The hightower and Azor Ahai

[Waters Gate]

Short version:

Lightbringer is perched on the hightower, engulfed in its own flame, while the black stone beneath is a tomb to the first Azor Ahai, who died saving humanity on battle island. Oldtown will be the end battle, whoever is azor ahai will need to be fireproof to grasp ligthbringer and will die wielding it as going up into it.

 

It will take the Others 30 days to break trough the wall in the books, then 50 days to defeat team lannister, and then a 100 days before Azor Ahai sacrifices himself to save humanity at Oldtown, though the days and nights will grow longer and darkness will fall completly over the world instead at the extreme south areas like starfall and sunpsear, these total 180 days will last for perhaps a genneration, they will be measured in Oldtown.

 

After the final battle the Hightowers come out on top, having had acces to all the key information and knowing that the events would be at their advantage. The emerge and perhaps toghether with the maesters they introduce a new era in progress ... perhaps

 

I bring to you a theory of mine that is essentially a throw together of various theory's i had before that came to fit toghether. To explain this theory in a consice way, i would like to explain it step for step trough the various theory's that led up to it.

Theory 1: the hightower is no normal construction. It is a magical construction similar to the wall or Storms End.

As a first argument to this, the tower is almost 800 feet tall and this should by all account be impossible to build by Westerosi, even Hightowers imho. There are other hints to it, like the mysterious base of the hightower, or the rumour Bran the builer had a hand in it. As such, it was my theory that this function is connected to the long night. What function? At the time i thought it was some sort of beacon in the darkness of the long night, or perhaps that it's light would keep the area around it warm and fertile for farming, or that it would hold of others.

Theory 2: During the first long night, Oldtown served as a bastion to which people fled too with all their wealth and knowledge so that ultimatly Oldtown became a vault for artifacts and ancient scrolls.

Various things seem to suggest this to me. Oldtown first of all is the oldest city and one of size, this makes me believe it was already important and sizable during the first long night, if perhaps even the spiritual capital of men in Westeros at the time. Furthermore, Oldtown and the hightower contain a vast repository of knowledge. It is rumoured that the hightower holds a lot of ancient scrolls and treasure, and said that the current lord of Oldtown has locked himself in the tower with his scorcerror sister to consult "ancient scrolls". It is my belief that Oldtown becoming the vault for knowledge during the long night allowed the Hightowers the base of knowledge to start the Citadel. Simply the fact that so much knowledge is concentrated at oldtown seems a good hint for this to me.

Theory 3: during the long night, a important battle was fought  at Oldtown versus the others, if perhaps not the battle that turned the tide for humans against the others

The island upon which the hightower sits is called "battle isle". Noone knows what battle it refers to, it must have been a long time back yet it has been remembered that a battle was fought there. Furthermore, legend has it that there were once dragons present at Oldtown, again it's not known when or for what they were there. The combination of it being a long time back + the potential presence of dragons sees to hint to me to a battle with white walkers. It might perhaps be that at that time the Walkers were not preppared for dragons, and indeed on the surface dragons seem a perfect weapon against others. I also think that dragons were likely never native to Westeros, so it seems to me that if dragons and their riders were there for battle, then they were called there from Faraway Essos to fight something that was very important for humanity indeed. If this was an important battle against the others and perhaps a pivotal one then i'd consider that Azor Ahai might have been present there too.

There is a passage in the "world of ice and fire" that goes like this: "Septon Barth's claim that Valyrians came to Westeros because their priests prophesied that the doom of man would come out the lands beyond the narrow sea can safely be dismissed as nonsense, as many of Barth's queerer beliefs and suppositions". It's to be noted thats it is the oppinion of the Maester supposedly writing it, whereas septon Barths writings are held in high regards as a source of info by the readerbase actually because often true.

