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Tyrion1991

(Spoilers) - The War makes no sense

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7 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

That's why I said I hate bringing up the books, but it just goes to show what an actually smart Varys would do; ensure his control over KL information is as tight as ever. Also, completely failing to do any spywork outside of reading over Jon's emails for 'anything good' is not just a regular misjudgment a smart person is capable of making from time to time. It's a complete failure to do one's supposed job. As someone else here put it, he brought no actionable information to the table.

Show!Varys received a lobotomy with the teleportation device he used to get from Meereen to Dorne to Meereen so fast.

Agree. He was useless. 

But I wrote something else after I edited that I actually don't know how much smarter book Varys will turn out to be than show Varys. Have to see how it plays out. But at the moment, it seems being aligned with Aegon versus Daenerys is going to be a huge costly blunder for book Varys. While tactically he is acting smart by not distancing himself physically from the little birds, strategically I think show Varys is making the better bet.  

Once those Dragons were born, the smart play was to  instantly mark all your plans to market and realize you are betting on the wrong horse. Allowing a mission as important as Aegon's to go win Dany's favor to play out with you so distant and unable to influence it could very well be his undoing. 

In a way, being away from the action seems to be harming both show and book Varys. but for book Varys the mistake might be fatal whereas for show Varys its recoverable if he can re-establish control of his network. 

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55 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

1. Has the quality of the writing declined over time?  I disagree on that one to begin with.  Seasons 6 and 7 were much better than Season 5 (the low point of the show IMO) and I'd say comparable in quality to a lot ose to Beardy below. f the earlier seasons.  below.

2. I think the Olenna/Highgarden stuff is explained pretty well and clearly in the show.  Olenna says herself the Tyrells were never fighters and their top military bannermen the Tarlys betrayed them.  Olenna has no reason to run and hide at this point- her house and land is finished and she has nothing left to live for.  That's what makes that final scene with her and Jamie all the better.  She just wants to die and take Cersei down with her by revealing the truth about Joffrey's death.  

1. A reasonable  response. I could have been more precise in my earlier post. I wouldn't maintain that the decline in quality has been linear. Perhaps 7 is better than 5.  I'm not sufficiently motivated to go back and do a point-by-point analysis of the two seasons. I don't think 7 is comparable in quality to the earlier material. See my response to Beardy. 

2  Oh, there's an explanation. It just isn't worth much. The betrayal  is wildly implausible, especially since it appears that just about all the Tyrell bannermen (or at least all of them between Olenna and KL) participated. The Queen of Thorns has plenty of reason to get away. She has been intent on revenge for some time now. She wouldn't want her enemies to acquire all her gold. She wouldn't trust the Lannisters to give her an easy death. Finally, that "Did we fight well?" line is still a howler. It's like the coach asking if his boys played well in the big game. 

44 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Honestly, I have to agree with you to an extent; I think Game of Thrones in its current state is as plausible as Star Wars. While I find Star Wars entertaining, I don't consider it 'deep', 'emmy-worthy', 'gritty', or even worthy of critical acclaim. It belongs into the fantasy genre ghetto, as it conforms to the things expected of genre ghettos. It is what it is, and that's absolutely fine.

I wouldn't be so ranty about Game of Thrones if it wasn't dressing itself up as something bigger and worthier of critical attention. The first few seasons established a world where characters were human, actions had consequences, and shit held up to a moderate level of scrutiny. My anger comes from the fact that it's fallen into the same kind of mindless, spectacle-ridden popcorn fluff that throws fantasy into its genre ghetto to begin with, but people are continuing to pretend (or are too emotionally pot-committed to accept otherwise) that it's somehow this amazing, emmy-worthy piece of brilliance and that D & D deserve all the accolades for riding off the coat-tails of GRRM then capitalising on the worst parts of his work and going 'LOOK AT HOW CREATIVE AND AWESOME WE ARE!'

