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Greywater-Watch

Character arcs through Season 7

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I have a look at some character arcs after Season 7. Putting aside teleporting, same gloves for everyone, unrealistic story details (as far as that is possible) and all those other annoying things in the show. I would like to be able to judge if in the respect of character arc development, D&D should be allowed to take the Black, or it should be the Black Cells uner the Red Keep with special treatment by Qyburn.

Some characters have been degraded to statist with a character arc comparable to that of un-dead Gregor Clegane:

Davos, Varys, Thormund, Brienne, Melisandre, Beric Dondarrion, Thoros, Qyburn, Jorah Mormont: Just put in place when needed to say a phrase or two. Not worth discussing.

Some others are so incomprehensible to me that I refuse to try to analyze:

Gendry, Littlefinger, Sandor Clegane, Bran Stark, Samwell Tarly, Daenerys, Jon Snow ("Pomade-Jesus"), Arya.

Cersei

  • Ruthlessness: Apparently she is supposed to appear even more ruthless than before. Which is hardly convincing, as in the previous seasons she already had attained a level practically impossible to surpass.
  • Cleverness: Unlike in the books, the show has never shown her lack in strategic and political thinking. She appears more clever now than previously, but mainly because she has weaker siblings to compare with (Jaime until the very end uncapable to imagine how Cersei thinks, Tyrion being utterly stupid now).
  • Madness: This trait appears clearly in the books (especially through her monologues and thoughts), it has never been a topic in the show. I imagine D&D want to make her appear mad through her ruthlessness, which in my opinion does not work.
  • Inner conflict: Does Cersei have some "normal" human feelings in her (guilt, empathy etc.)? Maybe her pregnancy is meant to show her human side, but I am not sure D&D want to use it in that way. It seems to be that for a moment, when the discussion between her and Tyrion after the dragonpit council (part 1) seemingly has changed once he tells her he knows she was pregnant. Unfortunately the discussion scene breaks off at exactly that moment. And anyway, if she softened her position due to that, it becomes clear at the end of episode 7 that it was just a ruse (which falls then again in the categorie ruthlessness).
  • Manipulating: She manipulates Jaime just as she has done in the seasons before. No one else to manipulate, as the whole KL court seems to consist of Jaime.
  • => D&D try to show a development, but fail as Cersei does what she has always done. Wearing black all the time makes her look more dangerous, unfortunately everyone wears black now. Her situation as absolute monarch has (no more small council, Kevin Lannister dead, all children dead) gives her solitary power, but that is more the situation which has changed.

Sansa

  • Political and governing skills: Awkwardly introduced by her being Lady of Winterfell after Jon's depparture and her trying to Keep the Northern Lords together, recommending on armory and supply incidents (one example given for each). Her repeatedly contradicting Jon in Episode 1 and 2 in front of all Northmen is a clear sign of lack of social and political skills.
  • Family thinking: Strange relation towards Arya and Bran after their reunion. Uncomprehensible tension and lack of communication between the two sisters, which does not convince me of Sansa being more mature now than in Season 1.
  • Relation to Littlefinger and Brienne: uncomprehensible to me. She seeks for Littlefinger when seeking advice and she is cold and distant towards Brienne who saved her life. And I do not believe that from the beginning she was scheming the downfall of Littlefinger together with Arya.
  • Self-Estimation: The most interesting scene for me when she blurts out (after Arya confronted her with the letter that Sansa wrote in Season 1) how regaining Winterfell was all to her credit.
  • => Mostly awkward attempt to show Sansa as a mature woman with acquired skills of a grown up noble woman, but on the other hand substantial lack of social skills. I think the very negative shadow her self-estimation in regaining Winterfell casts on her (in my view) is in fact not really intended by D&D. At least I have the Feeling, D&D tried to develop her character, but unfortunately in a very unconvincing way and inconsistently.

