Casterly Rock Why?

[snow is the man]

On 12/7/2017 at 0:49 AM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

No, it's explicit in the books. Tywin planned for Tyrion to inherit Winterfell through his marriage to Sansa, and to convince Jaime to leave the Kingsguard and inherit Casterly Rock.

Yes but if he never quits the kings guard in the book there are still a ton of male lannister to take casterly rock. In the show it seems as if every lannister evaporates after season 3 or 4 to only tywin and his kids,kevan,and lancel. Thus in the show the situation is much more dire then in the books. That is what I am pointing out

[LordMiddleFinger]

The real question is: Why didn't Euron just wait for the unsullied to come out of the Castle and then slaughter them all. Jaime could've left an additional 2,000 Lannister men hidden on Euron's ships and Euron must have at least 5,000 Ironborn in his army. The Unsullied were already weakened as a result of their battle against the Lannister soldiers protecting CR. It would make sense for Jaime to want to get rid of the Unsullied in order to weaken the Mad Queen and her army and to send her a message. "Fuck with the Lannisters, just know that we'll fuck you back twice as hard." 

[PlayerUp.com]

To be honest, Tyrion has been terrible at leading:

- Season 2 he lost the war it was only Tywin that came through and saved them

- Season 3 he lost his place and was deranked

- Season 6 he triggered a war with the masters

- Season 7 he started and advised Jon to go beyond the wall to capture a wight and then lead Dorne, Tyrells, the Unsullied and others into traps. 

He has been a horrible hand of the queen. 

[hallam]

All off base. The original plan was for the unsullied to take Casterly Rock while the ships carried the Dornish forces and supplies round by sea. Tyrion did not know about the size of Euron's forces 

Holding the rock would have all but knocked Cersei out of the war. Which it has in effect until Euron returns. Jamie's attack on Highgarden cost Cersei her army.

[Michael Snyder]

1. What was Casterly Rock doing without a moat? Really? Unless you built Krak de Chevalier or Chateau Galliard, you put a moat around the wall. Some castles even had moats around the inner concentric walls.

2. Agree. Casterly Rock was the center of Lannister political power. It was a legitimate target when your plan was that part of your fleet would transport the "Unsullied" to Lanisport and part would pick up the Tyrell and Martell armies and bring them north to put King's Landing under siege, while the Dothraki moved overland, though from where? They didn't land 10-15,000 Dothraki on Dragonstone. Were they dropped off at Sunspear? Then why didn't they pick up the Dornish army then. Were they landed somewhere else along the south side of the Blackwater Bay? The thing is a medieval cog could carry around 100 men or thirty horses and they must have used around one hundred to carry the "Unsullied" to Lanisport, which would have taken, oh say 15-20 days from Sunspear at five-six knots without going ashore for food, water or fire wood. That left less than 900 to carry about 35,000 men with their horses, mules, oxen, wagons, carts, supplies, parts of siege engines, camp followers and baggage. The problem is that a feudal city had not only a Watch, but a militia, whether London, Paris or Milan. If a million people lived in King's Landing that means a militia of 100,000 and a mobile force (the London, Paris and Milanese militias engaged in campaigns away from their cities) of around 50,000. And don't put these militias down. The Swiss defeated Burgundian and Hapsburg armies, the Flemish defeated the French, the Milanese defeated the knights of the Holy Roman Emperor. Add in the resources of the Crown Lands and Cersei and Jaimie would have had a mobile force of at least 75,000 to defend King's Landing. And with Randle Tarley, Jaimie probably left a garrison of a couple thousand men at Casterly Rock and assaulted Highgarden with around 10-15,000 men, when the Reach could mobilize at least three times that, leaving garrisons in the Reach of 10-15,000 men while marching the other 20-30,000 men to Sunspear. There is much in GoT that doesn't make military sense, but it's great fantasy writing.

3. Tyrion was Master of Coin, he knew the Lannisters were broke and had been "mining" the government revenue through Littlefingers' loans from the Iron Bank.

4. If dragon fire is anything like napalm, napalm gets its oxygen for its combustion from the surrounding air. It sucks air out of adjacent and target structures, even when underground. There would also be any amount of flammable materiel within a castle, even one hewed from the Rock.  Using an army to besiege and contain Casterly Rock and a navy to blockade Lanisport and constant attacks by dragons to keep the defenders pinned into their underground fortifications, a besieging army could slowly clear parts of the castle while starving out the rest.

5. The TV show has compressed time in its episodes. The time line could be like this. Euron has his fleet in Blackwater Bay. About the same time, Yara dropped off the Dothraki somewhere along the south shore, Yara joins her fleet after consulting with Danerys at Dragonstone on later on Day 2 and departs for Sunspear. She is proceeded by the ships with the "Unsullied". Late that night on day 2 or 3, Euron attacks the fleet under Yara and destroys it. The battle damages his fleet sufficiently that he has to pause to repair his ships. This gives Grey Worm a further head start of a couple days. 15 days later, Grey Worm lands the Unsullied near Lanisport, encircles Casterly Rock and begins his assault a day later. This gives Euron time to catch up with the fleet that carried the Unsullied, about one hundred ships and destroy them. So no mass transporter, simply story telling alternating times and locations without sufficient explanation of what's going on.

[dsjj251]

Book + Show logic. 

 

Jon controls The Vale, The North, and possibly the Riverlands. 

Dany controls Dorne, The Reach and the islands off the Crownlands and what ever land area on the mainland of the Crownlands where she landed her Dothraki. 

The Stormlands are not governed or governed by an off screen entity. 

That means Cersei only has true control over the Westerlands and nominal control of the Crownlands. Taking Casterly Rock pretty much means Cersei has been completely defeated other than holding Kings landing itself. 

In fact, Tyrion succeeds in doing this by the next episode after Dany destroys the Lannister host on its way to Kings Landing and all of the survivors bend the knee to her. 

[Hodor's Aunt]

On 9/13/2017 at 4:53 PM, saravs said:

I was rewatching the old episodes and in one of them Tywin and Cersei are talking about how they need the help of the Tyrell's as there has been no gold being produced for several years from Casterly Rock. With that being the case way back then, why did Tyrion feel the need to attack a place that had nothing but sentimental value? Its no longer the seat of the lannister's power if they do not produce any gold from there. I am sure the Iron Bank also knew that there was no gold to be had from that place.

The Casterly rock attack made no sense. 
Thanks,

saravs

The Lannister armies are still the backbone of Cersai's power. Those armies are mainly mustered in the Westerlands, their loyal commanders come from there and I guess they will be refreshed there. Taking their base away will weaken their position not immiedatly but on the long run it definitly will.

+gold is not everything. Together with Dorne and Highgarden the Westerlands have been relatively uneffected by the war. One can plunder plenty of food there. Daeny will need lots of food for the winter. Taking the Lannister stocks away is a good idea. 

The last season of GoT didn't make any sense at all. But that detail is rather good to explain.