Seriously, have a look at any 'Inside the Episode', and you'll see how superficial D & D's creative process is. They're nothing special. They're just regular TV writing hacks, dime a dozen, the very reason fantasy lives in the genre ghetto it does. If more people treated Game of Thrones as the schlock it is, I'd be fine, but the fact they pretend it's worthy of critical acclaim frustrates me.

I understand your point of view. I agree about the first few seasons. I'd be more positive in my grading of them than you are. It appears that we are on the same page when it comes to a desire to see well-constructed universes, with interesting characters who act in accord with the laws of said universes.

I haven't watched "Inside the Episode." maybe I'll take a look.  

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13 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

If there is, I bet it was the one who Theon "accidentally" killed at the end of episode 7.

He's not dead. He was still moving/breathing after his fight with Theon. He's just unconsciousness. Maybe has a concussion, several broken teeth, black eye and broken nose, but otherwise he wasn't seriously injured, at least not to extent that it may be a threat to his life.

But I also thought that he may be the Snitch. It will be played out as a great dramatic reveal, when Theon will arrive to save Yara, he will be captured by Euron's people, and among them will be the same guy that Theon has beat previously. And he will mock Theon for his stupidity, and pay him back for his beating.

12 hours ago, jcmontea said:

Not sold on this since no real evidence,

What further evidence do you need? - Each time when Yara's fleet was involved, Dany's plan failed. Thus the traitor is in Yara's fleet.

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13 minutes ago, Jabul said:

I understand your point of view. I agree about the first few seasons. I'd be more positive in my grading of them than you are. It appears that we are on the same page when it comes to a desire to see well-constructed universes, with interesting characters who act in accord with the laws of said universes.

I haven't watched "Inside the Episode." maybe I'll take a look.  

Quotes from this include:

"God damn it, we want that freakin' wight polar bear."

"At some point, you've got to start wondering... what the hell is this plot?"

"Creatively it made sense, because we wanted it to happen."

Then there's David Benioff's response to criticism that they're drifting from the themes of the novels with "Themes are for eighth-grade book reports."

And this is a man who has an MA in creative writing. No wonder the world over looks down on the American education system outside of Harvard :P

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9 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

But I wrote something else after I edited that I actually don't know how much smarter book Varys will turn out to be than show Varys. Have to see how it plays out. But at the moment, it seems being aligned with Aegon versus Daenerys is going to be a huge costly blunder for book Varys. While tactically he is acting smart by not distancing himself physically from the little birds, strategically I think show Varys is making the better bet.

Agreed, it does look like his backing of Aegon will turn out to be Varys's blunder, but it's at least a blunder that is plausible for a smart person to make; he assumes Daenerys will be swamped unto perpetuity in Slaver's Bay and need Aegon's help. Then this plan backfires. That's actually plausible for the fall of a smart character.

Not 'he abandons his spy network of fucking children, leaving a random disgraced Citadel student to bribe them with candied plums and then passively wondering why he's not receiving spy mail'.

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10 minutes ago, Megorova said:

He's not dead. He was still moving/breathing after his fight with Theon. He's just unconsciousness. Maybe has a concussion, several broken teeth, black eye and broken nose, but otherwise he wasn't seriously injured, at least not to extent that it may be a threat to his life.

Are you sure about that? I just re-watched the scene and he doesn't seem to be breathing after Theon get's up (and he certainly ain't moving), and the rest of the ironborn go to their boats and prepare to leave and seem intent on leaving him where he lies. The last punch Theon threw seemed aimed to kill, since the guy was already knocked out.
I might be wrong though, we'll find out next season. :)

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33 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Technically Cersei was pushed back to Kings Landing before Dany moves north. This is shown when the Dothraki and the Usullied can simply march up to the the edge of Kings Landing and just stand there. They might be in hostile territory, but there's no one to oppose them or attack them in the back.

I'm not sure if Dany actually "controls" The Reach, parts of the Westerlands and parts of the Crownlands by the end of season 7, but we know that Cersei doesn't, and since we don't get any info regarding houses and lords rebelling against Dany, we can assume that they are "under her control" (what that actually means is anyone's guess).

