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Tyrion1991

(Spoilers) - The War makes no sense

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7 hours ago, jcmontea said:

The only thing missing in your analysis for me to roll with it is data around how long it took to build ships in medivel Europe.

"Anne McCants, citing Friel, Ian. The Good Ship. John Hopkins University Press, Maryland: 1995. VM17.F75, wrote:

A ship in 1378 built for the crown had cost 142 pounds and was done in 40 days.
The time it took to make different ships changed very strongly by size. A 120 oar ship was made in 45 weeks, and a 26 oar ship was made in five. Some of this time may have gone into felling and transport of timber."

 

"If ancient sources can be believed, the Romans were able to build galleys, start to finish, in ~30 days. However, they had very skilled engineers that could direct legions of soldiers to gather and transport supplies and complete the construction.

It is surmised that middles ages ship wrights could build a small cog in as little as 20 days. Larger ships could be complete in 40 to 60 days. The number of workers will impact the length of time required to build the ship."

 

If certain work can be done by 1 person is span of 30 days, then that same amount of work can be done by 3 people in span of 10 days, and if on this project willl be working 1 million people, then they will finish it in less than 3 seconds.

 

Euron had 15,000-1,500,000 people, and he needed to build 1,000 ships. So each ship was made by 15-1,500 people. How much time it will take 15 people to build one medieval ship? Probably up to 3-6 month. Thought 1,500 people can build it in one hour or even less, just put it together like Lego toy.

It all depends on number of people. And Euron had more than enough people to complete this task in short time frame.

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49 minutes ago, Megorova said:

snip

Shipbuilding still requires people with the relevant know how and experience, so the question we should be asking ourselves is how many on the Iron Islands are actually capable of carrying out this task? 

I don't know the answer to that, but what I can tell you, is that if the Iron Born are capable of producing 1000 ships in 6 months, that implies that they must be producing a significant number of ships each year - probably well over a thousand - because otherwise there would be little justification to maintain such a huge shipbuilding capacity. And considering that a warship is expected to last several years at least, and that the Iron Born certainly aren't the only ones producing ships in Westeros (or the rest of Planetos), I have a really, really hard time believing that this is the case.

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What all this boils down to is D&D no longer care about logic or narrative, just cool, memorable moments that they will contort the plot in whatever why needed to facilitate these scenes happening.

Also, they have an absurd love for the Cersei actor. 

As to the ironborn, can we just acknowledge Euron's big plan was "let's build more ships!"? Like, genius, I can't believe no one in the iron islands, which are pretty much entirely sustained by raiding in ships, thought to build them. Like, what were they doing before Euron had this brilliant idea? Sitting around giving speeches about how manly they are?

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7 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Edit: I did some searching, and it took roughly 15 months for the shipwrights to build a single Caravel in the 15th and 16th century. Yeah there's no chance in hell that a team of ironborn would build a ship in 9 days. :rolleyes:

And were there working 100,000-1,500,000 people? I don't think so. Also those people weren't as motivated, or as skilled as ironborn.

According to my previous calculation each person in their 50 men crew will need to build only 1/50 or 2% of each ship in span of 9 days, and in one day to make only 1/450 or 0,22% of one ship. You think that it's impossible for highly motivated and skilled people to reach their quota of 1/450 part of ship per day?

Those Caravel builders from your example are lazy bugs, because I found info in other sources, according to which even ancient ships were build in 30-60 days.

And do you realise that population of Iron Islands is between 100,000 and up to 1,500,000 people? If 1,000 ships will be devided between them, then in case with 100,000 each person will have to build only 1% of 1 ship, and in case with 1,500,000 each person will have to build only 0,07% of 1 ship?

8 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

And as has already been pointed out, Euron's ship is seen both on the attack on Yaras fleet and later on the attack of the Unsullied-transports.

Doesn't mean that Euron was also there. Also it is possible that that is different ship build by ironborn, Silence II. And aside from teleportation there is another option how Euron can travel in Westeros area faster than anyone else - naval channel that he dug in Kingswoods to connect river Wendwater and river Blue Byrn. Why not?

8 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Do you realize the amount of wood and cloth that would be needed for 1000 ships?

According to sources that I found, 2,000 trees to build one medieval ship. And in just two days of sail from Iron Islands they have forest with over 2 billion trees, out of which they need only 2 millions to build 1,000 ships.

And if they will use all of those trees they can build 2000 Iron Fleets, each of them with 1000 ships.