Theory 4: On the nature of certain black stone constructs

This theory of mine holds that a good number of constructs build with black fused stone (not nessecarily all) are actually tombs to very important people. This theory of mine rose from contemplating the Nature of Asshai as being a "Necropolis", similar to the Valley of the Kings, dedicated to the Emperors of Yi Ti. A number of hints would seem to suggest that to me. Asshai is a practicly dead city, there don't seem to be original inhabitants and perhaps it was never meant for the living. It's size is pretty much monumental, and most constructs are made of this black stone. The city is infested with shadowbinders and my presumption is that they are some sort of "tomb raiders", with other words they raise the dead from their monuments, this to aquire ancient knowledge and also the treasure. One of the most poignant details that i feel support this idea is that Asshai exports "cursed gold", whereas i would think that cursed gold is typically the product of tomb raiding. As a Necropolis, Asshai would seem to function as a "gateway to the underworld", beyond Asshai lies truly scary things infested with demons and such like in the town called Stygai, so i don't consider it so much a stretch that to go beneath the shadow is going to an underworld inhabited by the death.To pull this further, it would suggest to me that the base of the hightower is a tomb to someone very important too.

in regards to this theory, i also foudn this back on the asoiaf wiki about Stygai: " The name "Stygai" may be a nod to "Stygia" from the story “Shadows in the Moonlight” by Robert E. Howard. In an essay in his Dreamsongs anthology Martin cites reading Howard's story as a formative experience in his (Martin's) development as a reader of fantasy. Martin quotes to a passage referring to Stygia "with its shadow-guarded tombs."

 

And now for the final theory: The hightower is actually a monument dedicated to the first Azor Ahai. The black fused stone base is a tomb for the corpse of Azor Ahai, and on top of the tower sits the sword lightbringer as being perched on a pedestal, though this sword is not easy to recognise because it is engulfed by it's own flame and it's this that makes the light of the hightower

I Think the story goes like this. During the first long night the White walkers went very far, they overrun the north, got past the neck and from there on the country was wide open until they hit the mountains of dorne on one side and Oldtown on the other. And here at Oldtown a stand was made. Since the white walkers by now had become a huge threat to humanity, it spawned the help from people from Essos, among them a man called Azor Ahai who flew to Oldtown on the back of a dragon to help defend it. And here at Oldtown, Azor Ahai managed to deal a crushing blow to the White walkers that would turn the war, be it that he died heroicly in the process. Once the war was over, people decided to errect a monument to this great saviour on battle island which became the hightower.

 

edit: part 2 added below

Part II predictions for the story to come related to this theory.

1 The others will get as far as Oldtown and Dorne south

It would have been too anticlimatic if the walkers would never have gotten past the wall. From there on, where could they be stopped. Winterfell is a mighty fortress, but it is no bottleneck, armies can just walk around it. What Winterfell seems to have is that it might succeed at doing sustainable farming within its walls, providing for a relative small poppulation.

1.1 Epic battle at moat cailin.

Chekov's gun, moat Cailin hasn't featured enough yet for the exposition it had in story and lore. And it's a logical bottleneck, when the others can't swim and quicksands migth be around then even for them the Neck could be a difficult place to get beyond

1.2 they push to Kings landing and beyond, famous forts come into play

Based on Daenarys vision, and also considering exposition of fortresses, the others break trough the neck. They swamp very large area's of Westeros that are not preppared for this including Kings landing itself. At some places, major fortifications come into play. Storms End for example, guarded by it's magic walls. Perhaps the gates of the moon hold with the Royce's at command, if not the Eyrie remains a great castle in this occasion. As such, some of the most defendable and well provisioned places might hold out, castle's we all know, guarded by local champion houses, but the great countryside of Westeros gets flooded by whights, humongous army's of them constantly having been increased from raiding the graveyards and battlefields of corpses, too much to fight off but at strategic bottlenecks.

1.3 Darkness descends on the world

Just as winter seems to really arrive, so will darkness come. All the legends about the "long night" ephasize that element, with the sun going hiding. This darkness will add to the dread of the others, as one will have to fight them in the night. And in this Darkness, the Hightower will stand out, a beacon for people to flee too, with Lightbringer itself sitting on it's perch. House hightower leads the way, and vast amounts of people start to flee towards oldtown.