Now when Dany leaves, Cersei is free to "retake control" of pretty much everything again, but as with Dany, we don't really know what "control" really means, since the show doesn't depict the allegiances and thoughts of vassal lords and houses in the lands they conquer.
 

Not really. Cersei hasn't pulled her forces back to the capital. Just because Dany has presence there doesn't mean that Cersei has been pushed back there. In that case Dany would literally have control of the whole continent other than the North and the Vale. But take a historical example: Imperial Rome did not pull its legions back from its imperial territories even when Hannibal was at the gates of the city. Or a more recent example, The British Empire did not pull its forces back from its empire even when the Nazis were bombing the crap out of the mainland. Dany has forces in the Crownlands (the Dothraki after the 7x04 battle). If Cersei is really restricted to just KL is she really even worth bothering with so much right now? One city wouldn't give her the importance they seem to be giving her.

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15 minutes ago, Hajk1984 said:

Not really. Cersei hasn't pulled her forces back to the capital. Just because Dany has presence there doesn't mean that Cersei has been pushed back there. In that case Dany would literally have control of the whole continent other than the North and the Vale. But take a historical example: Imperial Rome did not pull its legions back from its imperial territories even when Hannibal was at the gates of the city. Or a more recent example, The British Empire did not pull its forces back from its empire even when the Nazis were bombing the crap out of the mainland. Dany has forces in the Crownlands (the Dothraki after the 7x04 battle). If Cersei is really restricted to just KL is she really even worth bothering with so much right now? One city wouldn't give her the importance they seem to be giving her.

I would never compare the military strength of Ancient Rome during Hannibals invasion or The British Empire during WW2 to Cersei in S7E7: Cersei's armies are battleworn and the Lannister forces have taken some massive casualties since the series started.

Also, the leaders of Rome and the British Empire where nowhere near as self-centered as Cersei: They wanted to continue protecting their territories and not just their capitals - Cersei on the other hand, would easily consolidate all of her strength to Kings Landing if she thought it would increase her chances of surviving. I really can't see her having armies on standby in other areas of Westeros if the threat of an invasion to Kings Landing is imminent. 

And no, I personally don't think that Cersei is as important as the show seems to depict. She is in a weak position and Team Dany could've (and should've) easily wiped her out, but they won't because of the writing reasons. 

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1 hour ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Agreed, it does look like his backing of Aegon will turn out to be Varys's blunder, but it's at least a blunder that is plausible for a smart person to make; he assumes Daenerys will be swamped unto perpetuity in Slaver's Bay and need Aegon's help. Then this plan backfires. That's actually plausible for the fall of a smart character.

Not 'he abandons his spy network of fucking children, leaving a random disgraced Citadel student to bribe them with candied plums and then passively wondering why he's not receiving spy mail'.

So its a smart move to bet your life on a young capricious kid going to Meereen in order to seduce and marry the most important woman in the world, effectively outsourcing the most important negotiation to someone who probably has never done it in his life?

Wouldn't the smart move be to actually handle this negotiation your self? To send the person you most trust in the world - which is probably yourself - to talk with Daenerys face to face, let her know about Aegon and open formal negotiations with her regarding a marriage alliance? 

Instead they trusted the kid to do it himself and his protector who takes orders from the kid. 

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26 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

So its a smart move to bet your life on a young capricious kid going to Meereen in order to seduce and marry the most important woman in the world, effectively outsourcing the most important negotiation to someone who probably has never done it in his life?

Wouldn't the smart move be to actually handle this negotiation your self? To send the person you most trust in the world - which is probably yourself - to talk with Daenerys face to face, let her know about Aegon and open formal negotiations with her regarding a marriage alliance? 

Instead they trusted the kid to do it himself and his protector who takes orders from the kid. 

