elder brother jonothor dar Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 “My thanks, Lord Petyr, but I will be taking Lord Stark’s former quarters in the Tower of the Hand.” Littlefinger laughed. “You’re a braver man than me, Lannister. You do know the fate of our last two Hands?” “Two? If you mean to frighten me, why not say four?” “Four?” Littlefinger raised an eyebrow. “Did the Hands before Lord Arryn meet some dire end in the Tower? I’m afraid I was too young to pay them much mind.” “Aerys Targaryen’s last Hand was killed during the Sack of King’s Landing, though I doubt he’d had time to settle into the Tower. He was only Hand for a fortnight. The one before him was burned to death. And before them came two others who died landless and penniless in exile, and counted themselves lucky. I believe my lord father was the last Hand to depart King’s Landing with his name, properties, and parts all intact.” “Fascinating,” said Littlefinger. “And all the more reason I’d sooner bed down in the dungeon.” Perhaps you’ll get that wish, Tyrion thought, but he said, “Courage and folly are cousins, or so I’ve heard. Whatever curse may linger over the Tower of the Hand, I pray I’m small enough to escape its notice.” Tyrion 1 clash. Tywin also dies before Cersei burns it down and the curse is broken; but what would start the curse in the first place? Harrenhal is also cursed but only after it is burnt, will anything lift the curse on Harrenhal "The man's father was a butcher, and they grant him Harrenhal. Harrenhal, that was the seat of kings!" Tyrion 9 Got. Will Harrenhal be the new capitol? The Stark kids could be next in line to inherit it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 There's no curse. Being the Hand of the King is just a fairly dangerous position, doubly so under Aerys (who accounts for most of those unfortunate hands). Jon Arryn had fifteen years or so of being the Hand, years in which there was no sign of a curse. Saying the Tower of the Hand is cursed is akin to "you're cursed... to die (eventually)!!!", I mean yeah d'uh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Mikkel said: There's no curse. Being the Hand of the King is just a fairly dangerous position, doubly so under Aerys (who accounts for most of those unfortunate hands). Jon Arryn had fifteen years or so of being the Hand, years in which there was no sign of a curse. Saying the Tower of the Hand is cursed is akin to "you're cursed... to die (eventually)!!!", I mean yeah d'uh! Ah my fine Ser, ours is a tale of magic and fantasy. I say curses and prophecy are real to some extent. But I will side with you on the possible cursing of the Tower of the Hand. Jon Arryn was there a good long time and Tyrion can't even catch greyscale. Harrenhall, on the other hand, may well be cursed. Asshai and Valyria may be cursed along with the Lands of Always Winter--maybe even Hardhome. Harrenhall is the best haunted house in the story. It's got such a rich dark past. Still, I like your approach to it and think we should take a look at those who've held Harrenhall to determine if their length of stay are incorporate in some way with their deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 4 hours ago, elder brother jonothor dar said: Will Harrenhal be the new capitol? Westeros has no capitol. Westeros needs no capitol. Westeros has no Congress so it does not need a capitol to house it. However, Westeros might be in need of a new capital if the wildfire caches under Kings Landing go boom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 2 hours ago, TMIFairy said: Westeros has no capitol. Westeros needs no capitol. Westeros has no Congress so it does not need a capitol to house it. However, Westeros might be in need of a new capital if the wildfire caches under Kings Landing go boom. The crown could certainly use some capital to pay off the Iron Bank. Shame they didn't have any for the Faith either. But as to a capital for the country, something more central would be good. King's Landing is too far east. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 44 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: But as to a capital for the country, something more central would be good. King's Landing is too far east. One of the best locations, IMO. Maybe only Harrenhall - or something at the confluence of God River (tentative name of river flowing out of Gods Eye) and the Blackwater Rush could beat it. Maidenpool or Saltpans would be good as well. It is not so much about East or West per se but ease of access - the mouths of the Trident and Blackwater Rush give you entry to both water systems of the Riverlands. From the Blackwater Rush Basin you make a small hop to the Mander Basin. From KL you have direct maritime routes to six of the nine. And two of these - Reach and Westerlands - can be accessed by way of the Red Fork or Blackwater Rush-Mander. IMO KL/HH/MP or SP are the best locations for a capital. Full agreement that Westeros is in need of capital of the pecuniary kind. BTW - thank the Gods Old and New that GRRM avoided -berg endings. Posters would keep us entertained (?) with switching the endings to burg ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 20 minutes ago, TMIFairy said: One of the best locations, IMO. Maybe only Harrenhall - or something at the confluence of God River (tentative name of river