The darkness might not hit everywhere. No need to explain the physics involved, wether it's axial tilt or a magical solar eclipse, if the sun is going to hide for decade's, it's not going to do it everywhere, the world is round afterall. And then you have places like Sunspear and Starfall that might even suggest a path at the sky for a limited sun to pass allong, to still just hit those area's around Westeros, as if the sun would be at it highest at sunspear and falling around Starfall, whereas the summer islands remain within the summer all time, it creates some line around the south of Westeros where there is still some limited sunlight and potential for agriculture. Furthermore, Starfall can sit behind various mountainions bottlenecks, with high hermitage even more secluded in this case, though it might take some really herioc types to hold of others in these strategic spots.

2: House hightower knows

The Hightowers, despite being a fairly powerfull house all compared in Westeros, remain rather absent from the game, as they are also known to do. Lord Leyton Hightower has himself and his daughter locked up in the tower to consult ancient scrolls as rumoured. In response to the threat of the Ironborn, it is said that Lord Hightower has send out sons to hire mercenary company's abroad. The Hightowers are strong, wealthy and resourcefull, sitting on a great defensive position and probably well stocked up for emmergency's.

The Hightowers are playing a long game, because they know what is going to happen. They most of all have acces to the required knowledge, they are the most likely to know what really matters for the war to come, or even when a new long night might arrive. They have founded the citadel, as seen in my theories they have also provided the innitial knowledge from the vaults of the hightower, they have always kept family in that organisation to likely sit at key positions, and acces to key information is probably kept to a very limited few if just the Hightowers. Afterall the Hightowers are both the protectors and kinda founders of the institution, and i think that the scrolls the Hightowers are studying in their tower are some that the Maesters havn't even seen ever. Knowledge simply is power, but for the Hightowers it might even be a path for ambition as they could quite easily emerge as one of the strongest powers after the long night.

The Lands around Oldtown might still seem some light. Eitherway due to the Hightower it becomes a human hub, quickly exploding in numbers of people who seek a way out of westeros, willing to pay fortune's to get out.Oldtown exploded to a massive sized city, having luckily quite good infrastructure to atleast take a lot in, a few milliosn perhaps if they choose to stack. Meanwhile it becoems a great location for traders who'd sell food to sail too, they can get a lot of money for selling some food and taking in some travellers.

2.1 Oldtown will be tested, it be epic

Eventually, the White walkers will try to breach the place. As they should try. And the stakes for humanity will be very high, with a lot of soldiers at disposal for a fight. Also a good moment for Lightbringer to finally kick in, be it that it takes someone who is fire resistant to wield that sword, and he will also go up into that sword, devoured by it so to speak. Lightbringer is no ordinary thing, some bloody cosmic ray gun or something honestly i don't know, it shoots out huge rays of killtonic stuff and slays the Others completly, but whoever takes it up gets killed by it, or be that going up in it. And so, as the Hightowers know, will the long night end,

180 days i might fit. you take 30 days for the wall, forged in water. 50 days before team Lannister gets it, and a 100 days before Someone has to sacrifice himself at Oldtown, to become Azor Ahai. Or is it 180 months? Really, perhaps just the 180 days and nights that can be observed from the south, however long these nights and days might take.

2.2 The hightowers will come up at top in the new order

And the maesters will bring in a new era of technological innovation ... perhaps. Eitherway, at this point the hightowers have always been in the superb strategic spot to exploit this situation. And for that reason, they have organised the citadel so much to be sceptical about things like the long night. For they look at themself as the winners in this.

 

[LordImp]

I like this . Everything with Oldtown and Hightower are mysterious and I find likely that it has a connection with the Long night . Good work!

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Water's Gate, this is really good.  And it also potentially works well with my idea for the Daynes' house words.

[PhoenixFly1372]

I like this idea.  Been thinking about where the knowledge is coming from and hoping Sam comes up with something......

[LordImp]

31 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Water's Gate, this is really good.  And it also potentially works well with my idea for the Daynes' house words.

What's your idea for the Dayne words?

[Waters Gate]

What's your idea for the Dayne words?

 

I don't know. I'd think that given the age of the house and the various names they use like "dawn" and "the sword of the morning" that they could have been prominent during the long night. I like to avoid making too much wild theory's that lack sufficient hints to it, but i can take a closr look and see if i can find something, i havn't been focussing much on them.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

1 hour ago, LordImp said:

What's your idea for the Dayne words?

