Season 8 Predictions?

[jcmontea]

18 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Liam on s8

So it was all new to us, and it is just, ‘Oohs,’ and, ‘Ahhs’. It is as it was in the past, it is just beautiful storytelling.

Huge surprises. Wonderful stuff. I can safely say it will be a fantastic, fantastic finish to this incredible story.

https://winteriscoming.net/2017/12/05/liam-cunningham-season-8-scripts-feature-beautiful-storytelling-huge-surprises/

hopefully we all agree with him in the end! 

20 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Ok, the show has definitely not showed Bran as the most important character, but I think we will have lots of surprises in regards to what characters who don't seem as much important now could be doing at the end. I think there will be lots of "heroes" in the end.

 there will be lots of heroes in the end. you don't have to be the most important character to show yourself heroic and play a key part in the ultimate victory and I expect everyone who is still around and on team dragon wolf to have heroic moments. 

[Meera of Tarth]

1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

hopefully we all agree with him in the end! 

 there will be lots of heroes in the end. you don't have to be the most important character to show yourself heroic and play a key part in the ultimate victory and I expect everyone who is still around and on team dragon wolf to have heroic moments. 

yep i agree

[Lord_Ravenstone]

4 hours ago, jcmontea said:

I am well aware of the theory. I have read both articles and I have had extensive discussion with the author of it on Reddit. 

I am just not convinced that everything in this series is building towards Bran killing 1 MM people to save the world and to have the story so clearly embrace a utilitarian ends justify the means philosophy as the theory postulates. 

He will clearly do something against the NK as the NK is clearly a greenseer as well so Bran's skills will be key to facing him. Just not sure him becoming a dragon rider when there is no need for more dragon riders to destroy KL is it. 

Not to say it won't happen. I just am not 100% sold on it. 

Also, I am not sure the TV show has really been building Bran up as the most important character. If we go by screen time than there is no question that Bran is WAY behind in terms of importance than Jon, Tyrion and Dany. If we go by what people say in universe its also not clear. Jon and Daenerys are considered the messiah amongst an entire religion and are embodiments of the living legend trope. Supposedly GRRM said the point of the story is those two coming together.

So Bran might in fact be the most important character in the end. He is def. the most powerful single character. But I don't think most people watching this show would say yup the story is building that guy up as the most important. Up to now he has just been a device to move along the plot. Need Jon to go beyond the wall? lets have bran tell him the NK is marching. Need to reveal Jon's parentage without bringing in a whole new character? lets have Bran witness it. Need a way for Sansa to find out how horrible Littlefinger is? lets have her talk to Bran. 

The idea that GRRM wouldn't write a story where the world is saved using utilitarian methods is false because he's already written a series like that.

 

"In Manna From Heaven, Tuf returns to S’uthlam, a planet now at war with seven other worlds, which is also facing a population crisis, and thus mass starvation. Tuf states that the crisis facing S’uthlam is so terrible that should he approach the problem like a mortal man, he would fail. The planet’s salvation requires cruel but necessary divine intervention, and in Manna From Heaven this takes on the form of the forced mass sterilization of the S’uthlamese".

 

“the nature of the crisis on S’uthlam was such that it admitted to a solution only by godlike intervention.” – Tuf, Manna From Heaven

 

GRRM is going to pull a Sodom and Gommorah on KL with Bran as God.

----

Jojen:  The Night's Watch can't stop them(Army of the Dead), the kings of Westeros and all their armies can't stop them

Sam:-looks around at them- But you're going to stop them.

 

------

Jojen: Your father told you about the Rebellion? Mine never did but I saw (using the Sight) that too.

Bran: What else have you seen?

Jojen: The only thing that matters....you.

-----

TEC: You will never walk again, Brandon Stark. But you will fly.

[Lord_Ravenstone]

GRRM may not be a nihilist but he has utilitarian leanings: 

A short discussion on Stannis' slaying of Renly. Martin just sat and listened. I made the point that killing someone on the battlefield is different from assassinating someone in their sleep.

Martin asked "Is it really? Are you saying that you would not have participating in the attempted bombing of Hitler? Instead, you'd prefer to kill him in battle where he'd have a fair chance in fighting?"

