in snow, pretty obvious what that represents, then she drops her torch on the ground, approaches the throne, and as she's reaching out to it, juuuuust before she touches it, she leaves the room and walks into a tent with her dead child and husband.  Earlier, Quaith says to Jorah "Dragons are fire made flesh, and fire is power".  I think that the dropping of the torch is meant to symbolize her loss of power at some point in the future, and approaching the throne, then going to meet Drogo indicates that she'll die immediately before she is expected to take the throne.  None of this is new, I know.

Of course everyone here knows about the three treasons as well, and most people seem to agree that we've seen the betrayal for blood and money, but not love.  In the original outline for the story (which has admittedly changed a lot) Tyrion and Jon were meant to get into a deadly rivalry over their love of Arya: http://watchersonthewall.com/george-r-r-martins-original-plan-game-thrones/

The show seems to be telling us that Tyrion has fallen in love with Daenerys.  In Meereen he makes the comment "He wasn't the first to love you, and he won't be the last." He's acutely aware of who is falling in love with her at any given moment, has Jorah sent away, and advises her not to go save Jon beyond the wall, and while I wasn't totally sold on him falling for her based on this, the look he gives when Jon goes to her cabin at the end seems to pretty clearly indicate extreme jealousy.  It may be that Martin thought Arya as the love interest was too strange, so he just shifted it over to a different character, maintaining the conflict.

Then there's the "Mad Queen" comparisons that have been popping up all series and Tyrion's clear issue with her temper.  Burning the Tarleys seems to be a bit of a mirror for the burning of the Starks, although it's admittedly not anywhere near as cruel or wanton.  Regardless, it's been made very clear that Tyrion is conflicted about her behaviour, not least when he's watching the battle unfold and afterwards as he's walking through the ashes.

So none of this is really new or anything that hasn't been noticed.  The scene that stuck out to me was when they're at Dragonstone discussing how they should travel back to Winterfell, and Jorah is talking about how she might die if she travels by land, so he recommends she should fly.  He says to her:  "All it takes is one angry man with a crossbow" as the camera cuts to Tyrion, who looks away.  Now, sure, this could just be a reference to Tywin's death put in there for fun, but the fact that he's talking specifically about a scenario in which Daenerys might die and the camera focuses in on Tyrion seems to strongly indicate foreshadowing to me.  They also continually mention that at any point she could be struck by an arrow and killed while flying her dragons into battle (on a side note... Give her a suit of fucking armour, guys, instead of a thin jacket?  lol?)  Again, it could just be that, yeah, that's the most logical threat when you're flying, a random arrow, but from a cinematic standpoint, when characters continually say something like "all it takes is one arrow, all it takes is one man with a crossbow, etc." That's usually in there intentionally as foreshadowing.

So, maybe Tyrion gets jealous and gives Daenerys the Tywin treatment when he realizes he can't ever have her and/or she stops listening to his advice (which has been admittedly bad) and turns on her?  Another crossbow slaying?

[GhostNymeria]

I don't think Tyrion will actually kill Daenerys, but when we saw Tyrion's angry look during that love scene, it made me think of the original outline. Peter Dinklage also said that Tyrion is in love with Daenerys in an inteview recently. If we go by the show, it does seem like the original "love triangle" have been shifted to Dany instead of Arya. Tyrion was supposed to meet Arya and fall in love while he was in exile. Instead he met Dany in exile and apparently fell in love with her (according to Dinklage). I wonder where they will take Tyrion's character next season. 

And it makes me wonder if Jon/Dany/Tyrion is going to happen in the books as well, or if D&D changed it.

[EddardSnow]

Dany doesnt know Tyrion exists in that way. Sure I know Jon will feel strange about there being related but i have the feeling that Dany will get pregnant which will be confirmed while in winterfell and when the battle for winterfell happens and Jon will figure out how he feels if dany almost gets hurt or dies. For once i wanna see Dany in trouble and Jon saves the day.

[Ser Wun Wun]

It's hard for me to imagine D&D having their Saint Tyrion murder either Dany (or Jon) out of jealousy.  Even book Tyrion isn't dark enough for that, I think.

