Will we see Roslin Tully in TWOW Prologue? Who could be POV character?

[Blooddragon]

Last time we heard of Roslin Frey Tully, she was pregnant at the Twins. It seems that she likes her husband Edmure and prays for the child to be a girl. Jaime promises Edmure that his wife will be allowed to stay at Casterly Rock with him. We don't know will they travel together, but if they do we might see them at the very beginning of TWOW with Jayne Westerling who is confirmed to be traveling with Edmure and GRRM himself said we will see her in the prologue of TWOW, which is mistery to me.

I'm not familiar with timeline, but I'll assume that the Red Wedding took place in the end of 299 AC and now we're in the second half of 300 AC or that the year is ending (correct me if I'm wrong). So, I think that Roslin already gave birth or will give birth in the prologue. Either way she will need a maester, possibly Maester Brenett who we met when Catelyn visits him to ask about Roslin.

For long time I was trying to realize who will be next prologue's POV character. I though it would be a Lannister soilder, member of BWB or Jayne's mother, but they didn't fit George's pattern, only a maester would. But which maester? Maester Vyman, the only one I could think of, is at Riverrun and is an old man, so I don't believe that he would leave the castle. But today I remembered Roslin and one thing led to another. I came to conclusion that the maester in prologue could be Brenett.

My theory probably isn't true and has a lot of complications. Timeline could be incorrect, Jayne probably ran away with Blackfish, Roslin could die while giving birth at the Twins, Brenett probably won't leave the Twins and maybe we won't see him again, but I would still like to hear what other people think of my theory. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

The Jeyne we saw in Jaime's chapter was real, as per grrm, meaning she didn't run away with the Blackfish.  So that leaves us with the party heading west.  Your statements about the maesters always being the pov in the prologue seems correct so I agree there are not many options.  Roslins baby does provide an interesting scenario.  It seems we must be getting some sort of rescue attempt in the chapter, otherwise the only knowledge we would gain would seemingly be something trivial, like a confirmation from Jeynes mother about the potion she was drinking or how long she was working with Tywin.  Interesting, but trivial, not worth an entire prologue.  

That said, the other thing about the prologues is that they seem to introduce a magical element.

got - WW's

sos - red priests

cok - ww's + wights en masse

ffc - faceless men

dwd - skinchanging

wow - ?  Perhaps Nymerias pack is involved in the rescue, perhaps the Westerling family shares knowledge of the woman who made Cersei's prophecy, I can't really think of any other magical elements, but then again I wouldn't have seen the Red priestess's coming.

[Nevets]

I doubt it is going to be a rescue attempt.  I don't think the Blackfish or the Brotherhood has the resources or the time to put one together before they enter friendly territory.  

My guess is that the Prologue occurs at Casterly Rock, which we havwe yet to see, and that Jeyne and Edmure arrive there during the chapter.  We could get updates on events in the Riverlands and King's Landing, plus what's going on with the Lannsiters in general.  The maester at CR could be the POV or it could be someone like Martyn or Damien, the castellan.

As to the OP, I think it has been 7-9 months since the Red Wedding, so Roslin is most likely approaching her due date.  She is almost certainly still at the Twins, and will be until the birth.  At that time, I expect her to travel to Casterly Rock to be with her husband (they actually seem to like each other).

[Blooddragon]

18 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The Jeyne we saw in Jaime's chapter was real, as per grrm, meaning she didn't run away with the Blackfish.  So that leaves us with the party heading west.  Your statements about the maesters always being the pov in the prologue seems correct so I agree there are not many options.  Roslins baby does provide an interesting scenario.  It seems we must be getting some sort of rescue attempt in the chapter, otherwise the only knowledge we would gain would seemingly be something trivial, like a confirmation from Jeynes mother about the potion she was drinking or how long she was working with Tywin.  Interesting, but trivial, not worth an entire prologue.  

That said, the other thing about the prologues is that they seem to introduce a magical element.

got - WW's

sos - red priests

cok - ww's + wights en masse

ffc - faceless men

dwd - skinchanging

wow - ?  Perhaps Nymerias pack is involved in the rescue, perhaps the Westerling family shares knowledge of the woman who made Cersei's prophecy, I can't really think of any other magical elements, but then again I wouldn't have seen the Red priestess's coming.

