Season 8 Predictions?

[Blackwater Revenant]

4 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Special.

No. The show has objectively has and average viewership of 10 million plus for season 7.  It is objectively the most popular series in HBO history.

I agree, just another of your many, many strawman arguments.

4 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

 

1. I am not a pandering casual viewer and I'm a big fan of the show. You think you speak for all the hard core fans?  Go watch your porn parody.

Your arguments would suggest otherwise.

And no, I don't speak for all hard core fans, I even stated that earlier. I do know however, that there is a large portion of them that do agree with me.

[jcmontea]

15 minutes ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

I do, but apparently you don't know what literary standards are.

Actually I do. I know enough to know that there is no objective way to determine if a work of art  is good or not. 

Quote

No it's not. A work of literature either has plot holes and inconsistencies, etc. or it doesn't. That can be determined objectively.

I am willing to bet there are works of art that are considered great subjectively speaking that has some supposed flaw. 

Quote

You are describing whether or not it is successful, which is objective. That all of those followers think it's a good show is a subjective opinion.

Actually you were the one who said whether its a good show as far as the ability ..... you set up whether it was a good show, listed the criteria that were measurable and still said that was objective. Perhaps you mis-wrote your sentence but as written your sentence did not make sense. 

[Blackwater Revenant]

18 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Actually I do. I know enough to know that there is no objective way to determine if a work of art  is good or not. 

Well it depends on how you define "good." I don't deny that it is a good show for what it is. Obviously, it is very successful, and has millions of people who like it. In that sense, I agree that it is a good show. What it is not, is a well written work of literature, judged by literary standards, that's not a subjective opinion, that's a fact.

18 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

I am willing to bet there are works of art that are considered great subjectively speaking that has some supposed flaw. 

I agree, I wouldn't take that bet against you.

18 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Actually you were the one who said whether its a good show as far as the ability ..... you set up whether it was a good show, listed the criteria that were measurable and still said that was objective. Perhaps you mis-wrote your sentence but as written your sentence did not make sense. 

Sorry, I don't follow you here. What are you referring to?

[Blackwater Revenant]

@jcmontea

Is this what you are referring to?

"Whether it's a good show as far as the ability to entertain people and draw a large following is subjective."

my apologies, bad wording on my part. What I meant is that those people's opinions are subjective, but yes, judging by that criteria (the success and following that the show has garnered), GoT can be objectively classified as a good show.

[jcmontea]

31 minutes ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

Well it depends on how you define "good." I don't deny that it is a good show for what it is. Obviously, it is very successful, and has millions of people who like it. In that sense, I agree that it is a good show. What it is not, is a well written work of literature, judged by literary standards, that's not a subjective opinion, that's a fact.

I agree, I wouldn't take that bet against you.

Sorry, I don't follow you here. What are you referring to?

Lets agree to disagree. There are lots of renowned literary critics who would disagree with you on how objective judgements of literary worth are. Even one of the more famous, Harold Bloom, in his book on the western cannon took an inherently subjective view of what is worth including in the western literary cannon which effectively is the best of the best. Effectively what deserves to be included is what inspires and influences subsequent writers - the works of art they wrestle with and react to and on and on it goes throughout the generations. 

 

[Blackwater Revenant]

2 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

The "all demographics" comment along with your other comments demonstrates that you have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to adaptations.  I would explain it but why bother?

No, please do explain it if you can...and without cutting off a portion of my comment. I said "all demographics of their audience", not all demographics.

If they have to sell out and produce a completely different product than that which brought them success in the first place, in order to attract a broader audience, while spitting in the faces of the audience that supported their product from the get go, then they are not nearly as talented as you suggest.

 

[jcmontea]

6 hours ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

No, please do explain it if you can...and without cutting off a portion of my comment. I said "all demographics of their audience", not all demographics.

If they have to sell out and produce a completely different product than that which brought them success in the first place, in order to attract a broader audience, while spitting in the faces of the audience that supported their product from the get go, then they are not nearly as talented as you suggest.

 

This is a fascinating chart looking for objective data on the quality of the show. It basically graphs the imdb data for every episode. 

http://graphtv.kevinformatics.com/tt0944947

The actual average rating has trended upwards over time but the variance around that trend has increased. So it looks like the latter seasons, especially 5 and 6 had some of the lower ratings in the shows history they also had some of the highest whereas the earlier seasons where more consistent but didn’t have as high of highs. Interestingly Season 7 was very well received. 