flowing out of Gods Eye) and the Blackwater Rush could beat it. Maidenpool or Saltpans would be good as well. It is not so much about East or West per se but ease of access - the mouths of the Trident and Blackwater Rush give you entry to both water systems of the Riverlands. From the Blackwater Rush Basin you make a small hop to the Mander Basin. From KL you have direct maritime routes to six of the nine. And two of these - Reach and Westerlands - can be accessed by way of the Red Fork or Blackwater Rush-Mander. IMO KL/HH/MP or SP are the best locations for a capital. Full agreement that Westeros is in need of capital of the pecuniary kind. BTW - thank the Gods Old and New that GRRM avoided -berg endings. Posters would keep us entertained (?) with switching the endings to burg ... Even discounting the East-West feud (we all know that no Westerosi can rap so they should really drop it), there's still the North-South issue. Wouldn't something in the Riverlands, like Harrenhall or Riverrun, or The Twins be more accessible to those further North? I mean, the people of Westeros didn't exactly get to vote on this issue. There's a good chance that KL will burn down one way or another, so that will be a good time to address the point. It would be better if they'd put out some feelers early, but we wouldn't want the insurance company that holds the policy on KL getting nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 IMO the North does not really matter in the great order of things as far as the Seven Kingdoms are concerned. It is only the Lower Six that matters. The North is neither rich nor well populated. Due to the swamps of the Neck it is more accessible by sea than by land. The Kingsroad can be used by couriers, by armies or for some small volume and high value items - everything else goes by sea. If KL biurns, then I'd vote for Harrenhall, Duskendale, or Maidenpool/Saltpans. Riverrun is too far inland IMO, but probably could serve as well, especially if Dorne is treated as another outlier in like manner as the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon_Tor Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 7 hours ago, elder brother jonothor dar said: Will Harrenhal be the new capitol? The Stark kids could be next in line to inherit it Yes, I think that's very likely where Sansa ends up. She has the blood of the Whents/Lothstons, the only family to hold Harrenhal for any length of time successfully, so if there's a curse she would seem to have the best chances of dodging it. With Littlefinger having ownership of the castle and claiming her as his natural daughter it's not hard to see a twisted way she could wind up with the place. Then you add the fact that she's a Tully it seems like she has a pretty good shot at being Queen of Rivers. Of course that brings her into conflict with Daenerys. Jury's still out on how that goes down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 57 minutes ago, TMIFairy said: IMO the North does not really matter in the great order of things as far as the Seven Kingdoms are concerned. It is only the Lower Six that matters. The North is neither rich nor well populated. Due to the swamps of the Neck it is more accessible by sea than by land. The Kingsroad can be used by couriers, by armies or for some small volume and high value items - everything else goes by sea. If KL biurns, then I'd vote for Harrenhall, Duskendale, or Maidenpool/Saltpans. Riverrun is too far inland IMO, but probably could serve as well, especially if Dorne is treated as another outlier in like manner as the North. Sure you say this now but when the Others show up you'll be singing a different tune about the importance of the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 22 hours ago, TMIFairy said: The North is neither rich nor well populated. Due to the swamps of the Neck it is more accessible by sea than by land. The Kingsroad can be used by couriers, by armies or for some small volume and high value items - everything else goes by sea. That's certainly the impression most of the story gives—but then how did the Freys get so rich off the Twins that everyone else in the RIverlands resents them? Often the North seems like the Scottish Highlands without any Lowlands or any other land of any use, and the only reason the Seven Kingdoms would really want them is completism and bragging rights over how much land they control. But sometimes it seems like Winterfell must be more like Novgorod at its peak, dominating the world's fur trade or something of equivalent value. The reality must be somewhere in between the two. (Or it may just not be consistent, because GRRM didn't really think through his world-building before starting the first novel.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 1 hour ago, falcotron said: (Or it may just not be consistent, because GRRM didn't really think through his world-building before starting the first novel.) Seems about right Looking at the map it seems that the bridge is from nowhere to nowhere ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegon1FanBoy Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 The only legit curse i see in the series is garin's curse. No indirect destruction of enemies he called down a curse and it came Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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