The director of the episode also said he wasn't trying to showcase a romantically jealous Tyrion with those shots, he was trying to show a politically concerned Tyrion.  As in, Tyrion doesn't know what the consequences of this romance will be, and that unknown factor has him very worried.  

The interview:  http://www.thedailybeast.com/game-of-thrones-finale-director-no-romantic-jealousy-in-tyrions-reaction-to-jon-and-danys-boat-sex

[LordImp]

No.

[Kajjo]

1 hour ago, Ser Wun Wun said:

Tyrion doesn't know what the consequences of this romance will be, and that unknown factor has him very worried.

That is certainly the most straight-forward interpretation. The new romance makes things not easier and his personal romantic interest is not at the core of this scene.

Tyrion might desire Daenerys, but Daenerys does not consider Tyrion. This is just a one-sided thing and will stay that way. Nothing at all indicates that Daenerys might see more in Tyrion than her counsel.

12 hours ago, Aeth3r said:

I think that the dropping of the torch is meant to symbolize her loss of power at some point in the future, and approaching the throne, then going to meet Drogo indicates that she'll die immediately before she is expected to take the throne.

Yes, I am afraid that is how it is meant and how it will play out eventually. 

 

12 hours ago, Aeth3r said:

Of course everyone here knows about the three treasons as well, and most people seem to agree that we've seen the betrayal for blood and money, but not love.

Could you please elaborate on this? Which betrayels do you see so far? What about the whole prophecy?

[Amaretto]

Unintentionally perhaps. He has really done nothing but harm her cause from the start.

[Sanrast]

16 minutes ago, Amaretto said:

He has really done nothing but harm her cause from the start.

+1

[Kajjo]

Tyrion was of no real help to Daenerys, but unintentionally. Tyrion likes and adores Daenerys.

 

[Lucius Lovejoy]

I would love to see the show have the balls to have one beloved character off another beloved character with a betrayal.  I HIGHLY doubt it will happen, but @Aeth3r you caught some interesting stuff I didn't notice.  I think it is more likely that Tyrion plays the Ned Stark role and fosters Jon and Daenerys' child.

[Kajjo]

41 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

 I think it is more likely that Tyrion plays the Ned Stark role and fosters Jon and Daenerys' child.

Why do you believe this to be likely? He drinks, he talks and he whores. 

I guess, the number of main characters wil be drastically reduces in the last season. Hopefully not too much.

[Lucius Lovejoy]

@Kajjo It seems to make sense to me that he would be the King Regent and foster father at the same time, and would allow for him to carry out wheel breaking, also uniting the Lannisters/Targaryens/Starks.  I used to think Jorah might be the foster father.  I am certain Daenerys dies in childbirth (Like her mom, Jon's mom, and Tyrion's mom).

[Kajjo]

19 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

 I am certain Daenerys dies in childbirth

End of season 8 this could happen, yes. Even likely. 

However, first there is the battle ice against fire and we have to wait who will survive that battle. I guess either Jon or Daenerys will be killed.

For Daenerys to get pregnant and carry to term the timeframe does fit with the battle. First the battle, then a lot might happen....

[JamieM]

Quote

 

[snow is the man]

On 8/30/2017 at 7:21 AM, Ser Wun Wun said:

It's hard for me to imagine D&D having their Saint Tyrion murder either Dany (or Jon) out of jealousy.  Even book Tyrion isn't dark enough for that, I think.

The director of the episode also said he wasn't trying to showcase a romantically jealous Tyrion with those shots, he was trying to show a politically concerned Tyrion.  As in, Tyrion doesn't know what the consequences of this romance will be, and that unknown factor has him very worried.  

The interview:  http://www.thedailybeast.com/game-of-thrones-finale-director-no-romantic-jealousy-in-tyrions-reaction-to-jon-and-danys-boat-sex

THANK YOU for puting this up. I have been freaking out about it

[Sanrast]

On 8/30/2017 at 2:21 PM, Ser Wun Wun said:

It's hard for me to imagine D&D having their Saint Tyrion murder either Dany (or Jon) out of jealousy.  Even book Tyrion isn't dark enough for that, I think.

The director of the episode also said he wasn't trying to showcase a romantically jealous Tyrion with those shots, he was trying to show a politically concerned Tyrion.  As in, Tyrion doesn't know what the consequences of this romance will be, and that unknown factor has him very worried.  