[Sir Hedge of Hog]

everyone seems certain jon is going to die...what are the odds on him surviving? 

[jcmontea]

7 hours ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

everyone seems certain jon is going to die...what are the odds on him surviving? 

Based on the man himself I think the odds of Jon surviving are greater than a coin toss - 50% - but less than a certainty - 100% since things can change and i guess dying at the end could also mean making it through all three volumes. I give it 80% chance.  

“Old characters will die, and new ones will be introduced. Some of the fatalities will include sympathetic viewpoint characters. I want the reader to feel that no one is ever completely safe, not even the characters who seem to be the heroes. The suspense always ratchets up a notch when you know that any character can die at any time. 

-- 

Five central characters will make it through all three volumes, however, growing from children to adults and changing the world and themselves in the process. In a sense, my trilogy is almost a generational saga, telling the life stories of these five characters, three men and two women. The five key players are Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Arya, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow. All of them are introduced at some length in the chapters you have to hand.”

[Blackwater Revenant]

13 hours ago, jcmontea said:

This is a fascinating chart looking for objective data on the quality of the show. It basically graphs the imdb data for every episode. 

Only thing is, this chart is attempting to graph the popularity of the show, not the quality. Popularity does not necessarily equate to quality.

13 hours ago, jcmontea said:

The actual average rating has trended upwards over time but the variance around that trend has increased. So it looks like the latter seasons, especially 5 and 6 had some of the lower ratings in the shows history they also had some of the highest whereas the earlier seasons where more consistent but didn’t have as high of highs. Interestingly Season 7 was very well received. 

And I believe that variance would support the point that @Meera of Tarth brought up in regards to the casual viewers who only tune in for certain episodes due to leaks and media hype etc. A lot of fans only tune in to certain episodes because it's the cool thing to do, and they want to be a part of the water cooler talk the next day in the office, raving about what an awesome battle scene there was, or how bad ass "Kahleesi" was roasting a fleet of ships with her dragons.

[MinscS2]

I read a theory recently which I liked, even if it probably doesn't hold up to much scrutiny by the people in the know:

Rhaegar was the Prince who was Promised, Lyanna was Nissa-Nissa, and Jon is Lightbringer.
Just as with Azor Ahai, Rhaegars two first attempts at creating Lightbringer (Rhaenys and Aegon) failed, they ended up shattering (literally, the Mountain cleaved them in twain).
His third attempt succeeded, but it did cost Nissa-Nissa/Lyanna her life, as she died giving life to the Lightbringer/Jon.
 

[Sir Hedge of Hog]

I also like this quote minscS2, cos I cant see jon stabbing dany to make the light bringer, but I could see him stabbing melisandra to make the sword - perhaps she is nissa nissa. I read through a post where azor ahai is someone who has killed a Lannister and Baratheon = who could that be?

also I was reading the world of ice and fire the other day and aeron conquered the world with a Baratheon at his side. listening to jon and gendry meet and speak I wonder if this could yield clues or just a nod to the past.....more speculation,,,lol

 

[valgrel]

52 minutes ago, Sir Hedge of Hog said:

azor ahai is someone who has killed a Lannister and Baratheon = who could that be?

 

 

Cersei ?   (Kevan/Robert)

[jcmontea]

17 minutes ago, valgrel said:

Cersei ?   (Kevan/Robert)

Lol. That would be the ultimate twist.

Cersei reminds me more of Rhaenerya Targaryen. What this tale is missing is a good King’s Landing riot that forces Cersei to flee the city. 

[jcmontea]

1 hour ago, MinscS2 said:

I read a theory recently which I liked, even if it probably doesn't hold up to much scrutiny by the people in the know:

Rhaegar was the Prince who was Promised, Lyanna was Nissa-Nissa, and Jon is Lightbringer.
Just as with Azor Ahai, Rhaegars two first attempts at creating Lightbringer (Rhaenys and Aegon) failed, they ended up shattering (literally, the Mountain cleaved them in twain).
His third attempt succeeded, but it did cost Nissa-Nissa/Lyanna her life, as she died giving life to the Lightbringer/Jon.
 

I read that today as well. Its interesting. My problem with it is that as far as the show is concerned doesn’t have a lot of direct evidence pointing in this direction but it could be an interesting last minute reveal i suppose . 

[Meera of Tarth]

1 hour ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

Only thing is, this chart is attempting to graph the popularity of the show, not the quality. Popularity does not necessarily equate to quality.