Out of 7 big forests of Westeros the biggest is Wolfswood near Winterfell, second is The Hounted Forest beyond The Wall, third is Kingswood near King's Landing, fourth is the nameless forest that streches from Cape of Eagles towards Saltspear, forest around Karhold is as big, sixth is Rainwood near Storm's End, and seventh is nameless forest near Lannisport.

And even smallest out of this seven has 582 million trees. Trees from Bear Island alone would be enought to build 75 Iron Fleets, with 75,000 ships.

 Cloth for sail and ropes in ancient and medieval times (and even now) were made from flax (linen) and hemp (cannabis/pot/weed). And those plants are easy to make into rought cloth convinient for making sails, and they grow very fast.

"Flax is harvested for fiber production after about 100 days.  Flax is often found growing just above the waterline in cranberry bogs".

So ironborn could've harvested wild flax, or they even had enough time to sow a new batch, harvest it 100  days later, then between 2 weeks to 2 months for retting.

"Pond retting is the fastest. It consists of placing the flax in a pool of water which will not evaporate. It generally takes place in a shallow pool which will warm up dramatically in the sun; the process may take from a few days to a few weeks".

Then it needs breaking, scutching and heckling, and afterwards they will have flax fibers. Yarn is spoon from those fibers. Then from yarn linen cloth is weaven.

114 days until breaking. Then they have 66 more days to make enought sails for 1,000 ships. And if that work will be done by at least 500,000 of Iron Islands' population (1/3 females), then each 500 people will have to make sails for only 1 ship.

But if they already have flax yarn, and based on the fact that they are naval nation, they do have lots of it, then they won't need to plant new seeds or gather any harvests, so their females will have 6 months to weave cloth and make sails for 1,000 ships. And it requires much less than 6 months for 500 females to make sails for ONE ship.

I would say that two months will be enough for females from one household to finish one sail. For example in Iron Islands there are 1,500,000 : 10 = 150,000 households. In 1/3 of them females know how to make yarn and weave cloth. So that's 50,000 households. So after two months of work they will have 50,000 sails.
Or if Iron Islands population is only 100,000 people, then by the same scheme they will have over 3,000 sails ready after two months of work.

 

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6 hours ago, Megorova said:

Read about ravens in ASOIAF wikia, part "About", second and third paragraph:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Raven

Also this threat is informative: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/129841-how-do-the-maesters-ravens-work/ Especially useful is post 8 by Ferocious Veldt Roarer.

1. Ravens can't just bring messages wherever, each raven can fly only towards specified destination. There are rare ravens that can fly towards two or even three castles, but usually to send raven to certain castle, you need to have raven from that castle. Also ravens are taken care of by maesters. Dragonstone has no maester, and thus they have no ravens. Probably Olenna and Sands brought with them several ravens to be able to communicate with Dany after their departure, and provide her with means of communication with other castles. But I doubt that they have many ravens at Dragonstone. I assume that they usually send messenger to White Harbour, and there use their ravens to deliver messages.

Also I think that only big houses like in King's Landing, Citadel and Castle Black have enough ravens to cover all 7K.

Ravens are not a commodity.

S7E1:

"MAN #3: My wife's just had our first baby.

ARYA: Boy or girl?

MAN #3: Oh, who knows? You think soldiers get ravens with news from home?"

2. I assume that after Stannis sent all of his ravens all over Seven Kingdoms declaring himself new King, those that were not in agreement with him, has broken necks of his ravens.

...

You raise a worthwhile technical point, but that's the extent of it. If Daenerys wants to be queen, and if her advisers wish her to be queen, then they should be able to get around the problem. Indeed, the show indicates that they have already solved the technical prob. 

1. It's not clear that Olenna and the Sand Snakes cannot bring ravens to Dragonstone which can fly to castles other than those in their lands. Certainly, Dany & co can give messages to the Dorne and Reach people. These messages can then be sent from Dorne and Highgarden. Also, the dragon queen can use the route through White Harbor that you mention. The lack of ravens that go to places other than the two kingdoms and the lack of a maester don't seem to be problems in "Stormborn." In that episode, the red woman tells Dany to communicate with Jon. Then--

DAENERYS: Very well. Send a raven north. Tell Jon Snow that his Queen invites him to come to Drangonstone...and bend the knee.

No one says that there will be any difficulty with this. Then, in the next scene, we see Jon, Sansa and Davos reading the letter from Dragonstone. 