My idea is that it plays off of the Hightower words.

Hightower: We light the way.

Dayne: We light the tower.

[Waters Gate]

Part II predictions for the story to come related to this theory.

1 The others will get as far as Oldtown and Dorne south

It would have been too anticlimatic if the walkers would never have gotten past the wall. From there on, where could they be stopped. Winterfell is a mighty fortress, but it is no bottleneck, armies can just walk around it. What Winterfell seems to have is that it might succeed at doing sustainable farming within its walls, providing for a relative small poppulation.

1.1 Epic battle at moat cailin.

Chekov's gun, moat Cailin hasn't featured enough yet for the exposition it had in story and lore. And it's a logical bottleneck, when the others can't swim and quicksands migth be around then even for them the Neck could be a difficult place to get beyond

1.2 they push to Kings landing and beyond, famous forts come into play

Based on Daenarys vision, and also considering exposition of fortresses, the others break trough the neck. They swamp very large area's of Westeros that are not preppared for this including Kings landing itself. At some places, major fortifications come into play. Storms End for example, guarded by it's magic walls. Perhaps the gates of the moon hold with the Royce's at command, if not the Eyrie remains a great castle in this occasion. As such, some of the most defendable and well provisioned places might hold out, castle's we all know, guarded by local champion houses, but the great countryside of Westeros gets flooded by whights, humongous army's of them constantly having been increased from raiding the graveyards and battlefields of corpses, too much to fight off but at strategic bottlenecks.

1.3 Darkness descends on the world

Just as winter seems to really arrive, so will darkness come. All the legends about the "long night" ephasize that element, with the sun going hiding. This darkness will add to the dread of the others, as one will have to fight them in the night. And in this Darkness, the Hightower will stand out, a beacon for people to flee too, with Lightbringer itself sitting on it's perch. House hightower leads the way, and vast amounts of people start to flee towards oldtown.

The darkness might not hit everywhere. No need to explain the physics involved, wether it's axial tilt or a magical solar eclipse, if the sun is going to hide for decade's, it's not going to do it everywhere, the world is round afterall. And then you have places like Sunspear and Starfall that might even suggest a path at the sky for a limited sun to pass allong, to still just hit those area's around Westeros, as if the sun would be at it highest at sunspear and falling around Starfall, whereas the summer islands remain within the summer all time, it creates some line around the south of Westeros where there is still some limited sunlight and potential for agriculture. Furthermore, Starfall can sit behind various mountainions bottlenecks, with high hermitage even more secluded in this case, though it might take some really herioc types to hold of others in these strategic spots.

2: House hightower knows

The Hightowers, despite being a fairly powerfull house all compared in Westeros, remain rather absent from the game, as they are also known to do. Lord Leyton Hightower has himself and his daughter locked up in the tower to consult ancient scrolls as rumoured. In response to the threat of the Ironborn, it is said that Lord Hightower has send out sons to hire mercenary company's abroad. The Hightowers are strong, wealthy and resourcefull, sitting on a great defensive position and probably well stocked up for emmergency's.

The Hightowers are playing a long game, because they know what is going to happen. They most of all have acces to the required knowledge, they are the most likely to know what really matters for the war to come, or even when a new long night might arrive. They have founded the citadel, as seen in my theories they have also provided the innitial knowledge from the vaults of the hightower, they have always kept family in that organisation to likely sit at key positions, and acces to key information is probably kept to a very limited few if just the Hightowers. Afterall the Hightowers are both the protectors and kinda founders of the institution, and i think that the scrolls the Hightowers are studying in their tower are some that the Maesters havn't even seen ever. Knowledge simply is power, but for the Hightowers it might even be a path for ambition as they could quite easily emerge as one of the strongest powers after the long night.

The Lands around Oldtown might still seem some light. Eitherway due to the Hightower it becomes a human hub, quickly exploding in numbers of people who seek a way out of westeros, willing to pay fortune's to get out.Oldtown exploded to a massive sized city, having luckily quite good infrastructure to atleast take a lot in, a few milliosn perhaps if they choose to stack. Meanwhile it becoems a great location for traders who'd sell food to sail too, they can get a lot of money for selling some food and taking in some travellers.