I was really reckless while writing, but after your post I thought a little and I realised we already had White Walkers, wights, R'hllor / red priests, Faceless Man and skinchangers / wargs, but we never really had anything about Children of the Forest who appear only in 2-3 of Bran's chapters and we know a little about them.

Ghost of High Heart and / or Maggy the Frog could belong to Children's race and there are theories that they're the same person (which I don't agree with) and I think that it's confirmed that Maggy is Jayne's relative so this wouldn't be complete nonesense. It would take place in the Riverlands or the Wersterlands and either way my theory could end up being true.

The second option is Nymeria's pack, as you mentioned it. I believe they will have a huge role in the wars to come along with other Stark direwolfs. They really deserve a prologue, but maybe ADOS wil be more fitting.

And the third and most unlikely situation is that we will learn more about R'hollor from Thoros, but I wouldn't like it.

[Adam Yozza]

18 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

The Jeyne we saw in Jaime's chapter was real, as per grrm, meaning she didn't run away with the Blackfish.  So that leaves us with the party heading west.  Your statements about the maesters always being the pov in the prologue seems correct so I agree there are not many options.  Roslins baby does provide an interesting scenario.  It seems we must be getting some sort of rescue attempt in the chapter, otherwise the only knowledge we would gain would seemingly be something trivial, like a confirmation from Jeynes mother about the potion she was drinking or how long she was working with Tywin.  Interesting, but trivial, not worth an entire prologue.  

That said, the other thing about the prologues is that they seem to introduce a magical element.

got - WW's

sos - red priests

cok - ww's + wights en masse

ffc - faceless men

dwd - skinchanging

wow - ?  Perhaps Nymerias pack is involved in the rescue, perhaps the Westerling family shares knowledge of the woman who made Cersei's prophecy, I can't really think of any other magical elements, but then again I wouldn't have seen the Red priestess's coming.

The bolded is incorrect- The prologue POV's we've had so far were a Night's Watch ranger (Will in AGOT), a Maester (Cressen in ACOK), a Nights Watch Steward (Chett), a Maester in training (whatshisface; Pate I think; in AFFC) and a wildling (Varamyr in ADWD). So it could be anybody we know to be in the party; Jeyne, Edmure, one of the other Westerlings Forley Prester or even some random dude we've never met (Jon the fisherman's son turned conscript soldier from Kayce for all we know).

But yeah, you're right that all of them involve magic of some sort and I'll go a step further and say all of them provide information to the readers that is relevent to other characters (e.g. the Varamyr chapter told us more about the rules of warging that we don't learn through Bran; because his teacher is skipping the 'unimportant' stuff; and introduced to the concept of second life). So the idea about Nymeria's wolfpack and the Westerling ties to Maggy aren't unlikely.

15 hours ago, Nevets said:

I doubt it is going to be a rescue attempt.  I don't think the Blackfish or the Brotherhood has the resources or the time to put one together before they enter friendly territory.  

My guess is that the Prologue occurs at Casterly Rock, which we havwe yet to see, and that Jeyne and Edmure arrive there during the chapter.  We could get updates on events in the Riverlands and King's Landing, plus what's going on with the Lannsiters in general.  The maester at CR could be the POV or it could be someone like Martyn or Damien, the castellan.

As to the OP, I think it has been 7-9 months since the Red Wedding, so Roslin is most likely approaching her due date.  She is almost certainly still at the Twins, and will be until the birth.  At that time, I expect her to travel to Casterly Rock to be with her husband (they actually seem to like each other).

Here's one thing you're forgetting. The POV's during the Prologues and Epilogue's always die and its always either an assasination/murder (Kevan, Merrett, Pate, Cressen) or death by White Walkers (Will, Chett, Sixskins). Its not peaceful or accidental. So whoever we see the Winds prologue from is going to die. Jaime's whole "Fill them with arrows if they try and run" thing from Dance combined with the knowledge that the Brotherhood is operating around Riverrun is setting up a rescue attempt. This also makes the most sense with the whole 'the POV has to die thing. If its some random guard or Prester himself then the Brotherhood/Nymeria could kill them. If the POV is Edmure (most likely, I think) then he'll probably get killed as they try and free him.