2. You can assume that the necks of the ravens were broken. That doesn't prove their necks were broken.

The central point, however, is not about ravens. Riders can be used instead. The main thing is that a monarch communicates with his or her kingdom. He or she doesn't just talk to a few houses or kingdoms that have good armies. That is what Stannis did. That, according to the back story in The World of Ice & Fire, is what Aegon did:

"On the seventh day, a cloud of ravens burst from the towers of Dragonstone to bring  Aegon's word to the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros. To the seven kings they flew, to  the Citadel of Oldtown, to lords both great and small."

It is flat out ridiculous that Tyrion the Formerly Intelligent needs the recommendation of a red priestess before he tries to communicate with places like Winterfell. I don't care if Flash Gordon or Ming the Fucking Merciless is in charge of the North. You send a message to Winterfell. And you send messages to lots of other places. You state your case. You show that Cersei has no legitimacy. You say that all true leaders will swear their allegiance to you. 

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2 hours ago, Megorova said:

Also those people weren't as motivated, or as skilled as ironborn.

This sums up your post; you assume too much.

You can't have all the iron islanders work on bots for 6 months, then have half of them (women) make sails for 2 months (while also apparently still working on boats to fit the timeframe), while also giving them time to sail over to the mainland and cut down two million trees (your own math). I'm not even gonna continue this discussion because thats how silly I find it to be. I commend your tenacity for defending the biggest plothole of season 7, but in the real world, what the ironborn achieved is impossible.

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19 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

This sums up your post; you assume too much.

You can't have all the iron islanders work on bots for 6 months, then have half of them (women) make sails for 2 months (while also apparently still working on boats to fit the timeframe), while also giving them time to sail over to the mainland and cut down two million trees (your own math). I'm not even gonna continue this discussion because thats how silly I find it to be. I commend your tenacity for defending the biggest plothole of season 7, but in the real world, what the ironborn achieved is impossible.

It was the drowned god. He barfed up all the ships from beneath the sea. 

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6 hours ago, Megorova said:

Her father was King's Hand for over 30 years, he was the one who really ruled in 7K, because Aerys was getting sicker and sicker with each passing year. Then Cersei was King's wife for 15-17 years. Then she was Regend of her son King Joffrey.

Lannister family ruled in Westeros for nearly 50 years, that's NOT since like yesterday.

Tywin merely "ruled" as an administrator, or gray eminence, though one who was known to the court and maybe the public (I'm not sure.) He was not the sovereign. You can't pass bureaucratic power down through the generations like that. He didn't even rule like people said Duck Cheney ruled over Bush the Younger. Though Cheney came from the administrative side (former secretary of defense), he was also a politician and was elected alongside Bush. 

Tywin was in the "game of thrones," but for his family, not himself. He wasn't in Westeros' version of politics except as Lord of Casterly Rock. Not as Hand. He picked up the political mantle when he sacked King's Landing and married his daughter to Robert. Then his double grandson got to be king.

He couldn't be king himself, unless he Roberted himself onto the throne. When people say he ruled as Hand they're speaking figuratively. Aerys demonstrated his superiority and rulership when he ordered Tywin's head be brought to him. Which didn't happen, but not because Jaime thought Tywin was the real ruler. It was because Jaime stabbed him in the back for being a crazy a-hole. For which Jaime earned a life lived in obloquy. 

If Tywin ruled for 30 years, I suppose Jon Arryn was king for 20, or however long Bobby B. was pretending to be king. Then Ned Stark, Tyrion, and Kevan had their stints. So many kings!

 

As for Cersei's queendom, she was indeed queen consort to Bobby B., queen regent for Joffrey (and Tommen? I can't remember), and briefly queen mother. But there's no reason for her to be queen regnent. One doesn't follow from the other. For one thing, Jaime supersedes her. He's not in the Kingsguard anymore, is heir to Casterly Rock (can't be anyone else we know of, anyway; Cersei's sons, Kevan, and Lancel are dead; Tyrion is a fugitive with a death sentence hanging over his head), and was Tommen's closest male relative (father-uncle). Plus, he was the one with the army at King's Landing after the poop hit the fan. 

But really they should go down the Baratheon line. There's gotta be someone still alive on that family tree. For, despite your assertion that the Lammisters have ruled for 50 years, it's actually the Baratheon claim that's been recognized since Aerys died. Tywin went back to the Rock when Bobby B. ascended, and all Lannisters did before Cersei assassinated him was birth bastards and stand around as glorified bodyguards.

Granted, she undermined Bobby and ensured Double-Lannister lads ruled for a short while. But whatever legitimacy they possessed came from the misperception that they were Baratheons. (Oh, and Tywin's facility with alliance-building and murder.) Those who knew better played Let's Pretend. 