 

[jcmontea]

8 hours ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

The idea that GRRM wouldn't write a story where the world is saved using utilitarian methods is false because he's already written a series like that.

 

"In Manna From Heaven, Tuf returns to S’uthlam, a planet now at war with seven other worlds, which is also facing a population crisis, and thus mass starvation. Tuf states that the crisis facing S’uthlam is so terrible that should he approach the problem like a mortal man, he would fail. The planet’s salvation requires cruel but necessary divine intervention, and in Manna From Heaven this takes on the form of the forced mass sterilization of the S’uthlamese".

 

“the nature of the crisis on S’uthlam was such that it admitted to a solution only by godlike intervention.” – Tuf, Manna From Heaven

 

GRRM is going to pull a Sodom and Gommorah on KL with Bran as God.

----

Jojen:  The Night's Watch can't stop them(Army of the Dead), the kings of Westeros and all their armies can't stop them

Sam:-looks around at them- But you're going to stop them.

 

------

Jojen: Your father told you about the Rebellion? Mine never did but I saw (using the Sight) that too.

Bran: What else have you seen?

Jojen: The only thing that matters....you.

-----

TEC: You will never walk again, Brandon Stark. But you will fly.

We will see ultimately. But the person who proposed that theory has gotten almost every other prediction he has made wrong. Maybe this one will be one of the few times he is right. 

 

[Faera]

17 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Ok, the show has definitely not showed Bran as the most important character, but I think we will have lots of surprises in regards to what characters who don't seem as much important now could be doing at the end. I think there will be lots of "heroes" in the end.

I don't think Bran will destroy KL with a dragon. Honestly, I'm not even entirely convinced he will even skinchange a dragon anymore, though at this point they might get it in there for fanservice sake.

One thing I do feel is that despite his relatively marginalised role compared to the more active characters is that I never had cause to doubt he was one the MVPs, if not the (unexpected) MVP of them all. I'd even say in the show it could be... a little hamfisted about it. Like, the lyrics of that Nostalgia Critic parody song about Superman and Batman released three or so years ago. ("My friends only speak to me in exposition and speeches about how important and unique I am!" = Effectively all of Jojen, Benjen and Leaf's dialogue to Bran. Even Meera and BR drift to this a bit in the show.) No idea why that came to mind of all things.

Yeah, the ending will likely have a teamwork message ("We couldn't have done it if we didn't work together!") but I strongly suspect that Jon and Dany will get most of the glory while at the back of our minds we'll be thinking, "Yeah, you guys won because Bran is, literally, OP Tree God now."
 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

5 hours ago, jcmontea said:

We will see ultimately. But the person who proposed that theory has gotten almost every other prediction he has made wrong. Maybe this one will be one of the few times he is right. 

 

That doesn't really matter to me. I've seen his other theories and I disagree with many of them but this one is on the money because it's been built from Bran's story in day one and it's kinda obvious in hindsight especially since GRRM has played with these story elements in his other stories. 

[jcmontea]

45 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

EmThat doesn't really matter to me. I've seen his other theories and I disagree with many of them but this one is on the money because it's been built from Bran's story in day one and it's kinda obvious in hindsight especially since GRRM has played with these story elements in his other stories. 

Not sure a parrable exploring the sci fi equivalent of the one child policy in China is the same thing as having the climax of your seven novel story be the endorsement of nuking a civilian population in a city to prevent it from being captured by the enemy. Also, not sure having a story centered around the human heart being in contlict with itself will have the climax be the god figure with no emotion making the big hard decision and doing a deux ex brania

 

50 minutes ago, Faera said:

I don't think Bran will destroy KL with a dragon. Honestly, I'm not even entirely convinced he will even skinchange a dragon anymore, though at this point they might get it in there for fanservice sake.

One thing I do feel is that despite his relatively marginalised role compared to the more active characters is that I never had cause to doubt he was one the MVPs, if not the (unexpected) MVP of them all. I'd even say in the show it could be... a little hamfisted about it. Like, the lyrics of that Nostalgia Critic parody song about Superman and Batman released three or so years ago. ("My friends only speak to me in exposition and speeches about how important and unique I am!" = Effectively all of Jojen, Benjen and Leaf's dialogue to Bran. Even Meera and BR drift to this a bit in the show.) No idea why that came to mind of all things.