While he's pretty dumb to assume Aegon's 'training' is complete and successful (and I think that's his ego talking), I don't think he's betting his life. The fact he's in King's Landing means his options are open, especially given the regime is falling apart around him (partially on his own orders).

Yes, it's admittedly not super smart, but it's a lot better than just passively wondering why none of his little kiddywinks have told him anything for donkey's years.

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33 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

So its a smart move to bet your life on a young capricious kid going to Meereen in order to seduce and marry the most important woman in the world, effectively outsourcing the most important negotiation to someone who probably has never done it in his life?

Wouldn't the smart move be to actually handle this negotiation your self? To send the person you most trust in the world - which is probably yourself - to talk with Daenerys face to face, let her know about Aegon and open formal negotiations with her regarding a marriage alliance? 

Instead they trusted the kid to do it himself and his protector who takes orders from the kid. 

Lol, there isn't much smart going on in either the TV or the book story lines. It's a theme really, people do spectacularly stupid things, especially when they think they're being clever or doing the right thing. Quentyn's story line was so wtf in that respect. As was Cersei's idea to reinstitute the Faith Militant in order to get rid of the daughter-in-law she was jealous of, Littlefinger not seeing that sweet little Sansa was going to pay him back, Ned Stark giving Cersei a chance ...

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15 hours ago, Jabul said:

First of all, ravens people, ravens. You know, those black birds that are used to send messages? People in Westeros have been using them for a very long time. It doesn't take much effort to send out ravens. It is not a distraction of any significance. Dany, Varys, and Tyrion have some knowledge of this, but it seems to slip their minds at critical times. There is no need to use dragons. You can send messages to lots of locations with much smaller flying animals. 

Read about ravens in ASOIAF wikia, part "About", second and third paragraph:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Raven

Also this threat is informative: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/129841-how-do-the-maesters-ravens-work/ Especially useful is post 8 by Ferocious Veldt Roarer.

Ravens can't just bring messages wherever, each raven can fly only towards specified destination. There are rare ravens that can fly towards two or even three castles, but usually to send raven to certain castle, you need to have raven from that castle. Also ravens are taken care of by maesters. Dragonstone has no maester, and thus they have no ravens. Probably Olenna and Sands brought with them several ravens to be able to communicate with Dany after their departure, and provide her with means of communication with other castles. But I doubt that they have many ravens at Dragonstone. I assume that they usually send messenger to White Harbour, and there use their ravens to deliver messages.

Also I think that only big houses like in King's Landing, Citadel and Castle Black have enough ravens to cover all 7K.

Ravens are not a commodity.

S7E1:

"MAN #3: My wife's just had our first baby.

ARYA: Boy or girl?

MAN #3: Oh, who knows? You think soldiers get ravens with news from home?"

15 hours ago, Jabul said:

If you wish to be a monarch, you act like one. Stannis Baratheon, for all his faults, understood this. You write to your subjects. You declare yourself the true ruler.

I assume that after Stannis sent all of his ravens all over Seven Kingdoms declaring himself new King, those that were not in agreement with him, has broken necks of his ravens.

12 hours ago, darmody said:

Cersei secretly organizing the Black Guard under house arrest without the show giving us a hint is too much. That's cheating, plain and simple.  

You know what they also haven't shown to us? - How Night's King was gathering his army, especially giants. But people don't complain about this.

Even though great black assembly wasn't shown or even hinted to viewers beforehand, it can't be crossed out as impossible. It was a surprise. It was intended to be one. And D&D succeeded in this. Though not all viewers appreciated it. Some people just don't like surprises -_-

12 hours ago, darmody said:

Then she's queen, because she's played by Lena Headey. 

:rolleyes:

12 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

but no, Euron didn't split his fleet, or at least, he didn't completely split it, as the Silence is seen in both the scene where he demolishes Yara's fleet and later when he's trapping the unsullied.

We don't know for sure whether Euron himself was at Casterly Rock, thus that ship may not be Silence. Maybe his people left at Iron Islands have build another flagship similar to Silence, to lead Western Coast Iron Fleet, while Euron's flagship Silence is leading Eastern Coast Iron Fleet.