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21 minutes ago, jcmontea said:

It was the drowned god. He barfed up all the ships from beneath the sea. 

Ironically, this is more plausible than Euron & Co building 1000 ships in 6 months.

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2 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

This sums up your post; you assume too much.

You can't have all the iron islanders work on bots for 6 months, then have half of them (women) make sails for 2 months (while also apparently still working on boats to fit the timeframe), while also giving them time to sail over to the mainland and cut down two million trees (your own math). I'm not even gonna continue this discussion because thats how silly I find it to be. I commend your tenacity for defending the biggest plothole of season 7, but in the real world, what the ironborn achieved is impossible.

I'd argue the biggest plothole for Season 7 was the teleporting supersonic ravens/dragons and Gendry Bolt, but yeah, Megarova's tenacity's something else, ain't it?

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Nah man. It's all too easy. You just go the Pyke hardware shop and buy 1000 starter kits for homemade longships. This includes all tools, all nails and all the rigging material. And a 24h smithing service for repairs and restocking is included. Hemp and Iron can be ordered from Summer Islands Delivery Service SIDS Ltd.. Easy. Oh wait, the starter kit is only for longboats and not longships. Bugger. But 1000 ships it is.

   

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3 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

I'd argue the biggest plothole for Season 7 was the teleporting supersonic ravens/dragons and Gendry Bolt, but yeah, Megarova's tenacity's something else, ain't it?

I can at least (try) to rationalize that even if they really should've explained it better.
It's possible that they where so close to the wall that Gendry could run back in X amount of hours, and just because we only saw 1 night pass doesn't mean that only 1 night passed; if they spent 4-5 days on that isle - It takes much longer than 1 day for a lake to refreeze to the point that it would be able to carry the weigh of that many humans - then the timeframe might add up.

But yeah... Euron rolling up with a 1000 ships by S7E1? You have to look into the realms of gods, magic and deus ex machinas in order to explain that. :P

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56 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

I can at least (try) to rationalize that even if they really should've explained it better.
It's possible that they where so close to the wall that Gendry could run back in X amount of hours, and just because we only saw 1 night pass doesn't mean that only 1 night passed; if they spent 4-5 days on that isle - It takes much longer than 1 day for a lake to refreeze to the point that it would be able to carry the weigh of that many humans - then the timeframe might add up.

But yeah... Euron rolling up with a 1000 ships by S7E1? You have to look into the realms of gods, magic and deus ex machinas in order to explain that. :P

The lake refreezing over ages thing doesn't quite add up for one reason: The White Walkers have ice magic. They make their weapons out of it, bring the cold with them... surely the solution to the broken lake is 'hold my beer, wights' *freezes* 'Done'.

But even if it isn't the case, it was one hell of a stretch of plausibility, though you're right in that at least they showed Thoros dying in his sleep, establishing some kind of time skip.

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Just now, Beardy the Wildling said:

The lake refreezing thing doesn't quite add up for one reason: The White Walkers have ice magic. They make their weapons out of it, bring the cold with them... surely the solution to the broken lake is 'hold my beer, wights' *freezes* 'Done'.

Well, possibly. :)
They don't seem to be in a rush though, and if there's any truth behind the "It was a trap from the NK"-theory it makes sense that they would wait until Daenerys showed up anyway, so they could let the lake refreeze on it's own.

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13 minutes ago, MinscS2 said:

Well, possibly. :)
They don't seem to be in a rush though, and if there's any truth behind the "It was a trap from the NK"-theory it makes sense that they would wait until Daenerys showed up anyway, so they could let the lake refreeze on it's own.

Yeah, the 'Night King trap' honeypot actually makes sense. I hope that it is the case, because angry as I am at D & D for being cynical hacks, there's a little part of me that wants the show to be decent.

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I find it funny because of all the plot naval bullshit this season has produced, the Silence is the one thing I can explain:

- Euron leaves King's Landing to get Cersei a gift. (He passes Dragonstone for the first time)

- He then intercept the fleet from Dragonstone to Sunspear (Dorne in the show). Of course some people argue there are sealines as if wind and weather does not exists and as if the Ironborn themself would not avoid the Coast. This is somehow a joke as Ironborn vs Ironborn fleet should not have a position advantage but whatever. He knows the position for one reason and one reason only: He has a spy on board or the naval commander intentionally moves the fleet to a certain spot to find. 