Yeah, the ending will likely have a teamwork message ("We couldn't have done it if we didn't work together!") but I strongly suspect that Jon and Dany will get most of the glory while at the back of our minds we'll be thinking, "Yeah, you guys won because Bran is, literally, OP Tree God now."
 

I agree. 

[Meera of Tarth]

49 minutes ago, Faera said:

I don't think Bran will destroy KL with a dragon. Honestly, I'm not even entirely convinced he will even skinchange a dragon anymore, though at this point they might get it in there for fanservice sake.

One thing I do feel is that despite his relatively marginalised role compared to the more active characters is that I never had cause to doubt he was one the MVPs, if not the (unexpected) MVP of them all. I'd even say in the show it could be... a little hamfisted about it. Like, the lyrics of that Nostalgia Critic parody song about Superman and Batman released three or so years ago. ("My friends only speak to me in exposition and speeches about how important and unique I am!" = Effectively all of Jojen, Benjen and Leaf's dialogue to Bran. Even Meera and BR drift to this a bit in the show.) No idea why that came to mind of all things.

 

whatever it happens, i think he will be the MVP, but i am not into the theory of him destroying KL for the humanity, but who knows.

Quote

Yeah, the ending will likely have a teamwork message ("We couldn't have done it if we didn't work together!") but I strongly suspect that Jon and Dany will get most of the glory while at the back of our minds we'll be thinking, "Yeah, you guys won because Bran is, literally, OP Tree God now."

Yes, could very well be that case!

[Faera]

3 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

whatever it happens, i think he will be the MVP, but i am not into the theory of him destroying KL for the humanity, but who knows.

I don't see how Bran destroying KL would help anything on any level. Any manner of trying to make such an idea fit into the narrative or be even necessary would be contrived no matter which way you slice it.

It doesn't make sense from a character level either. Destroying KL would need to be some form of moral dilemma in order to be dramatically worth putting into the story. The point of a moral dilemma is the choice is very specific to the person and the dramatic pay off is how that choice impacts them. However, Bran doesn't have an emotional response to anything -- he's lost all sense of self or tact. The only real bond he had left was with Meera and he unceremonially dumped her without even blinking. He doesn't really connect with his sisters on any meaningful level. Even when he's talking about Jon's true parentage, he doesn't even treat it like the anvil to the head it is going to be to Jon; just "cool story, bro" and move on.

Bottom line, he is not a character who can carry the "moral dilemma" trope anymore. He's too out of it.If Bran cannot truly appreciate the horror of destroying KL< why should I? It's destruction for the sake of it at that point. It's an excuse for explosions.

[Angel Eyes]

A prediction: Bran will try to warg the blue eyes wight dragon.

[jcmontea]

49 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

A prediction: Bran will try to warg the blue eyes wight dragon.

That is a cool idea. Effectively its the reverse of when the NK forced him out of the ravens. Bran disrupting his warg of the dead would be cool. 

51 minutes ago, Faera said:

I don't see how Bran destroying KL would help anything on any level. Any manner of trying to make such an idea fit into the narrative or be even necessary would be contrived no matter which way you slice it.

It doesn't make sense from a character level either. Destroying KL would need to be some form of moral dilemma in order to be dramatically worth putting into the story. The point of a moral dilemma is the choice is very specific to the person and the dramatic pay off is how that choice impacts them. However, Bran doesn't have an emotional response to anything -- he's lost all sense of self or tact. The only real bond he had left was with Meera and he unceremonially dumped her without even blinking. He doesn't really connect with his sisters on any meaningful level. Even when he's talking about Jon's true parentage, he doesn't even treat it like the anvil to the head it is going to be to Jon; just "cool story, bro" and move on.

Bottom line, he is not a character who can carry the "moral dilemma" trope anymore. He's too out of it.If Bran cannot truly appreciate the horror of destroying KL< why should I? It's destruction for the sake of it at that point. It's an excuse for explosions.

I agree 100%. This more than anything is the single biggest problem with the theory. Without emotion, they have robbed the choice of meaning. Its just the capricious choice of a god which is as interesting fire raining down from the heavens randomly to burn KL. Where is the human heart in contlict with itself?