The interview:  http://www.thedailybeast.com/game-of-thrones-finale-director-no-romantic-jealousy-in-tyrions-reaction-to-jon-and-danys-boat-sex

And who exactly is Tyrion? The president of the universe? There was a John Snow-Daenerys sex, and the writers thought it was that important to show Tyrion politically concerned?  Should the other characters report to him when they want to have sex?

It was THE moment. The making love of Ice and Fire,  and the writers wanted to force us watch Tyrion's face during sex?

I really really hate that character.

[Kajjo]

51 minutes ago, Sanrast said:

here was a John Snow-Daenerys sex, and the writers thought it was that important to show Tyrion politically concerned?

Of course, Tyrion is concerned with regards to strategic and politcal aspects. Why not? He thinks and plans a lot, even with more or less reasonable outcome.

52 minutes ago, Sanrast said:

It was THE moment. The making love of Ice and Fire

Indeed. Fire and ice for the first really.

[Megorova]

On 30.08.2017 at 3:36 AM, Aeth3r said:

First I'll say that I think Daenerys' vision in the House of the Undying is a pretty clear indication that she will die just before the end of the series.  She walks into the throne room covered in snow, pretty obvious what that represents, then she drops her torch on the ground, approaches the throne, and as she's reaching out to it, juuuuust before she touches it, she leaves the room and walks into a tent with her dead child and husband.

For some reason people don't notice the most important part of her vision: she goes towards Iron Throne (but Red Keep is burned, and it's winter in there), then she dropes her torch and goes thru gates of The Wall (this is the land of the dead, and her husband and son is there), but AFTER IT she hears her dragons crying/shriking and she says goodbye to her husband, and goes back to the land of living/she wokes up out of her vision. Which means that she will die, but then she will be revived by her dragons or by fire magic <- THIS will be final deed of Melisandre, she will revive Dany and spend on it all her power and dies. 

[EddardSnow]

Tyrion has great respect for Jon and he sees the love happening before Jon and Dany admit it. Tyrions look concern is just game of thrones misdirection like they made it like Sansa and Jon would be enemies but it was just sibling bickering and Sansa still is loyal. Even though she thinks jon needs too be smarter and more ruthless. Tyrion is not they enemy but friend of the parents too whomever child is born

[Jaehaerys Stark]

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 8:36 PM, Aeth3r said:

So something stood out to me from the season finale.  I'll get to that at the end, because it seems totally insignificant out of context, and maybe I'm reading too much into it.  First I'll say that I think Daenerys' vision in the House of the Undying is a pretty clear indication that she will die just before the end of the series.  She walks into the throne room covered in snow, pretty obvious what that represents, then she drops her torch on the ground, approaches the throne, and as she's reaching out to it, juuuuust before she touches it, she leaves the room and walks into a tent with her dead child and husband.  Earlier, Quaith says to Jorah "Dragons are fire made flesh, and fire is power".  I think that the dropping of the torch is meant to symbolize her loss of power at some point in the future, and approaching the throne, then going to meet Drogo indicates that she'll die immediately before she is expected to take the throne.  None of this is new, I know.

Of course everyone here knows about the three treasons as well, and most people seem to agree that we've seen the betrayal for blood and money, but not love.  In the original outline for the story (which has admittedly changed a lot) Tyrion and Jon were meant to get into a deadly rivalry over their love of Arya: http://watchersonthewall.com/george-r-r-martins-original-plan-game-thrones/

The show seems to be telling us that Tyrion has fallen in love with Daenerys.  In Meereen he makes the comment "He wasn't the first to love you, and he won't be the last." He's acutely aware of who is falling in love with her at any given moment, has Jorah sent away, and advises her not to go save Jon beyond the wall, and while I wasn't totally sold on him falling for her based on this, the look he gives when Jon goes to her cabin at the end seems to pretty clearly indicate extreme jealousy.  It may be that Martin thought Arya as the love interest was too strange, so he just shifted it over to a different character, maintaining the conflict.