Tyrion

  • Poltical and governing skills: Show Tyrion was never at the superior Level as book Tyrion from Season 4 on. Now in Season 7 he appears incompetent.
  • Moral Guidelines: Tyrion was never ruthless as Cersei. But his main guideline for Daenerys (break the wheel and be different from all other rulers before) is never explained in Detail. what does it mean? But he sorts out theses phrases whenever he can. Even Pomade-Jesus' moral guidelines are more convincing to me.
  • Relation to his family/siblings: On the one hand he claims, he did not want to destroy his family, on the other hand what is left are just Jaime and Cersei. He still shows feelings for Jaime, agreed, but for Cersei? Not convincing to me. And with the battle (Red Field 2) he risked Jaime's life.
  • => I cannot see a real effort to develop Tyrion's character. D&D just use bits and pieces they believe would fit to him. The sum of it is incoherent and only explainable with Tyrion having lost a lot of his cleverness he had before.

Jaime

  • Relation/Loyalty to Cersei: He had enough elements to realize that his view of situations was unalignable to that of Cersei, but he waited until episode 7 to take the consequences and quit her.
  • => the most logical character development, only stretching it over 7 episodes was hardly bearable.

As to me, it is the Black Cells.

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21 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said:

I have a look at some character arcs after Season 7. Putting aside teleporting, same gloves for everyone, unrealistic story details (as far as that is possible) and all those other annoying things in the show. I would like to be able to judge if in the respect of character arc development, D&D should be allowed to take the Black, or it should be the Black Cells uner the Red Keep with special treatment by Qyburn.

Some characters have been degraded to statist with a character arc comparable to that of un-dead Gregor Clegane:

Davos, Varys, Thormund, Brienne, Melisandre, Beric Dondarrion, Thoros, Qyburn, Jorah Mormont: Just put in place when needed to say a phrase or two. Not worth discussing.

Some others are so incomprehensible to me that I refuse to try to analyze:

Gendry, Littlefinger, Sandor Clegane, Bran Stark, Samwell Tarly, Daenerys, Jon Snow ("Pomade-Jesus"), Arya.

Cersei

  • Ruthlessness: Apparently she is supposed to appear even more ruthless than before. Which is hardly convincing, as in the previous seasons she already had attained a level practically impossible to surpass.
  • Cleverness: Unlike in the books, the show has never shown her lack in strategic and political thinking. She appears more clever now than previously, but mainly because she has weaker siblings to compare with (Jaime until the very end uncapable to imagine how Cersei thinks, Tyrion being utterly stupid now).
  • Madness: This trait appears clearly in the books (especially through her monologues and thoughts), it has never been a topic in the show. I imagine D&D want to make her appear mad through her ruthlessness, which in my opinion does not work.
  • Inner conflict: Does Cersei have some "normal" human feelings in her (guilt, empathy etc.)? Maybe her pregnancy is meant to show her human side, but I am not sure D&D want to use it in that way. It seems to be that for a moment, when the discussion between her and Tyrion after the dragonpit council (part 1) seemingly has changed once he tells her he knows she was pregnant. Unfortunately the discussion scene breaks off at exactly that moment. And anyway, if she softened her position due to that, it becomes clear at the end of episode 7 that it was just a ruse (which falls then again in the categorie ruthlessness).
  • Manipulating: She manipulates Jaime just as she has done in the seasons before. No one else to manipulate, as the whole KL court seems to consist of Jaime.
  • => D&D try to show a development, but fail as Cersei does what she has always done. Wearing black all the time makes her look more dangerous, unfortunately everyone wears black now. Her situation as absolute monarch has (no more small council, Kevin Lannister dead, all children dead) gives her solitary power, but that is more the situation which has changed.

