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princess brittany

sansa, arya, and dany

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On 06.09.2017 at 4:28 AM, WSmith84 said:

I think there will be some tension between the four of them.

But then Undead Army will arrive, and all tension will be gone ^_^

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33 minutes ago, Anarres said:

Daenerys has a very strong claim to the Iron Throne, but Jon's would have been better were it not for the (very public) fact that he has submitted to Daenerys. That makes it a moot point. He could go back on his pledge, but that too stands in direct opposition to his entire character. Once Jon's parents are revealed he should skyrocket to #1 on Daenerys' List because people with strong(er) claims are an ideal figure for rebellions to rally around.

Anyway, it won't matter when Tyrion and Sansa end up the most eligible partnership to rule and unite the realm once the war is over - and has claimed its near inevitable victims (i.e. Jon and Daenerys). All hail Queen Sansa!

I would argue that Jon cannot have surrendered his claim, cuz he didn't even KNOW he had it.  I cannot imagine any rules of succession that would say a person has forfeited a right they didn't even know they had.  Perhaps "Jon Snow, the King in the North" has yielded to Dany, but "Aegon Targaryen" HAS NOT.

In my mind, it is indisputable that Jon has the better claim, and frankly I'd say the number of GoT followers/fans who deny it or are arguing otherwise is very, very small.  In fact, i highly doubt there is any precedent in the history of Westeros for what you are saying (cuz the current circumstances between Jon and Dany are so bizarre), so I'm guessing that, at most your theory is just speculation.

Now, for the rest of what you said, I'll make it a hidden comment to save anyone who doesn't want to be spoiled:

 

Spoiler

We have been told the names of 5 people who will survive.  Jon and Dany are on that list, and Sansa is not.  So, frankly, I don't think it's likely that Jon and Dany are going to die and Sansa will survive to rule with Tyrion.

 

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27 minutes ago, Cron said:

Now, for the rest of what you said, I'll make it a hidden comment to save anyone who doesn't want to be spoiled:

Might I ask for the source of this statement?
I thought the script wasn't even finished yet, so I'm surprised there has already been spoilers of this magnitude. 

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25 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Might I ask for the source of this statement?
I thought the script wasn't even finished yet, so I'm surprised there has already been spoilers of this magnitude. 

The 5 characters who survive comes from George's original outline not from any Season 8 spoilers.

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

The moment she was out of Astapor and Yunkai, their masters killed her servants, and reestablished themselves again as rulers of those cities. I think that while she's in Westeros, Great Masters will again overthrow her people, and Iron Bank will help them to spread slavery in Essos.

Fire, even dragon fire, does nothing to WW or NK. They can be killed only with Valyrian steel or dragonglass. And Dany is not a fighter.

Yes, she's the one who gave dragonglass to people, but it's not as if she created that dragonglass herself. If she wasn't on Dragonstone, Jon could've just went there and take it.

Jon will save Westeros. Jon and other people who will fight.

Dany's dragons can burn wights, but as long as WW are still functioning, they can create as many wights as there are people.

As portrayed in the TV show, the masters were defeated and unless the dragons die out will not rise up again. 

Its not clear that fire does not kill WW since we have not see a dragon breath fire directly on a white walker yet. 

We will ultimatley see, but i have a feel that victory against the dead is going to be made possible by her dragons and army. Jon will probably kill the Night King, but Dany's forces will play a key role. 

 

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On 06.09.2017 at 7:08 AM, MinscS2 said:

Dany didn't make Drogo kill Viserys.
Drogo killed Viserys because he stormed into a tent and threatened to kill Drogos wife and unborn son right in front of him.

When she wrapped Drogo around her little finger, it did wonders to her ego. She realised that she doesn't need Viserys anymore. She thought why should my husband do what Viserys wants, he should do what I want, Drogo will conquer 7K but not for Viserys, he should do it for me. And for that to happen she needed to get rid of him. So she goaded him for some time, and then when he had enough, and wanted to go away, she set him up.

He stormed into a tent to take dragon eggs with him. Dany stopped him, even though she knew him, she knew how he will react. So instead of letting him go (not far, just enough to not to be a threat to her, and order her servants to stop him and take those eggs from him), she provoked him (knowing that he won't really harm her, and also that her servants are close enough to save her). 

She manipulated him, and intentionally made situation more tence. She knew that her husband won't let Viserys go away, after he threatened his wife and their unborn child.