2.1 Oldtown will be tested, it be epic

Eventually, the White walkers will try to breach the place. As they should try. And the stakes for humanity will be very high, with a lot of soldiers at disposal for a fight. Also a good moment for Lightbringer to finally kick in, be it that it takes someone who is fire resistant to wield that sword, and he will also go up into that sword, devoured by it so to speak. Lightbringer is no ordinary thing, some bloody cosmic ray gun or something honestly i don't know, it shoots out huge rays of killtonic stuff and slays the Others completly, but whoever takes it up gets killed by it, or be that going up in it. And so, as the Hightowers know, will the long night end,

180 days i might fit. you take 30 days for the wall, forged in water. 50 days before team Lannister gets it, and a 100 days before Someone has to sacrifice himself at Oldtown, to become Azor Ahai. Or is it 180 months? Really, perhaps just the 180 days and nights that can be observed from the south, however long these nights and days might take.

2.2 The hightowers will come up at top in the new order

And the maesters will bring in a new era of technological innovation ... perhaps. Eitherway, at this point the hightowers have always been in the superb strategic spot to exploit this situation. And for that reason, they have organised the citadel so much to be sceptical about things like the long night. For they look at themself as the winners in this.

[Waters Gate]

Short version added to make it more concise, the theory got really long and needed that short intro

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Very nice additions Water's Gate!

IIRC, Starfall is technically built on an island at the mouth of the Torrentine. That gives it a touch of safety maybe that many castles lack.

While I think it's definitely possible that Winter will not fall at Winterfell this time, I have to put in a plug for the potential that a final climactic battle with the humans victorious may take place at Storm's End. If the Others aren't defeated there, then Euron maybe could be. Getting rid of King Euron would be a victory for humanity too.

I'm not sure I'd go with cosmic ray gun, as that seems majorly anachronistic to the story, but perhaps when Lightbringer is turned all the way up it creates a circle of light into which neither the Others nor their wights can venture? A simulated dawn to combat the Long Night? Hey, maybe Dawn can be lit from Lightbringer (not saying they are the same but they could have some interesting symbiotic relationship during Long Nights), and be used to increase said magical light circle until the night is truly defeated and true dawn can break. Gosh, now I'm wondering if when the Others are finally and permanently defeated the sword Dawn will break.

[Waters Gate]

Thank you. I used the cosmic ray gun as a methapore, simply because i could not predict the nature of lightbringer as a way to physical victory. Ill go with suggestions.

[thehandwipes]

On ‎8‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 3:14 PM, Waters Gate said:

1.1 Epic battle at moat cailin.

Chekov's gun, moat Cailin hasn't featured enough yet for the exposition it had in story and lore. And it's a logical bottleneck, when the others can't swim and quicksands migth be around then even for them the Neck could be a difficult place to get beyond

 

Bit of a nitpick, but Moat Cailin defends the North from the south.  The Twins defend the south from attack from the North and would be a great place for an epic dramatically satisfying showdown.

Other than that I really loved your thoughts.  I simply don't buy that Azor Ahai did or will defeat the Others for the Dawn, but he certainly may be buries in the Hightower.  There are theories that the Faith of the Seven evolved from the Church of Starry Wisdom, and the High Septon did originally have his seat in Oldtown at the Starry Sept.

 

[Waters Gate]

It's true that Moat Cailin's towers are positioned at the north side over the narrow causeway that the white walkers should be forced on, so thats a pitty. Otoh, the causeway remains a bottleneck, and the Cranogman are still a fresh force positioned to defend it. Some makeshift pallisade's and wooden towers could perhaps quickly be build at the south side of the causeway, against an enemy that has no siege weapons the strategic value might be just the same as stone towers.

[Ser Petyr Parker]

I like this idea. There's something about secret preparation, characters actually using their brains to work out their opponents' weaknesses and quietly stockpiling exactly what they need, that really appeals to me. So often I'm frustrated by characters who seem to have no imagination in the face of an existential threat, e.g. every character in every zombie film (and the Walking Dead) - I think we're all sure we could do the zombie apocalypse ten times better than any of those characters.