[Faera]

19 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Its just the capricious choice of a god which is as interesting fire raining down from the heavens randomly to burn KL. Where is the human heart in contlict with itself?

Exactly, and if that is all it is -- why not just let the NK destroy KL? At least he has a reason to do it that wouldn't feel utter contrived.

If it was the normal Bran who found seeing a talking Hodor to be the best thing since sliced bread, the moral dilemma would mean something. To God-tier!Bran, you'd have your utilitarian-ending but when a character lacks a sense of shame it means nothing because not only will he struggle with his choice -- he won't care what other characters think.

It doesn't matter, though. As I already said, such a scenario involving Bran warging a dragon to attack KL would be more contrived and nonsensical than the bloody wight hunt!

[Lord_Ravenstone]

3 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Not sure a parrable exploring the sci fi equivalent of the one child policy in China is the same thing as having the climax of your seven novel story be the endorsement of nuking a civilian population in a city to prevent it from being captured by the enemy. Also, not sure having a story centered around the human heart being in contlict with itself will have the climax be the god figure with no emotion making the big hard decision and doing a deux ex brania

 

I agree. 

Not an endorsement just depicting a truth. War requires sacrifice. You can't win by keeping your hands clean. There's no such thing as a virtuous war.

Anyways that's a failure of the show's. 

In the books, Bran will be making this decision before he turns into a god. In fact, it is meant to be the event that turns him into a god.

Here:

The bleeding star bespoke the end,” he said to Aeron. “These are the last days, when the world shall be broken and remade. A new god shall be born from the graves and charnel pits.

 

Bran is the new god and he is born from the mass graves of the people of King's Landing.

You can tell that the show was going to replicated the books at the end of season 6 where Bran is still relatively normally but they decided to retcons things between seasons so Bran is already the emotionless god that he wasn't supposed to become yet on season 7.

[Meera of Tarth]

2 hours ago, Faera said:

I don't see how Bran destroying KL would help anything on any level. Any manner of trying to make such an idea fit into the narrative or be even necessary would be contrived no matter which way you slice it.

It doesn't make sense from a character level either. Destroying KL would need to be some form of moral dilemma in order to be dramatically worth putting into the story. The point of a moral dilemma is the choice is very specific to the person and the dramatic pay off is how that choice impacts them. However, Bran doesn't have an emotional response to anything -- he's lost all sense of self or tact. The only real bond he had left was with Meera and he unceremonially dumped her without even blinking. He doesn't really connect with his sisters on any meaningful level. Even when he's talking about Jon's true parentage, he doesn't even treat it like the anvil to the head it is going to be to Jon; just "cool story, bro" and move on.

Bottom line, he is not a character who can carry the "moral dilemma" trope anymore. He's too out of it.If Bran cannot truly appreciate the horror of destroying KL< why should I? It's destruction for the sake of it at that point. It's an excuse for explosions.

well, as I said, I'm not into that sceneario, but I think we will indeed see Bran returning to behave normally or more normally before the series ends. Otherwise, there is no reason to be invested in the character, as they'd have destroyed him.

If being a robot  is his final fate, then I see no point in making him  be a robot 10 episodes before the ending, bc people would not get invested in whatever happens to him (the possible tragic ending of becoming an unemotional person/ 3eyed being), so my guess is that he will recover his nature before the ending, regardless of his final fate being sweet, bittersweet or tragic, so as that people is invested in his actions, as I'm sure he wil have to fight, or at least, face dilemmas of some kind. 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

1 hour ago, Faera said:

Exactly, and if that is all it is -- why not just let the NK destroy KL? At least he has a reason to do it that wouldn't feel utter contrived.

If it was the normal Bran who found seeing a talking Hodor to be the best thing since sliced bread, the moral dilemma would mean something. To God-tier!Bran, you'd have your utilitarian-ending but when a character lacks a sense of shame it means nothing because not only will he struggle with his choice -- he won't care what other characters think.

It doesn't matter, though. As I already said, such a scenario involving Bran warging a dragon to attack KL would be more contrived and nonsensical than the bloody wight hunt!