[jthurman14]

It struck me too that the POV could be a Maester. A POV of sorts, like a hastily written account of something concerning Roslin and the babe. or the happenings of the party headed for CR. Which could lead to a number of possible mysteries/misunderstandings. Like: Being attacked by giant wolf pack. Several dead and missing (assumed dead). It could convey a lot while giving very little in solid fact that we will get to piece together as we go. Very GRRM IMHO. This would also allow for the Prologue POV to meet a bad end as the others have.

[Nevets]

10 hours ago, Adam Yozza said:

Here's one thing you're forgetting. The POV's during the Prologues and Epilogue's always die and its always either an assasination/murder (Kevan, Merrett, Pate, Cressen) or death by White Walkers (Will, Chett, Sixskins). Its not peaceful or accidental. So whoever we see the Winds prologue from is going to die. Jaime's whole "Fill them with arrows if they try and run" thing from Dance combined with the knowledge that the Brotherhood is operating around Riverrun is setting up a rescue attempt. This also makes the most sense with the whole 'the POV has to die thing. If its some random guard or Prester himself then the Brotherhood/Nymeria could kill them. If the POV is Edmure (most likely, I think) then he'll probably get killed as they try and free him.

GRRM is tricksy bird, so I am not going to assume that he will continue any apparent patterns.  Just because all POVs in previous Prologue/Epilogue chapters have died doesn't mean that the one in TWOW has to.  Also, George likes to defy the readers expectations, and given the virtually universal expectation of a rescue attempt, I would guess that he will give us something else.  I certainly hope there isn't a rescue attempt because I feel it would be doomed to failure, and I like Edmure and Jeyne.

[Adam Yozza]

7 hours ago, Nevets said:

GRRM is tricksy bird, so I am not going to assume that he will continue any apparent patterns.  Just because all POVs in previous Prologue/Epilogue chapters have died doesn't mean that the one in TWOW has to.  Also, George likes to defy the readers expectations, and given the virtually universal expectation of a rescue attempt, I would guess that he will give us something else.  I certainly hope there isn't a rescue attempt because I feel it would be doomed to failure, and I like Edmure and Jeyne.

Fair enough. All the setup though has been for a rescue attempt so it wouldn't surprise me if GRRM went that route but twisted it to shock us in some way.

 

[beauty6]

On 9/10/2017 at 10:48 PM, Nevets said:

 

My guess is that the Prologue occurs at Casterly Rock, which we havwe yet to see, and that Jeyne and Edmure arrive there during the chapter.  

 

My impression was, Jeyne and Edmure were escorted to two totally different locations, they only started together, but their ways parted afterwards. Edmure was sent to Casterly Rock, that part is correct. Jeyne, however was sent to live with her father, on condition she stays not married for two years. So no Jeyne at Casterly Rock.

I would be very surprised at the rescue attack. I perceived Jaime's arrangement just as caution, not preparation for a real threat. But we shall see. (If we live to see the next book.)

[Blooddragon]

12 hours ago, Nevets said:

GRRM is tricksy bird, so I am not going to assume that he will continue any apparent patterns.  Just because all POVs in previous Prologue/Epilogue chapters have died doesn't mean that the one in TWOW has to.  Also, George likes to defy the readers expectations, and given the virtually universal expectation of a rescue attempt, I would guess that he will give us something else.  I certainly hope there isn't a rescue attempt because I feel it would be doomed to failure, and I like Edmure and Jeyne.

He might be a tricksy bird, but he is not a person who will change the way he does things after all this time.

But you are right about the rescue attempt. We all know that he will do something we don't expect. He didn't tell us about Jayne without a reason.

[tugela]

Jeyne is a Frey, so if the brotherhood intercepts them, Lady Stoneheart will hang her.

[A wilding]

Wasn't Jeyne a Westerling rather than a Frey?

It is possible that Lady Stoneheart may not be fully aware of the Westerling treachery, especially as Jeyne's brother Raynald is assumed to have been murdered by the Freys at the Red Wedding. She might consider Jeyne as being on her side, especially given the pregnancy possibility.