Or Euron can teleport ^_^ According to GOT wikia in books "For as yet unclear reasons, Euron is also capturing priests from all of the world's religions and holding them prisoner aboard the Silence, torturing them. From a preview chapter from the sixth novel, Euron apparently attempts to use them all as human sacrifices in a mass ritual which will usher him as a dark messiah of sorts for whatever dark powers he may or may not be in league with."

Or maybe Euron is the greatest captain on the 14 seas. Maybe he has reasons to make this claim, maybe he is the best. Maybe he's the only person that wondered how far into the East coast river Wendwater goes, and when he sailed there, he discovered that over time that passed since old maps were made, river Wendwater has connected to river Blue Byrn, and this connection is safely hiden by Kingswood. Thus Euron can sail thru Westeros (from Blackwater Bay thru river Wendwater, Blue Byrn, and Mander to The Sunset Sea) instead of sailing around it. The way thru is 1,300 nautical miles shorter that the way around. With speed of 5 knots he can save up to 9 days.

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7 minutes ago, Megorova said:

We don't know for sure whether Euron himself was at Casterly Rock, thus that ship may not be Silence. Maybe his people left at Iron Islands have build another flagship similar to Silence, to lead Western Coast Iron Fleet, while Euron's flagship Silence is leading Eastern Coast Iron Fleet.

Were you watching the series blind or something? The Silence has an obvious design difference to the other Ironborn ships; you know, it's the ship with loads of loads of angular sails, much bigger than the other boats?

You know, this one?

(4:13 is the mark)

Come on, Megarova, you're starting to sound desperate.

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38 minutes ago, Megorova said:

You know what they also haven't shown to us? - How Night's King was gathering his army, especially giants. But people don't complain about this.

Even though great black assembly wasn't shown or even hinted to viewers beforehand, it can't be crossed out as impossible. It was a surprise. It was intended to be one. And D&D succeeded in this. Though not all viewers appreciated it. Some people just don't like surprises -_-

Oh, and this?

1: They've shown his gathering of forces several times. At the Fist of the First Men. At Hardhome. It's been sufficiently established that he's killing large populations and incorporating them into his army, establishing a precedent and showing that yes, he's actively gathering it.

and 2: CERSEI WAS UNDER HOUSE ARREST, and there was nothing, absolutely nothing on-screen to indicate that a black guard was being recruited, formed, etc. They showed Qyburn stealing the little birds, seeding the start of the wildfire plot, so it's not like they don't try to foreshadow these things.

Also, fuck off with the 'you just don't like surprises' bullshit. The amount of SHOCKING™ moments in the series that simply amount to 'stating something isn't going to happen, then making it happen' and things just flat out happening with as much reason as duck duck cheese wing dang pop lolrandom far outnumber the amount of surprises which, after a rewatch, make sense much later (and of those, most are in the first four seasons). That's the key to a good twist, not just being unexpected. No-one expects the cast to transform into snowmen of George Takei, but if it were to happen, it'd be a shitty twist.

You're honestly a smarmy git for someone defending a season of GoT that's involved a budget-breaking polar bear wight, the lines 'it's a foreign invasion' preceding lesbian sex, boatsex, the big gay wight hunt fellowship beyond the wall, teleporting fleets, teleporting ravens, and the list goes bloody on.

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3 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

I would never compare the military strength of Ancient Rome during Hannibals invasion or The British Empire during WW2 to Cersei in S7E7: Cersei's armies are battleworn and the Lannister forces have taken some massive casualties since the series started.

Also, the leaders of Rome and the British Empire where nowhere near as self-centered as Cersei: They wanted to continue protecting their territories and not just their capitals - Cersei on the other hand, would easily consolidate all of her strength to Kings Landing if she thought it would increase her chances of surviving. I really can't see her having armies on standby in other areas of Westeros if the threat of an invasion to Kings Landing is imminent. 