First question:

Why do the Hightowers apparently show zero interest in the Wall and other defences? Unless the Wall has a serious weakness that renders it essentially useless once the Others decide to fully commit to invasion (e.g. the Horn of Joramun) it makes a lot of sense to at least try to weaken and slow down the Others there. Every day of open battle at the Wall is another day for everyone else to prepare. Abandoning it makes as little sense as Northerners not bothering to man Moat Cailin in the event of a southern invasion and just relying on Winterfell.

I'd also hope to see them subtly reinforcing other areas, perhaps with apparently ornamental dragonglass weapons as gifts, dragonglass non-weapons that turn out to be easily made into weapons (start a trend among the kids for dragonglass arrowhead jewellery!) books that turn out to have very relevant information in them, etc. If this were Martin's plan I'd also almost expect to hear off-hand comments about Oldtown buying up loads of pitch, or something else useful for making anti-wight weapons.

Second question:

What about the Maesters? I'm not sure how much involvement the Hightowers have with the Maesters, but if what Marwyn says is true, the Archmaesters aren't involved in this. If they were, you'd expect them to want to hear what Sam has to say instead of poisoning his porridge. Perhaps Marwyn's specific prediction there was wrong, but if the Hightowers have all this information about the War for the Dawn and Marwyn is right under their noses, you'd expect them to be working together. Maybe they are, but it doesn't sound like it.

Where the first question and the second tie together is that it would be great if the Maesters were part of this secret preparation, and key strategic strongholds and houses had all been sent Maesters who were secretly well-versed in the Others, the War for the Dawn, etc. Then when the time comes and no one can dismiss it all as snarks and grumkins, these Maesters go up to their lords and say "Yeah, I know all about this. This is what you need to do. Here is my secret cache of dragonglass weapons." To be clear, I don't see how this could be true, I just think it would be pretty cool.

If you had enough time, you could take this further and send out singers and storytellers that just happen to be giving all sorts of useful tips to the children of lords in the guise of a good yarn (think of Old Nan) so that when they grow up all of this will be somewhat familiar. A whole generation of lords and knights who grew up playing "the Last Hero". Going back to zombie films, if someone wanted to secretly prepare us for the zombie apocalypse they did a pretty good job. Who doesn't know how to kill a zombie nowadays? Who doesn't know how "zombieism" spreads? We'd nip that shit right in the bud.

 

2 hours ago, Waters Gate said:

It's true that Moat Cailin's towers are positioned at the north side over the narrow causeway that the white walkers should be forced on, so thats a pitty. Otoh, the causeway remains a bottleneck, and the Cranogman are still a fresh force positioned to defend it. Some makeshift pallisade's and wooden towers could perhaps quickly be build at the south side of the causeway, against an enemy that has no siege weapons the strategic value might be just the same as stone towers.

I can't see the Crannogmen mounting a good defence against the Others. They'd be destroyed if the Others bring winter with them. What are the Crannogman tactics? Move around on water, hide in trees and mud, shoot poisoned arrows from cover, allow bogs and wildlife to kill off a large number of foes. All this doesn't just reduce their enemies' numbers but severely damages their morale.

Now imagine all that water is frozen, so their boats are useless, the mud is hard and Greywater Watch is stationary (assuming it's basically a half-boat fortress... thing). Their mobility advantage is reduced, while their enemies' is enhanced - they just walk on the ice, no need for the causeway or any predictable route through. The lizard-lions won't go near the wights. Instead they're freezing and joining the Others' team. The cold and general weirdness is reducing Crannogman morale - the Crannogman advantage is fighting on their home turf, which no one else knows the way they do, but the Others just replace it with their own home turf. Meanwhile, morale is no issue whatsoever for an army of dead people. Neither is poison. I doubt human poisons have any effect on the Others, either. Arrows are next to useless, because you can't just wound a wight and leave it to die in the swamps the way you can a man.

Alternative: maybe they just burn all the trees and try to catch as many wights in the blaze as possible?

Thoughts?

[Waters Gate]

8 hours ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

Why do the Hightowers apparently show zero interest in the Wall and other defences? 

