Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 GRRM has created a story where even the bad guys have good qualities and good guys have some bad qualities thats what makes Asoiaf so awesome IMO, so what is Shaggydog's good qualities if any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Shaggydog is a animal. Animals dosen't have moral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn Posted September 4, 2017 Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 35 minutes ago, LordImp said: Shaggydog is a animal. Animals dosen't have moral. What about giants and dragons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seams Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 As far as we know, Shaggydog has never started a fire, sent false information by letter, forced someone into an unhappy marriage, engaged in incest or baked human flesh into a pie that was served to guests. On the other hand, Shaggydog is vicious and tempermental, biting one of the Walders and Maester Luwin. Only the direwolf Summer seems to be able to keep Shaggydog in line when he starts to act up while hiding in the crypt with Bran and Rickon and their companions. If Shaggydog completed an anger management class, I think his arc would show that he could be redeemed and be among the better direwolves in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Excellent summary, Seams! I see strong parallels between Shaggydog and Jaime. Just like the Kingslayer had to endure his sister's mistreatment, Shaggydog witnessed his sister being tormented by Sansa - ribbons! leash! and then the most unusual and abject cruelty - bathed! Now both Jaime and Shaggydog are on their redemption arcs. Jaime's loss of hand foreshadows Shaggydog losing an ear or tail-tip. Shaggydog's POV chapters of WOW will give wonderful insights into his character growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 57 minutes ago, Grazdan zo Azer said: What about giants and dragons? Giants are not animals . Dragons dosen't have moral either . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn Posted September 4, 2017 Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, LordImp said: Giants are not animals . Dragons dosen't have moral either . What about Summer warged by Bran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Petyr Parker Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Grazdan zo Azer said: GRRM has created a story where even the bad guys have good qualities and good guys have some bad qualities thats what makes Asoiaf so awesome IMO, so what is Shaggydog's good qualities if any? Shaggy has the best name for a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 The direwolves mainly seem to reflect the temperament of their partner, at least when they're together. Rickon is wild and untamed, sometimes even vicious, and Shaggy is the same. Lady is gentle, trusting and well-behaved, just like Sansa was. When they are separate, they might be different, but together the Stark and wolf seem like a reflection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Shaggydog is a vessel of Rickon's character. Rickon is a kid. Kids, specially temperamental ones, have usually inmmoral behaviours to our grown up standards. So using this flawed logic, you could say Shaggydog's actions reflects Rickon's rampant personality. Rickon is an inmmoral brat, compared to Bran, who is at least guided by his 'must do the right thing' personality, even if he fails. So in a sense you could say Shaggydog's a filthy little inmmoral dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonsbone Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Whats up with this grey character posts lately? Is it some kind of a grey week?. This is the forth posts asking wheather a particular character is grey. Even an animal. Next week on westeros.org: Anorexia in Westeros - A problem among the high ladys of Westeros examined on the example of the changing hips of Jeyne Westerling. Hurry up GRRM, we are finally loosing it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Grazdan zo Azer said: What about Summer warged by Bran? Then if Bran does something immoral as Summer , it's Bran who are immoral not Summer. So if Shaggydog does something that can be considered immoral it's because he is warged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn Posted September 4, 2017 Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, LordImp said: Then if Bran does something immoral as Summer , it's Bran who are immoral not Summer. So if Shaggydog does something that can be considered immoral it's because he is warged. I don't agree. Bran controls Summer partially and sometimes he is forced by Summer to do what animal wants. That's why Jojen Reed tries to teach Bran for full control. In conclusion, sometimes Bran has to obey animal morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Absolutly you can tell he really wants to be a good wolf but Rickons wild tendancies takes over its a shame really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 15 minutes ago, Grazdan zo Azer said: I don't agree. Bran controls Summer partially and sometimes he is forced by Summer to do what animal wants. That's why Jojen Reed tries to teach Bran for full control. In conclusion, sometimes Bran has to obey animal morality. That dosen't make Summer immoral. Moral is a human invention , it dosen't exists among animals. The wolf can be wild , not immoral . Is a wolf immoral when he kills a sheep? No , he's just following instincts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn Posted September 4, 2017 Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 10 minutes ago, LordImp said: That dosen't make Summer immoral. Moral is a human invention , it dosen't exists among animals. The wolf can be wild , not immoral . Is a wolf immoral when he kills a sheep? No , he's just following instincts. This is magical world. Bran Stark gets animal instinct and Summer gets morality when they are together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordImp Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Grazdan zo Azer said: This is magical world. Bran Stark gets animal instinct and Summer gets morality when they are together. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 51 minutes ago, Stormking902 said: Absolutly you can tell he really wants to be a good wolf but Rickons wild tendancies takes over its a shame really. Yup. That time Shaggydog really, really wanted to go outside but Rickon warged into him and made him poop on the carpet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 1 hour ago, Dragonsbone said: Whats up with this grey character posts lately? Is it some kind of a grey week?. This is the forth posts asking wheather a particular character is grey. Even an animal. People have issues. They try to use fictional characters to work out those issues instead of going to therapy. Besides morally grey is Martin speak for the human condition. Please don't judge me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo of House Cartel Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 I dunno about morally grey @Grazdan zo Azer, but the scenes where Bran wargs summer could actually point towards the direwolves being smarter than your usual animal. Not sure if this is just a case of Bran interpreting the world through Summer's eyes or if it's all Summer at this point, but it might be worth looking at. I think theres every chance that all the elder races had a good degree of wisdom. I suppose Shaggy's moral compaSs, if any, will be influenced by Rickon's own personal development. As for now he's a bit bitey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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