And no, I personally don't think that Cersei is as important as the show seems to depict. She is in a weak position and Team Dany could've (and should've) easily wiped her out, but they won't because of the writing reasons. 

Well I suppose we're at an impasse unless we have more information then. We do know that Dany does not apparently have the ability to call the banners in areas that she is supposedly controlling as her only armies seem to still be Dothraki and Unsullied. But the show has dropped the ball. In the books they'd show us who is running the areas that have lost their lords. Since we are shown no on screen evidence of Dany actually controlling any region other than Dragonstone, I resort to the default as Cersei. Again we have no idea if any major lords anywhere have bent the knee. Has she appointed wardens that are administering areas? Niether the Unsullied not the Dothraki are capable of anything like that and she seems quite short on administrators. If the Iron Throne does not still hold their allegiance, then who is running these areas? Or is every other lord effectively independent right now? That seems implausible. 

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13 hours ago, darmody said:

Cersei is their Queen since like yesterday

Her father was King's Hand for over 30 years, he was the one who really ruled in 7K, because Aerys was getting sicker and sicker with each passing year. Then Cersei was King's wife for 15-17 years. Then she was Regend of her son King Joffrey.

Lannister family ruled in Westeros for nearly 50 years, that's NOT since like yesterday.

9 hours ago, Zapho said:

Euron took a detour that lasted two weeks. Which means he was a week or so behind the Unsullied, maybe more, maybe less, but most likely not months. He did not attack the Unsullied at sea which means he either did not want to risk having to fight them or he did not manage to catch up with them. Both reasons are plausible imo. 

Anyway, both fleets sailed more or less the same route. We only need to assume teleporting if the Unsullied had much of a lead. But that's not the case imo.

Direct route thru Westeros from Wendwater river is more plausible than teleportation. And if he used this route, then even if he departed one week later than Unsullied, he could've arrived to Casterly Rock two days before them.

 

If 8,000 years prior beginning of events in ASOIAF people of Westeros were able to build The Wall 300 miles long, 700 feet high, and wide enough for a dozen mounted knights to ride abreast, then it's possible that Euron dug a naval channel 200 miles long, 100 feet wide, and 50 feet deep, from Wendwater to Blue Byrn. He also build two water dams to keep this channel empty, to prevent anyone else from using it. And he build outposts with gurds that will kill people wandering too far into Kingswood.

He was absent for 3 years, enough time for his people to dug a channel. And as long as this channel is kept in secret from other Westerosi, it could be used as a huge tactical advantage for Euron.

8 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

You've got to also remember Euron went back to KL to take part in the big gay parade taking Ellaria and Tyene to Cersei, then they'd have to go back out, past Dragonstone, and around the continent to CR.

Euron wasn't shown in Casterly Rock, so maybe he wasn't even there. Maybe his ship was, or maybe it was other flagship similar to Silence.

8 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

And still fails to explain how in the living hell Olenna got to Highgarden when the Sand Snakes couldn't get to Dorne.What route did Olenna take?

By land in her carriage, as usual?

When she was at Dragonstone, Randyll Tarly at the same day was at KL. He was planning to depart to Horn Hill next day. He rode on horseback, she sailed from Dragonstone to mainland, and then rode in her carriage. Thus he arrived home sooner that she is, because she also spent some time on getting to land, also carriage is slower than horserider. So he had at least 2-3 days to prepare his troops, before her return to Highgarden.

7 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

this level of honeypotting just shows that D & D don't give a flying fuck about plausibility

There's no honeyplotting at all. And nearly everything that D&D showed on screen was plausible (aside from supernatural elements like Dragons, direwolfes, and wights). This part about 1,000 ships build in six month IS plausible. Euron had enough time, enough people, and enough resources needed to build his fleet.

I gave you definite numbers from historical sources (aside from Bible).

There was a fleet over 1,000 ships big in 480 BC, in real world.