Various reasons of which some more determinal than others. But the main reason is because they are preppared to follow the "Cersei strategy" of dealing with rivals, with other words let youre rivals fight themselfs to death against the others first, and only start the reconquest when all others houses are on their knees and youre the one to come up top.

More so than Cersei, they know what is going to happen if they do not act, they know the wall will be breached and the most of Westeros will be swamped. Indeed, they know so much that they could have done a lot more to preppare humanity for it, but why would they offer up some of their strenght to save their rivals?

Ultimatly, they know the Hightower above all will stand. So they feel they are ultimatly safe for what regards this ordeal.

 

8 hours ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

What about the Maesters? I'm not sure how much involvement the Hightowers have with the Maesters, but if what Marwyn says is true, the Archmaesters aren't involved in this.

When i presented the extended theory to the chat today, it swpawned a lot of discussion about the potential role of the Maesters. They are suspicious in this context and Lady Dustin's words at Winterfell about them reflect the suspicious elements. The have no family name so you never know what house they serve, otoh they have acces to very important information and often influence over the lords they are with.

One of the maesters that was taken under a closer look in context of this theory was archmaester Pycelle's involvement in the end of the Targaryans. Apparently Pycelle had a big influence both in conveying the ice and fire legend to Rhaeghar and convincing the mad king to open the gates for Tywin Lannister. If Oldtown was out for the same chaos that littlefinger was (which even considered the consideration that LF might have been their agent) then the maesters seemed to have helped events along at time.

 

Various posters also got to consider "which Maester is of who", with some being alligned to the Hightowers, and others being suspected of being Dornish Spy's. Again, i think if the maesters are involved, that it's jsut a small number of them that know the really importnatn stuff, of which likely some archmaesters that were originally hightowers.

8 hours ago, Ser Petyr Parker said:

I can't see the Crannogmen mounting a good defence against the Others. They'd be destroyed if the Others bring winter with them. What are the Crannogman tactics?

I shall soon make a more extensive post about Moat cailling, One thing i did was design a layout of the causeway and tower positions based on teh discription, and trying to come to the most logical and reasonable design for that, so to be able to determine how defensible it could be made from north to south and what tactics could be employed.

Note, i do think that a big battle will be fought at moat Cailling, but it's also my theory that the others will succeed in pushign trough, so youre note isn't nessecarily incompatible with my theory.

[Tyrion1991]

I'd really like to see the Hightowers take a big role. Plus a Jorah Lynesse reunion would be neat. Only issue I have is that I feel GRRM would want the final battle at Kings Landing. Also, we are forgetting that we are probably going to have many seperate fights like in Wheel of Time. Potentially all the major seats.

[falcotron]

On 9/2/2017 at 5:09 AM, Ser Petyr Parker said:

What about the Maesters? I'm not sure how much involvement the Hightowers have with the Maesters, but if what Marwyn says is true, the Archmaesters aren't involved in this. If they were, you'd expect them to want to hear what Sam has to say instead of poisoning his porridge.

If you don't buy the idea that Oldtown is playing Cersei to conquer all of Westeros, there's a more benign explanation possible:

Sam has discovered enough to ask annoying questions and get in the way, but not enough to actually be useful in the real preparations for saving humanity, and they've heard enough to realize that. I mean, the boy still thinks the whole thing is about the Wall. He seems like a smart kid, but we have hundreds of smart people who are already up to speed, so it would be a waste of time bringing him on board. 

Or it could be even worse—a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and if you tried to teach Sam what's going on, he might do something stupid early on, like secretly alerting the Watch or Winterfell leading them to do something different than we were counting on.

Either way, it's better to just lie to him to get him to shut up than to let him in on the plan.

Of course it could well be that they're wrong, and Sam actually has some crucial knowledge, or has cleverly made a connection nobody else made before, and dismissing him will turn out to be a near-fatal mistake that they only correct at the last minute. Yes, that's just like tons of kaiju movies, 50s alien invasion movies, and anything with Jeff Goldblum, but just because something is a cliche, especially one from another genre, doesn't mean GRRM couldn't find an interesting way to make use of it.