Then there's the "Mad Queen" comparisons that have been popping up all series and Tyrion's clear issue with her temper.  Burning the Tarleys seems to be a bit of a mirror for the burning of the Starks, although it's admittedly not anywhere near as cruel or wanton.  Regardless, it's been made very clear that Tyrion is conflicted about her behaviour, not least when he's watching the battle unfold and afterwards as he's walking through the ashes.

So none of this is really new or anything that hasn't been noticed.  The scene that stuck out to me was when they're at Dragonstone discussing how they should travel back to Winterfell, and Jorah is talking about how she might die if she travels by land, so he recommends she should fly.  He says to her:  "All it takes is one angry man with a crossbow" as the camera cuts to Tyrion, who looks away.  Now, sure, this could just be a reference to Tywin's death put in there for fun, but the fact that he's talking specifically about a scenario in which Daenerys might die and the camera focuses in on Tyrion seems to strongly indicate foreshadowing to me.  They also continually mention that at any point she could be struck by an arrow and killed while flying her dragons into battle (on a side note... Give her a suit of fucking armour, guys, instead of a thin jacket?  lol?)  Again, it could just be that, yeah, that's the most logical threat when you're flying, a random arrow, but from a cinematic standpoint, when characters continually say something like "all it takes is one arrow, all it takes is one man with a crossbow, etc." That's usually in there intentionally as foreshadowing.

So, maybe Tyrion gets jealous and gives Daenerys the Tywin treatment when he realizes he can't ever have her and/or she stops listening to his advice (which has been admittedly bad) and turns on her?  Another crossbow slaying?

I posted about this on 8/29/17 @ 10:04am.  Ironically, it's almost identical to the original post here.  Here were my thoughts:

"I was going to post about this very thing this morning because I actually wondered the same thing.  He definitely had a look of angst on his face.  I actually have given it great thought and I think I may have it.  The show hasn't talked too much about the details of Dany's vision while in the House of the Undying.  Specifically, the 3 treasons she will know.  One for blood, one for gold, and one for love.  I think the treason for blood was when she allowed Khal Drogo to kill Viseryn.  The treason for gold was obviously when Jorah was spying on her for the Lannisters.  The last treason, I think, will be from Tyrion.  A couple things to consider here.  First off, Tyrion was the one who convinced Dany to exile Jorah when it was found he had been relaying information back to KL.  Tyrion was also the one who convinced Dany to have Daario stay in Mereen, as opposed to traveling to KL.  He made it a point to tell Dany that marrying for political reasons in Westeros was important.  Perhaps he was secretly going to try to convince her down the road that marrying a Lannister would bolster her reputation in Westeros by removing a tyrant Cersei while combining 2 of the most famous houses realm has known. 

Think back to the scene where Tyrion was talking to Dany in the table room at Dragonstone after Jon left to go north of the Wall to capture the wight.  Didn't Tyrion seem a bit underwhelmed when talking to Dany about how it was obvious Jon loved her, and how it seemed she was forming feelings of her own for him.  He wasn't enthused in the least.  That's the same conversation where he pushes her to name a successor, in the event she died. Then, think about when he pleaded with her not to go north to save them after getting the raven that they needed her help.  All of these acts could be viewed as Tyrion pushing her to make decisions that would appear to have the best of intentions.  but from another angle, it would seem that all of these acts could be done out of either him secretly loving Dany, or, more likely to me, wanting to sit on the Iron Throne.  Tyrion has always seemed like he had a good heart.  I believe he does myself.  But that's not to say that he doesn't feel like he would be the best person to rule Westeros.  Especially after he saw her burn the Tarley's alive, and her wanting to initially burn KL as well.  We see Tyrion having that conversation with Varys, another who wants only the best for the realm and the people.  Two of the smartest minds in this game of thrones, who believe themselves champions of the realm, having private chats of their own, away from everyone else.  These are 2 brilliant schemers.  I can definitely see Tyrion being salty that Jon and Dany are in love with one another.  It is putting a major damper on the play he was going to push for to become Dany's partner, if not sole ruler of Westeros.  He questions decisions that they both are making, believing he knows better than they do about what is best for Westeros.  I think we may see Tyrion trying to jump back into the role of being a major player after spending much of this last season on the bench.  Coach, he's ready to get back in the game..."