This Liberty ship (134.57 × 17.3 × 8.5 m) is similar in size to Noah's Ark (137 × 22.9 × 13.7 m). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_ship

It took 42 days to build ship like this. In 1943 when those ships were build by Bethlehem-Fairfield shipyard, there were employed 46,700 people.

Euron's ships are 4 times smaller, so it will take 10.5 days to build one, based on size. But this is also a ship of WWII, so it's much more complex than Euron's wooden ships. Also he had much more than 46,700 people working on his fleet. So one ship per 7 days build for Euron's fleet is reasonable time frame.

If 46,700 people can build Liberty ship in 42 days, then Euron's 1,5 millions people can build 1,000 wooden ships in 180 days.

7 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

You're forgetting that the Iron Islands would also need enough trees to rebuild the fleet as well

Cape of Eagles has big forest 500 miles long and 130 miles wide, that's 41,600,000 acres. The average density of trees in a forest is 53 trees per acre. Then in that forest there are  2,204,800,000 trees. In 18th century about 2000 trees were needed to build one warship. Thus to build their 1,000 ships they will need only 2 millions out of those 2 billions trees in Cape of Eagles.

It's located 290 nautical miles from Harlaw Iron Island. It will take only 2 days to sail there (with speed 5 knots). They made their new shipyrd there, and began making ships one week after Euron's coronation.

So trees they had enough. What else?

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3 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Her father was King's Hand for over 30 years, he was the one who really ruled in 7K, because Aerys was getting sicker and sicker with each passing year. Then Cersei was King's wife for 15-17 years. Then she was Regend of her son King Joffrey.

Lannister family ruled in Westeros for nearly 50 years, that's NOT since like yesterday.

Direct route thru Westeros from Wendwater river is more plausible than teleportation. And if he used this route, then even if he departed one week later than Unsullied, he could've arrived to Casterly Rock two days before them.

Euron wasn't shown in Casterly Rock, so maybe he wasn't even there. Maybe his ship was, or maybe it was other flagship similar to Silence.

By land in her carriage, as usual?

When she was at Dragonstone, Randyll Tarly at the same day was at KL. He was planning to depart to Horn Hill next day. He rode on horseback, she sailed from Dragonstone to mainland, and then rode in her carriage. Thus he arrived home sooner that she is, because she also spent some time on getting to land, also carriage is slower than horserider. So he had at least 2-3 days to prepare his troops, before her return to Highgarden.

There's no honeyplotting at all. And nearly everything that D&D showed on screen was plausible (aside from supernatural elements like Dragons, direwolfes, and wights). This part about 1,000 ships build in six month IS plausible. Euron had enough time, enough people, and enough resources needed to build his fleet.

I gave you definite numbers from historical sources (aside from Bible).

There was a fleet over 1,000 ships big in 480 BC, in real world.

This Liberty ship (134.57 × 17.3 × 8.5 m) is similar in size to Noah's Ark (137 × 22.9 × 13.7 m). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_ship

It took 42 days to build ship like this. In 1943 when those ships were build by Bethlehem-Fairfield shipyard, there were employed 46,700 people.

Euron's ships are 4 times smaller, so it will take 10.5 days to build one, based on size. But this is also a ship of WWII, so it's much more complex than Euron's wooden ships. Also he had much more than 46,700 people working on his fleet. So one ship per 7 days build for Euron's fleet is reasonable time frame.

If 46,700 people can build Liberty ship in 42 days, then Euron's 1,5 millions people can build 1,000 wooden ships in 180 days.

Cape of Eagles has big forest 500 miles long and 130 miles wide, that's 41,600,000 acres. The average density of trees in a forest is 53 trees per acre. Then in that forest there are  2,204,800,000 trees. In 18th century about 2000 trees were needed to build one warship. Thus to build their 1,000 ships they will need only 2 millions out of those 2 billions trees in Cape of Eagles.

It's located 290 nautical miles from Harlaw Iron Island. It will take only 2 days to sail there (with speed 5 knots). They made their new shipyrd there, and began making ships one week after Euron's coronation.