 

[Whitering]

Jeyne is on her side, it's her Mother that isn't and even her Mother is pissed at the Lannisters for her son having been killed at the Red Wedding. Remember, none of her children were in on the scheme, possibly not even her husband. Nobody will know until the rewards from the Lannisters start rolling in, but that's not likely to happen as Cersei will not honour anything, and Jaime isn't getting back to KL any time soon.

[aryagonnakill#2]

On ‎9‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 8:43 AM, Adam Yozza said:

The bolded is incorrect- The prologue POV's we've had so far were a Night's Watch ranger (Will in AGOT), a Maester (Cressen in ACOK), a Nights Watch Steward (Chett), a Maester in training (whatshisface; Pate I think; in AFFC) and a wildling (Varamyr in ADWD). So it could be anybody we know to be in the party; Jeyne, Edmure, one of the other Westerlings Forley Prester or even some random dude we've never met (Jon the fisherman's son turned conscript soldier from Kayce for all we know).

But yeah, you're right that all of them involve magic of some sort and I'll go a step further and say all of them provide information to the readers that is relevent to other characters (e.g. the Varamyr chapter told us more about the rules of warging that we don't learn through Bran; because his teacher is skipping the 'unimportant' stuff; and introduced to the concept of second life). So the idea about Nymeria's wolfpack and the Westerling ties to Maggy aren't unlikely.

Here's one thing you're forgetting. The POV's during the Prologues and Epilogue's always die and its always either an assasination/murder (Kevan, Merrett, Pate, Cressen) or death by White Walkers (Will, Chett, Sixskins). Its not peaceful or accidental. So whoever we see the Winds prologue from is going to die. Jaime's whole "Fill them with arrows if they try and run" thing from Dance combined with the knowledge that the Brotherhood is operating around Riverrun is setting up a rescue attempt. This also makes the most sense with the whole 'the POV has to die thing. If its some random guard or Prester himself then the Brotherhood/Nymeria could kill them. If the POV is Edmure (most likely, I think) then he'll probably get killed as they try and free him.

I should've been clearer.  The POVs in the south, which the upcoming book will be are from maesters.  I consider Pate a maester for those purposes

[Ibbison from Ibben]

a guess -

POV - Sybell Spicer Westerling

location - Casterly Rock

magical content reveal - Sybell, frustrated with her daughter's ongoing devotion to her dead husband, reveals to Jeyne Westerling Stark that she dosed both her and Robb with love potions.

death - Jeyne pushes her mother over the edge of the Rock; Sybell falls to her death.

[HexMachina]

14 hours ago, Ibbison from Ibben said:

a guess -

POV - Sybell Spicer Westerling

location - Casterly Rock

magical content reveal - Sybell, frustrated with her daughter's ongoing devotion to her dead husband, reveals to Jeyne Westerling Stark that she dosed both her and Robb with love potions.

death - Jeyne pushes her mother over the edge of the Rock; Sybell falls to her death.

This doesn't seem to contribute much to the main narrative though, whereas previous prologues have (The Others attack, Melisandre's power, FotFM, the Citadel setup, Warging 101). 

An interesting idea but I don't personally rate it too likely

[Whitering]

They will be attacked by Wolves, not the Blackfish. Nymeria extends the will of Arya and will head into the Westerlands next, she can't just stay in the Riverlands forever. 400 men against an army of wolves coming in the night and probably slaughtering all save for Edmure. I have some sympathy for his wife, but I think the "Gods" as it were are seeing an end to all involved in the Red Wedding. It needn't be obvious or anything but something that will strengthen the belief in the gods by those ignorant of the truth of each death.

That gun has to go off eventually and it won't be against the Others. Death is coming to the Boltons via other means in the North, the Karstarks have ended and the reign of the Thenns has begun, the Lannisters will not survive the books, and neither will the Freys.

[Arthur Connington]

The blackfish might be the pov character, George RR Martin said that Jeyne Westerling, Robb' widow would be in the prologue. so it would make sense to let Jeyne and the blackfish meet up again.

[Whitering]

37 minutes ago, Arthur Connington said:

The blackfish might be the pov character, George RR Martin said that Jeyne Westerling, Robb' widow would be in the prologue. so it would make sense to let Jeyne and the blackfish meet up again.

George doesn't tend to have the action start be the PoV, so maybe if it's The Blackfish coming along to the slaughter of the party by wolves or something.