Sansa

  • Political and governing skills: Awkwardly introduced by her being Lady of Winterfell after Jon's depparture and her trying to Keep the Northern Lords together, recommending on armory and supply incidents (one example given for each). Her repeatedly contradicting Jon in Episode 1 and 2 in front of all Northmen is a clear sign of lack of social and political skills.
  • Family thinking: Strange relation towards Arya and Bran after their reunion. Uncomprehensible tension and lack of communication between the two sisters, which does not convince me of Sansa being more mature now than in Season 1.
  • Relation to Littlefinger and Brienne: uncomprehensible to me. She seeks for Littlefinger when seeking advice and she is cold and distant towards Brienne who saved her life. And I do not believe that from the beginning she was scheming the downfall of Littlefinger together with Arya.
  • Self-Estimation: The most interesting scene for me when she blurts out (after Arya confronted her with the letter that Sansa wrote in Season 1) how regaining Winterfell was all to her credit.
  • => Mostly awkward attempt to show Sansa as a mature woman with acquired skills of a grown up noble woman, but on the other hand substantial lack of social skills. I think the very negative shadow her self-estimation in regaining Winterfell casts on her (in my view) is in fact not really intended by D&D. At least I have the Feeling, D&D tried to develop her character, but unfortunately in a very unconvincing way and inconsistently.

Tyrion

  • Poltical and governing skills: Show Tyrion was never at the superior Level as book Tyrion from Season 4 on. Now in Season 7 he appears incompetent.
  • Moral Guidelines: Tyrion was never ruthless as Cersei. But his main guideline for Daenerys (break the wheel and be different from all other rulers before) is never explained in Detail. what does it mean? But he sorts out theses phrases whenever he can. Even Pomade-Jesus' moral guidelines are more convincing to me.
  • Relation to his family/siblings: On the one hand he claims, he did not want to destroy his family, on the other hand what is left are just Jaime and Cersei. He still shows feelings for Jaime, agreed, but for Cersei? Not convincing to me. And with the battle (Red Field 2) he risked Jaime's life.
  • => I cannot see a real effort to develop Tyrion's character. D&D just use bits and pieces they believe would fit to him. The sum of it is incoherent and only explainable with Tyrion having lost a lot of his cleverness he had before.

Jaime

  • Relation/Loyalty to Cersei: He had enough elements to realize that his view of situations was unalignable to that of Cersei, but he waited until episode 7 to take the consequences and quit her.
  • => the most logical character development, only stretching it over 7 episodes was hardly bearable.

As to me, it is the Black Cells.

 

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Jaime is conflicting to me.  On one hand he supports Cersei.  On the other hand he does the opposite very often.  I cannot figure out Jamie.

Cersei is most consistent.  She has been the prime villain all along.  I wish Ramsey was alive to flay her for a few episodes.  That would've been a fitting end.  Same goes for Meli.   Those two deserve it the most..

LF was a great character, very consistent.    Worked for the realm, did good things for the Starks, gave good advice.  Self made man.  But had no alliances, did not have a name.

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I agree to some extent, but what I see D&D are going for with the Lannister siblings is a new form of the Mad King storyline with elements of Tywin thrown in.

Jaime is conflicted about Cersei because he can see she is slowly turning into the mad king (queen). 
His whole adult life he's been spat upon for killing the mad king, even though his decision to kill him saved thousands of lives and helped end a war. That's the reason why he's so bitter at the start of the series. 
This time around he's headed towards facing the same decision (a realisation he's been struggling with all season) but he's trying hard to choose to stick with Cersei instead (which by Westerosi "rules" is the honourable thing, otherwise you're abandoning your family). 


Cersie is headed towards becoming the mad king (queen) but she has too much Tywin in her. Tyrion can anticipate the Tywin aspects of her (which he does by correctly assuming she'll turn the lords against Dany for using Dothraki and Unsullied) however he can't anticipate the mad king parts of her reasoning - the move to abandon Casterly Rock is something that Tywin would NEVER let happen, which is why it doesn't cross Tyrions mind.

I imagine with Jaime gone, Cersei might turn slightly paranoid next season as her whole family are her enemies now. 

I agree that the Sansa/Littlefinger plot line was handled very awkwardly during the last few episodes however. 
 

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