So trees they had enough. What else?

Yet they showed or implied none of this. You're literally making all this shit up on D & D's behalf because they're too lazy. Look at this. It's pathetic. You're trying so damn hard to make excuses for this cynical trainwreck of a show. It's actually kind of depressing.

Also, you seriously think Olenna would go via land, past King's Landing? Maybe you don't care about plausibility, if you honestly think Cersei wasn't, after getting the Tarlys on her side, not checking for Olenna wherever she could. If Euron was so quick to seek out and find the Sand Sneks, then Olenna in her personal carriage going through Cersei's own fucking territory would be a sinch.

As for the Cape of Eagles... it's not been established on the fucking show! None of the places the Ironborn get their trees have been established! The idea the Iron Islanders even set up a fucking shipyyard hasn't been established because, guess what? D & D don't establish shit on the show. They just make shit appear out of nowhere because the moronic viewers don't care, and the smarter-but-emotionally-pot-committed viewers like you will make any excuse necessary.

Look at you, you're fighting to your dying breath to defend a show that tried to make 'you want a good girl, but you need a bad pussy' sound seductive. God, that's kind of miraculous. D & D have successfully instilled a cult-like devotion in people that's convinced them that they're flawless, talented writers.

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2 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Yet they showed or implied none of this. You're literally making all this shit up on D & D's behalf because they're too lazy. Look at this. It's pathetic. You're trying so damn hard to make excuses for this cynical trainwreck of a show. It's actually kind of depressing.

Also, you seriously think Olenna would go via land, past King's Landing? Maybe you don't care about plausibility, if you honestly think Cersei wasn't, after getting the Tarlys on her side, not checking for Olenna wherever she could. If Euron was so quick to seek out and find the Sand Sneks, then Olenna in her personal carriage going through Cersei's own fucking territory would be a sinch.

As for the Cape of Eagles... it's not been established on the fucking show! None of the places the Ironborn get their trees have been established! The idea the Iron Islanders even set up a fucking shipyyard hasn't been established because, guess what? D & D don't establish shit on the show. They just make shit appear out of nowhere because the moronic viewers don't care, and the smarter-but-emotionally-pot-committed viewers like you will make any excuse necessary.

Look at you, you're fighting to your dying breath to defend a show that tried to make 'you want a good girl, but you need a bad pussy' sound seductive. God, that's kind of miraculous. D & D have successfully instilled a cult-like devotion in people that's convinced them that they're flawless, talented writers.

I am as skeptical as anyone regarding building a 1000 ships that quickly. 

But i don't think they need to establish shit about their being enough trees or these people have a ship yard. Some things have to be able to be left unsaid.

This is a maritime naval culture whose whole way of life is built around the sea. I don't think you have to establish how exactly and where they are building ships. 

Now how they build 1000 ships in half a year... yea you should ensure that is possible. 

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17 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

I am as skeptical as anyone regarding building a 1000 ships that quickly. 

But i don't think they need to establish shit about their being enough trees or these people have a ship yard. Some things have to be able to be left unsaid.

This is a maritime naval culture whose whole way of life is built around the sea. I don't think you have to establish how exactly and where they are building ships. 

Now how they build 1000 ships in half a year... yea you should ensure that is possible. 

Oh, agreed, you don't need to establish shit all the time. As you pointed out, the ironborn's culture is around reaving, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Or any evidence at all.

1000 ships in six months may be possible, but you'd best show them working every last hour making fucking boats and barely stopping to eat and drink, because it beggars belief otherwise.

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5 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Oh, agreed, you don't need to establish shit all the time. As you pointed out, the ironborn's culture is around reaving, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Or any evidence at all.

1000 ships in six months may be possible, but you'd best show them working every last hour making fucking boats and barely stopping to eat and drink, because it beggars belief otherwise.

100% agreed. 

The line should have been "get me 1000 ships and I will bring you the world" instead of "build me 1000 ships"

Cause then it could be both build and steal ships. 

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