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#teamNightking

Cersei's Armies

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What is the size of Cersei's remaining forces? What allies remain?

Lannister/Tarly combined armies 20k ?

Golden Company 20k (if they arrive)?

Frey remnants ( 2-3k?) Iron fleet plus Iron born, reclaimed surviving High Garden soldiers....

Still formidable? 

Theoretically in betraying the truce she can seize Dragonstone, reclaim Casterly Rock, Occupy High Garden... Take Moat Cailin, and hold the Twins... A depleted Targaryen army returning from defeating the NK might have a challenge. 

So.... Shouldn't Dany have just fried Cersei with Dragonfire? I question Tyrion's mamby pamby "peace bro" advise. 

 

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12 hours ago, #teamNightking said:

What is the size of Cersei's remaining forces? What allies remain?

Lannister/Tarly combined armies 20k ?

Golden Company 20k (if they arrive)?

Frey remnants ( 2-3k?) Iron fleet plus Iron born, reclaimed surviving High Garden soldiers....

Still formidable? 

Theoretically in betraying the truce she can seize Dragonstone, reclaim Casterly Rock, Occupy High Garden... Take Moat Cailin, and hold the Twins... A depleted Targaryen army returning from defeating the NK might have a challenge. 

So.... Shouldn't Dany have just fried Cersei with Dragonfire? I question Tyrion's mamby pamby "peace bro" advise. 

 

Yes she should have just fried her.  That would have taken care of that problem and everyone left would bend the knee and she wouldn't have had to be queen of the ashes.  Which coincidentally she may end up being anyway now that the Frank Sinatra of the dead Ole Blue Eyes has a dragon.  

 

So the Golden Company was created by Aegor Rivers, a Targ bastard who supposedly brought Blackfyre Aegon the Conqueror's Valarian Steel sword with him.  What are the chances that sword makes it way back to Westeros?

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14 hours ago, #teamNightking said:

What is the size of Cersei's remaining forces? What allies remain?

Lannister/Tarly combined armies 20k ?

Golden Company 20k (if they arrive)?

Frey remnants ( 2-3k?) Iron fleet plus Iron born, reclaimed surviving High Garden soldiers....

Still formidable?

Not in any believable way, since the Dothraki alone would be a cavalry force larger than the entire Golden Company. And being based in Essos, you think they'd know better than to face them in battle.

Cersei's main trump card is that her armies can teleport.

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1 hour ago, Yukle said:

Not in any believable way, since the Dothraki alone would be a cavalry force larger than the entire Golden Company

Until the horses starve and freeze in winter and they eat them. #dothrokiinfantry :huh:

Another reason she should have used them now, and taken King's Landing instead of this naive summer child little "truce" plan . She may be cute but her tactics are atrocious. Maybe bf snowgaryen can get some sense into her. But he loses a lot of battles tooo..  

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8 hours ago, Yukle said:

Not in any believable way, since the Dothraki alone would be a cavalry force larger than the entire Golden Company. And being based in Essos, you think they'd know better than to face them in battle.

Cersei's main trump card is that her armies can teleport.

Cersei's trump card is that she possesses all the strongholds that are built to be easy to defend and difficult to attack. She also has the benefit of Dany's self imposed moral standards. She's willing to do things Dany will not. Dany really has to make a choice, become the monster and win or stick to her saviour complex and lose.

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Her armies are only fictional, exist by decree of the writers. Just like the dothraki will handle the cold, not starve, and keep the horses. Just like the unsullied went back to danny easily and without food.

Think about it, winter, almost no food anywhere, carts with highgarden food burned, but a million people in kl and armies of thousands. logistics be damned

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On 9/1/2017 at 8:32 PM, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

Cersei's trump card is that she possesses all the strongholds that are built to be easy to defend and difficult to attack...

Disagreed - she is reviled all around Westeros. The fact that she isn't facing repercussions for using wildfire against King's Landing and went from "food thrown at her naked body" to "queen" is another moment of terrible writing.

There is no reason that somebody who has betrayed all of her alliances would have anyone still backing her, nor allowing her use of their castles.

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4 hours ago, Yukle said:

Disagreed - she is reviled all around Westeros. The fact that she isn't facing repercussions for using wildfire against King's Landing and went from "food thrown at her naked body" to "queen" is another moment of terrible writing.