- And of course, because one Ironborn fleet is faster as another, he can assault the one ship he has to assault. As if combat formation is a thing. 

- For some reason nobody understands why the Unsullied use another ship travel ticket than Yara's ironborn fleet. This is the case because later we get the report that Yara's fleet has been destroyed. And of course only one ship survives. Because again Ironborn ships are faster than Ironborn ships. Ths Unsullied most likely use another ship class and therefore have another route (hint hint, Dromons are not very stable at high sea, hint, hint)

- Euron then orders his fleet including the Silence to pursuit the Dromon fleet. How he knows of the second fleet I don't know. It would be more logical for the remainder of his fleet to transport the Lannister forces or return to their one and only base of operation: the Iron Isles. He himself leaves his fleet and takes the land route to KL through the Stormlands.

- As I mentioned earlier the first thing I would have done ,like asap yesterday, would be to block the Blackwater from the south. Again this would have prevented Euron to reach KL but whatever. (hint hint, it would solve a raven problem if it ever existed, hint hint)

- So Euron marches to KL through the Kingswood and the Silence is off. And most likely reaches the Iron Isles before the Dromon fleet because the Dromon fleet has to navigate closer to the coast after the Arbor while Ironborn ships can navigate the high sea. 

- Of course both of Dany's fleets are not in the mood to do any raven communication what so ever. It must be incredible hard to send from any friendly position on their route in the Reach or in Dorne or for Dany to send commands ahead of the fleet to a location she knows the fleet will arrive at. Like .... Oldtown. Not that anything raven related is in Oldtown. Nononononono.

- Then the Dromon fleet arrives at Casterly Rock and all the commander of CR has to do is sending a raven at first sighting to Pyke about the fleet and bang. The Iron Fleet leaves Pyke to intercept. Wohooooo.

 

- So the Silence and the teleporting is explained, Euron simply takes the land route, the Iron Fleet intercepts from the Iron Isles by raven and done. And since now all is explained I want to highlight once more the absurd incompetence in team Dany. Because if you have a lack of ravens getting ravens from Driftmark or literally anywhere else would be impossible. I don't give a shit anymore. 

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7 hours ago, MinscS2 said:

Ironically, this is more plausible than Euron & Co building 1000 ships in 6 months.

Lol. 100% more plausible. 

The only other assumption we could play with to make sense of it than what i suspect is the answer (lets roll with it and hope people don't think too hard) is:

- its more than 6 months. Basically enough time had to have passed for Yara to sail from the iron islands to the bay of dragons. For Varys to have sailed from the bay of dragons to Dorne. Sailed back to the bay of dragons. Then back again. Maybe that is more than 6 months. 

- its not actually 1000 ships. Euron is not a literal guy who is all about precision and he is just being figurative and  build me a 1000 ships just means build me a lot of damn ships and i have 1000 ships just means i have a lot of damm ships. There could be some prescedent for this. Some contemporary sources claim the Persian navy in ancient times was ~1200 ships. Yet a lot of modern scholars are super skeptical and think its more in the 300-600 range (i forget the exact number). Also, there are people who just talk and chuck numbers out of their ass and if there is anyone on the show who looks like the type its euron greyjoy. 

EDIT: if the second point is true this just is another indication that Euron is effectively the Donald Trump of Westeros. The Donald mentions numbers when he talks and makes points in a much more figurative way than literal. 

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10 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

I find it funny because of all the plot naval bullshit this season has produced, the Silence is the one thing I can explain:

- Euron leaves King's Landing to get Cersei a gift. (He passes Dragonstone for the first time)

- He then intercept the fleet from Dragonstone to Sunspear (Dorne in the show). Of course some people argue there are sealines as if wind and weather does not exists and as if the Ironborn themself would not avoid the Coast. This is somehow a joke as Ironborn vs Ironborn fleet should not have a position advantage but whatever. He knows the position for one reason and one reason only: He has a spy on board or the naval commander intentionally moves the fleet to a certain spot to find. 

- And of course, because one Ironborn fleet is faster as another, he can assault the one ship he has to assault. As if combat formation is a thing. 

- For some reason nobody understands why the Unsullied use another ship travel ticket than Yara's ironborn fleet. This is the case because later we get the report that Yara's fleet has been destroyed. And of course only one ship survives. Because again Ironborn ships are faster than Ironborn ships. Ths Unsullied most likely use another ship class and therefore have another route (hint hint, Dromons are not very stable at high sea, hint, hint)

- Euron then orders his fleet including the Silence to pursuit the Dromon fleet. How he knows of the second fleet I don't know. It would be more logical for the remainder of his fleet to transport the Lannister forces or return to their one and only base of operation: the Iron Isles. He himself leaves his fleet and takes the land route to KL through the Stormlands.