And I believe that variance would support the point that @Meera of Tarth brought up in regards to the casual viewers who only tune in for certain episodes due to leaks and media hype etc. A lot of fans only tune in to certain episodes because it's the cool thing to do, and they want to be a part of the water cooler talk the next day in the office, raving about what an awesome battle scene there was, or how bad ass "Kahleesi" was roasting a fleet of ships with her dragons.

Exavtly. And graph tv from imdb lost its credibility in regards to quality once the showrunners said they were worried about the fact that Hardhome got inly 9.9 and not 10 in spite of their efforts to create the best episode. Or was it botb? Dont remember. Well u know the "action" episodes of each season. 

There is a poster who did an statistical analysis on this data and showed me on a PM some interestinf things in rwgards to the last seasons in a PM with boxplots but he finally decided not to make a thread about it since it demanded quite a lot of reading comprehension in his first drafts.

 

[Meera of Tarth]

2 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

I read a theory recently which I liked, even if it probably doesn't hold up to much scrutiny by the people in the know:

Rhaegar was the Prince who was Promised, Lyanna was Nissa-Nissa, and Jon is Lightbringer.
Just as with Azor Ahai, Rhaegars two first attempts at creating Lightbringer (Rhaenys and Aegon) failed, they ended up shattering (literally, the Mountain cleaved them in twain).
His third attempt succeeded, but it did cost Nissa-Nissa/Lyanna her life, as she died giving life to the Lightbringer/Jon.
 

Interesting new approach on the theory although i think the events of the long night about nissa nissa dont need to be repeated.

[jcmontea]

 

2 hours ago, Blackwater Revenant said:

DOnly thing is, this chart is attempting to graph the popularity of the show, not the quality. Popularity does not necessarily equate to quality.

And I believe that variance would support the point that @Meera of Tarth brought up in regards to the casual viewers who only tune in for certain episodes due to leaks and media hype etc. A lot of fans only tune in to certain episodes because it's the cool thing to do, and they want to be a part of the water cooler talk the next day in the office, raving about what an awesome battle scene there was, or how bad ass "Kahleesi" was roasting a fleet of ships with her dragons.

How does it support it?

the variance she is talking about refers to the overnight rating. When you include the 7 day and all platform rating most of that variance goes away. It looks like for the bigger episodes people are more likely to watch it same day but doesn’t mean they don’t catch up on the other episodes. And regardless, even with that variance more people are watching now than before. 

But regradless, that is a seperate thing that is being measured. This is measuring what people thought of the episodes. The variance has nothing to do with the ratings which are up on absolute terms versus the earlier seasons. The simplest expanation for the variance is simply that some of the worst episodes were in seasons 5 and 6 (5x06, 6x07, 6x08) and some of the best episodes were in those seasons (5x08, 6x09, 6x10). Not sure you need a more elaborate theory than that or there is any correlation between ratings and episode rankings since for sure the worst episodes in season 5 and 6 had more people watching but were rated as weaker episodes than those in season 1 for example.

[jcmontea]

32 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Interesting new approach on the theory although i think the events of the long night about nissa nissa dont need to be repeated.

I hope we don’t get Nissa Nissa. Or if it comes up the protagonists say f that we will find another way. 

I looked back at the only specific mention of Azor Ahai in the show that i can remember. It was in season 2 episode 1. All Melisandre says is that Azor Ahai took Lightbringer out of the fire. 

So if Lightbringer comes up again in the show the possibilities would seem to be:

1.) someone takes a weapon out of a literal fire

2.) Fire is figurative and Dany represents fire so Jon takes a weapon out of her (Nissa Nissa)

3.) Dany already took Lightbringer out of the Fire (Drogon) 

4.) Jon is Lightbringer as @MinscS2 mentioned in the theory he heard. Although not sure how Lyanna would be representative of fire in that case. 

5.) Longclaw is already lightbringer and the fire was when the pommel was burned back in season 1 

I personally am rooting for 3.) and 5.) and then both Dany and Jon can be the prince who was promissed together and some combination of Drogon and Longclaw kills the Night King. 

EDIT: that would also make this statement by Daenerys some serious foreshadowing: “we are going to defeat the Night King and his armies, and we will do it together” 

[Meera of Tarth]

it doesn't have to be taken out of the fire. that's what Mel says it happened. LB might already exist. I think it's Dawn, we got a long dhot of Dawn in the scene of baby Jon.