There is no reason that somebody who has betrayed all of her alliances would have anyone still backing her, nor allowing her use of their castles.

This is the same show that wrote Ramsay Sue not having to fear any sort of reprisals from the very forgetful North despite all his insanity and brutality. These writers had the balls to literally have Jon saying how "ramsay's men will turn on him" and those guys fought to the last bitter end. 

The writers thought they could handwave it away by giving Jaime and Olenna a couple lines pointing out how fickle the common people are, but it still makes no sense how Cersei was able to consolidate her power so firmly, except for the fact that D&D worship her and they needed Cersei strong and Dany to weaken herself to make this a more fair fight. 

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Agreed Lost Time. Recall we haven't had notice of any developments in the Stormlands since Renly died. Stannis was using Crownlands troops and Sellswords. There is no reason for them not to reconsider their options but they are invisible and therefore defacto loyal to Cersei

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6 hours ago, Lost Time said:

These writers had the balls to literally have Jon saying how "ramsay's men will turn on him" and those guys fought to the last bitter end. 

I was almost sure that the Umbers and maybe even the Karstarks, would turn against Ramsay during the battle.

Director M. Sapochnik admitted they changed the ending of the BoB during the filming…

“The Dragon Demands“ made an interesting (although too long) video on the matter:

go direct to 1:30:10 for a summary…

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2 hours ago, Eternal_King_Stannis said:

Apparently the Lannisters have a limitless supply of men to reproduce and age super quickly like the clones during the Clone Wars.

The weirdest part of this is that the scene with Arya and the Lannister men showed that the Lannisters are now desperate and scraping the bottom of the barrel for who they can take to war. Now, even fathers of young families are going - which is something that all feudal societies would avoid for obvious reasons. It's a last-ditch gamble.

14 hours ago, Lost Time said:

This is the same show that wrote Ramsay Sue not having to fear any sort of reprisals from the very forgetful North despite all his insanity and brutality. These writers had the balls to literally have Jon saying how "ramsay's men will turn on him" and those guys fought to the last bitter end. 

The writers thought they could handwave it away by giving Jaime and Olenna a couple lines pointing out how fickle the common people are, but it still makes no sense how Cersei was able to consolidate her power so firmly, except for the fact that D&D worship her and they needed Cersei strong and Dany to weaken herself to make this a more fair fight. 

It made sense for Ramsay - except during the battle itself. While his forces were divided and his bannermen in their castles (or staying at his) they'd never have felt safe.

In the battlefield, though, agreed, it's a complete sham to have them somehow forget what a complete monster he is. It's the worst for the Karstarks and Umbers to take one slight against Robb for killing their patriarch (who, it must be said, did break his law as annoying as it was for them) as the chance to throw their lot in with a deranged tyrant.

I also think D&D have given Cersei a lot of storylines, like the Golden Company, for reasons of minimising the cast of characters. They really don't know how to make the Night's King the main villain, so they are desperately keeping her going.

I have a horrible sinking feeling that the Night's King will be defeated with a few episodes to spare and the main climax with be Dany versus Cersei. And it will be a letdown.

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On 8/31/2017 at 7:18 PM, Yukle said:

Not in any believable way, since the Dothraki alone would be a cavalry force larger than the entire Golden Company. And being based in Essos, you think they'd know better than to face them in battle.

Cersei's main trump card is that her armies can teleport.

Your probaly right afterall why would they lose men against the others? They don't even have many strengths. 

1) atleast 100k wights

2)Many giants

3) Many others(that can only be killed by special weapons)

4) Many Animals

5) Can ressurect dead animals and humans at any time

6) Severe artic winter follows them anywhere they go instantly

7) A leader who can easily kill dragons

I say the odds are stacked in Westroes favor. 

 

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On 3.9.2017 at 8:07 AM, Yukle said:

Disagreed - she is reviled all around Westeros. The fact that she isn't facing repercussions for using wildfire against King's Landing and went from "food thrown at her naked body" to "queen" is another moment of terrible writing.

There is no reason that somebody who has betrayed all of her alliances would have anyone still backing her, nor allowing her use of their castles.