- As I mentioned earlier the first thing I would have done ,like asap yesterday, would be to block the Blackwater from the south. Again this would have prevented Euron to reach KL but whatever. (hint hint, it would solve a raven problem if it ever existed, hint hint)

- So Euron marches to KL through the Kingswood and the Silence is off. And most likely reaches the Iron Isles before the Dromon fleet because the Dromon fleet has to navigate closer to the coast after the Arbor while Ironborn ships can navigate the high sea. 

- Of course both of Dany's fleets are not in the mood to do any raven communication what so ever. It must be incredible hard to send from any friendly position on their route in the Reach or in Dorne or for Dany to send commands ahead of the fleet to a location she knows the fleet will arrive at. Like .... Oldtown. Not that anything raven related is in Oldtown. Nononononono.

- Then the Dromon fleet arrives at Casterly Rock and all the commander of CR has to do is sending a raven at first sighting to Pyke about the fleet and bang. The Iron Fleet leaves Pyke to intercept. Wohooooo.

 

- So the Silence and the teleporting is explained, Euron simply takes the land route, the Iron Fleet intercepts from the Iron Isles by raven and done. And since now all is explained I want to highlight once more the absurd incompetence in team Dany. Because if you have a lack of ravens getting ravens from Driftmark or literally anywhere else would be impossible. I don't give a shit anymore. 

Would also give him lots of time to have sex with Cersei conveniently enough

33 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Yeah, the 'Night King trap' honeypot actually makes sense. I hope that it is the case, because angry as I am at D & D for being cynical hacks, there's a little part of me that wants the show to be decent.

I am skpetical of the trap idea. At best he had a vision a dragon would come and was ready. I could see them going that route. But i think we should always look for the simplest answer and i wouldn't be surprised if there was no trap. It was just this guy has been around and alive for 8000 freaking years. When you have lived 8000 years waiting a day or two for a lake to freeze over is like a few minutes. Your just operating on a different time scale since time for you is WAY less valuable since your imortal. If they were operating with an actual sense of urgency they could have started chucking spears at those guys.

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18 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

Were you watching the series blind or something? The Silence has an obvious design difference to the other Ironborn ships; you know, it's the ship with loads of loads of angular sails, much bigger than the other boats?

You know, this one?

(4:13 is the mark)

Come on, Megarova, you're starting to sound desperate.

Have you read what I wrote?

You think it's impossible to build another ship the same as Silence?

Was there serial number writen on board of that ship? No.

Was there name of it writen on the side? No.

Was there Euron shown on board of that ship, jumping up and down on upper deck and waving his hand to Unsullied? No.

I saw that video. But are you 100% sure that THAT ship IS Silence? And not Silence II?

I'm just saying that it's possible that:

1. THAT ship is NOT Silence,

2. that ship IS Silence, but Euron isn't there,

3. that ship is Silence and Euron is also there, which doesn't mean that his presense there is impossible or involves teleportation, because there are other less supernatural possibilities how he can be there, and just a few days later back at King's Landing. And naval channel that leads thru Westeros is one of those possibilities. Another possibility is spy in Yara's camp, that informed Euron beforehand about all plans of Dany's fleet. So he was able to go to both locations, on the way to Dorne, and to Casterly Rock, even BEFORE Dany's fleet departed from Dragonstone, so he was able to prepare a trap for them.

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18 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

You're honestly a smarmy git for someone defending a season of GoT that's involved a budget-breaking polar bear wight, the lines 'it's a foreign invasion' preceding lesbian sex, boatsex, the big gay wight hunt fellowship beyond the wall, teleporting fleets, teleporting ravens, and the list goes bloody on.

If you don't like it so much, why are you even watching it? Just to criticize it after?

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and 2: CERSEI WAS UNDER HOUSE ARREST, and there was nothing, absolutely nothing on-screen to indicate that a black guard was being recruited, formed, etc. They showed Qyburn stealing the little birds, seeding the start of the wildfire plot, so it's not like they don't try to foreshadow these things.

There was indication of it shown on screen, you just missed it. Though not you alone, others too. I gave a hint where to look for this clue, but people missed it too.

Creep Squad wasn't limited to Cersei, Qyburn, the Mountain, and Birds. There WERE others. It wasn't directly shown on screen, but it was obvious from what WAS shown.

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