Like I said, normal Bran is the one meant to do it in the books while hearing everyone's final thoughts before he brings the sword(Drogon/Lightbringer) down on their heads thereby losing himself in the process of becoming a god-like entity and absorbing them all into himself.

The show flubbed it by making Bran emotionless already.

[jcmontea]

1 hour ago, Faera said:

Exactly, and if that is all it is -- why not just let the NK destroy KL? At least he has a reason to do it that wouldn't feel utter contrived.

If it was the normal Bran who found seeing a talking Hodor to be the best thing since sliced bread, the moral dilemma would mean something. To God-tier!Bran, you'd have your utilitarian-ending but when a character lacks a sense of shame it means nothing because not only will he struggle with his choice -- he won't care what other characters think.

It doesn't matter, though. As I already said, such a scenario involving Bran warging a dragon to attack KL would be more contrived and nonsensical than the bloody wight hunt!

 More contrived and also less symbolically rich. At least with the white hunt I can actually see some interesting themes and choices the characters had to face even if the execution was spotty. God-tier!Bran has zero interesting choices. 

 

So I chatted on redit with the guy behind this page which has the best analysis of GoT music I have found so far. https://www.youtube.com/user/TheHunterYTV/featured?disable_polymer=1

He mentioned a few interesting things regarding the House of the Undying Music: 

1.) He said it is indeed the White Walkers music and its pretty obviously so. So ultimately what that means for the plot who knows but the idea of the NK being responsible for the destruction of the Red Keep looks pretty solid. 

2.) Interestingly he also made the observation that Dany's theme - Love in the Eyes - plays on a descending scale with minor notes when she approaches the throne. So this could be foreshadowing for potentially her dying during the destruction of King's Landing. Or it could just be musical reinforcement for all the other clues in the scene that she is not the rightful heir: her pulling away from the throne and not touching it, Snow falling on it, the blue rose in the window when she walks in to the throne room etc. 

 

 

[Lord_Ravenstone]

3 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

well, as I said, I'm not into that sceneario, but I think we will indeed see Bran returning to behave normally or more normally before the series ends. Otherwise, there is no reason to be invested in the character, as they'd have destroyed him.

If being a robot  is his final fate, then I see no point in making him  be a robot 10 episodes before the ending, bc people would not get invested in whatever happens to him (the possible tragic ending of becoming an unemotional person/ 3eyed being), so my guess is that he will recover his nature before the ending, regardless of his final fate being sweet, bittersweet or tragic, so as that people is invested in his actions, as I'm sure he wil have to fight, or at least, face dilemmas of some kind. 

I think this is meant to be his fate. The show did it early so the Stark reunion would be more tragic when Bran doesn't even care and hardly exists anymore. 

But it's a retcon. They came up with it between season 6 and 7. He was clearly normal when he was interacting with Benjen at the end of season 6. So the line where Meera says that Bran died in the cave rings rather false. More like he died off-screen in-between seasons.

[jcmontea]

3 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

Like I said, normal Bran is the one meant to do it in the books while hearing everyone's final thoughts before he brings the sword(Drogon/Lightbringer) down on their heads thereby losing himself in the process of becoming a god-like entity and absorbing them all into himself.

The show flubbed it by making Bran emotionless already.

They either flubbed it or its a strong indication that they are not doing it. 

 

[jcmontea]

14 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

well, as I said, I'm not into that sceneario, but I think we will indeed see Bran returning to behave normally or more normally before the series ends. Otherwise, there is no reason to be invested in the character, as they'd have destroyed him.

If being a robot  is his final fate, then I see no point in making him  be a robot 10 episodes before the ending, bc people would not get invested in whatever happens to him (the possible tragic ending of becoming an unemotional person/ 3eyed being), so my guess is that he will recover his nature before the ending, regardless of his final fate being sweet, bittersweet or tragic, so as that people is invested in his actions, as I'm sure he wil have to fight, or at least, face dilemmas of some kind. 

do they want people to get invested in what happens to him? Based on the way they treat the character its not clear he is supposed to be someone we are supposed to care about. Its almost like they heard everyone thought he was boring during seasons 1-4 so they kept him off screen for a year and then kept him to as little screen time as possible to serve his functional role in the plot and nothing more.