Just watch that scene again, she knew what will happen to Viserys. She planned it.

On 06.09.2017 at 7:08 AM, MinscS2 said:

6. She convinced King in the North to bend the knee, but only after he convinced her to postpone her Crown Battle, and to fight in his war.
I genuinely don't understand the point you're trying to make here.

1. He convinced her to postpone her Crown Battle, and to fight in his war.

2. Then he bend the knee.

She will fight for him in a war where she can die. Thus she may never even get her crown. While northeners may not even acknowledge her as their Queen, even though Jon bend the knee to her.

My point is - what did he give her? nothing. While she gave him everything.

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5 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

The 5 characters who survive comes from George's original outline not from any Season 8 spoilers.

Ohh, I've completely missed this.
Can the original outline still be trusted, or do we expect him to change it or simply lie about it because...it's GRRM after all.
*fingers crossed it doesn't change*

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2 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Ohh, I've completely missed this.
Can the original outline still be trusted, or do we expect him to change it or simply lie about it because...it's GRRM after all.
*fingers crossed it doesn't change*

Its a good question. There are a lot of changes that have happened to the plot but a lot of the core broader plot points are still the same. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/08/game-of-thrones-jon-daenerys-fall-in-love-incest-george-rr-martin/amp

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19 minutes ago, Megorova said:

When she wrapped Drogo around her little finger, it did wonders to her ego. She realised that she doesn't need Viserys anymore. She thought why should my husband do what Viserys wants, he should do what I want, Drogo will conquer 7K but not for Viserys, he should do it for me. And for that to happen she needed to get rid of him. So she goaded him for some time, and then when he had enough, and wanted to go away, she set him up.

Goaded him? He made an unprovoked attack against her in her tent when she tried to give him a present and supper, at which point she had enough, slapped him with a chain and told him that if he ever attacked her again she would have his hands cut off. Viserys treats Daenerys like trash for 17 years, and when she finally defends herself, she goads him!?

He stormed into a tent to take dragon eggs with him. Dany stopped him, even though she knew him, she knew how he will react. So instead of letting him go (not far, just enough to not to be a threat to her, and order her servants to stop him and take those eggs from him), she provoked him (knowing that he won't really harm her, and also that her servants are close enough to save her). 

No, Dany didn't stop him. She didn't even know he was about to steal the eggs because she wasn't even around.
It was Jorah who stopped Viserys, because at that point he was more loyal to Daenerys than Viserys.

She manipulated him, and intentionally made situation more tence. She knew that her husband won't let Viserys go away, after he threatened his wife and their unborn child.

Just watch that scene again, she knew what will happen to Viserys. She planned it.

I think you need to re-watch their last scenes together actually. The last time Daenerys spoke with Viserys was when he told her that she wouldn't let him attack her again. After that they have one scene "together" where they don't talk to each other (when Dany eats the heart), and then they have the scene where Viserys storms into the tent with a sword and threatens to kill Dany for...well...no other reason than having his pride hurt (by Jorah.)

At no point in season 1, do we see Daenerys manipulate Viserys. Quite the opposite actually, she tries to protect him from his own stupidity on more than one occasion. After he hits her when she's pregnant however, she stops. She doesn't even talk to him after that. 
Everything bad that happened to him, he brought onto himself.

 

Edited by MinscS2

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4 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

 

I can't even respond to that. If the analysis is that Dany is the bad guy and she manipulated for poor noble Viserys.... i can't even...

Edited by jcmontea

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22 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

Its a good question. There are a lot of changes that have happened to the plot but a lot of the core broader plot points are still the same. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/08/game-of-thrones-jon-daenerys-fall-in-love-incest-george-rr-martin/amp

Thanks for the link. :)
1993 was a long time ago though, but hopefully D&D won't change too much.
I can also see that he meant that these 5 characters must survive until the end, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will survive in the end. Oh well, like I said: fingers crossed.

Edited by MinscS2

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On 06.09.2017 at 9:06 AM, jcmontea said:

"We fled before Robert's assassins could find us. Robert was your father's best friend, no? I wonder if your father knew his best friend sent assassins to murder a baby girl in her crib. Not that it matters now of course. I spent my life in foreign lands. So many men have tried to kill me. I don't remember all of their names. I have been sold like a brood mare. I have been chained and betrayed, raped and defiled. Do you know what kept me standing through all those years in exile? Faith. Not in any gods. Not in myths and legends. In myself. In Daenerys Targaryen.