Actually, Cersei did not betray all her alliances. The Tyrells, yes, But that is rather the exception than the rule and she saw them as her personal enemies. The Freys and the Boltons got their rewards and so would have the Tarlys. Sam's father was not stupid, he wouldn't have sided with her if there was a chance she would betray him out of his reward: Highgarden and the Wardenship of the South. That's the Lannister method of securing support: they install the most powerful bannermen in the positions that need to be replaced or are vacant. You can bet that this is what has happened in the Stormlands and in Dorne too. 

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The golden companies have 10,000 men. Also what it will likely gloss over is that mercenaries aren't gonna fight a dragon. If a force looks to be losing the mercs won't stay. The golden company never broke a contract it's true but they have never faced a dragon. It is hard to tell how many lannister and tarly soldiers they have but less then 20,000 would be my guess.

I think dany should have just used her dragon to finish off the lannister forces outside of KL and then laid siege to kings landing with a portion of her troops and taken the rest north to fight the WW. It wouldn't take long to do and it would be a great deal more certain then trusting cersei.

Cersei would be confined to kings landing and unable to raise a army and thus not a threat and yet dany could face the threat in the north. Yes she would have to leave some of her forces in the south but she would be able to have her cake and eat it too. Now killing cersei when you arrange a peace meeting would be a bad idea because she would never be trusted again.

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The problem with tyrions plan is it is based on cersei keeping her promise and not bertaying dany. I think her move would be obvious if stupid because she would do her best to weaken dany in the north even if it risked letting the night king win. She doesn't care about anyone but herself anymore and is mad. She doesn't care about what happens after her or to anyone but her. So beating the WW but losing to dany is just as bad as losing to the WW since she won't give up the throne and will die either way. Now that she lost jaime i think she will start to lose her forces more and more because if jaime abandoned her why should they stay with her. And she only won a few battles because she let him lead and plan them. 

It seems very weird for tyrion to trust his sister when he knows her so well.

 

Also I am not sure she is even pregnant and if she is she is just using it to manipulate people into doing what she wants or into trusting her because "she cares about her children" which I think is not true anymore because she is too far gone.

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On 8/31/2017 at 4:37 AM, #teamNightking said:

What is the size of Cersei's remaining forces? What allies remain?

Lannister/Tarly combined armies 20k ?

Golden Company 20k (if they arrive)?

Frey remnants ( 2-3k?) Iron fleet plus Iron born, reclaimed surviving High Garden soldiers....

Still formidable? 

Theoretically in betraying the truce she can seize Dragonstone, reclaim Casterly Rock, Occupy High Garden... Take Moat Cailin, and hold the Twins... A depleted Targaryen army returning from defeating the NK might have a challenge. 

So.... Shouldn't Dany have just fried Cersei with Dragonfire? I question Tyrion's mamby pamby "peace bro" advise. 

 

Yes. She should have killed her at the Dragonpit

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9 hours ago, Zapho said:

Actually, Cersei did not betray all her alliances. The Tyrells, yes, But that is rather the exception than the rule and she saw them as her personal enemies. The Freys and the Boltons got their rewards and so would have the Tarlys. Sam's father was not stupid, he wouldn't have sided with her if there was a chance she would betray him out of his reward: Highgarden and the Wardenship of the South. That's the Lannister method of securing support: they install the most powerful bannermen in the positions that need to be replaced or are vacant. You can bet that this is what has happened in the Stormlands and in Dorne too. 

Tywin built an alliance with the Tyrells, which she broke, and Tyrion one with Dorne, which she broke. Those are far bigger alliances than anything she has made - and the fact that she was able to make alliances at all is unrealistic. In fact, given Tyrion married Sansa that was meant to be an alliance with the Starks, too (albeit non really by choice) which was promptly broken.

The fact that characters are accepting titles from her is unrealistic. For some unknown reason the Reach didn't have a large standing army and the Lannisters still did, so the Lannisters waltzed into Highgarden without any effort.

But that's not politics, that's stupid writing.

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@ Yukle

I say that you are fundamentally correct. One could argue that Dorne broke the alliance, not Cersei. That, however, is not a vitally important matter here. Overall, it is not believable that the so-called "queen" on the Iron Throne would have any significant support in Westeros. Even Lannister bannermen would probably desert her. The writers dug themselves into a hole by the end of Season 6. They tried to find some kind of reasonable storyline to dig themselves out. They failed. 

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