Turns out that her faith is based on a misbelief that she's a rightful ruler of Seven Kingdoms, and that Iron Throne belongs to her. In many of her other speeches she says that she does what she does, because she has a right as a heir to Iron Throne. Examples:

"When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who wronged me! We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground!"

"I will take what is mine with fire and blood."

"I am the blood of the dragon." <- not you alone, Jon is also a Targaryen, furthermore he's first in succession line.

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@Megorova What's your point? You do realize that everyone thinks that she's the last Targaryen right? (Except for Bran and Samwell)
She's been the "rightful" ruler of the Seven Kingdoms during the entirety of seasons 1-6, and the majority of season 7.
It wasn't until we learned learned that Rhaegar and Lyanna actually married each other that Jon is actually ahead of her in the line of succession.
Given that only 2 people knows about Jon's heritage, can you really blame her for thinking that she's the rightful ruler? (Well, I guess you could, given your last posts in this thread.)

 

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1 hour ago, jcmontea said:

Its not clear that fire does not kill WW since we have not see a dragon breath fire directly on a white walker yet.

When WW goes thru fire, the fire goes out. Thus 'winter magic' is stronger than fire. Fire can't even harm them, so it's unlikely that it can kill them.

It was shown in episode with Hardhome, in episode when 3ER was killed, in S7E6.

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5 minutes ago, Megorova said:

When WW goes thru fire, the fire goes out. Thus 'winter magic' is stronger than fire. Fire can't even harm them, so it's unlikely that it can kill them.

It was shown in episode with Hardhome, in episode when 3ER was killed, in S7E6.

Thats possible. But its also possible they can turn off fire that is around but if they get blasted by it coming from the mouth of a dragon they can be overwhlemed. We shall see.

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52 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

I can't even respond to that. If the analysis is that Dany is the bad guy and she manipulated for poor noble Viserys.... i can't even...

Did I anywhere said that she's a bad guy, or that Viserys is poor or noble, or anything of the sorts? No, I didn't.

He got what he deserved, though she did played part in his death, and did it intentionally.

And I repeat again - I'm not a Dany hater. But let's be honest she's far from being perfect, and she does many mistakes, as does Jon.

 

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22 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

@Megorova What's your point? You do realize that everyone thinks that she's the last Targaryen right? (Except for Bran and Samwell)
She's been the "rightful" ruler of the Seven Kingdoms during the entirety of seasons 1-6, and the majority of season 7.
It wasn't until we learned learned that Rhaegar and Lyanna actually married each other that Jon is actually ahead of her in the line of succession.
Given that only 2 people knows about Jon's heritage, can you really blame her for thinking that she's the rightful ruler? (Well, I guess you could, given your last posts in this thread.)

I don't blame her for her delussions. Though I highly doubt, that when everyone will learn about Jon's parentage, she will just step down, and give Iron Throne to him. Even though according to her own logic, he has a right to be King, based on the same reasoning why she thinks now that she has a right to be Queen of 7K. So if she won't step down (and I'm sure that she won't), then that makes HER an usurper ^_^

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There is no point in killing WW or more importantly NK with dragon fire. It's really boring and is an easy way out. Plus he dude just walked over Drogon's fire in E6

I would love to see Bran having a discussion with NK as to why the MoFo is here. It's possibly the only way through which we can learn something about their endgame. 

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4 hours ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

They can get rid of Jon and declare Sansa Queen. What exactly can Dany do?

Lol. And then,  "queen" Sansa and queen Dany would put Jon in charge, because he is the most fit to lead in this troubled times.

Seriously, all the possible struggles between them for different reasons, and Jon's own identity crisis, won't last long. Or in the worst case,all that things will have to wait till the WW are dealt with. They just do not have time for that kind of narrow-mindedness now. And there is a strong possibility that some or even all of them do not survive, so what's the point?

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40 minutes ago, Megorova said:

I don't blame her for her delussions. Though I highly doubt, that when everyone will learn about Jon's parentage, she will just step down, and give Iron Throne to him. Even though according to her own logic, he has a right to be King, based on the same reasoning why she thinks now that she has a right to be Queen of 7K. So if she won't step down (and I'm sure that she won't), then that makes HER an usurper ^_^

Your using the word delusion wrong. 

Delusion means: an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.

Given how no one knows that Rhaegar's true born son is alive except for two people at this point who have not told anyone, the fact that Dany thinks she is the last Targaryen can't be a delusion by definition.

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